Good Square, Reasonable Cost

[Joe O'Leary]

I'm looking for a good square, 18-24", like the Woodpeckers one shown below..
I just don't want to spend THAT much on a square.

Ideas?379880

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Joe,

We are in the same boat only my desire is for one that is ~12" from the edge of the stock to the end of the blade.

Squares of this size do not show up often enough for me to purchase one through ebay.

Most of my squares have been bought second hand.

It seems for me to acquire a square of this size, making my own will be the best or least expensive option.

One suggestion from another member was to use a framing square and install some wooden scales. This would work, but wouldn't meet my desires.

My guess is like me, you want the good looks without the price.

So far in my venture a couple nice pieces of ebony have been bought for the stock.

jtk

[Bill Houghton]

Woodpeckers charges an awful lot for that red anodizing, and you're winding up with an aluminum tool.

If Lee Valley's $80 carpenter's square, which is made to pretty tight tolerances (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32587&cat=1,42936,42944&ap=1) is too rich, look on Amazon for "framing square," and take your pick (Starrett's is just $15 - https://www.amazon.com/Starrett-RS-24-L-Shaped-Rafter-Framing/dp/B0035YJXGK/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1519681065&sr=1-2&keywords=framing+square) and learn how to test and correct any out of square condition.

[Joe O'Leary]

I don't want a framing square, but a large try-square I guess. I want accuracy and durability. 24' is probably too big, now that I think about it 12-18 is probably better for the shop.

Still looking. :)

[Kevin Smira]

Just for reference...the 1281 is on sale right now for $110...and you get a "free" mini square...that's a savings of about $50. Almost makes me want to buy it. I have the 681 and like it very much.

[Tony Wilkins]

I don’t think they have larger than 12” but the combo squares from Harry Eppstein are very well priced and well made from what I hear.

[Hasin Haroon]

You can get a large machinist's square from Lee Valley for a very decent price.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32601&cat=1,42936,42941&ap=1

These are relatively cheap, and excellent...they even take quite a few dings and maintain their accuracy - speaking from experience here.

[lowell holmes]

I have one this size.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Empire-8-in-x-12-in-Steel-Carpenter-Square-100/100148335

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=pty&hsimp=yhs-pty_email&param2=23a20141-fcf6-4299-89f4-cd972799a611&param3=email_2.2~US~appfocus1&param4=d-lp0-bb8~Chrome~8+x+12+carpenter%27s+square&param1=20180115&p=8+x+12+carpenter%27s+square&type=em_appfocus1_cr

[Bruce Haugen]

I have one this size.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Empire-8-in-x-12-in-Steel-Carpenter-Square-100/100148335

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?hspart=pty&hsimp=yhs-pty_email¶m2=23a20141-fcf6-4299-89f4-cd972799a611¶m3=email_2.2~US~appfocus1¶m4=d-lp0-bb8~Chrome~8+x+12+carpenter%27s+square¶m1=20180115&p=8+x+12+carpenter%27s+square&type=em_appfocus1_cr

So do I. Got it at Menards long ago, except it was so long ago it cost $1. It was very close to my Starrett, so a little filing and adjusting made it just right.

[glenn bradley]

I don’t think they have larger than 12” but the combo squares from Harry Eppstein are very well priced and well made from what I hear.

I bought a PEC 24" blade for my combo square which covers 18" with ease. Stores easily out of the way when not in use and comes in very handy when I want it.

379940

[Patrick Chase]

I'm looking for a good square, 18-24", like the Woodpeckers one shown below..
I just don't want to spend THAT much on a square.

Ideas?

Perhaps you merely need to adjust your perspective about what is truly "expensive" (http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/metrology/metrology-products/precision-measuring-tools/squares/Solid-Squares/20-24).

Sorry, I had to go back to that well again.

[Pat Barry]

I'm looking for a good square, 18-24", like the Woodpeckers one shown below..
I just don't want to spend THAT much on a square.

Ideas?379880
Curious why you need such a large square that a plain old framing square won't do the job?

[Patrick Chase]

You can get a large machinist's square from Lee Valley for a very decent price.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32601&cat=1,42936,42941&ap=1

These are relatively cheap, and excellent...they even take quite a few dings and maintain their accuracy - speaking from experience here.

