Routing Questtion

[Mark Singer]

I was putting the finish on the large doors that I have been making and noticed a small crack in the opaque glass. The stops are glued and nailed with brads. I was thinking to remove the stop with a rabbeting bit set just above the glass..about 1/16". Can I rout through the brads or will it ruin my carbide bit? The crack must have already been in the glass when it was installed....there are no brads in the area that may have caused it...A little more work and $$ ....thats the way it goes sometimes:confused:

[Jerry Clark]

Mark -sorry about the glass-- probably a small chip when they cut it-- beautiful doors. Yes you can rout out the brads-:D - and YES they will ruin your bit-:mad: - maybe easier and cheaper than ruining the door prying them out.:cool: Maybe use a nail set and drive then in rather than removing them.

[John Keane]

Mark, from observations of your contributions on this forum, you have considerably more experience than I. If you can cut aluminum with carbide blades, then if the brads are aluminum a carbide router bit should be able to cut through them without hurting the bit. Just a thought.

[Matt Meiser]

What about using some cheap bits that you don't care about ruining?

[Mike Cutler]

Mark.

You may want to try a 1/2" end mill, for a milling machine.
There are more flutes and there are not as deep a as a rabbett bit.They spiral and would shear as they cut. There would be no 90deg. angle to the brad from the cutter.
Slow the router down as much as possible.

I would worry about the rabbett bit catching and causing even more problems.

I have another milling machine bit that looks like the "checkered finish" on a torque wrench handle, but each of the checkers is actually a small cutter. It would work great for this. I'm sorry that I don't know the actual name of this milling machine bit. Hopefully one of the machinist types will know.

[Andrew Ault]

The carbide will chip. I have routed through steel nails a couple of times. For example, when repairing hardwood flooring.

You get a nice little spark when you go through the steel.

The router bit is suddenly transformed into a "rough conditions bit".

(Remember to route one-handed - that's how Sam does it!)

[Mark Singer]

Thank you for good suggestions.....I may try to rout them with a fence and end mill or older spiral bit.... I could try to drill them out and then rout. I have another idea....I have a pneumatic air die grinder I use for chairs and shapping wood...I can use a HSS burr and remove each one and the use the router and rabbet bit

[Gregg Mason]

You could also try cutting them out with a hand held rotory tool if you have one available.

[Mark Singer]

You could also try cutting them out with a hand held rotory tool if you have one available.

I have a Dremmel and also the die grnider with a veriety of cutters....that will be faster than the dremmel....

[Dev Emch]

This is a crazy idea.....

The brads are not heat treated metal but are rather soft. Also, a number of woodworkers have been using milling machine end mills to machine wood parts on milling machines. Sooooo, how about installing a 1/2 inch milling machine end mill with plunge cutting ability and reducing the speed of the router as much as possible. Then slow plow through everything to clean it out.

[Norman Hitt]

Mark, I can't remember who makes them, but how about using the hollow drill bit with the saw teeth on the end that is made to drill around broken screws so you can get to the screw with an extractor tool to remove them. The bit is small, not a lot larger than the screw, or in this case the brad, (there are about 3 or 4 sizes available if I remember correctly), and you could then use needle nose vice grips and extract the brads without damaging any surrounding area, and then do the normal routing as you had planned.

Just a thought, you could probably make one of these yourself from a short piece of Steel Tubing and just file some teeth on one end. Good luck.

[Keith Christopher]

Mark,

I've routed through 18ga without a problem. I used a diamond hone on the bit afterward to be sure. But brads are thin and soft enough that I don't think you'll even notice if you do. As a matter of fact had it not been for seeing part of the brad in the wood, I didn't even know.

Keith

[Ian Barley]

Mark

The glass is ruined anyway - right? If I were you I would do a controlled break on the glass (lots of padding, eye protection , big hammer) then remove what is left of the glass from the groove between the rebate and the moulding.

