Cermark - does laser power make a difference in darkness?

[Brent Franker]

Hey Guys!

Inexperienced laser guy here. I did some searching and reading for about an hour but didn't see any specifics to what I'm trying to determine. :)

I had been using some marking chemical I bought it 4 or 5 years ago off eBay. Was less than $30 for 4oz. It was from Color Laser Productions. It worked pretty good I thought but is no longer available. I sometimes don't turn on my laser for a couple months at a time so am no expert on this stuff! Anyway, I was looking for a replacement because I'm going to be doing several stainless Yeti cups here in the future. I bought some Cermark and did some testing. What I was really shocked about is that it looks good but is not as BLACK as the cheapo stuff I was using??? I was shocked because I thought Cermark was "the best".

Anyway, before I spend a lot of time doing different tests and maybe wasting material, if your power is not dead on right, can it affect the "blackness" of the marking? I did two Yeti cups and it looks pretty nice but when I compared it to the same logo I did on another cup using the cheap marking stuff from eBay, it was just ever so slightly not as black. I *thought* if the power wasn't right it just didn't work... meaning it would stick or would be terrible. Just wondering if I spend time playing with the power will it change the darkness of the marking? Also, does too much power make it not as "crisp"? It seemed like the Cermark didn't give quite the detail as the cheap eBay stuff... but close. I'm using an Epilog 75 watt laser and had it on 100% power and 60% speed. Tried 50% speed too and no noticeable difference.

Thanks!

[Kev Williams]

Cermark likes 'heat soak', which is to say, slower engraving is preferable to higher speed engraving. With 75 watts, you'll probably get the best results at around 60% power and running at 12-14 inches per second, with Y axis res between 500 and 600 lines per inch. Cermark has changed their formula a couple of times, I don't believe the current formula is as black as it used to be, but I'm happy with it. 'Charcoal' is the best description I have of the color, it won't go 'jet black'.

This doesn't pertain to you since you have an Epy, but as an aside; in my experience, Cermark very much prefers RF lasers (synrad, etc) to Chinese DC glass lasers. I bought my 80w Chinese Triumph expressly to do Cermark on stainless faster. But not only is it not faster, I can't get an acceptable marking: if it looks good, it's not fused to the metal enough, and if it IS fused enough, it's not even close to 'black', it's more of a dark gray with bronze overtones. Now, if I never had an RF laser to compare it with, I'd likely be happy with it, but I do, so I'm not :) But there is silver lining, my Triumph Cermark's brass and aluminum wonderfully.

[Mike Null]

I am testing a brand of marking chemical called Enduramark. They have reformulated the paste since their original samples were sent out. The new version seems to be thicker than Cermark which means that you'll get as much usable chemical as Cermark or even more. The density (blackness) is very good.

The best part is that it's considerably cheaper than Cermark. I can't post recent pictures as they are all customer logos.

I paid 99.00 for 250 grams; Cermark is 154.95 for the same amount.

https://enduramark.com/

[Kev Williams]

so you're liking the Enduramark? I got the test bottles when they were on sale... 3 things I found were: for one, the thicker the solution on the stainless, the darker black it was, which is good. But two, I found I couldn't keep the thickness of the solution consistent when brushing on, which meant I got varying degrees of black within the same text or graphic I was testing, which is bad. Cermark flows and levels out very evenly. I found the Endurmark didn't flow whatsoever. Spraying would make for more consistency, but I'm not sure I could spray consistently enough- I routinely cover 1 to 4-1/2 sq.ft. stainless panels, which I can do very fast with a 2" foam brush, and cheaper because spraying big panels I found I was using almost twice as much because of overspray.

That all said, I've been tempted to get some more Enduramark because it HAS been improved and maybe I can make better use of it now, but more importantly, the 3rd thing I found out when testing it: It actually goes BLACK when testing with my Triumph! Cermark simply isn't anywhere near as black via my glass-tube Triumph as the black my Synrad RF equipped machines produce. It's 'off-black' enough that I won't sell it in most cases. Valve tags that will live their lives in mine shafts, okay, but an operator panel that has aesthetic as well as functional value, nope.

Not being able to run stainless in the Triumph has always been a bottleneck for me. Maybe it's time to get a small bottle of the new and improved Enduramark.

[Doug Fisher]

Mike - that is interesting to hear they reformulated. Is the black significantly blacker and is it less prone to scuffing and damage after it dries? How are you applying it?

Thanks!

[Mike Null]

Doug

I am still in the process of testing Enduromark and it's not scientific. The density of black seems to be the same as Cermark. As far as scuffing, my guess is that it may be more prone to scuffing. I apply it with a sponge brush and do not feel that it goes on as evenly as Cermark but I need to do more testing with it. It seems to be slightly slower drying. I'm using dna.

A good bit of my business requires a coating such as this so for me to really get behind it it will need to be superior in all aspects of the process. Price is important but not if I can't get efficiency and quality. Stay tuned.

I have never had any success with Cermark on brass or aluminum so I want to see if Enduromark will work. I have a new laser with 80 watts of power against the 45 watts of my previous machine so that will probably have some bearing on my results.

[Doug Fisher]

Thanks for the feedback, Mike. I am glad to know they have improved the black. Competition is good to keep everyone improving their product. Please post your final impressions after you have finished your testing.

Have you tried LaserBond for your aluminum and brass testing? I have not tried it on either one so I can't provide any user feedback but they do list those as compatible materials and have suggested settings in their chart. If you are tempted, they sent me a link yesterday for a discount price special they are running that I will pass along (I don't have any affiliation with the company, just passing along the link):

http://laserbondingtech.com/apa-special-2018/lbt-special-order.html

[Brent Franker]

Thanks, guys! I'll try some experimenting and will keep the laser on the material a little longer and slow it down a bit. I might have some of the newer Cermark because I ordered it a few months ago so it's possible that maybe what I'm seeing is just as good as it is going to get with this product. :)

[Ryan R Huddleston]

Hey Mike,
We are crossing paths all over the place :) We have had great success marking uncoated Brass plates, as well as the Brass bullet shells, and Aluminum with our Enduramark Black formulation. These are softer metals that dissipate heat better than stainless steel so in general speeds need to be slower for these metals.

[Mike Null]

I will definitely test brass as I often have opportunities to mark it that I have previously passed on.