What's so special about the Festool C 12 cordless drill?

[Christian Aufreiter]

Good morning folks,

Having owned (ok, I admit it belongs to my dad – but never mind) and used a Festool CDD 12 cordless drill driver for more than three years I was rather sceptical when I first saw the new Festool C12. My initial thoughts were, “It’s a nice tool but what’s so special about it compared to the CDD 12?”
Now that I’ve read Rick Christopherson’s technical review of the C 12 (http://www.festoolusa.com/whats_new_details.aspx?docid=357) I realized that this cordless drill really uses outstanding technology.
Thanks to Rick for translating sophisticated technical information into a more understandable language.

Regards,

Christian

[Frank Pellow]

Thanks for pointing this out Christian. The article is very technical and the engineer in me reaaly enjoyed reading it. :)

On the other hand, the woodworker in me would have liked to see more about applications of the drill :( and the consumer in me would have liked it better if Rick had published the comparisons to other drills that he alluded to :( .

It does sound like Festool has rissen to the top again with another great inovation!

[Richard Wolf]

I have the new 12 volts with the high proformance battery and I find it almost useless drilling large holes (3/4 inch in oak). It is high tech in it's electronics, but I still use my 18 volt dewalts. I think that anyone should really keep in mind that as good as Fesstool stuff is, 12 volts is 12 volts and maybe I expected to much from it.
I would really like to see Fesstool come out with a corded drill. It's not like their in the cordless market with anything else.

Richard

[Christian Aufreiter]

I have the new 12 volts with the high proformance battery and I find it almost useless drilling large holes (3/4 inch in oak). It is high tech in it's electronics, but I still use my 18 volt dewalts. I think that anyone should really keep in mind that as good as Fesstool stuff is, 12 volts is 12 volts and maybe I expected to much from it.

I haven't used the C12 but I tend to agree - different tools for different applications. As much use you find for a 18 V drill as useless it is to me. For example, I just bought a small 10.8 V cordless driver because it's weighs a lot less than the CDD but still covers most of my driving jobs.

http://home.eduhi.at/user/holzwerkstatt/index.htm/pictures.htm/GSR-CDD/GSR01.JPG

http://home.eduhi.at/user/holzwerkstatt/index.htm/pictures.htm/GSR-CDD/GSR-CDD01.JPG

The Bosch weighs approx. 1.7 lbs compared to the Festool with 4 lbs. (According to my kitchen scales.)

BTW, I've seen drill bits that were particularly designed for the use with cordless drills. They seem to allow less power consuming drilling.



I would really like to see Fesstool come out with a corded drill.

Why's that? How about a Fein (http://feinus.com/) corded drill? I just love mine.

@ Frank:
I'm absolutely sure that you already know a lot about the applications of this and other Festools. :D And apparently Rick chose the title technical review.

Regards,

Christian

[Jim Becker]

Whether you buy/want/covet the new Festool drill or not, there is certainly a lot to appreciate about the technology they brought to the small electric tool market with it. Hopefully, there will be more innovation like this in what has been essentially an "unexciting" landscape...colors and case decorations change, batteries get a little better, etc., but there frankly hasn't been a whole lot of new technology in the motor department until now. Of course that's not unique to tools. While Fisher-Paykel has done some incredible things with small motor technology in the appliance world (the dish drawer dishwashers, for example) most other vendors stick to the commodity route. I hope that the world gets smarter and demands technology that provides more work while using less resources to accomplish it!

[Rick Christopherson]

I have the new 12 volts with the high proformance battery and I find it almost useless drilling large holes (3/4 inch in oak). It is high tech in it's electronics, but I still use my 18 volt dewalts. I think that anyone should really keep in mind that as good as Fesstool stuff is, 12 volts is 12 volts and maybe I expected to much from it.
I would really like to see Fesstool come out with a corded drill. It's not like their in the cordless market with anything else.

