SketchUp question - moving things

[andrew whicker]

I'm about to pull my hair out.

Why is it so *&%@#$ difficult to move something? All I want to do is line up thing A to line B. I highlight all the parts on thing A. type 'm'. Click on thing A and when I go to move thing A, line B moves with it!! Who decided that was a good idea?

Step 1: Hey, let's align this table leg with this nifty line that I drew
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Step 2: Pull hair out.

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[Jerry Miner]

If you make "thing A" a Component, it won't be "attached" to the other geometry-- and line B won't move when you move thing A.

[andrew whicker]

Gotcha. What I did was 1) delete the line. 2) move the leg far away 3) re-drew the line. 4) moved the leg until it snapped to the line.

[Jerry Miner]

OK. Hope you still had some hair left when you got it worked out!

[andrew whicker]

I think my experience with Autocad 2D is causing my head to explode when things like this happen in SketchUp. I just haven't spent a lot of time with this software and I'm used to being able to figure problems out quickly with Autocad. This software does something weird and I get stuck for far too long.

[Robert Hazelwood]

I had the same issue when trying to work with sketchup while being accustomed to autocad, where I often use lines to move and locate things. Sketchup basically combines the move and stretch commands, which is occasionally helpful but more often annoying.

The work-arounds I've found are: to make everything into groups/components wherever possible, which removes the association with adjacent lines/parts, and to use the copy function instead of move. If you copy something it will not drag adjacent lines/parts along with it. Then you can delete the original.

[John TenEyck]

The key to getting SketchUp to do what you want it to is to make every single unique part a separate, named Component. Once you grasp that idea you can move, copy, edit, etc. that component (and all duplicates).


John

[John K Jordan]

I think my experience with Autocad 2D is causing my head to explode when things like this happen in SketchUp. I just haven't spent a lot of time with this software and I'm used to being able to figure problems out quickly with Autocad. This software does something weird and I get stuck for far too long.

Same here, I used Autocad for years then 20 some years of 3D modeling and animation with 3D Studio Max (and I provided tech support for Autodesk/Discreet/Kinetix as well). Sketchup is useful but it's a sad joke compared to the professional software out there. Somethings are just pitiful, like the booleans, texturing (materials), lighting/shadows, and cameras. What is really frustrating is how it welds things together unless you take steps to keep them independent. I grant that the pro 3D software can cost a lot more, even compared to the pro Sketchup license. I'm sure the program features and workflow feel different for people who start with Sketchup and don't know any different.

The inference snaps in Sketchup are great as are it's features specific to architecture, but many of the other ways of working get you two steps forward and one back - IF you don't run into a brick wall! The sad thing is when I compare the newest versions to the first version I used when it was originally released by At Last, I see almost nothing improved in the software core. (I bought the pro version then, long before Google acquired the package) Most of the "advances" seem to be aimed toward import/export inter-connectivity with a few other things such as the Layout module. When I picked it up last year after maybe 15 years of absence the book I learned from then was still fine for learning and review - not enough had changed.

Don't get me wrong, we can do amazing things with Sketchup. We just can't do some of them easily or efficiently. I used it last to illustrate a document on a cheap sharpening system my good friend Josh Bowman put together, for example, things like this:

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JKJ

[Mark Bolton]

SU's inferencing can be a little fussy especially when your in 3D because it doesnt know if you picking a point in the distance or in the foreground. Hovering over an object helps the inferencing to understand what your trying to do. But in a funky situation with a lot going on in the background I find if your working in 3D that using move and the arrow keys to pick an axis make it easier. So you can move vertically down (up arrow) then over in green (left arrow) and back in red (right arrow).

Its either that or orbit your view to a point where you can focus on your targeted work area.

For me investing in a Logitech MX master mouse and programing the mouse to what commands I want makes SU modeling super fast. I have buttons programmed to orbit, move, group, component, and so on. I can move through a model very quickly making changes and alignments without ever touching the keyboard.

[Bob Lang]

The nature of things in SketchUp takes a bit of getting used to. It also isn't the easiest program to learn by just jumping in and playing around. Most of the people I teach (including myself) struggle with this stuff.

Everything is sticky and stretchy until you combine a bunch of things into a discrete group or component. Move in SketchUp also require a specific "from" point that is also used to let things go at the end of the move. Once you understand this, it's a great tool for design, planning and problem solving. It's really very powerful for most woodworking projects and when you want to change something the stretchiness is an advantage.

Bob Lang

[andrew whicker]

I'm starting to grasp the idea that you draw everything in 2D and then push / pull into 3D. The problem with this method is that you can't make a design mistake and easily recover. Nor is it really the way my brain thinks when I'm trying to do something complicated. This just may be a 3D thing in general. I don't have a lot of experience with any 3D software.

