Costly Mistakes.

[Barry Block]

Hi all,

I thought I would share some misfortune with everyone. I know most people who come here are here to do research and avoid these types of mistakes. But then some people don't listen to what they don't want to hear. A fellow moved into a space below mine several month's ago. He owns a landscaping business and feels there is a need for window boxes made of Azeks on such a scale that he would invest in a shop to produce them.

First he bought a Swift 4x8 CNC machine. He asked myself and the owner of the building who has a large FL to help him unload it and get it into his shop. I asked which machine and has he given a lot of thought to moving it. "Oh it shouldn't be a problem its 4x8". Ah ok, I volunteered to help him out, now I know I at least will have entertainment for the day. Well needless to say it proved a nightmare. We finally managed to get it into the building but as I told him after seeing it there was no way it was going in his door with out a professional rigger. So the machine sat for 3 weeks till it was dismantled to a point where a professional rigger could move it the rest of the way. Cost of no proper planning 3-4 weeks of production. He is also lucky not to have damaged the machine in the move.

Second mistake was when we moved in the 5hp laguna pflex dust collector. It's in pieces but I'm familiar enough with the machine that when I asked him where it was going and the orientation I pointed out that would put the inlet facing the neighbors wall. "What"! Ah yea dude I hope you didn't pay the electrician to much to wire up your shop because it looks like your going to need to rearrange some things. 2 Weeks of delays.

Lastly I peaked in yesterday as I have still not see or heard him producing anything. It's been 4 month's since he rented the space and about 6 weeks since the initial move of cnc. I see he hung his ductwork off the electrical conduit for the lights and immediately tell myself that ain't going to fly with the owner. Then I notice the ductwork itself. It's a 15 foot run of 8 inch light gauge HD crap and it's totally collapsed! I wish I snapped a photo. I've read this could happen but I've never seen it. Didn't look like it stood a chance.

I've moved my shop twice and am in the process of setting up a basement shop in the house. I know mistakes get made and its inevitable that despite planning you end up relocating a machine or wishing it was somewhere else. But come on, I feel bad for him but I kind a don't.......

[Peter Christensen]

Sounds like he is a candidate for what should be the Darwin Business Award if such a thing were to exist. You might feel a little sorry for him but I feel for people that work for him.

[John C Cox]

Over 50% of my day job at work is budgeting and planning this sort of thing. You would be absolutely amazed - your average person in actual business misses the complexity and often completely misses the budget - often leaving out 75% of the money needed for the job...

And I ended up being the guy who does all this stuff at work because I generally don't often leave stuff like Rigging and Milwrights, Welding, pipe fitting, work platforms, ventilation, Electrical, the first round of spare parts, etc... It mystifies people that often the equipment itself makes up 20% of the actual project budget...

So yeah... I can sympathize... It's a common mistake.... But that doesn't mean it will magically be less expensive or time consuming....

Most likely - the fellow would not have bought the stuff if he actually had a good estimate of how much $$$$ it would actuslly cost him to get it going for real.... Happens all the time....

[Jim Becker]

It's perplexing to me that the dude bought a reasonably large CNC and didn't pre-plan for delivery and getting it in the shop. I have a machine that's half that size (4x4) on order and delivery and "get it in the shop" was a first priority, including arranging for a roll-back and establishing what that was going to cost--even before I said "yes" to the transaction. As to the rest of the install, such as the DC, that dude clearly is scatter-brained!

[Carlos Alvarez]

I work in technology, so I very often get to hear "all we need to do is" and "it can't be that hard/expensive right?" Basically if humans don't understand a thing, then they assume it's easy to do. But the obvious usually isn't.

Great example: I was recently working with a client discussing file storage limits. He actually said that we're making too much of a big deal about it and if it's a problem he'll go to Walmart and buy a USB drive to plug in. This is in regard to their mission-critical infrastructure which resides on highly engineered, resilient servers in multiple locations, replicating data. You don't actually HAVE any USB ports, and the storage systems cost an order of magnitude more than that Walmart home hard drive.

[Keith Outten]

Ignorance is the biggest threat to the American culture. Somewhere along the way we stopped educating the majority of our children, they all to often have learned absolutely no problem solving skills. Last but not least we have lost our respect for experience, a lifetime on the job means very little if you can be replaced by someone at half the salary.

The results of our failures are often "Costly Mistakes", I am so happy that I am no longer in the full time workforce.

[John K Jordan]

Ignorance is the biggest threat to the American culture. Somewhere along the way we stopped educating the majority of our children, they all to often have learned absolutely no problem solving skills.

I think the problem is many parents and other adults aren't willing to invest the time to teach the kids. One mission for our lives is to educate what children in our sphere of influence. I introduce kids to wood, welding, garden, even let them try running the backhoe. Lots of farm visits to learn about animal care for llamas, horses, peacocks, and honeybees. Safety around animals and machines. Periodically we have a chicken-killin' and send families with kids home with meat for the freezer. This answers the question "where are the nuggets on that chicken."

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BTW, kids LOVE to mess with bees! I have a couple of Wee Bee Suits.