They also sell Shinwa-made Aluminum+steel squares here (http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=32599&cat=1,42936,42941&ap=1). My 12" square is easily within 0.001" over the first 6" (checked against my 6" Starett master square, which is spec'd to 0.0001" per 6").

I also have a 12" Starrett 3020 (http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/3020-12) (their "budget" line, only spec'd to 0.0002" per 6"), but for woodworking I invariably use the Shinwa as it's good enough and I really don't want to drop a "good" square.

FWIW Woodpecker's accuracy spec corresponds to 0.001" per 6". That's a tighter spec than LV claims for the Shinwa, but as noted above my sample is within the Woodpecker's spec.

[Joe O'Leary]

Whoa!!! Everything IS relative! Those WP squares are looking more reasonable now :D.

Perhaps you merely need to adjust your perspective about what is truly "expensive" (http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/metrology/metrology-products/precision-measuring-tools/squares/Solid-Squares/20-24).

Sorry, I had to go back to that well again.

[Bill McNiel]

I bought a PEC 24" blade for my combo square which covers 18" with ease. Stores easily out of the way when not in use and comes in very handy when I want it.

379940

Exactly what I did for my Starrett. It is as accurate as I could ever need.

[steven c newman]

Hmmm, keep an eye out for a Stanley No. 20.....12" try square...

As for WHY use a framing square? some panels are just too wide for your normal squares..
379955379956

[Patrick Chase]

Hmmm, keep an eye out for a Stanley No. 20.....12" try square...

If you can score one of those on a rust hunt then you deserve some sort of award.

[Mike Henderson]

I bought a PEC 24" blade for my combo square which covers 18" with ease. Stores easily out of the way when not in use and comes in very handy when I want it.

379940

Another alternative is the Starrett 8HC combination square. They come up for sale (used) on eBay every now and then at about $100. Search for Starrett Large Combination Square.

Here's a picture of an 8HC with a 24" rule next to a regular 12" combination square.
379957

Mike

[With apologies to Crocodile Dundee: "You call that a combination square? THIS is a combination square!"]

[steven c newman]

Found on the World's Longest Yard Sale last summer...$1

[Patrick Chase]

Whoa!!! Everything IS relative! Those WP squares are looking more reasonable now :D.

In fairness the 12" version of the Starrett is a relative bargain at $700.

W.r.t. the Woodpecker, machining a square out of a solid Aluminum tooling plate strikes me as problematic in two respects. First, they can't adjust squareness after cutting (at least not without re-cutting) as the maker can with traditional 2-piece squares. If that plate has any internal stresses then it may shift on them. They can and probably do mitigate that by using multiple cutting passes to "sneak up" on the final dimensions, but that costs machine time and drives the price up.

Second and on a related note, if you manage to knock the square out of true (say, but dropping it) then there's no possibility of adjusting it as you can with a traditional 2-piece friction-fit machinist's square.

[Bob Leistner]

There is plenty of information out there to make your own from a stable hard wood. Don't let some of these folks steer you to rocket science precision. It's only woodworking.

[Peter Christensen]

In fairness the 12" version of the Starrett is a relative bargain at $700.

W.r.t. the Woodpecker, machining a square out of a solid Aluminum tooling plate strikes me as problematic in two respects. First, they can't adjust squareness after cutting (at least not without re-cutting) as the maker can with traditional 2-piece squares. If that plate has any internal stresses then it may shift on them. They can and probably do mitigate that by using multiple cutting passes to "sneak up" on the final dimensions, but that costs machine time and drives the price up.

Second and on a related note, if you manage to knock the square out of true (say, but dropping it) then there's no possibility of adjusting it as you can with a traditional 2-piece friction-fit machinist's square.

Aluminium tooling plate is not like most other aluminium products like sheet, plate, extrusion etc., in that it is cast and then Blanchard ground flat and to thickness. Because it is cast there is virtually no stress in it so doesn’t move. It is good for making jigs and machine tooling because it doesn’t move, hence the name.

