Blue Spruce Coping Saw

[Steve Mathews]

I was about to purchase a Knew Concepts saw but while reading reviews and comments about which one to get the Blue Spruce Coping Saw surfaced. Any news on when it will be available?

[Matt Lau]

You'll need to contact Dave directly.

As for the Knew Concepts saw, I liked it enough to buy it twice.
For sectioning stone tooth models, there's nothing better...the tension setting cam arm is really helpful.
While it looks sorta ugly, it's light, stiff, and dissappears in function.

Knowing Dave, his version will be very beautiful and feel great in the hand.
It'll probably work better than average too.

[David Bassett]

I've been following it on his Instagram. He has first parts, is working on his waiting list, and doesn't have enough to add it to his website (yet). I haven't seen a price announced either. He did show it at the Portland L-N Event, maybe someone who attended and saw it can chime in.

[Steve Mathews]

I've been following it on his Instagram. He has first parts, is working on his waiting list, and doesn't have enough to add it to his website (yet). I haven't seen a price announced either. He did show it at the Portland L-N Event, maybe someone who attended and saw it can chime in.

Ditto that. It will be interesting to read some user comments on the Blue Spruce saw.

Since it looks like the Blue Spruce saw may take a while I plan to purchase one of the Knew Concepts fret saws. Member Derek Cohen recommends the 3" version for dovetail work. So that narrows it down to the older version (MK3?), MKIV or TI Birdcage version. What is recommended for a novice woodworker just getting started into making dovetails?

Edit: After viewing an Adam Savage video, not only does Derek recommend the 3" saw but Brian Meek from Knew Concepts also recommends the 3" version for dovetails.

[William Adams]

Darn, I was really hoping this was an announcement that this was available for sale --- just as well though, I've kind of over-extended the budget on a Festool CT Midi and Oneida Ultimate Dust Deputy.

[Jim Koepke]

When my Knew Concepts saw was purchased the full rotational blade holder wasn't yet available so the 45º blade rotation model was purchased. If another one is purchased it will be the fully rotational version. Having 45º works well, but who can resist going the full circle? Besides, my area code is 360 why not have a saw that goes with it?

jtk

[lowell holmes]

After getting a Knew Concepts fret saw, I quit using my coping saw. I prefer a fret saw to a coping saw.

[steven c newman]

I guess I'll do without either...as these hands will not allow me to use a broom-handle like handle for saw work...Gave away my "Gent's saws" because it hurts the hands to saw with that kind of handle.....Uncle Arthur says so... Even using a pen....I have trouble holding all but the fattest ones...pencils aren't much better...

[Brent VanFossen]

I spoke with Dave Jeske at the Portland Lie-Nielsen event this weekend. He had the new saw there, and it is as classy and beautiful as you would expect from Blue Spruce. The saw can be set to allow it to freely pivot, or can be easily locked into one of several detents. He had 8 or 10 different finishes for the saw body, both anodized and ceramic, and either natural aluminum (I think it was Al) or black anodized for the adjustment wheels. You can see some of the variety in the photos. He told me he is taking orders now and will begin shipping in March of this year (2018). Price will be $325.379549

[Tony Wilkins]

I spoke with Dave Jeske at the Portland Lie-Nielsen event this weekend. He had the new saw there, and it is as classy and beautiful as you would expect from Blue Spruce. The saw can be set to allow it to freely pivot, or can be easily locked into one of several detents. He had 8 or 10 different finishes for the saw body, both anodized and ceramic, and either natural aluminum (I think it was Al) or black anodized for the adjustment wheels. You can see some of the variety in the photos. He told me he is taking orders now and will begin shipping in March of this year (2018). Price will be $325.379549

Beautiful tool, love blue spruce tools, Dave is a stand up guy. All that said, is it worth more than twice as much as a Knew concepts?

[William Adams]

Given that I find the aesthetics of my tools to be worth that kind of premium, to me, so long as it works at least as well as the Knew Concepts fret saw, it probably is to me, since the current "bird cage" model rubs me the wrong way, and I just can't accept the red for day-to-day use --- that said, if I could find one of the original flat titanium Knew Concepts saws for sale (anyone got a 3" fret?), I'd probably buy it instead.