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JKJ

[Mel Fulks]

Love those pics,John. That little girl locking eyes with the llama will never abuse an animal ,and the boy with the radishes will either learn to like 'em ....or find someone who does!. School is just part of the big picture.

[Andrew Seemann]

I wouldn't say that people today have any kind of monopoly on doing stupid things. That has been going on as long as humanity has been around. 25 years ago in a research lab I worked at, we spent $100,000 resurrecting a world war 2 battleship generator that had been reconfigured to use a 1960s vintage controller (which itself was probably left over from the space race) that was being used to drive a water tunnel. The reason we did this is because we couldn't afford to replace it with a modern (at the time) motor and controller. Oh, the cost of that modern motor and controller with installation, $40,000. And the reason the motor and drive train failed in the first place was that they did a half baked job of installing the whole thing 60 years ago.

So to recap, we spent $60,000 more to do a worse job than doing it right, none of which we would have needed have to do had they installed it right 60 years ago. It drove our foreman nuts.

[Keith Outten]

John,

Wait till the young ones in your pictures get their first computer and start playing games. Then when they get their first cell phones its over because their so distracted they can't concentrate on learning.

[John K Jordan]

John,

Wait till the young ones in your pictures get their first computer and start playing games. Then when they get their first cell phones its over because their so distracted they can't concentrate on learning.

Yes, that happens!

But there are a few other stories. One boy I've known since toddler was always interested in animals - he's 15 now, has no phone and doesn't want one, and works at my place twice a week to save money for starting his own sheep farm - bought the supplies, put up his own fencing, built a shelter. This boy RUNS between jobs here! Just last Friday the first lamb was born on his tiny sheep farm, he was so excited! I suspect things would be far different if his parents had a different outlook on life. That people like this do exist gives me hope for the future generations.

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I have a waiting list of kids wanting to learn how to weld and at least once a week a young person asks when they can they come and play on the lathe again.

My own grandson is far more interested in "screens" at 7 then when 5 or 6 so I think it's up to me to work harder to get him engaged. He would stay on the electronics all day if allowed but we set rules and stick to them. Once I get him started on something, whether feeding animals or working on wood or a carburetor he gets interested and forgets about the screens. Next week during spring break we plan to build a wooden toy puzzle from one of my books. This will be his first time using the scroll saw. And we'll look for creatures in drops of pond water - I have microscopes.

JKJ

[Chris Parks]

John,

Wait till the young ones in your pictures get their first computer and start playing games. Then when they get their first cell phones its over because their so distracted they can't concentrate on learning.

I had to laugh when our grand daughter walked up to our TV and tried to swipe the screen and got very indignant when it didn't work. TV's apparently don't work the same as a tablet.

[Steve Jenkins]

There is always time to do it over but never time to do it right

I wouldn't say that people today have any kind of monopoly on doing stupid things. That has been going on as long as humanity has been around. 25 years ago in a research lab I worked at, we spent $100,000 resurrecting a world war 2 battleship generator that had been reconfigured to use a 1960s vintage controller (which itself was probably left over from the space race) that was being used to drive a water tunnel. The reason we did this is because we couldn't afford to replace it with a modern (at the time) motor and controller. Oh, the cost of that modern motor and controller with installation, $40,000. And the reason the motor and drive train failed in the first place was that they did a half baked job of installing the whole thing 60 years ago.

So to recap, we spent $60,000 more to do a worse job than doing it right, none of which we would have needed have to do had they installed it right 60 years ago. It drove our foreman nuts.

[Martin Wasner]

Ignorance is the biggest threat to the American culture.


One of my buddies had a quote. "Ignorance should be painful. If it can't be painful, it should be expensive."


I don't know why, but I love that one. Pretty tough to get through any business with out some blood and money lost though. You just gather up the mistakes and file them away in the "I ain't doing that again" pile, and move on.

[Andrew Joiner]

I prefer making low cost mistakes! I tended to learn the hard way as I grew up and in my business. But man what valuable lessons. Now I'm retired and I can afford to make costly mistakes, but I all that wisdom I earned won't let me:)

[Barry Block]

I love all the quotes. This thread sure went in a direction I didn't see coming. LOL I actually had two paragraphs typed out discussing kids and electronics before I realized we are way off topic. I will say I have 3 kids below the age of 9.. They have tablets but if I gave any of them the choice between spending time with me in the shop or staring at a screen they would all work some wood with me! Hopefully that remains to be the case when they are teenagers. My wife and I try very hard to instill a good work ethic and keep their minds active outside of school.


Now back to the original post. Perhaps I should have mentioned that the guy is in his 60's and he is starting this business venture up for his 25 year old son. In any case it's not off to a good start. I am very curious to see the finished product. Azeks isn't exactly a rigid material and it will need to be structurally sound in order to hang off a wall and support the weight of wet soil and plants. I know he has put a lot of thought into things so far so I'm sure he's worked something out...

[Rollie Meyers]

"Good judgement comes from experience, experience comes from bad judgement". In my opinion, very true.