Since the square is machined equally on both sides that also reduces movement. What little there is can be corrected by bending. I’m not interested in one though as there are other squares available that are more than good enough for woodwork.

I bought a cylinder square and with it on a granite surface plate I can verify my squares and if needed correct them. If I choose to make a square of any kind I can do the same.

[Jim Koepke]

As far as my tools go, they are accurate enough so my eye can not see the error. My eyes are still doing well.

If a 6" board is off square by a couple thousandths it most likely isn't going to be visible on the finished piece.

The cost of some of the squares offered in previous links is way above my needs.

jtk

[Dan Hulbert]

I've had good luck with drafting triangles over the years. Perhaps something like this would suit your needs for a fraction of the cost.
https://smile.amazon.com/Westcott-Professional-Triangle-Transparent-P450-16/dp/B01HBIZB02/ref=sr_1_90?ie=UTF8&qid=1519739503&sr=8-90&keywords=drafting+triangles

[Prashun Patel]

I have two of the Starrett Carpenter squares. At 8", I think they are perfect for most marking in the shop. They are cheap and have been good enough for me. I am also a fan of their 36" ruler.

[Brian Holcombe]

I like using a try square, they’re accurate and multipurpose (handy for machine setup and good as a short straight edge). Multiple sizes are nice.

Matsui measure is my go-to they are very accurate and moderately priced (in my opinion).

Outside of that, Vesper is definetly not bargain priced but his work is really worth paying for. You get an excellent product and it supports a small shop craftsperson who is extremely talented.

[James Waldron]

For an 18 inch square, try $43.99, 0.001 over 6 inches: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosmetic-Second-PEC-USA-18-4R-combination-machinist-square-acc-001-6-/151462950700?hash=item2343e5372c

For a 24 inch square, try $52.99, 0.001 over 6 inches: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosmetic-Second-PEC-USA-24-4R-combination-machinist-square-acc-001-6-/151467344264?hash=item2344284188

The accuracy is overkill for woodworking and the price and quality are hard to beat. If you want an old fashioned try square in wood, or wood and brass, in these sizes, you're pretty much limited to shop built versions. Find these in the wild might well be a life's work. They are that rare.

[Mike Henderson]

For an 18 inch square, try $43.99, 0.001 over 6 inches: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosmetic-Second-PEC-USA-18-4R-combination-machinist-square-acc-001-6-/151462950700?hash=item2343e5372c

For a 24 inch square, try $52.99, 0.001 over 6 inches: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosmetic-Second-PEC-USA-24-4R-combination-machinist-square-acc-001-6-/151467344264?hash=item2344284188

The accuracy is overkill for woodworking and the price and quality are hard to beat. If you want an old fashioned try square in wood, or wood and brass, in these sizes, you're pretty much limited to shop built versions. Find these in the wild might well be a life's work. They are that rare.

I have some of the PEC blems and they're very good. The PEC are as good as the Starrett, in my opinion.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

For an 18 inch square, try $43.99, 0.001 over 6 inches: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosmetic-Second-PEC-USA-18-4R-combination-machinist-square-acc-001-6-/151462950700?hash=item2343e5372c

For a 24 inch square, try $52.99, 0.001 over 6 inches: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blem-Cosmetic-Second-PEC-USA-24-4R-combination-machinist-square-acc-001-6-/151467344264?hash=item2344284188

The accuracy is overkill for woodworking and the price and quality are hard to beat. If you want an old fashioned try square in wood, or wood and brass, in these sizes, you're pretty much limited to shop built versions. Find these in the wild might well be a life's work. They are that rare.

The first problem for me with those is both of them show a 12" square. My suspicions are always raised by a listing where the seller can not be bothered to post an actual picture of the product.

Second, maybe Joe, the OP of this thread, is like me and prefers the try square style over a combination square style tool. Though he may be looking for something that is definitely more difficult to find than what my hunt entails.

There is a nice 14" Bridge City model on ebay currently at $127.50 with 5 days to go. It is possibly worth every penny of what it will end up at the close of the auction. In my case there are not that many pennies in my piggy bank.