[andy bessette]

...I just can't accept the red for day-to-day use...

This is precisely what has kept me from ordering one, an unbelievably poor choice of color for such a fine tool.

[William Adams]

Yeah, before the Blue Spruce came along I was considering buying one, stripping off the anodization, then re-anodizing in something more muted.

I am looking forward to someday soon having pretty much every hand tool I can justify owning and doing an extensive series of cleaning up, stripping, re-making handles, Parkerizing, &c. and then making a suitable tool chest for everything.

[lowell holmes]

Steven, why don't you put an after-market handle on the saw?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=71611&cat=1,42884

Or whittle a new handle.

[steven c newman]

I have Atkins, and Stanleys for Coping saws......can use them for a couple minutes, then they are hung back up....

[John Sanford]

This is precisely what has kept me from ordering one, an unbelievably poor choice of color for such a fine tool.

Keep in mind that the Knew Concepts saws came out of the realm JEWELRY making tools. There is a bit of a different aesthetic there. More importantly, jewelers are far, far more concerned about being able to RECOVER their "sawdust" than we are. Oddly enough, both gold dust and silver dust show up pretty darn well against red anodizing.

[Hasin Haroon]

Question for those who have handled or are familiar with the Blue Spruce saw, what is the USP of the Blue Spruce Coping saw over a Knew Concepts?

[Matt Lau]

I guess I'll do without either...as these hands will not allow me to use a broom-handle like handle for saw work...Gave away my "Gent's saws" because it hurts the hands to saw with that kind of handle.....Uncle Arthur says so... Even using a pen....I have trouble holding all but the fattest ones...pencils aren't much better...

Hey Steven,
You may want to try applying some foam wrap or memory plastic (thermoplastic) to your saw handles. My mom (occupational therapist and ergonomicist) would do it all the time for patients with good effect.
The theory is to provide a fitted handle that will take less force to hold.

[Matt Lau]

Here's a link to Frank Ford's page:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Tools/ErgoHandle/ergohandle1.html

You can also use dental putty, or thermoplastic beads to good effect.
Sugru would probably work fine too.

[Brian Holcombe]

A more bulbous handle would help the knew concepts saw, it kills my hand using it. I will likely turn something for it soon to replace the original.

[steven c newman]

It is more about the angle of my hand during the grip...regular saw totes are not a problem.....Uncle Arthur has these fingers all messed up.

Maybe IF they could make them like a frame/bow saw?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I spoke with Dave Jeske at the Portland Lie-Nielsen event this weekend. He had the new saw there, and it is as classy and beautiful as you would expect from Blue Spruce. The saw can be set to allow it to freely pivot, or can be easily locked into one of several detents. He had 8 or 10 different finishes for the saw body, both anodized and ceramic, and either natural aluminum (I think it was Al) or black anodized for the adjustment wheels. You can see some of the variety in the photos. He told me he is taking orders now and will begin shipping in March of this year (2018). Price will be $325.

WOW. $325 is a lot more than what he was suggesting was his target when I saw (and "sawed") this at Handworks. I wrote him and asked if I could pre-order, and he wasn't ready at that time. I thought I was on the waiting list, but I have not heard anything from him since. I have to say, it is one amazing saw, but $325 is quite steep.

I have the Knew Concepts 8" version of their saw. It twists like crazy. I wish I had opted for the smaller one. I used the Blue Spruce prototype in whatever wood he had on the bench at Handworks, and it performed flawlessly. I would happily pay $200 for it, but $325- wow- that's steep. Could that be a typo? Did you mean to type $225?

[Mike Henderson]

A more bulbous handle would help the knew concepts saw, it kills my hand using it. I will likely turn something for it soon to replace the original.

It's pretty easy to replace the handle. I documented the replacement of mine here (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/KnewHandle.htm).

Mike

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Mike!

