Blasphemy! Another Glowforge Post!

[Chase Mueller]

Alright Y'all, please don't rake me over the coals for this, but I'm considering a GF..
Lets just assume I know what I'm doing here and burning my house down is unlikely since that seems to be a major talking point. I work with an epilog 5 days a week, and lately I've wanted to start making my own stuff with it, nothing for sale or anything, just want to make gifts for my lady and family, simple engravings on wood or anodized dog tags would likely be it. Purely for pleasure. Not gonna lie, the price is a big factor. Realistically I'm 6months to a year before I make a purchase. I just wanted to know everyone's thoughts on the machine itself, and if it really is one of those products that even someone with experience should just completely avoid. Also taking suggestions :D

[Gary Hair]

Have you read the bazillion post thread about GF? Doesn't that give you all the info you need?

[Chase Mueller]

Have you read the bazillion post thread about GF? Doesn't that give you all the info you need?
I have, yes. Including the ongoing one. My issue with them, however, is that most of the concerns seem to stem from the CEO being shady, or it being marketed towards people that don't know the potential dangers. Should have worded my question differently maybe. I guess in your opinion is the device itself worth it? or is there something else similar in price range and size(maybe even smaller) that I should consider?

[William Adams]

The thing that I'm not understanding is, aside from marketing and vaporware software, what does Glowforge bring to the table? Low price? The FSL Muse starts at $5,000, same as the Glowforge basic (w/ a filter)

[Chase Mueller]

The thing that I'm not understanding is, aside from marketing and vaporware software, what does Glowforge bring to the table? Low price? The FSL Muse starts at $5,000, same as the Glowforge basic (w/ a filter)
Personally, it was price, size, and ease of use if I ever wanted to show my family or something how to operate it. They also offer that booklet thing of designs and instructions which is kinda neat

[Bill George]

Personally, it was price, size, and ease of use if I ever wanted to show my family or something how to operate it. They also offer that booklet thing of designs and instructions which is kinda neat

You need to go back and do some searching here and research else where on the Glow Forge versa a standard co2 laser. Is it worth it?? Honestly? You decide, If your just wanting attention just keep posting.

[Chase Mueller]

You need to go back and do some searching here and research else where on the Glow Forge versa a standard co2 laser. Is it worth it?? Honestly? You decide, If your just wanting attention just keep posting.
I'm not sure where the whole attention thing came from, seems a bit rude. Thanks for the relative reply.

[Gary Hair]

I have, yes. Including the ongoing one. My issue with them, however, is that most of the concerns seem to stem from the CEO being shady, or it being marketed towards people that don't know the potential dangers. Should have worded my question differently maybe. I guess in your opinion is the device itself worth it? or is there something else similar in price range and size(maybe even smaller) that I should consider?

Just my opinion (and I'm not going to argue with anyone about my statements, they are my opinion and I don't feel the need to defend them) - If you want a laser that you can use easily and show someone else how to use easily, then the way the GF is *supposed* to work might make it a good consideration. However, the reality is that you aren't going to get all of the functionality that the marketing hype would have you believe. If you want a laser that is available now and does what it is supposed to do, then buy a Trotec. If that's out of your price range then you can get a reasonable amount of functionality from a Chinese machine, you just have to know the limitations. Search here for recommendations, there are plenty of decent machines available - there is plenty of crap too so avoid ebay and amazon.

[Gary Hair]

I'm not sure where the whole attention thing came from, seems a bit rude.

I agree. There is a lot of "body part measurement" going on in the GF post, I believe this to be a preemptive strike...

[Matt McCoy]

Hey Chase: Unfortunately, SMC is not going to be the place for unbiased opinion on the GF. I suspect you've already read through, at least some of the thread here, but you can add Rabbit, Boss, FSL, etc. to your list to look at too. They have U.S. support, if that's important to you, and their entry-level machines will be in the same ballpark. Besides FSL, they will have Chinese controllers and software, so you might read up on Lightburn to consider as an option and do away with some of the idiosyncrasies. These machines won't have some of the features you mentioned, but will likely engrave and cut faster.

If you're pretty self-sufficient and able to troubleshoot/make repairs, the most bang for your buck will be to import directly from China. There's a lot of good info on SMC to keep you going.

Since you have CAD/CAM laser experience, there should not be many hurdles to be up and running. Be sure to add the cost and space for the ancillary equipment (e.g., water cooling, evac, air-assist, etc.)