Also in my case it will likely be easier to just build my own. It may run me $50 in acquiring the parts, but it will be worth every bit as much as any that are likely to cross my path in the time it takes me to get a round tuit.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

I asked OP why he wanted such a large square in the first place and no response. In my mind there are very few drivers for such a tool. A framing square serves the purpose very nicely. In fact, such a large try square is a waste of money. So again, why is such a large square needed?

[Patrick Chase]

The first problem for me with those is both of them show a 12" square. My suspicions are always raised by a listing where the seller can not be bothered to post an actual picture of the product.

In general I agree, but in this in stance both Taylor Toolworks (the seller) and PEC (the manufacturer) are reputable enough that I wouldn't be concerned.

0.001" per 6" is a tight spec for a combo square. Combos are more challenging than fixed squares (the best of which are 10x more accurate) because of the nature of the sliding interface. My Starrett combos (I have two) are both within that, but none of the other less expensive combos that have passed through my shop have been that good. Of course double squares are more challenging still because of the shorter baseline, and yet my Vesper is down at <0.0005" per 6"

[Patrick Chase]

I asked OP why he wanted such a large square in the first place and no response. In my mind there are very few drivers for such a tool. A framing square serves the purpose very nicely. In fact, such a large try square is a waste of money. So again, why is such a large square needed?

IMO a larger square like that that's still smaller than a framing square is useful for things like measuring the interior squareness of casework. With squares bigger is better, both because it covers more of the length of the workpiece and because it's easier to detect errors, but too big is inconvenient, particularly for interior measurements.

"Useful" is not the same thing as "necessary" though. It all depends on how much you're willing to pay to have the best possible tool on hand.

[Frederick Skelly]

I have some of the PEC blems and they're very good. The PEC are as good as the Starrett, in my opinion.

Mike

I agree Mike. Very satisfied with PEC blems. I get mine at Harry Epstein.

Unfortunately, all they have in a 12" right now is this set (https://www.harryepstein.com/index.php/6-pc-machinist-solid-square-set.html). The big one is 12"....

[Lee Schierer]

look on Amazon for "framing square," and take your pick (Starrett's is just $15 - https://www.amazon.com/Starrett-RS-24-L-Shaped-Rafter-Framing/dp/B0035YJXGK/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1519681065&sr=1-2&keywords=framing+square) and learn how to test and correct any out of square condition.

The reviews of that Starrett framing square are not very impressive regarding the quality and acuracy.

[Jim Koepke]

I asked OP why he wanted such a large square in the first place and no response. In my mind there are very few drivers for such a tool. A framing square serves the purpose very nicely. In fact, such a large try square is a waste of money. So again, why is such a large square needed?

My framing square gets used often because there isn't a large enough try square in my shop to mark a 1X12. A combination square with a 12" rule comes up short.

Joe may have missed your question or simply didn't have an inclination to type out a response. To me it also seems rather large, but if one that size were in my shop it would get used regularly.

Out here on the west coast we mostly have fir available in the big box stores. Most hard woods are almost exotic species. What is available on the east coast is likely totally different. Only Joe knows what he works with in his shop. It may even be plywood. :eek:

There are a few mills here where boards wider than 12" can be found.

It is kind of like chisels. Often people advise others they will likely never need a chisel bigger than 1". My 1-1/4" chisels and 1-1/2" chisels get used quite often.

Someone making small boxes may never need one bigger than 1/2". To this person it may seem crazy there are about a dozen chisels of various types and sizes wider than 1" in my shop.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

0.001" per 6" is a tight spec for a combo square. Combos are more challenging than fixed squares (the best of which are 10x more accurate) because of the nature of the sliding interface. My Starrett combos (I have two) are both within that, but none of the other less expensive combos that have passed through my shop have been that good. Of course double squares are more challenging still because of the shorter baseline, and yet my Vesper is down at <0.0005" per 6"

That spec seemed tight enough that I decided to check, and PEC's website doesn't list an angular accuracy spec for the combo squares. Neither does Starrett for that matter. Both manufacturers provide such specs for their solid squares. I wouldn't take that spec to the bank just yet, though if they're taking time to keep the parts cool during machining then there's no reason they wouldn't be able to hit it (as my Starrett and Vesper squares do).