For example, I spent way too long figuring out how to make a bridle joint in a curve. When I wanted to correct something, it was really difficult. Sometimes, the software creates your 3D surface and sometimes it needs motivation.

I also have no idea why sometimes a line that I'm trying to draw will suddenly attach to a different line and won't 'get off' that other line.

[glenn bradley]

I'm starting to grasp the idea that you draw everything in 2D and then push / pull into 3D. The problem with this method is that you can't make a design mistake and easily recover. Nor is it really the way my brain thinks when I'm trying to do something complicated. This just may be a 3D thing in general. I don't have a lot of experience with any 3D software.

For example, I spent way too long figuring out how to make a bridle joint in a curve. When I wanted to correct something, it was really difficult. Sometimes, the software creates your 3D surface and sometimes it needs motivation.

I also have no idea why sometimes a line that I'm trying to draw will suddenly attach to a different line and won't 'get off' that other line.

The initial shift from 2D to drawing in an open 3D "space" can be odd. Most folks seem to hit an eventual "ah-ha" moment with SU when they stop thinking about drawing something on a surface and start visualizing the creation of shapes within a space.

[Justin Ludwig]

But in a funky situation with a lot going on in the background I find if your working in 3D that using move and the arrow keys to pick an axis make it easier. So you can move vertically down (up arrow) then over in green (left arrow) and back in red (right arrow).


For me investing in a Logitech MX master mouse and programing the mouse to what commands I want makes SU modeling super fast. I have buttons programmed to orbit, move, group, component, and so on. I can move through a model very quickly making changes and alignments without ever touching the keyboard.

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I also happen to have the same mouse. Navigation is super easy with the right tools.

[Dave Richards]

Gotcha. What I did was 1) delete the line. 2) move the leg far away 3) re-drew the line. 4) moved the leg until it snapped to the line.

A fundamental rule is to make components early and make them often.


The problem with this method is that you can't make a design mistake and easily recover.

With the right work flow it doesn't have to be difficult to recover from design mistakes and changes can be easily implemented. On many of the models I create, the client frequently requests changes to dimensions, shapes and other details. With proper construction of the model, though, it's not difficult to make those changes.


I also have no idea why sometimes a line that I'm trying to draw will suddenly attach to a different line and won't 'get off' that other line.

From what I see in your screen grabs, it looks like your template could use some improving and there's most likely some changes you could make in your workflow to help with that.

[Mark Bolton]

I'm starting to grasp the idea that you draw everything in 2D and then push / pull into 3D. The problem with this method is that you can't make a design mistake and easily recover. Nor is it really the way my brain thinks when I'm trying to do something complicated. This just may be a 3D thing in general. I don't have a lot of experience with any 3D software.

For example, I spent way too long figuring out how to make a bridle joint in a curve. When I wanted to correct something, it was really difficult. Sometimes, the software creates your 3D surface and sometimes it needs motivation.

I also have no idea why sometimes a line that I'm trying to draw will suddenly attach to a different line and won't 'get off' that other line.

I have been using SU nearly since its initial release. I am not in any way remotely close to Dave's level with SU, the guy should wear a pointy had with stars and moons on it because he is literally a wizard. One statement I have read from him over and over that is pretty much the way I think in SU that seems to cause a lot of stumbling in SU is to get your head around thinking in SU just like your working with wood. You can draw a board, component/group, draw a tool (router bit, saw blade shaper cutter), draw a path (this is you running the tool) and follow me/push pull, what ever. I have no idea how to accurately explain it but its like the "ah ha!" moment Glenn mentions.

It does get more difficult with curves and radius work but thinks like Boolean functions for me make that much easier.

I have a mind that could never be efficient in Autocad for some reason even with engineer friends spending a lot of time with me, but SU came naturally. Maybe try adjusting your thinking when your in SU like your in the shop. Make your board, machine your board, etc.. Just a guess.

[Bob Lang]

There are a few mental shifts that need to take place for SketchUp to stick in your brain. One is to shift from "making a drawing" to "building a model". Being trained and experienced in board drafting and AutoCAD, that was a big change for me. I got a lot better, a lot faster when I realized I should be pretending to build; make a part, copy the part a certain distance away and the make other parts in between. To keep control of stuff I make components as soon as a part exists in three dimensions. Navigation in the model is also critical; you need to see exactly what you're doing if you want an accurate model. The third thing is to avoid drawing anything from scratch if you have something similar that already exists; copying takes far less time. The nature of components in SketchUp allows you to do some amazing things. I usually make a complete model without any joinery then go back and add in the details. When the model is done, any information you want to see in 2D can be extracted from the 3D model.

Bob Lang