Hope that helps.

[Kev Williams]

I have a slightly different take on this--

I haven't read every single post in every thread about the Glowforge. But I'm pretty sure that, at the very least, 99% of us who've put forth our opinions of them on these pages, me included-- don't own one. This is not to say the negative press isn't justified, just pointing out a simple fact.

That said, you're looking for another laser, and a GF costs about $5000-- to start...

This is my Triumph on day one, right after offloading it from the U-haul trailer I had to rent to get it home from the storage company...
380647

-behind the thing are 4' x 8' sheets of styro-board, gives you an idea of the size--

This was as plain jane no-frills as they come: came with a non-moving solid table (which actually became a big bonus), 80 watt RECI, a 3000 water 'cooler' (not refer), a blower, air assist diaphragm pump, and some spare mirrors. I bought it simply as a test to see if I could make use of it lasering SS and anodized, among other things.

-I really don't use it all that much, yet this thing has probably paid for itself 20x over since I got it in Dec 2013.

-- and the machine, accessories, shipping, duties, storage, brokers fees-- total price to my door came to less than $5k...

Not saying you should buy a Triumph, but I AM saying, it IS one of the many, MANY other options out there, that are proven workhorses and come with much less baggage :D

[Chase Mueller]

Hey Chase: Unfortunately, SMC is not going to be the place for unbiased opinion on the GF. I suspect you've already read through, at least some of the thread here, but you can add Rabbit, Boss, FSL, etc. to your list to look at too. They have U.S. support, if that's important to you, and their entry-level machines will be in the same ballpark. Besides FSL, they will have Chinese controllers and software, so you might read up on Lightburn to consider as an option and do away with some of the idiosyncrasies. These machines won't have some of the features you mentioned, but will likely engrave and cut faster.

If you're pretty self-sufficient and able to troubleshoot/make repairs, the most bang for your buck will be to import directly from China. There's a lot of good info on SMC to keep you going.

Since you have CAD/CAM laser experience, there should not be many hurdles to be up and running. Be sure to add the cost and space for the ancillary equipment (e.g., water cooling, evac, air-assist, etc.)

Hope that helps.
Thank you! I appreciate the advice. Just to make sure I understand, are you saying that Rabbit and Boss have Chinese controllers and software, while FSL does not? And if so, what puts them in the same category? Just price at that point?

[Chase Mueller]

Just my opinion (and I'm not going to argue with anyone about my statements, they are my opinion and I don't feel the need to defend them) - If you want a laser that you can use easily and show someone else how to use easily, then the way the GF is *supposed* to work might make it a good consideration. However, the reality is that you aren't going to get all of the functionality that the marketing hype would have you believe. If you want a laser that is available now and does what it is supposed to do, then buy a Trotec. If that's out of your price range then you can get a reasonable amount of functionality from a Chinese machine, you just have to know the limitations. Search here for recommendations, there are plenty of decent machines available - there is plenty of crap too so avoid ebay and amazon.
I think I'm probably going to abandon the GF idea. Thank you for the tips, this forum has definitely shown me to play it safe and stay off ebay lol

[Matt McCoy]

Thank you! I appreciate the advice. Just to make sure I understand, are you saying that Rabbit and Boss have Chinese controllers and software, while FSL does not? And if so, what puts them in the same category? Just price at that point?

No problem Chase. That is correct -- FSL has RetinaEngrave 3D, which is a true print driver. You simply print from your CAD software. Lightburn, which is really coming along, would be worth looking into if you end up leaning toward a machine with a Chinese controller/software. The developer is regularly adding functionality and support for more cards.

[Chase Mueller]

I have a slightly different take on this--

I haven't read every single post in every thread about the Glowforge. But I'm pretty sure that, at the very least, 99% of us who've put forth our opinions of them on these pages, me included-- don't own one. This is not to say the negative press isn't justified, just pointing out a simple fact.

That said, you're looking for another laser, and a GF costs about $5000-- to start...

This is my Triumph on day one, right after offloading it from the U-haul trailer I had to rent to get it home from the storage company...
380647

-behind the thing are 4' x 8' sheets of styro-board, gives you an idea of the size--

This was as plain jane no-frills as they come: came with a non-moving solid table (which actually became a big bonus), 80 watt RECI, a 3000 water 'cooler' (not refer), a blower, air assist diaphragm pump, and some spare mirrors. I bought it simply as a test to see if I could make use of it lasering SS and anodized, among other things.