[Patrick Chase]

Beautiful tool, love blue spruce tools, Dave is a stand up guy. All that said, is it worth more than twice as much as a Knew concepts?

This will undoubtedly be unpopular, but: While I think Dave Jeske has designed some wonderful tools, this one leaves me ice cold.

Part of it may be that as an engineer who's worked in carbon fiber before I have a pretty good idea how much that tool costs to make (not much). The reason he has to charge so much is because the two end pieces are molded, and that mold cost him a lot of money up-front. That's also why he's using the same part on both ends - it isn't driven by "visual symmetry" or anything like that, but rather by the need to avoid buying two molds instead of one and having to charge $500 for the saw. He really only needs that huge barrel at the handle end (and IIRC that was how the first design that he showed worked), but he has it at both as a consequence.

The same goes for his switch to off-the-shelf CF shafts for the back. When I saw the pictures of his initial concept (which I can't find right now) I had two reactions: First, that it was a very nice design. Second, that he'd never bring it to market because he couldn't recoup the required upfront investment.

I would also guess that the limited depth of cut (I eyeball it at 3-3.5") is a consequence of the need to limit the size of the ends, again to control mold costs. While that isn't a problem for dovetails, it does limit the saw's versatility. Note also that the fact that those parts are molded prevents Blue Spruce from offering multiple sizes. They'd have to retool the end pieces to do that, which would compound their economic challenge.

It seems to me that the sloped ends could also get in the way when working at full depth, though it appears to me that the corners are "outside" of the toothed part of the blade when the saw is used perpendicular to the work, so this may not be a real issue for many uses. Existing coping saws aren't as boxy as they are without reason though.

Overall I think that the material and manufacturing process aren't a good fit for the application (when you consider things like market size) and the design is overly compromised as a consequence. I also think the same of the Knew Concepts "birdcage" design, FWIW.

Finally, I get a little annoyed whenever I see people slap Cerakote or one of its clones on anything and bill it as ceramic (it's high-temperature-cure epoxy. Really).

[Bill Houghton]

What is it about these coping saws that make them worth 300+ times more than I paid for mine at a yard sale?

[Patrick Chase]

What is it about these coping saws that make them worth 300+ times more than I paid for mine at a yard sale?

Value is very much in the eye of the beholder.

I think that Dave Jeske's pricing is "fair" in the strict sense that he's not going to make a killing, and is taking a substantial financial risk because of up-front investment for tooling. The more interesting question IMO is whether the entire exercise is worthwhile. I have my doubts (see previous post) but that's just one beholder's opinion.

The "modern" framesaws (starting with Knew Concepts) do offer unprecedented combinations of light weight and stiffness, and I have no doubt that the Blue Spruce saw will be very good in that respect. The question is of course whether it's into diminishing returns.

I suppose that if you have an insurmountable objection to red tools then that would make it much more attractive. That's frankly a "don't care" for me.

[steven c newman]

OK..these are the main users in my shop..
.379784
A Diiston/HK Porter No.10, and a red handled, Stanley round frame..

VS.
379785
My right hand...
Grip in use ...
379786
And, I can't hold it very long.

[Brent VanFossen]

Could that be a typo? Did you mean to type $225?

Malcolm, it could be that I heard or remember incorrectly, but it's not a typo.

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree with Patrick and also think the knew concepts saw is pretty excellent at tensioning while remaining lightweight even if it is a bit ‘machine age’ in appearance.

Value is entirely subjective and so the market will support the pricing or it will not.

Often a boutique producer will price products in way so that demand does not greatly outstrip supply or production ability. It takes considerable resources and investments to support high demand and many would prefer to work around a lighter and more nimble structure. Alternatively if you prepare for high demand that never realizes then you might be risking the larger business for the sake of one product.

In other words if they come to market with an exceptionally tasty price demand may greatly outstrip supply and the result is a never ending lead time which kills future sales.

If I can use Japanese tools as example, even very famous makers are priced to be highly competitive (in a relative way) and the result is a very long lead time, many requiring a year or as many as 5-7 years. There are makers I won’t bother with because of that and the secondary market supports this idea as one can wait for these tools and immediately sell them for a profit. The lead time is excessive and so the pricing is in fact too low even though on the face these are 'expensive' prices.