This will give you more room to work whatever method you use. If you have to rout them out I would rout up to about 1/4" short of each brad location then remove the remaining waste with a chisel until you have the brad exposed and can pull it with pliers.

Whichever way you go good luck.

[Jim Knauss]

I second Ian's idea!
Jim Knauss

[Dave Richards]

Ian does have a good point. You might be able to work in between the door and the stop and lift the brads enough to get hold of their heads and pull them out.

A question comes to mind from this, Mark. I probably would have attached the stop the same way as you did. Has this little incident changed your thinking about the way you would attach glass stop? Would you avoid the glue next time around?

I wonder if this would be a good application for hide glue since a bit of heat will loosen the glue.

Skip the brads next time? If you do, you are relying on the glue to hold the glass in place. If you use brads and glue you'll have to work through this again if the glass gets broken. And you'd have to make new glass stop. Then again, glass doesn't break that often. Maybe you won't have to replace any more glass.

Good luck. I'm sure you'll get it worked out in short order.

[Mark Singer]

Mark

The glass is ruined anyway - right? If I were you I would do a controlled break on the glass (lots of padding, eye protection , big hammer) then remove what is left of the glass from the groove between the rebate and the moulding.

This will give you more room to work whatever method you use. If you have to rout them out I would rout up to about 1/4" short of each brad location then remove the remaining waste with a chisel until you have the brad exposed and can pull it with pliers.

Whichever way you go good luck.

Ian,
The glass is laminated-inner layer safety glass.....there is a .060 vinyl plastic sheet in the center of 2 pieces of glass....it will be very , very difficult to remove....

[Mark Singer]

Dave,
I have made many doors this way...you are taking a bit of a chance....I have a friend, Richard Evans in Laguna Canyon that has hundreds of doors and uses the same technique. The crack is very rare and unusual....The gluing of the stop gives an almost invisible joint....On some doors I used my pin nailer which is 23ga and thiner than the brads....I will have to check....I think this one has brads.

[Dave Richards]

Mark, I wasn't questioning your decision to use nails. Just wondering what to do. I know the cracks in the glass are rare and I was also thinking about the glued stop having an almost invisible joint.

[Ian Barley]

Ian,
The glass is laminated-inner layer safety glass.....there is a .060 vinyl plastic sheet in the center of 2 pieces of glass....it will be very , very difficult to remove....
Ah well - it seemed like a good idea at the time. Over here the standard is to use toughened rather than laminated.

[tod evans]

might be a good time to spring for that insert cutter you`ve been eyeing :) tod

[Mark Singer]

might be a good time to spring for that insert cutter you`ve been eyeing :) tod

Insert cutter ,HUH?

[Kent Parker]

Mark,

I don't know the size of your stops but would it be possible to cut off some of the wood with a circular saw with a guide rail to minimize the amount of wood the router bit has to cut through? Then follow up with the router to "fine tune" the cut ?

Kent

[Mark Singer]

Mark,

I don't know the size of your stops but would it be possible to cut off some of the wood with a circular saw with a guide rail to minimize the amount of wood the router bit has to cut through? Then follow up with the router to "fine tune" the cut ?

Kent

That is a darn good idea! I have the Festool Plunge saw and an old blade...I could set it just above the glass and saw the line out...

[Dev Emch]

The brads are soft and the bit is carbide. So whats the problem? Well, the botton edges are ground very sharp. Much sharper than a carbide bit used to cut metal. My concern is not that the bit could not get through the brad but that I may be flaking off chunks of carbide on my botton cutting edges. The side edges are less prone to damage here. Slow enough and gentle enough, you could use almost any type of router bit or end mill. But in time, you will get some damage. I have a CMT that I use only for cutting holes in hardwood floors. The bit has hit more than its share of flooring nails. It still works but I would not use my good fine woodworking bits for this!

Now the festool saw idea sounds splendid. And the blade is carbide tipped and that plunge action is to die for. I vote on using the festool circular saw for this job!