-I really don't use it all that much, yet this thing has probably paid for itself 20x over since I got it in Dec 2013.

-- and the machine, accessories, shipping, duties, storage, brokers fees-- total price to my door came to less than $5k...

Not saying you should buy a Triumph, but I AM saying, it IS one of the many, MANY other options out there, that are proven workhorses and come with much less baggage :D
That was a well thought out reply. I believe we share some of the same opinions.
I would love a triumph, I really would, my only hangup is size. THE most appealing thing about GF was size. Pictures and videos made it seem very small. That's kind my buying point I think.
... now that I think about it, that's really the only reason I entertained GF

[Chase Mueller]

No problem Chase. That is correct -- FSL has RetinaEngrave 3D, which is a true print driver. You simply print from your CAD software. Lightburn, which is really coming along, would be worth looking into if you end up leaning toward a machine with a Chinese controller/software. The developer is regularly adding functionality and support for more cards.
Duly noted. Thank you very much.

[Jerome Stanek]

Another thing to think about is do you want a rotary to do round stuff. Get one that has enough depth to accommodate that.

[Chase Mueller]

Another thing to think about is do you want a rotary to do round stuff. Get one that has enough depth to accommodate that.
That's the thing, I really don't know. The laser will be used solely for hobby work, like advanced arts and crafts essentially. I can't think of anything off the top of my head I'd use it for, but probably a good thing to keep in mind. Thanks!

[Ryan Mooney]

That's the thing, I really don't know. The laser will be used solely for hobby work, like advanced arts and crafts essentially. I can't think of anything off the top of my head I'd use it for, but probably a good thing to keep in mind. Thanks!

I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but some of the el-cheapo 3d printers have a laser head (or can be converted to have a crappy one pretty cheaply - http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-a-3D-PRINTER-to-LASER-ENGRAVER-Under-40/). Its not actually useful for anything real past putting some not-to-deep marks on stuff.... but I've been considering doing that as a toe-in-the-water. You can get some of the 3d printers that ~mostly~ work for around $200-300 dollar range (Anet A8 & friends). They do take a bit of fiddling and hand holding but it seemed like it might be an interesting way to learn how this stuff works before springing for a "real" system.

Again this isn't something that I'd use for more than a toy.. but its a cheap way to stick your toe in the water.

[Scott Shepherd]

THE most appealing thing about GF was size. Pictures and videos made it seem very small. That's kind my buying point I think.
... now that I think about it, that's really the only reason I entertained GF

Just a few more options for you in that small size range machines...

Versalaser from Universal, 12" x 16" or 12" x 24" working area (in the small sizes)
https://www.ulsinc.com/products/platforms/vls2-30

Epilog Zing, 12" x 16" or 12" x 24"
https://www.epiloglaser.com/products/zing-laser-series.htm

Trotec Rayjet 50, 12" x 18"
http://www.rayjetlaser.com/en-US-US/Pages/laser-engraving.aspx


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=44&v=7IziLwaVvDc

[Dave Sheldrake]

I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but some of the el-cheapo 3d printers have a laser head (or can be converted to have a crappy one pretty cheaply - http://www.instructables.com/id/Convert-a-3D-PRINTER-to-LASER-ENGRAVER-Under-40/). Its not actually useful for anything real past putting some not-to-deep marks on stuff.... but I've been considering doing that as a toe-in-the-water. You can get some of the 3d printers that ~mostly~ work for around $200-300 dollar range (Anet A8 & friends). They do take a bit of fiddling and hand holding but it seemed like it might be an interesting way to learn how this stuff works before springing for a "real" system.

Again this isn't something that I'd use for more than a toy.. but its a cheap way to stick your toe in the water.

Likely the most dangerous garbage on the market, 445nm blinds permanently for fun and gives no second chances. The mechanism for damage from 445 is 20x that of a CO2 laser (Based on photon energy)
The eye will focus any strays onto the macula lutea making the damage non fixable (unlike a cheap shot from a co2 that burns the eye lens)

I cannot in all honesty slate these 445's enough, they are dreadful ,dangerous garbage that should be purged from the laser community


On the GF Chase?