Richard
Richard, I couldn't state this in the article, but I can state it on a forum: I hate to tell you, but it is the DeWalts that smoked during my tests--all three of the models I tested, including a 14.4 and two 18-volt drills (two of which were the new XRP).

You are comparing apples to oranges. The 12 volt C12 carries as much torque as other non-DeWalt 18-volt drills. The only reason the DeWalts had a higher torque curve is because they drive more current through the motor than it can safely handle.

The C12 does not use the same type of motor as any other drill, so you cannot compare this drill with others merely on the basis of voltage.

I don't think you read my review before you made your posting, so I would invite you to do so. Either that, or you are confusing the CDD12 with the new C12. They are NOT the same! Not even close!

[Rick Christopherson]

And Rick (Festool) claims that it is a technical review.
Christian, As a writer I appreciate you starting this thread about my article, but I want to make it clear that I do not represent Festool, and they did not pay me for this write up. When you added the Festool in parentheses behind my name, you made it seem as though I was a Festool representative.

I chose the title of "technical review" because I didn't want to get into the normal conclusions of a product review. I started this document with the intention that it would probably be a sales-training sheet for resellers. It was only during the final re-write that the article became something that could be published to general buyers.

[Christian Aufreiter]

Christian, As a writer I appreciate you starting this thread about my article, but I want to make it clear that I do not represent Festool, and they did not pay me for this write up. When you added the Festool in parentheses behind my name, you made it seem as though I was a Festool representative.

Sorry, Rick. That was not my intention. I simply didn't know if Festool asked you to write a technical review or if they asked you to write a review and you wrote a technical one or if you wrote the review and Festool chose the title technical review afterwards. That was what I wanted to express by adding Festool in parentheses. I'll edit my previous post and correct it.

Sorry.

Christian

[Frank Pellow]

I have the new 12 volts with the high proformance battery and I find it almost useless drilling large holes (3/4 inch in oak). It is high tech in it's electronics, but I still use my 18 volt dewalts. I think that anyone should really keep in mind that as good as Fesstool stuff is, 12 volts is 12 volts and maybe I expected to much from it.
I would really like to see Fesstool come out with a corded drill. It's not like their in the cordless market with anything else.

Richard
Richard, is it really the C12 model that you have, or is it the CDD 12?

I would not have expected any battery powered drill to drill 3/4 inch holes through oak. I just naturally use my drill press or my DeWalt corded drill for such applications. But I will now try it with my TDK 12 CE and see what happens.

[Frank Pellow]

...
@ Frank:
I'm absolutely sure that you already know a lot about the applications of this and other Festools. :D And apparently Rick chose the title technical review
And, it's an absolutely appropriate title that Rick chose.

[Richard Wolf]

Okay, so I have the C12 with the BPS 12 (S NIMH)Battery. Maybe I missed the information from the Fesstool Rep that was in the store at the time of purchase, but I was under the impression that this was the drill I needed to do the job.
As far as the Dewalts 18 volt XRP smoking I would believe it, but I have three and they seem to be the only drill which seems to be somewhat dependable. My default choice is alway a corded drill, it's my son that wants the cordless.
I realize installing railings with cordless drills and drivers is pushing the limits of current technology but sometimes the convienence sucks us in.
Back to the point, is there a better Fesstool drill for my needs or not?

Richard

[Frank Pellow]

I have always used a corded drill for work like this in the past, but I was curious so I tried it.

I used a 3/4 inch spade bit and drilled 10 holes through 3 inch oak. I went slowly and the average time per hole was 45 seconds.

[Scott Parks]

If I understand correctly, the new C12 has a brushless motor. When comparing to new R/C airplane technology, you can buy brushless electric motors. They are about 4x more expensive, and produce A LOT more torque then the old wound/brushed motors. Coupled with a LiPoly battery, they last a long time.

