Zoning question for those who make things to sell

[Bill Jobe]

Have zoning laws ever become a problem for those of you who make parts and such that you market?

[Bruce Wrenn]

Making them usually isn't a problem, but marketing them at your location most likely would be. We are now in ETJ of local town, but my business is "grandfathered in," as we were here before they were.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Yes- when I was renting an apartment, the landlord wasn't too cool with my boatbuilding on the balcony, but he let it slide because I fixed anything he needed fixed, including his cars. The last straw, however, was when a film crew came to do a story about one of my surfboards that got picked up by a famous surfer, and he said now it's out that I'm working from the apartment. I was given a stern warning. I complied by moving everything inside and keeping the blinds shut. That worked okay except on epoxy days. :-) I now own my home, so it's not an issue.

What woodworkers have to worry about is when they start making noise and upset the neighbors. If the neighbors were to pursue a complaint, they could cause you grief. Also, in my case, when you start laying a keel for a boat, and the neighbors don't appreciate the beauty of a boat under construction as much as you do.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Zoning consists of an incomprehensible language of words in English that have been given artificial bizarre combinations and meanings. It is imposed and administered by those who do not wish the rest of the population to understand the mystery behind such language. that said, the zoning officers for each little township and boro fiefdom are generally less than helpful and keep parroting the phrase, "We are not permitted to give legal advice." One local township will not even tell you what forms you need to file. You can have a grandfathered exception, special exception, hardship exception, except if you are in zone a, residential, except where you have more than five acres. I have heard rumors that in some places, they are helpful, but in general, at least around here, they are in business to screw you. Worse yet, many of them do not even know what is buried in their zoning ordinances. Had a client who was sent a notice that his fence was within ten feet of the property line which was a violation of the zoning. They gave him ten days to appeal or face a $200 per day fine. Of course they sent the notice while he was over seas. Upon actual reading of the section of the rule cited by the zoning officer, there is a clear exception for commercial raising of livestock. The client had been raising beef on his farm for 40 years, his fence was in the same place for 40 years (on the property line) and there was a giant sign in the pasture, along the road that said "Beef for sale by the whole or half" The ten days passed before he got back in town and the zoning officer refused to take a late appeal. So I went to the township meeting with the client and tried to point out the error. The township atty wanted to block letting me talk, saying the legal rememdies had been exhausted, by missing the appeal. I explained that we had an absolute 1st amendment right to address the improper, illegal and unconstitutional actions by the zoning officer. He tried to interrupt, but I kept talking and passed out copies of the zoning section with the exception for farming highlighted. Pointing out that the zoning officer knew the man was out of the country and further how I would file criminal charges against the zoning officer for filing a decision the officer knew was wrong, a misdemeanor under the crimes code. That got the attention of the local newspaper reporter and the Actual Board of supervisors then listened and instructed the zoning officer to rescind the decision.

Zoning laws vary immensely from region to region. My township will let any farm, sell agricultural products on the farm. So if I cut a tree and make a chair, I can sell it from my house, barn, garage and even have a showroom with hundreds of customers coming in daily. If I buy lumber to make and SELL the same chair, I need a zoning variation for a home based business, I have to meet parking area minimums, lighting minumums, I have to comply with signage, etc., A home based business will be granted if their is no customer traffic and less than two outside employees. If I wish a business to which customers come, I need to show a traffic plan concerning number of customers, etc., if the township deems my plan too much traffic, or a disturbance to neighbors, they will refuse the exception. One local home based business was shut down when the stuff he made, and orders, brought three or four trucks to pick up out going shipments per day. Our local noise ordinance is pretty restrictive, except for agricultural operations. I can run a tractor without a muffler 24-7 in the fields, but a guy with a motorcycle on a residential lot, better keep his bike quiet. The zoning rules are only as good as the people drawing them up and adopting them. One local township, here in PA, has a zoning law that makes reference to the "Twin cities Metropolitan Council" Obviously not this local rural backwater place. They just copies the zoning rules from some big city area. One local town passed an ordinance written by it's attorney. It prohibited the owners of dogs from barking between midnight and six am. Pay careful attention to the wording. Many dogs bark between those hours, but the owners of those dogs rarely do. Needless to say, that attorney no longer works for that township.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

^^^ This was amusing- and to some degree disheartening. The only thing worse than zoning laws are neighborhood protective covenants. I recently read an article where a neighborhood required all homeowners to leave their garage doors open from the hours of 8AM to 4PM. Their reason was apparently some homeowners were allowing people to live in their garage. This is how the brainiacs on the board decided to address it.