@$2,000 probably worth a punt as you only want it for giggles, @$4,000 not a hope

[John Lifer]

I initially looked at the gf for a couple of days. Then with just a little research, abandoned the thought. My initial machine that I priced was a ray fine 500x900 unit at about $3000 with a rotary and shipping. So about $3500 with customs. I upgraded to larger machine. Not too much over $5k. No way would I even think about a gf. No way.

[Howard Garner]

If the OP is looking at spending about $5k, the is a Universal VersalLaser VL-300 with honeycomb and rotary on that auction place starting at $5999.
Might be a good option. and priced about right

Howard Garner

[Chase Mueller]

Thanks, everyone! Most of you have it right, this is really just a toe in the water, I wanna mess around kinda purchase. Thanks as well to everyone who is suggesting alternative machines!

[David Sharp02]

If you're the handy type, you might consider a K40. $300 is pretty cheap to get into a CO2 based laser, and from what I've seen the K40 is miles better a 5w laser diode attached to a 3d printer.

[Bill George]

Thanks, everyone! Most of you have it right, this is really just a toe in the water, I wanna mess around kinda purchase. Thanks as well to everyone who is suggesting alternative machines!

When you have this Epilog Fusion M2 40 Watt CO2/Fiber Laser, why would you want a Chinese machine? I had a diode laser engraver and it was a big disappointment and as Dave said you need to have protective glasses on ALL the time its in operation.

[Chase Mueller]

When you have this Epilog Fusion M2 40 Watt CO2/Fiber Laser, why would you want a Chinese machine? I had a diode laser engraver and it was a big disappointment and as Dave said you need to have protective glasses on ALL the time its in operation.
I keep eye protection on at all times regardless, Booth policy where I work.

I'm entertaining a cheapo laser strictly just to mess with because the epilog is not mine, it belongs to the company I work for, I just happen to be the only one here who knows how to use it. Sometimes I'm allowed to do my own stuff off company time, but I'd rather have my own hobby style laser, that way if something breaks, it's not the Epilog on my dime.

[Wojciech Szul]

Just a few more options for you in that small size range machines...
Trotec Rayjet
I was quoting this machine /thinking about very particular job/ at 2017 from official seller and answer was:
"A NEW Rayjet 30W machine including Out to Air extraction, delivery , installation and training would come to €11,995 + VAT" what makes over 18k $. Ouch.... :( Totally different range of prices, over 3.5 times of mentioned 5k$.
It was in Europe, so no TAX duties. Samples what they make was ugly, but probably they won't know what they should to do... I have to visit them and do my own to know what is possible.

[Scott Shepherd]

I was quoting this machine /thinking about very particular job/ at 2017 from official seller and answer was:
"A NEW Rayjet 30W machine including Out to Air extraction, delivery , installation and training would come to €11,995 + VAT" what makes over 18k $. Ouch.... :( Totally different range of prices, over 3.5 times of mentioned 5k$.
It was in Europe, so no TAX duties. Samples what they make was ugly, but probably they won't know what they should to do... I have to visit them and do my own to know what is possible.

I can't speak for European pricing, but I can assure you that the machine listed isn't $18,000 in the US.

[Dave Sheldrake]

I can't speak for European pricing, but I can assure you that the machine listed isn't $18,000 in the US.

Trotecs are expensive over here Scotty, the Speedy 300 usually runs around $38,000 to $40,000

[Bill George]

I think the Rayjet is the low cost Trotec option. The OP can decide which route when he gets back Monday to post.

[Scott Shepherd]

Trotecs are expensive over here Scotty, the Speedy 300 usually runs around $38,000 to $40,000

Understood, but he was comparing US pricing on some models to his European pricing experience with Trotec. Just trying to make sure all was compared fairly. You can certainly get an $18,000 Rayjet, but it won't be the one in the video, it'll be a lot bigger and have a lot more power.

The one in the video is the entry level once which isn't far off on the price point the other two machines listed.

[Art Mann]

In your original post, you mentioned that 6 - 12 months is your purchase time frame. That means you have enough time to wait and see. If Glowforge still exists then and if a majority of users are getting good results, then you can consider it.