[Joe O'Leary]

I asked OP why he wanted such a large square in the first place and no response. In my mind there are very few drivers for such a tool. A framing square serves the purpose very nicely. In fact, such a large try square is a waste of money. So again, why is such a large square needed?
When working with plywood sheets, I want a lip for the true straight side. Framing square doesn’t have that.
You’ll notice in an earlier reply that I also downsized my request.

[steven c newman]

Framing squares do not need a lip. Set them so the 16" leg hangs over the edge....then use the "inside" of the 24" leg to mark your line.

[steven c newman]

Some on here need to go and watch how a real Framer uses his framing square.....and NO, it does not need a "lip" on the edge....

[steven c newman]

I use mine to square the ends of panels I glue up....

OP wanted his for use on plywood....

[James Pallas]

I use stair gauges on my 30 year old Stanley aluminum rafter square a lot. You do have to check it when you put the gauges on. It is more than adequate for woodworking. I also have a 24" rule for my combo that is used but not as often as the framing square with gauges. You can also make a wood lip and screw it to the edge of a rafter square. Again you have to check the square after installing the lip. I have another steel rafter square for use outside the shop for rougher work.
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

When working with plywood sheets, I want a lip for the true straight side. Framing square doesn’t have that.
You’ll notice in an earlier reply that I also downsized my request.

For plywood you may want to reconsider downsizing your request. (i.e. stick to your original thought. Only you can decide what will work best for your work.) There are also larger squares specifically for working with and marking plywood.


Framing squares do not need a lip. Set them so the 16" leg hangs over the edge....then use the "inside" of the 24" leg to mark your line.


I use stair gauges on my 30 year old Stanley aluminum rafter square a lot. You do have to check it when you put the gauges on. It is more than adequate for woodworking. I also have a 24" rule for my combo that is used but not as often as the framing square with gauges. You can also make a wood lip and screw it to the edge of a rafter square. Again you have to check the square after installing the lip. I have another steel rafter square for use outside the shop for rougher work.
Jim

Been there done that and it is awkward. Sometimes my drafting T-square is used on wider panels, still awkward.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

One feature seen on a lot of larger try squares is the little fin on the stock:

380079

That makes it a lot more convenient than a framing square.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

One feature seen on a lot of larger try squares is the little fin on the stock:

Hey, it's the missing evolutionary link between an ordinary try square and a speed square.

[Stanley Covington]

If you can get by with 12" (11.9"), try the Matsui Precision SY-30 precision square. Very accurate, and hardened (very unusual) stainless steel, so durable. It has a thicker tongue for indexing off an edge.

http://www.diy-tool.com/shop/item/diy/picture/goods/232/232344_1.jpg

Amazon lists it for ¥13, 695. Other sites have it for ¥12,096. Not cheap, but worth the cost in my experience.

This URL links to the specs. http://www.matsui-seimitsu.co.jp/pdf/sukoya1.pdf

Matsui Seimitsu's products are not fancy, not anodized, and definitely not aluminum in hooker-heels. Very high-quality working tools.

[Curt Harms]

I use stair gauges on my 30 year old Stanley aluminum rafter square a lot. You do have to check it when you put the gauges on. It is more than adequate for woodworking. I also have a 24" rule for my combo that is used but not as often as the framing square with gauges. You can also make a wood lip and screw it to the edge of a rafter square. Again you have to check the square after installing the lip. I have another steel rafter square for use outside the shop for rougher work.
Jim

I bought a borg framing square after grabbing several and checking one against another on as flat a surface as I could find. I figured if two agreed, they'd have to be out of square the same amount and in opposite directions. That seemed pretty unlikely. I bolted 1/4" thick wood pieces on either side of the shorter blade with the wood extending slightly beyond the metal. I then scraped the wood until it was flush with the metal. I checked the result using the 'draw a line, flip the square and draw a parallel line' test. It seems close enough for my purposes.

[George Bokros]

I have put stair gauges on the short arm of the framing square to serve what Curt did and they work fine for that purpose also.

