Worthwhile to "upgrade" from contractor saw to 1.5hp cabinet saw?

[Grant Aldridge]

I’ve got a craftsman 113 saw now and it cuts great with some shortcomings –
-5/4+ hardwood makes it struggle (I could try a thin kerf rip blade, currently using a full kerf marathon for ripping)
-it is a chore to tilt the blade to 45, I just haven’t wanted to do a full tear down but that should be fixable.
-the arbor is short so I can't run a 3/4 dado stack
Mine has a T2 fence.

I’ve got an opportunity to buy a kinda rusty but supposedly in good working order right tilt unisaw for $400 but it’s got a 1.5hp motor. It has a Vega fence.
What do the Creekers think?
https://image.ibb.co/m4qv7c/232_CF87_D_CF15_4_DB1_A179_DE94_D2156_CD9.jpg
380187


https://image.ibb.co/jbg2nc/489_BFB90_A097_406_B_BDBA_296_C2_ED025_D2.jpg

https://image.ibb.co/g1aTSc/80_B4_CFF1_E7_DA_4_F40_9453_9391892_E259_B.jpg

[Brian Henderson]

"What should I do" threads like this are difficult, only you can gauge whether your current saw is inadequate to what you want to do with it. A cabinet saw is great, so long as it's in good working condition and has the abilities that you need to do what you want to do. At $400, that's a good deal on a cabinet saw, assuming that it works well and that you can get the rust off. Is it something you need to jump on no matter what? I don't know. I'm not in your shop every day. I don't know how you work or what you make. I don't know what kind of space you have in your shop. I would certainly go take a look at the saw to see if you think it's worth buying, but only you can weigh all of the options and make that decision.

[Roger Marty]

I would personally enjoy buying that Unisaw and cleaning it up.

It is not much of a safety upgrade over your existing saw, but will surely be an upgrade in its functionality and a better platform for future upgrades.

I use a 1.75HP SawStop PCS and the power is good enough for me.

[Grant Aldridge]

Thanks Brian, I should've written that a little differently. I know it's largely a personal decision I'm just wondering if the 1.5 motor on the cabinet saw is a major downside. I've been working a lot more with 2"+ antique heart pine which has been pushing my saw to the limit. My gut says keep what I've got till I find (or decide to buy new) a 3hp saw

[Will Boulware]

I agree with Brian about each individual scenario being different, but let me fling some more spaghetti at the wall and see if any of it sticks.

I've read thread after thread about how people can't get a 113 saw to cut anything bigger than plywood or 4/4 soft white pine and I don't understand it. I have one. Mine's a 1988 model if anyone's interested. I threw the stock fence in the trash after a long 3 years and put a Vega on it, and lo and behold, it became a usable saw! Man, what a difference that made. My blade is aligned very well with the miter slots, as is the fence. No PALS, just the occasional whack with a hammer when it gets out of alignment. Very simple setup on these, just takes a little time. I use a combination blade from Woodworker's Tool Works for most cuts, and change out to a Freud 30 tooth glue line rip blade for any significant rip cut I need to make. This is NOT a thin kerf blade. I don't like them and won't go back to one. YMMV. But with a full kerf reasonably priced 30 tooth rip blade (which is not THAT aggressive - plenty of 24 tooth options out there), I've successfully ripped 8/4 white oak, hickory, pecan, cherry, walnut, maple, honey locust, and several others, all with great results.

The Unisaw is definitely an upgrade, but if you're willing to put in the time to restore that particular saw to a usable condition (plus the time to drive there and bring it home), why not throw a few hours into the saw you've got and see if you can fix the problem before replacing it because something else might do something a little better? And seriously, give one of those Freud rip blades a try. It'll work on the Unisaw too if the 113 just doesn't work out for you. :D

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, 1.5HP is plenty of power for a 10 inch table saw, properly adjusted using the correct blade.

The issue with older saws is that sometimes they lack safety devices such as splitters/riving knives and guards. This isn't an insurmountable issue, splitters and guards can be purchased, and it's not only old machines, sometimes new machines need additional guards.

I added a $400 guard to a new $10K saw/shaper because I wanted to be able to perform non through cuts, and the factory guard couldn't be used for that.

At the price you're looking at, you could spend $500 to $600 on safety improvements and have a really nice saw.......Regards, Rod.