[Wojciech Szul]

Likely the most dangerous garbage on the market, 445nm blinds permanently /.../ they are dreadful ,dangerous garbage that should be purged from the laser community. Totally agree. This crap spreads all around (because are cheap) and what is a worst main target of buyers are inexperienced, unconscious and not educated persons. Quite often teenagers. And they are NOT effective as tools, one lad tried cut 3mm plywood with 5.5W LED laser. It takes 13 passes (!) to cut through. He have EleksMaker (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXF5Om8g5jU) which is worth $480 at GearBest. For comparison cheapest CO2 laser K40 (working with ~27W) can cut 3mm plywood with 11mm/s in 1 pass. With similar price I suppose. Weird and SAD he is happy with this dangerous LED toy... :(

Personally I think there should be post or other clearly marked warning regards LED lasers on this forum.

[Bert McMahan]

Personally I think there should be post or other clearly marked warning regards LED lasers on this forum.

Good idea, though I do wonder if there are any applications where those lasers work particularly well. I mean speaking purely academically- I wonder if there are any exotic materials that cut way better with that wavelength or something. I know there are some plastics that work pretty well with UV wavelengths that fiber and CO2 don't work well on.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Good idea, though I do wonder if there are any applications where those lasers work particularly well. I mean speaking purely academically- I wonder if there are any exotic materials that cut way better with that wavelength or something. I know there are some plastics that work pretty well with UV wavelengths that fiber and CO2 don't work well on.

There are yes but diode lasers like those are typically very poor quality multimode rubbish so can't really be compared to decent equipment in that wavelength. Same with 532's used in inside carving lasers systems, high quality work well, low quality "green" pointers leak IR like a sieve (greens are frequency doubled IR's)

The problem is the way the eye deals with UV and near UV wavelengths, it doesn't focus on the lens of the eye, the eye's lens focuses it at the back of the eye in an area called the Macula Lutea so any damage done by them is usually permanent. .445 has a far higher individual photon energy compared to CO2 as well (there is no way to directly compare the "power" of the two wavelengths other than watt-seconds.

If you take the basic 10,600 CO2, that has a photon energy of 0.117eV where 445nm has a photon energy of 2.788eV, if you convert both to watt/seconds then the 445 can be said to be 24x more *dangerous* than a simple CO2 (without taking into account the mechanism of damage either) (in effect a 5 watt 445 being comparable to a 120 watt CO2) there's a lot more to it involving band gap energies and absorption etc etc but on simple face value 445's are dangerous junk in unqualified hands that do not tolerate mistakes, even small one's.....

[Bill George]

Like I have said before I had a diode laser purchased from China and upgraded at considerable expense, and aside from not fast and not great engraving on wood it was useless. Unless you like to just waste a lot of time. The real danger is the damage to the eye as Dave and others have pointed out. When it was being sold to builders and people who like to experiment with new things they were made aware of the dangers.

You could take a cheap K40 put another $400 in upgrades and have something that worked for less than $1,000 USD.

[Lee DeRaud]

If the OP is looking at spending about $5k, the is a Universal VersalLaser VL-300 with honeycomb and rotary on that auction place starting at $5999.
Might be a good option. and priced about right

Howard GarnerThat's a decent price, even assuming it's due for a tube recharge*: new equivalent model is about $15K with a 30W tube (last time I checked anyway), and they're pretty much bulletproof. My VL200 is 13 years old, average "maintenance" works out to about $250/year, in the form of three tube recharges and a power supply.

(*I'd assume any used machine needs it, unless the seller has a recent invoice from ULS showing it was done in the last year or two. They generally last 4-5 years in "hobbyist" mode.)

[Chase Mueller]

.
(*I'd assume any used machine needs it, unless the seller has a recent invoice from ULS showing it was done in the last year or two. They generally last 4-5 years in "hobbyist" mode.)

When you say "hobbyist" mode, what do you mean? As in not using it daily..?

[Lee DeRaud]

When you say "hobbyist" mode, what do you mean? As in not using it daily..?Yup. No hard numbers, but the tubes seems to have a life measured as "X hours of run-time or Y months of shelf time, whichever comes first".
My first tube died on "hours" about 4.5 years in, the second lasted about six years with lighter usage.

