Wooden storm door project

[Joe Cowan]

I want to build a storm door to match my exterior door that is mostly glass. The top and bottom rails would have to be roughly 8" wide and the styles would be roughly 6". I also want to make the glass removable so I can put a screen panel in during the fall and spring. Just wondering if anyone has built such a door and could offer any advice. I assume QS wood would be the best to avoid possible warp issues. Any thoughts appreciated.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Oak and glass will make for a heavy door. ..Not necessarily a bad thing but something to keep in mind when it comes to hinges and movability.

[Joe Cowan]

Oak and glass will make for a heavy door. ..Not necessarily a bad thing but something to keep in mind when it comes to hinges and compliance, especially when you have your arms full.

I got in touch with a company several years ago, that made a convertible glass/screen storm door and they told me they recommended red oak as the wood. I was surprised as I thought it would be very heavy, especially with the glass inserted seasonally.

[Al Launier]

This might be relevant when determining what wood to use for an exterior door.

From the Internet:


Red oak is a porous, open-grained hardwood which should not be used for outdoor furniture and should only be used for interior pieces such as wood flooring, cabinets, indoor furniture, etc. It has an open structure and the small open capillary tubes can suck in moisture and draw it up several inches into the wood. This open structure make it readily subject to moisture infiltration. Once wet it is hard to dry the lumber and this makes it a victim of rapid decay. Although it has tannin, being wet for long periods make it a victim of fungus and bacterial attack.

This tendency to rot is diminished when the wood is pressure treated. It readily absorbs the treatment because of its open structure. Pressure treated red oak has been used as fence posts and railroad ties and as construction lumber.

It is sometimes possible to see the fairly large pores of the wood.

Red Oak is not very dimensionally stable and will shrink quite a lot.

Because it reacts with iron, screws and other fasteners often stain the wood.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

So I am considering something similar, except that I am looking at doing a pure screen door.

Right now I am looking at using Sapele.

[Joe Cowan]

This might be relevant when determining what wood to use for an exterior door.

From the Internet:


Red oak is a porous, open-grained hardwood which should not be used for outdoor furniture and should only be used for interior pieces such as wood flooring, cabinets, indoor furniture, etc. It has an open structure and the small open capillary tubes can suck in moisture and draw it up several inches into the wood. This open structure make it readily subject to moisture infiltration. Once wet it is hard to dry the lumber and this makes it a victim of rapid decay. Although it has tannin, being wet for long periods make it a victim of fungus and bacterial attack.

This tendency to rot is diminished when the wood is pressure treated. It readily absorbs the treatment because of its open structure. Pressure treated red oak has been used as fence posts and railroad ties and as construction lumber.

It is sometimes possible to see the fairly large pores of the wood.

Red Oak is not very dimensionally stable and will shrink quite a lot.

Because it reacts with iron, screws and other fasteners often stain the wood.



Forgot to mention, this door will never get direct rain unless in a hurricane situation and then very little. However, I will not use red oak.

[Lee Schierer]

You need to insure that the glass in your new door is tempered glass. Code requires that glass in doors be tempered for safety. You will need to special order the piece of glass cut to size as you cannot cut tempered glass.

[Jay Michaels]

I'd use mahogany.

And yes; the glass in a door like that must be tempered.

[Bruce Wrenn]

For the frame, look at both SYP, and cypress. Over at NC woodworker is a guy (Ivey in Burgaw) not far from you who cuts cypress. Make a sub frame to hold glass. For the screen, make similar frame, which would hold screen, also from wood.

[Joe Cowan]

For the frame, look at both SYP, and cypress. Over at NC woodworker is a guy (Ivey in Burgaw) not far from you who cuts cypress. Make a sub frame to hold glass. For the screen, make similar frame, which would hold screen, also from wood.

I have plenty of 2" cypress but it is very soft wood, and I wondered if that would be a problem over time. I also was considering buying 2x10 SYP and cutting the center out and gluing back the QS sides together, to make the rails and styles.

[mark mcfarlane]

You need to insure that the glass in your new door is tempered glass. Code requires that glass in doors be tempered for safety. You will need to special order the piece of glass cut to size as you cannot cut tempered glass.