[John TenEyck]

I have both saws you are considering. I bought a cast iron Sears saw with a 1 HP motor on it. Tilting it to 45° is a PITA. Cutting 8/4 stock on it is slow, even with a thin kerf blade. I got a 1954 Unisaw for free minus a motor. I found a 1.5 HP Rockwell motor to fit it and that's what I've been using now for about 10 years. It cuts 8/4 stock well enough with a low tooth ripping blade, or a thin kerf ripping blade. 3 HP would be better for thick stock, for sure, but it's fine. Cutting bevels with the Unisaw is a dream. The trunions move easily and smoothly and the cuts are perfectly parallel with the blade. It's a joy to use. I had to change the arbor bearings after using it a couple of years but that wasn't too hard.

I actually put both saws together with one 52" Vega Pro fence across both, and like the combo a lot.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6kcYhLh8-xFAVbAmn9d7EYh0eLXW6OtbdtpuITuxWp3u-NJGBgJGNa045q-NQSEET7BYDMLBEcSyYPmhkHO8gm0TXMXQyPJIQ73O_WyEc_9j-AO_0q8nmtMjj8DvO7PaHQnFdw-Nx_i-t9tBkwVH6HJnhAu0WjBVHKnO6wMAO7rJ_SLjI0QQYOXf0nZX_B Ft5SAbt5RPtF5MlrOmbJWUkDx5t2r7kNsSKm0K0jeU0rn806wE 7mI9L_8AbtqUIwcVPhJ9TcSIFNik69fSCAAKilniIJvycsWxT-aHB5uC-Be3KwJiSl2TsNj108k2U9xrbO6xsFIm-UBFM92rcrfYUbDRvqZJG2S4KnxcJ8EmQ1hgxp7APbBKxjkq_qo jZ2bfGPN8e6JY2IS8v6rmLyfsF019TjeTRb71adTQCQaSURWRj oZXM_I66WF6MMMx-Ezp1pw2UZFTAXWYrcMHJW-X42XO1ueUCtTXbPzqT_gRq2UjK4cWCzBlslycPs3jV_X5yqpfr A4GVZ0kNLOH5CArY6-YPp_Aph5iWAGoiip8CI69Ry1b3XG5f5Jq0MsZ03Az4ADdnk4cS s4sdTQec2TGj_cFi2VmKk1OF3BzNZg=w835-h626-no

There was no splitter or guard on the saw when I got it, so I adapted an old Sears guard to it, mounted to the ceiling. I also made a splitter, actually several, but this is the one used most of the time.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Z5TdF0SkzN0_MWXqrokqOJld_beJ1scoIx3elVACXZz6d-bkO9rH6j6dWL4qxoFKhnYJd9jQI9P6lkO322dK-BXCN2hYy38hzom5cPRDmHHarroGvpHxQQSaPBSVn63QGw16zN_ cQEourXO5Gmtb7UBwseU4H0wI0cg0IwFk43lmdTRyzBUtSXaQB 8I1YYb94ihv2JdZ8rHfyxb70jDtiYLQOZRVksCBhbu6YESTJrm ay4np_-t1lco-7dK-i6jzIIutkxolyyOh6H-qjqbWTAoQOd4IzrBvbaMV0vIdVx_AUTxQD4aAm9CtWqZDtycoC kUALXs0FoPu1UQSd5kihNgevvvwvGO-DFud3j8MccagfdQM-IBeTvIk-7uI8x3H_zcYPVjZe9EPa2VnqEgQKwXNFYeixZjNlNY5XCqiLgp C4SLegEVOXbfLlcrT1Sgk6RKDPoBrgyGTq9Wg5HTTTIvBvgjqD dxo5rYqnNQFEr8ZNU2olUj-DFZuUwN_LhYE3BYqCu5jz-zQy-pRZTI8TrhMe8GF79B0W6C-tUMPmSKG8pLeMaekYDxsUYWmKXnDKl_OtGSSwtkK3GZQUMfiG4 5ew3QLeEorWVxi_jM=w835-h626-no

I would not hesitate to buy that saw if it's in good shape internally. It's a huge step up over the Sears.

John

[Phillip Gregory]

The Unisaw would be a good upgrade from a contractor saw. A Unisaw or a clone of one is a LOT more saw than a Sears contractor saw- it's heavier, more solid, typically has a significantly better fence, and keeps its adjustments far better. My Dad has a 1 hp Craftsman contractor saw and its capabilities are about what you describe for yours. I attribute quite a bit of that to the saw being difficult to keep in good adjustment and a saw binding up because the fence or blade are out of square robs a bunch of power.