[John K Jordan]

... Upon actual reading of the section of the rule cited by the zoning officer, there is a clear exception for commercial raising of livestock. ...the Actual Board of supervisors then listened and instructed the zoning officer to rescind the decision.

...I have heard rumors that in some places, they are helpful...


Good for you!

The zoning and codes enforcement guy here is helpful. He even made a point to show me the wording of the county laws on agriculture with special exceptions for agriculture, with or without livestock. As the population increases and more farmland is developed as residential I've heard lots of stories about people unhappy with the farm across the fence.

One of my llama farm friends has a sign on her property to the effect that if you don't like the smells, sounds, and natural procreation behavior associated with livestock then "Don't buy property next to a farm." I suspect the sounds my mini donkeys make when hungry would wake the dead.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

This is an interesting topic for me, given I'm transitioning from an occasional small commission as a hobbyist to a more business focused approach to my woodworking as a "retirement business". I fortunately live in an area where there are many folks who "create" on their residential properties so as long as it's not something "retail", there's little issue with having such a business. Having an apartment to rent is far more difficult!! My neighbor across the street, for example, is a cabinetmaker and his spouse is a professional artist. Their side of the street is zoned "village center" and my side of the street is zoned "agriculture". (go figure) Since clients don't generally visit them, the township really doesn't care much about there being a business on the property. I expect the same here since there will be no foot traffic, no signage and no employees.

That said, liability is always a concern, especially in this day and age, so even if one isn't producing as a formal business "for money", beyond the occasional trinket, it's probably worth talking with one's insurance agent about what is or isn't covered on the existing homeowner's insurance and umbrella relative to these "business" activities. Some homeowner's carriers do include some level of protection for home based hobby businesses; some specifically exclude that. Once my business filings are complete, I'll be having that conversation with my agent for sure.

[Mike Null]

I have been running my small business out of my basement for 20 years. So far no issues. I prefer to ask forgiveness than ask for permission.

I did have an insurance issue several years back when we had lightning strike a tree near the house. The insurance company paid for the damage, more than $2000 including the tree. There was some damage to some of my equipment and they paid that but cautioned me that my homeowners policy would not cover it again. I now have business insurance.

[Malcolm McLeod]

^^^ This was amusing- and to some degree disheartening. The only thing worse than zoning laws are neighborhood protective covenants. I recently read an article where a neighborhood required all homeowners to leave their garage doors open from the hours of 8AM to 4PM. Their reason was apparently some homeowners were allowing people to live in their garage. This is how the brainiacs on the board decided to address it.

I won't (can't!) defend this particular methodology of preventing people from 'living' in a garage, but will simply offer that society tries a myriad of 'stuff' to allow us to peacefully coexist, sometimes via zoning boards, ordinances, or even those consummately evil HOAs:rolleyes:. Maybe people living in garages had become a problem??

I vaguely remember a look at 'unusual' ordinances still on the books in various places. If memory and my funny bone still serve, it is illegal to keep a mule on the second floor of a structure in Atlanta. First pass, leads to giggles and guffaws - what idiot would enact such an ordinance?! But wait... Can't we assume that the city council didn't come to work that day and pose, "What can we enact that's utterly ridiculous? ...hmmmm... I know! Mules on 2nd floors are BANNED!!"

I'd guess that the details are lost to history, but wouldn't it be more plausible that they enacted the ban as a response to a PROBLEM?? I would love to have been a fly on the wall ...."Did you hear about the mule in Mrs. Smith's 2nd floor parlor? It caused a __:mad:__ with a __:(__ on the guest's __;)__ and the neighbor's house got __:o___. Whole block will have to be __:eek:__."
...."Mules on 2nd floors are BANNED!!:cool:"

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, unless the few were there first, and then we'll allow a few basics for a few years, but then the many voters will deem a few basics as many outrages and many carping will become righteous and mighty close to voting me out of office, so finally the many squash .....well, you all probably know the rest.

Bill, I guess the lesson is nothing is a zoning problem, until it becomes a zoning problem.

[Don Orr]

In spite of some of the entertaining and discouraging responses above, it is still most likely your best option to check with your local officials and get their best take on the matter-and get it in writing if possible. Then talk to your insurance folks as well.

[Matt Meiser]

I'd worry a lot more about insurance than zoning. If you don't have a stream of customers driving in no one will care zoning wise unless you have a lot of nosy neighbors. If you have a major claim and the insurance company finds your business address things could get dicey.