[Kev Williams]

When I bought the GCC from Gary, our negotiations included the possibility I'd need a tube in short order, since the machine was 10 years old. It's now 13 years old, I do use it daily, and it hasn't lost a step (knock on my head)-
My LS900 was built in '03, I bought it in '04 and it's still running like new (knock on my head ;) )
The 1997 ULS I sold to my BIL when I got the GCC, I put a new tube in 11 years ago (which it turned out wasn't necessary), that machine engraves cedar boxes 1/8" deep several hours a day, and it just keeps going (knock on my head! :D )

--all of these tubes are Synrad's. Whatever their 'use' or 'shelf' life is, I have no idea :) (and I hope it stays that way)

[Lee DeRaud]

When I bought the GCC from Gary, our negotiations included the possibility I'd need a tube in short order, since the machine was 10 years old. It's now 13 years old, I do use it daily, and it hasn't lost a step (knock on my head)-
My LS900 was built in '03, I bought it in '04 and it's still running like new (knock on my head ;) )
The 1997 ULS I sold to my BIL when I got the GCC, I put a new tube in 11 years ago (which it turned out wasn't necessary), that machine engraves cedar boxes 1/8" deep several hours a day, and it just keeps going (knock on my head! :D )

--all of these tubes are Synrad's. Whatever their 'use' or 'shelf' life is, I have no idea :) (and I hope it stays that way)What wattage are those?
I'm wondering if higher-power tubes last longer because they don't spend as much time running at 100%. My relatively puny 25W is mostly used for cutting 1/4" MDF and acrylic: lots of long full power runs.

(I'm under the impression that ULS used to use Synrad tubes but started making their own at some point.)

[Chase Mueller]

Interesting. Thanks for the reply. Still trying to convince the warden that I need a laser at home. LOL

[Gary Hair]

What wattage are those?
I'm wondering if higher-power tubes last longer because they don't spend as much time running at 100%. My relatively puny 25W is mostly used for cutting 1/4" MDF and acrylic: lots of long full power runs.

(I'm under the impression that ULS used to use Synrad tubes but started making their own at some point.)

I don't know about the rest, but the GCC is 30 watts.

[Gary Hair]

When I bought the GCC from Gary, our negotiations included the possibility I'd need a tube in short order, since the machine was 10 years old. It's now 13 years old, I do use it daily, and it hasn't lost a step (knock on my head)-
My LS900 was built in '03, I bought it in '04 and it's still running like new (knock on my head ;) )
The 1997 ULS I sold to my BIL when I got the GCC, I put a new tube in 11 years ago (which it turned out wasn't necessary), that machine engraves cedar boxes 1/8" deep several hours a day, and it just keeps going (knock on my head! :D )

--all of these tubes are Synrad's. Whatever their 'use' or 'shelf' life is, I have no idea :) (and I hope it stays that way)

Just because I'm a nitpicker - the GCC will be 12 years old this August, I bought it in 2006.

[Lee DeRaud]

There's some kind of weird temporal vortex around Kev's house.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

[Clark Pace]

Likely the most dangerous garbage on the market, 445nm blinds permanently for fun and gives no second chances. The mechanism for damage from 445 is 20x that of a CO2 laser (Based on photon energy)
The eye will focus any strays onto the macula lutea making the damage non fixable (unlike a cheap shot from a co2 that burns the eye lens)

I cannot in all honesty slate these 445's enough, they are dreadful ,dangerous garbage that should be purged from the laser community


On the GF Chase?

@$2,000 probably worth a punt as you only want it for giggles, @$4,000 not a hope


Like any tool. If precautions are not taken care of it can be dangerous. Through some are more dangerous then others.

[Bert Kemp]

Is Kev's Head OK:DHe done a lot of knockin on it lately ?

[Dave Sheldrake]

Like any tool. If precautions are not taken care of it can be dangerous. Through some are more dangerous then others.

The problem with 445's is folks look at them and think, "oh it's only 1 watt" but in that wavelength that 1 watt will blind permanently before the user can blink. At least stuff like circular saws and planers etc *look* dangerous, some of these Chinese 1 watt gizmo's look like toys and a few folks will treat them like toys then wonder why the world has gone black

[Kev Williams]

The GCC as Gary says is 30 watts, the rebuilt tube in the little ULS is 25 watts (but tested at 31, I even got a printed graph of the test ;) ), my LS900 is 40 watts...
And ironically, 80%+ of the time these machines run they're doing raster duty, they don't cut much, and even less since I got the Triumph. The irony is I always assumed cutting was harder on the tubes, but Dave says the opposite is true due to the constant on/off pulsing that goes on when rastering, which makes sense...

And just an FYI, one of the times the LS900 WAS cutting, the fly in my avatar was walking around inside the cabinet... notice he's missing a wing? ;)

Temporal Vortex, lol... Sounds too much like a fancy toilet :D

[Clark Pace]

Goog point