Squares, just squares...

[steven c newman]

In the process of clearing all the stuff off my bench, and putting the toys away....found I had a nice Selection of these things...
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Bigger one is a Stanley No. 20...The two combos I found..
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Both by Swanson...more for setting a depth of cut. The two rulers? One is from "Empire" (?) the other is a Starrett No. _001 (?). Has a LOT of different scales on it...14/28 of an inch?
Even cleaned out the tool well....and then swept it as well....it was 1/2 tools..1/2 shavings and dust..
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So..now I can put the squares to good use, on a cleaned up bench.
Squares? I think I MIGHT have that area of tools covered?:rolleyes:

[Jim Koepke]

Nice bunch of squares. This is my latest image of all of mine:

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A few more have crawled out of the woodwork. My quest for a square will not be finished until there is one in my shop that can mark all the way across a 1X12. Currently it seems my only way to fulfill this desire is to make one myself.

The wood is in hand. More brass is needed and then finding a blade may be the difficult part.

jtk

[steven c newman]

That Stanley No. 20 will indeed reach across a 1 x 12...

There are squares, and there are...squares...
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Now..IF I can just read all of that..
.379490
They might come in handy, if I was building a new shop...
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Careful going to the shop....that isn't called a header for nothing....shoulder level to me...

[James Waldron]

Nice bunch of squares. This is my latest image of all of mine:

379485

A few more have crawled out of the woodwork. My quest for a square will not be finished until there is one in my shop that can mark all the way across a 1X12. Currently it seems my only way to fulfill this desire is to make one myself.

The wood is in hand. More brass is needed and then finding a blade may be the difficult part.

jtk

There are options on ebay

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for the options Jim.

My desire is for a standard wooden handled Try Square. Kind of like Steven's Stanley #20. The 18" steel rule in the second link might be a good solution, but my hopes are to find some metal that will lend a more traditional appearance.

jtk

[James Waldron]

I'm a proponent of shop built tools and I'd never think to dissuade you. I do think in this case, tho', you're facing a long search unless you go for precision ground flat bar stock in brass/steel/aluminum/bronze/etc. They are available; try:

https://www.onlinemetals.com/index.cfm
https://www.hudsontoolsteel.com/site
https://www.mcmaster.com/#metals/=1bokhw5

I've had very good results with Online Metals for my efforts. The are a subsidiary of Thyssen-Krupp, have several warehouses around the country, good prices and good, prompt service. I've much less experience with Hudson Tool Steel and haven't used McMaster-Carr for metals, but I certainly have for other things. Last time I checked, their prices were less attractive for bar stock than Online Metals.

Have fun; when you're done, show your work.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for the links Jim. Most likely order from one of those if the local suppliers do not have something to fit my desires.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Jim, what you clearly need is the undisputed King of Squares: http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/20-24

How can your woodworking be as precise as befits such a notoriously stable material without a square that's accurate to 0.0001" (1/10 mil) per 6"? How can you ever be sure that your joinery isn't misfit because of the arrow and not the archer unless you use a $2000 guaranteed-straight arrow?

Accept no substitutes!

PS: I have a 55-6 master square, but I mostly used it on things made of metal.

[James Waldron]

Jim, what you clearly need is the undisputed King of Squares: http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/20-24

How can your woodworking be as precise as befits such a notoriously stable material without a square that's accurate to 0.0001" (1/10 mil) per 6"? How can you ever be sure that your joinery isn't misfit because of the arrow and not the archer unless you use a $2000 guaranteed-straight arrow?

Accept no substitutes!

Agreed! (Did you bite your tongue writing that?)

Essential for machine shop work; overkill for fine furniture building. Extravagant overkill for shop furniture or bookcases for the kid's room. The PEC tools sold by Taylor (see the link I posted above) are overkill too, but at least they are relatively inexpensive if you go for the cosmetic blems.

When the accuracy of the tool exceeds the capacity of the material to maintain that accuracy and/or the ability of the woodworker to cut to that accuracy even if perfectly measured and marked, the extra accuracy - and cost - is wasted. Seems like the Tim Taylor Tool Time indulgence to me. If that floats someone's boat, it's okay with me, but to push such waste on others, as some do, is unseemly to me.