I am one of the statistics that lead to the tempered glass code. I fell through a storm door when I was 5 years old. Running outside to play, and slipped on a rug in front of the door. Nearly bled out, but had an awesome show-and-tell at kindergarten the day before they removed my stitches.

I'm also one of the statistics for why we now have double insulated oven doors, and why McDonalds doesn't have those large snoot-nosed metal garbage cans next to the drive through, and several others.

My parents said I was an accident looking for a place to happen.

[Mel Fulks]

The soft type of cypress is only rated "moderate" for weather resistance. The heart stuff looks very different and has a much higher rating.

[Mark Bolton]

Late to this one but do you have ventilation considered in the storm door? I only ask because there have been numerous issues in the entry door world over the years with full view glass storm doors which are even only exposed to short bursts of direct sun creating a super hot condition in the space between the storm and the entry door. Your entry door being glass may negate that a bit given the thermal inefficiency.

I would be very concerned with how a glass paneled storm door (thin) would react even over a glass paneled exterior door when one face of the storm gets very hot/dry while the outer face is cool/cold

Many of the newer high end aluminum framed storms incorporate ventilation to allow the the captured heat between the storm and the exterior door to escape. Its seems storm doors in general are no longer really an issue of heating savings as they were in the past but are more so an issue of habbit and a means to hold a screen for people who like to keep their doors open in the times of moderate temps throughout the year. Much of the motivation for venting the space between the storms and door has been because the extreme heat as well as UV magnification can actually kill the exterior finish on the entry door. We have seen several types of paint from latex, to oils, to automotive finishes, to clears, literally cooked right off the main door when a full view glass door is installed.

[Joe Cowan]

This door will be covered and not exposed to direct sunlight or rain so I doubt I would need to ventilate it.

[Mark Bolton]

So is the desire for a storm door to hold a screen? Or to save heat? Or just because you'd like to have one because you always have? Im personally a fan of screen doors in the months they work. In that case I would have a screen door with a pair of drop-on hinges that I put on when it works, and store when not need. If your exterior door is sound and modern-ish the addition of a storm door is likely of little advantage with regards to efficiency and heating and cooling. In a completely sheltered (sun, wind, rain) I guess a storm door could increase the longevity of your exterior door finish.


Its an interesting situation.

[John TenEyck]

This door will be covered and not exposed to direct sunlight or rain so I doubt I would need to ventilate it.

Make sure that is true because Mark's advise is spot on. I just built an wood exterior door with a full panel glass storm door over it. I was worried about problems. Sure enough, not even a month later, in December no less, one of the floating panels cracked. Since then, the other two have as well, as has the lower rail. In Spring I'm going to have to rehab that door or build an entire new one. Whichever way it turns out, I'm going to put vents in the frame of that storm door, top and bottom, to manage the heat build up.

FWIW, the basic frame of the door is fine except for the bottom rail but it's 12" wide. You could very well be OK if your exterior door has a narrow bottom rail. But I'd still vent the storm door unless it gets absolutely no sun.

John

[Peter Christensen]

I made a White Oak screen door that only got sun on it late in the day and rain only when driven by high winds. It was about 8 feet in from the gutters. In use for about 2 dozen years before I took it off to bring here and I will put it on this house this coming spring/summer. For what it's worth I used biscuits to join it together (3/4" thick). I'd go thicker if it has to hold glass.

[Mark Bolton]

I made a White Oak screen door that only got sun on it late in the day and rain only when driven by high winds. It was about 8 feet in from the gutters. In use for about 2 dozen years before I took it off to bring here and I will put it on this house this coming spring/summer. For what it's worth I used biscuits to join it together (3/4" thick). I'd go thicker if it has to hold glass.


A screen door is a completely different animal than a full view glass storm door. A screen door (which I advocated if leaving your doors open and keeping out bugs is the goal in warmer weather) allows complete airflow around not only the screen door (who cares about a screen door) but more importantly your entry door (the thing between you and mother nature and robbers and thieves).

Flimsy pine screen doors from lowes and home depot will last years in a lightly covered environment with production fasteners, no joinery whatsoever.

We are talking about an oak STORM DOOR, with full glass, installed infront of a glass entry door. Completely different animal.