$400 is a fair but not great price for that Unisaw. It is missing the goose egg (motor cover) and the motor starter is banged up or hacked up and may need replaced, but it does have an apparently complete fence which is grossly better than the stuff Sears put on most of their saws. A complete Unisaw in good condition sells for about $700 or so. You can also get much larger motors for a right tilt Unisaw, 3 hp units were available in the newer ones like the one you posted a picture of. 3 hp in a well adjusted 10" cabinet saw is pretty much unstoppable unless you have a really wrong or really dull blade on it.

If you want a 10" cabinet saw that's a bit of a project, that's not a bad one. I don't know exactly how big of a saw you want, but the Delta 12/14 would be extremely unlikely to ever be "too little" and can often be had for not that much more than a 10" Unisaw.

[Matt Day]

$400 is a bit steep for a saw in that condition. No dust door or motor cover (that vintage didn’t have a goose egg by the way), and it’s going to take a lot of elbow grease. I restored my ‘55 and I really enjoyed it but it takes time and money (tools and consumables). If you don’t mind the rust bucket look leave the cabinet alone, but you’ll need to give a good cleanup to the top, likely arbor bearings and belts, and possibly cleanup and grease the trunion gears. Motor might need bearings too. I’d say you’re at a minimum of $200 more to get it working properly and smoothly (the seller may not have the standards we have!). $400 more to make it pretty.

If it was me and I wanted it, I’d offer $250 and see what the seller comes back with. Tell him/her how much work you need to do with it.

Before you hand over the cash, check that the motor fires up (and is 1 phase, otherwise add $150 for a vfd), check that the table is flat, height goes fully up and down, and tilt goes all the way. Also check the trunion teeth are all intact.

[John McClanahan]

I have a Powermatic 66 with a 1.5 hp motor. It does everything I need just fine. I had a Craftsman contractor saw and the Powermatic is a huge step up.

I'm thinking sears may lie a bit on the motor's power. I'm basing that on my Craftsman 5 hp air compressor that runs on 120 volts, and a Craftsman 6 hp lawnmower that had a 3 1/2 hp engine on it.

[Don Jarvie]

400 is a good price considering the fence is worth 150 to 200 alone. Clean it up and see how it runs. You can always swap out the motor at some point if you feel it’s underpowered. Even if you still need so put some money into it you will end up with a good saw for reasonable money.

[Grant Aldridge]

I have a Powermatic 66 with a 1.5 hp motor. It does everything I need just fine. I had a Craftsman contractor saw and the Powermatic is a huge step up.

I'm thinking sears may lie a bit on the motor's power. I'm basing that on my Craftsman 5 hp air compressor that runs on 120 volts, and a Craftsman 6 hp lawnmower that had a 3 1/2 hp engine on it.
Considering the front of saw says 3hp and in small text "max developed" yeah I'd say so haha

I'm going Monday to see it in person, if it's functioning and running I'll be bringing it home
Thanks guys!

[Jack Frederick]

Bringing a Unisaw back to life is a great project and you will have a great saw when done. I too, put a Vega fence on mine and did a lot of work with that saw The price is right. I would do it in a heartbeat. When I got mine years back it was rusted pretty badly. I cleaned the top up with WD-40 and a 320 disc on my random orbit polisher. It came back really nicely. That saw is not that old either. The electrics look good. I used the Sawshop in Springfield, MA for parts and info. They were great. I also built a motor cover that I could hang the fence, Accumiter, etc on and added a dust collection port. Some tempered hardboard ramps in the bottom and the dust collection worked very well. Get that saw;)

[scott spencer]

The Unisaw looks to need some TLC, but it's a much more substantial saw with greater potential than your 113, and the Vega fence is excellent. The Delta 1.5hp motor is likely to have a tad more oomph than your 113 motor, but it isn't likely to be a huge difference. In either case, a good quality 3/32" thin kerf blade should be much easier for either motor to spin....lower tooth count, like a 24T ripper will be easier yet. The only Irwin blades I'd even consider on either saw would be their Marples series.

[Phillip Gregory]

It's single phase, you can see a capacitor cover in the picture.

[Grant Aldridge]

Thanks Philip, it's single phase wired for 220, no question on that.

[Derek Cohen]

Grant, take this from an Aussie working with hard West Australian timber - 1.5 hp would be a serious waste of time in my shop. I used 2 hp for 20 years, barely coping, and then upgraded to 3 hp. More recently I purchased a 4 hp Hammer K3, and the difference is night and day.