[Patrick Chase]

Agreed! (Did you bite your tongue writing that?)

Yeah, it got a little chewed up right around the part about wood being a "notoriously stable material".

PECs are quite good in my experience. For that matter Empire is probably adequate for WWing, but my engineer sensibilities won't allow me to use stuff that obviously out of true even if I intellectually know that it doesn't matter. "Flat reference" faces on the casting that are so obviously curved that I can see it with the naked eye are where I draw the line.

The most accurate sliding square I own is the Vesper double square. It's more accurate than my Starrett combos despite having less than half the bearing length between head and rule. For that matter it's more accurate (as measured against the Starrtt 55-6, which is my "golden" reference) than many of the machinist's squares in my collection. Total overkill, but a beautiful piece of machining.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, what you clearly need is the undisputed King of Squares: http://www.starrett.com/metrology/product-detail/20-24

Though there is an appreciation for fine tools, my budget must also be respected.

Online metals seems to have what is needed to fulfill my desires at about 1% of the cost.

A shop made tool will also likely give me more bragging rights with my friends and grandchildren.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Jim,
I have the little square next to your speed square. Unfortunately, my shop is still distressed from the Harvey storm and I can't lay my hands on it.
I have a lot of tools still in plastic tubs from the borg, and I'm still sorting them out.

It's not a square I use a lot, but when I need it, I want it. It's good for small intricate layouts.

[Nathan Johnson]

Thanks for the eBay pec links.
Ordered a 4 inch blem to replace my not square machinist square.

[steven c newman]

While some of the markings have worn off....at least on the smaller two, some have all their markings intact. Seems to be a line of Stanley Made in USA squares. That wee little one with the three diamonds ? Not too sure, was my Grandpa's, and came from my Late Dad's Tool set.

Both combos are Swansons....I use those mainly to mark a depth/distance of a cut. There iS a Stanley Handyman Combo floating around in the shop..somewhere. The kind that had a slot in the ruler part. There is also a red handled Handyman square.....somewhere.

Was just putting things away, had a project that needed as much bench space as I could get...
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Cutting down 1 x 6 x8' takes a bit of room....even the plane gets bigger
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That steel "yardstick"? Made by The Lufkin Rule Co. No. 95 Tinner's Rule.
Been using it as a straightedge....
It WAS used to measure out sheet metal to make all kinds of containers. There is a table inscribed on the one face, showing every dimension a tinner would need.
Came from my Late FIL's Hardware store, that me took over from his dad...I may have to Google-fu it, and see when it was made...

[Barney Markunas]

I want to love the little PEC blem I bought from Epsteins but I must confess I am underwhelmed. It is plenty square enough for woodworking but it does not lock down all that well. Very frustrating to use it to mark out something like a chamfer and discover that my square thinks the chamfer should be tapered instead of a constant width. I'll replace it with a Starrett at some point but it will be a while until that floats to the top of my acquisition list.

[Bill Houghton]

Jim,

Have you considered picking up another framing square and sandwiching the short side with wood scales?

[James Waldron]

I want to love the little PEC blem I bought from Epsteins but I must confess I am underwhelmed. It is plenty square enough for woodworking but it does not lock down all that well. Very frustrating to use it to mark out something like a chamfer and discover that my square thinks the chamfer should be tapered instead of a constant width. I'll replace it with a Starrett at some point but it will be a while until that floats to the top of my acquisition list.

If the square won't hold a setting, it's defective. It should be returned for a replacement or refund. I don't know Epsteins, but if they are reputable, there should be little or no difficulty. I know Taylor stands behind the quality of the blems they sell.

Edit: Or you could always take the thing apart, find the cause of the problem and fix it yourself. But then, if you were the tinkering type, you probably would have done that already instead of posting news of your intent to abandon the tool.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

Have you considered picking up another framing square and sandwiching the short side with wood scales?

It has been given some thought but isn't quite to my liking.

If you notice the small framing square in the picture of my squares in post #2 it has 'ears' attached so it can be used like a try square.

Things will eventually come together for me to make one to my liking.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Was able to actually read the markings on that framing square.....it was made by Great Neck Tool Co. Imagine that....