[Todd Stock]

Chappell has 3x4, 9x12, 12x18, and 18x24 inch stainless 'framing' style squares. The smaller sizes are intended as bench squares for cabinetmakers, and the larger as framing tools. Accuracy is .003" over the long leg. Grads are in .050"/ 1/20 of an inch (decimal inches) which I prefer to work in for easy conversions and best accuracy on layout tasks like fretboard slotting. The Shinwa small framing squares are nice as well, although a traditional stocked tool that will stand up is nice to have (I've kept a Marples Shockproof through 40+ years of use for that reason). The 9" x 12" Chappell is about $56 delivered.

[Rob Luter]

I have a number of squares, but in the size you're after a 12" Starrett combo square and a 16" Empire combo square check the boxes in my shop. I got the Starrett set with the centering tool and protractor at an estate auction for super cheap. It was a very gloatworthy find. The Empire came from the Borg and is just as accurate as the Starrett for 99% of what I do for less than 10% of the new Starrett price.

http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/metrology/metrology-products/precision-measuring-tools/squares/combination-squares/C434-12-16R

http://www.empirelevel.com/combo-squares.php

[James Waldron]

[snip]

There is a nice 14" Bridge City model on ebay currently at $127.50 with 5 days to go. It is possibly worth every penny of what it will end up at the close of the auction. In my case there are not that many pennies in my piggy bank.

[more snip]

jtk

Or you could buy a new one for $225 if that's what fits your budget.

In my case, investing in art to go in my tool cabinet is not happening; I don't have room in there for works of (working) art. If I need a try square, I'll build my own, thanks much. And I'm looking forward to a post when you get your tuit, Jim. It should be instructive for many of us to follow along.

And by the way, about the photos on the e-bay site for the PEC combination squares, I've found the Taylor folks good to deal with and very reliable at providing what they advertise on ebay. I even broke down and bought one of their marking gauges that some folks object to. Works just fine, although it is not a work of art.

[Pat Barry]

When working with plywood sheets, I want a lip for the true straight side. Framing square doesn’t have that.
You’ll notice in an earlier reply that I also downsized my request.
Yes, you are correct about no lip on the framing square, but the way the tool normally gets used is to have it tipped slightly so that you can use the edge of the tool to pick up the edge of the board and get a good reference. This isn't hard to do either. Note: if you have a framing square you can do this easily to mark a perpendicular line referenced with the tool facing to the left and right on a known straight edge. If the two marked lines diverge the tool is out of square by 1/2 the deviation over the distance marked. There are ways to punch the framing square and correct the error.

[Joe O'Leary]

Been there done that and it is awkward. Sometimes my drafting T-square is used on wider panels, still awkward.
jtk

Thanks, Jim. That's what I was trying to say. Lots of great suggestions here. I try not to react to comments like "Some on here need to go and watch how a real Framer uses his framing square.....and NO, it does not need a "lip" on the edge....", but it's hard :p

[Joe O'Leary]

OK, Pat, I have to admit that you framing guys are starting to convince me. I'll try it out. Thanks.

[Pat Barry]

OK, Pat, I have to admit that you framing guys are starting to convince me. I'll try it out. Thanks.

Its a pretty cheap solution and that's a good thing
I

[Peter Christensen]

A little pricey :eek: but Starrett 439-18 (http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/439-18) or 439-24 (http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/439-24) Builders Combination Tools are pretty nice to work with. I have had my 24" for about 30 years.

[Jim Koepke]

At times, if having to use a framing square a lot, a piece of scrap a touch thinner than the wood being worked is set along the workpiece and used to support the reference leg of the framing square.

380109

The small framing square has stair gauges attached to make it useable as a try square. As someone mentioned on this it is important to check often to make sure they haven't been bumped out of place.


In my case, investing in art to go in my tool cabinet is not happening; I don't have room in there for works of (working) art. If I need a try square, I'll build my own, thanks much. And I'm looking forward to a post when you get your tuit, Jim. It should be instructive for many of us to follow along.

With many other things going on it may be awhile, hopefully by mid summer. Maybe making a shopping list for items that can be purchased locally might get me moving along.

One of the things to hit me last night while looking for squares on that auction site was to do something decorative or unique with the brass plate for holding the rivets securing the blade.

jtk