I get it that the contractor saw is a vintage with a great reputation and an emotional connection. However, as a tool, it would be inadequate for me, and I look at it as a sideways step ... especially considering the amount of work you will need to do to bring it back from the dead. As a restoration project it has appeal (I have restored cars for fun). As a replacement saw, per se, it has limited value. If you do go ahead, factor in the cost of a replacement 3 hp motor.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bruce Wrenn]

Look at the motor name plate. It most likely will be 1.5 HP on 120, and 2.0 HP on 240. Delta down rated motor on 120 to allow the use of a 15 amp plug. This meant it could be used anywhere, as 15 recp. are common in home situations. They did the same on contractor's saws. Often you see someone post that their motor is more powerful on 240, which is BULL.

[Grant Aldridge]

It's single phase, you can see a capacitor cover in the picture.


Look at the motor name plate. It most likely will be 1.5 HP on 120, and 2.0 HP on 240. Delta down rated motor on 120 to allow the use of a 15 amp plug. This meant it could be used anywhere, as 15 recp. are common in home situations. They did the same on contractor's saws. Often you see someone post that their motor is more powerful on 240, which is BULL.
Here's the plate, since it shows 19.2a @115 I doubt that's true, maybe on the older ones?
380395

[Grant Aldridge]

Would I likely find a buyer for the 1.5 motor if I did decide to upgrade? Just wondering

[Alan Schwabacher]

Often you see someone post that their motor is more powerful on 240, which is BULL.

It can be true, but indicates voltage drop due to inadequate wiring for the 120V line, not a difference in the motor itself.

[Mike Chalmers]

Here's the plate, since it shows 19.2a @115 I doubt that's true, maybe on the older ones?
Looks like a pretty strong 1.5hp to me. More like a 2hp.

[Curt Harms]

If dust collection is important, don't forget to factor in a motor cover and some means to attach a hose to the cabinet.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Here's the plate, since it shows 19.2a @115 I doubt that's true, maybe on the older ones?
38039519.2 amps X 115 Volts, divided by 746, equills 2.95 HP if motor was perfect in electric consumption. They aren't, so most likely it's a 2.0 HP motor.

[David L Morse]

19.2 amps X 115 Volts, divided by 746, equills 2.95 HP if motor was perfect in electric consumption. They aren't, so most likely it's a 2.0 HP motor.

You need to include efficiency and power factor in that calculation. From the nameplate efficiency is 72% and power factor 71.8%.

19.2A x 115V x .72 x .718 divided by 746 = 1.53HP

[John McClanahan]

My vote is it's a 2 hp motor. If run on 120 volts, it would trip a 20 amp breaker on startup and would need to be wired for 30 amps. I once ran a 2 hp air compressor on 120 volts, 30 amps with no problems.

[Phillip Gregory]

The motor is rated at 1 1/2 HP by the manufacturer, so it should develop at least 1 1/2 HP but less than 2 HP. There is no reason Delta would intentionally under-rate the motor as horsepower is a big selling point for equipment. The 19.2/9.6 amp rating is closer to that of a newer 2 HP motor but the few 2 HP motors I have seen that can run on 120 volts are 20 amps or more on 120 volts. Most 2 HP motors I have seen are 240 volt only for that reason. However, most 1 1/2 HP motors are dual voltage and the OP's 1 1/2 HP saw being dual voltage makes sense.

[Grant Aldridge]

Well $325 and a half hour of disassembly later it's in the truck!

[Curt Harms]

Well $325 and a half hour of disassembly later it's in the truck!

Good deal! Please remember that pics of the restoration process are welcome.

[Rod Sheridan]

Looks like a pretty strong 1.5hp to me. More like a 2hp.

Mike, motor current doesn't translate into HP in a meaningful way.

The nameplate shows that both efficiency and power factor are .72

115V X 19.2A X .72 X .72 /746 = 1.53 HP.

It's a 19.2 ampere motor with poor efficiency and power factor, so it really is only 1.5HP

regards, Rod.

[Kris Whitman]

That is a nice score. Those older saws are work horses. I personally enjoy bringing a fine machine like that back into top working condition. At the price you paid you can use it for a while and decide if upgrading the motor is necessary. If yes pull that 1.5 and sell it. I went from a 1.5 HP Ridgid contractor saw to a 3 HP Sawstop and I have never looked back. You will really enjoy the cabinet saw.