If the drill operates on this idea, I would bet that it kicks butt.... I have not read the reveiw, because then I probably would want one. But otherwise, my CDD 12 does the job. If it won't, then I pull out the corded drill (which I have not had to do yet, except for drilling pocket holes at high speed).

[Chris Barton]

Popular Woodworking just published a review of "14 v" drills and rated the Dewalt DC983KA, Makita 6339DWDE and Panasonic EY6432GQKW as their "Editor's Choce" winners and the Milwaukee 0612-22 as the "Best Value" winner. Interestingly, they included the Festool 15.6 v TDK 15.6 CE in the review and while they liked it, it didn't stack up in their opinion due to price.

[Jim Becker]

I have always used a corded drill for work like this in the past, but I was curious so I tried it.

I used a 3/4 inch spade bit and drilled 10 holes through 3 inch oak. I went slowly and the average time per hole was 45 seconds.

Yes, it will do that, Frank. But Richard's business involves hundreds of these suckers in a short period of time...IMHO, that's a bit much for any cordless unless you have a pile of batteries ready to go. I think he has realistic expectations and if I were doing what he does, I'd use the corded drill for most of the work and keep the cordless for when the convenience is necessary and appropriate.

[Rick Christopherson]

There are a bunch of comments I would like to make, so instead of multiple posts, I will jam them into one. First off, I really appreciate hearing the comments about my review document itself. It means I met my own goals.

Christian, No need to apologize. I just wanted it to be clear that this is not a Festool document. Here's how it started: At the AWFS show in July, I realized that most of the Festool-USA people did not understand the new technology, and after a few minutes of examining the cutaway and some specification documents, I was explaining it to them. When the marketing director asked if I would explain the C12 to a visiting magazine editor, I got the idea to write a description of the drill for internal use to Festool (thinking it would have too much proprietary information). When Festool-Germany didn't balk at the content, the document was reworked for public consumption, and I added the "technical review" to the title to distinguish it from a product review.

Frank, Funny you mention spade bits. When I made the statement about the gearbox being bulletproof, this is exactly what was going through my mind as I wrote it. Years ago, I broke the gear teeth on two of my old Bosch drills when a spade bit caught in the wood. The planetary gearbox wouldn't break under the same conditions.

As for continually driving 3/4 inch holes, this is what's going to make many motors overheat. However, this is going to overheat ALL batteries, and for that reason, I wouldn't do it with any cordless drill. If you tried this with a C12, the C12 will shut down to protect the battery from abuse. Another drill would let you drill these holes, but you are shortening the battery life in the process.

[Richard Wolf]

As for continually driving 3/4 inch holes, this is what's going to make many motors overheat. However, this is going to overheat ALL batteries, and for that reason, I wouldn't do it with any cordless drill. If you tried this with a C12, the C12 will shut down to protect the battery from abuse. Another drill would let you drill these holes, but you are shortening the battery life in the process.


That is exactly what is happening. Jim is right about the fact that I abuse tools out of nessecity for speed. I realize that in the end I must pay for this abuse, but the reality is that is a trade off I am willing to make. My upgrading to Fesstool was in hopes of prolonging the end result and it is hard not to be satisfied with the quality of their tools, but I'll have to continue with the smoking Dewalts for now. Actually, I haven't smoked any batteries, but have shorten their lives some.

Richard

[Dan Oelke]

I don't put a lot of faith in tool reviews by Consumer Reports - but it was interesting that the latest issue does a review of a lot of different cordless drills/drivers. They had a note about the new Milwaukee 28v drills and that they burned up 3 of them doing their tests. Yikes! I suspect for many people they won't use them hard enough long enough to do that, but so much power without enough heat disapation surface can be an issue.

[Frank Pellow]

I don't put a lot of faith in tool reviews by Consumer Reports.
...

Why do you say that? It rust their reviews of most things more than reviews in "conventional" magazines.

I did read the drill review and thought that was fair and that it offered good advice. But, I was dissapointed that Consumer Reports did not include any Festool drill in their review..