I have walked into homes with finish problems on entry doors on a moderately sunny day and you put your hand on the back of the wood entry door (behind a glass storm) and its hot. The OP says his door is covered and thats a major plus. But reflected light from mere ambient, to snow, to massive rain followed by sun, you'd be surprised the amount of heat that can be captured in that small space.

We recently went to a job where someone had had a steel entry door installed and they thought it was a great idea to have a local body shop spray the steel door with automotive finish. What could be better right? It lasts on your car? They then installed a full view glass storm. No ventilation. The paint on the steel door peeled off in HUGE shards. Im talking flakes curled off the door face that were the size of potato chips and still attached to the door. You could pluck them off and eat them (if they were potato chips) like picking berries off a vine.

The powder coated storm door was fine. Not an issue at all.

[Peter Christensen]

Hi Mark I just want to clear up some things.

I fully understand the difference between a screen door, a storm door and an entry door, so you don't need to school me. Heck two of our doors are glass entry doors and they have, hang on, triple paned glass in them :eek: along with all our windows in the house. Perhaps a palisade and a moat should be part of your next house so you won't have to worry so much about the robbers and thieves.

I mentioned the screen door because it was made of White Oak. A much more rot resistant wood that had not been suggested, and the biscuit joinery it was put together with. It has stood the test of a couple dozen years of getting slammed multiple times a day without the slightest hint of failing. Half laps, Dominoes and proper mortices would be even better. So my answer provided a wood and a possible method of joinery. What I interpreted the OP as asking. You don't need to like it, just don't blast someone like you think they are a dimwit. At no time did I say that venting shouldn't be considered as you already brought it up and I fully agree with you in that it should be done. The OP doesn't seem to want to and that will be on him to decide.

[Joe Cowan]

So is the desire for a storm door to hold a screen? Or to save heat? Or just because you'd like to have one because you always have? Im personally a fan of screen doors in the months they work. In that case I would have a screen door with a pair of drop-on hinges that I put on when it works, and store when not need. If your exterior door is sound and modern-ish the addition of a storm door is likely of little advantage with regards to efficiency and heating and cooling. In a completely sheltered (sun, wind, rain) I guess a storm door could increase the longevity of your exterior door finish

Its an interesting situation.

The entry door it will be fronting is mostly glass and not the best door in my house. I think the ventilation will occur by default. The storm doors appearance will mirror that of the entry door, so I do not worry about the finish. My wife wants breezes in the spring and fall and eastern NC is the bug capital of the free world. I could get by without the glass, but will probably try the glass insert.

[Nike Nihiser]

I would use white oak, much better in weather compared to red oak.

[Mark Bolton]

Hi Mark I just want to clear up some things.

There was no dim-witted-ness whatsoever involved. The white oak is wonderful. Great decision. The issue is a glass panel with no ventilation installed in a wood storm door (or any storm door for that mater) over a wood entry door. I honestly dont know a of a solid wood door, or solid wood door manufacturer (small or factory based), that would make, or warranty their product if it were behind a full view glass storm door be it tightly sealed, loosely sealed, main door is leaky, storm door is leaky, whatever. Anderson, Pella, Peach Tree, local shop, go right on down the list.

Its of no surprise to me that your screen door performed splendidly. It receives nearly 360 degree air flow for drying, the between-the-door-temperatures are never more than a tenth of a degree differential. Its a perfect application for the door you made and installed. A screen door. Well done.

Take that same door an install a glass panel and your screen door will likely potato chip when the sun hits it and the inner face of the screen door hits 30-40% higher temps or more than the outer face (and a screen door is thin). The glue will likely fail in all the jonts given the temps inbetween the two doors. Then imagine what the finish on both the inner face of the screen door and the exterior face of the wood entry door is going to do with such extremes on a daily, or multiple times a day, basis. Its about the glass which is what the original post spoke to directly.

Sorry. But there is a reason why commercial aluminum storm doors as of late all incorporate ventilation. Fiberglass doors cant handle the heat. Wood doors absolutely cant handle the heat. Steel doors and commercial finishes cant handle the heat. And a wood storm door with glass panel is going to have a double whammy. The only hope is your thin storm door potato chips outward to create massive leaks at the sill and head jamb to vent the heat.