[Alan Schwabacher]

I think Patrick Chase's argument about the engineering complexity is key: this is an expensive saw. That said, my impression from trying the saw in Amana is that this high priced tool actually offers significant unique function for the price. This is the only coping saw I've ever seen where you can accurately follow a curve with the tensioned blade and the spine swivels freely and completely independently of the direction of the cut. You could cut into a long edge, and then cut a tight spiral of many turns without any readjustment of the saw or pause in cutting. It feels very different from other coping saws.

Whether that is something you want to pay for is a separate question.

Incidentally, I don't think the light weight is needed in this saw because the weight is only relevant in twisting the spine rapidly back and forth as you cut complex curves. With this saw, the spine does not need to flop back and forth as you cut a complex curve. I don't see the weight making much difference to the sawing stroke itself, but I could be wrong.

[Patrick Chase]

I think Patrick Chase's argument about the engineering complexity is key: this is an expensive saw. That said, my impression from trying the saw in Amana is that this high priced tool actually offers significant unique function for the price. This is the only coping saw I've ever seen where you can accurately follow a curve with the tensioned blade and the spine swivels freely and completely independently of the direction of the cut. You could cut into a long edge, and then cut a tight spiral of many turns without any readjustment of the saw or pause in cutting. It feels very different from other coping saws.

I plan to try one at some point, and I honestly hope that my previous comments will be shown to have been off-base. I think Dave has done a lot for the current woodworking renaissance and wish him success.

[Jim Koepke]

What is it about these coping saws that make them worth 300+ times more than I paid for mine at a yard sale?

My inexpensive coping saws had a problem with a wobbly back and they stripped out at the handle tightening mechanism for the blade tension.

A fret saw is a different piece of kit than a coping saw even if they are close cousins. My old fret saws were useful, but they are nothing like the Knew Concepts fret saw.


I suppose that if you have an insurmountable objection to red tools then that would make it much more attractive.

If one doesn't like it red, buy a can of spray paint.


That's frankly a "don't care" for me.

Same here.

jtk

[Ted Phillips]

I have been looking at Dave's saw as it evolved over the past year or so - and while I like the design, I was a bit taken aback by the price tag. Dave's a stand-up guy and I'm sure he's charging a fair price for the saw he's building. But I'm not sure I need it at that price point. I already have a good Knew fret saw for dovetail wasting.

Instead of a coping saw, I'm thinking about buying the Gramercy Bow Saw from Joel at Tools for Working Wood. It is just a little beefier than a coping saw and would probably work for most things I would do that are larger than a fret saw could handle. The blades are 12" long and 1/8" wide and pinned like coping saw blades. I guess this saw could also be described as a classic "Turning Saw".

What do you guys think?
TedP


https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/TS/item/GT-BOWSAW12

[Tony Wilkins]

I have been looking at Dave's saw as it evolved over the past year or so - and while I like the design, I was a bit taken aback by the price tag. Dave's a stand-up guy and I'm sure he's charging a fair price for the saw he's building. But I'm not sure I need it at that price point. I already have a good Knew fret saw for dovetail wasting.

Instead of a coping saw, I'm thinking about buying the Gramercy Bow Saw from Joel at Tools for Working Wood. It is just a little beefier than a coping saw and would probably work for most things I would do that are larger than a fret saw could handle. The blades are 12" long and 1/8" wide and pinned like coping saw blades. I guess this saw could also be described as a classic "Turning Saw".

What do you guys think?
TedP


https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/TS/item/GT-BOWSAW12

The TFWW bow saw is a very nice piece of kit and would definitely work for what you’ve described.

[lowell holmes]

Stephan,
Have you considered making a fat handle for your coping saw? Try wrapping saw handle with rag and then masking tape.

[Derek Cohen]

Ted, for consideration, KC now have a coping saw with 360 degree turning.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[mike holden]

This is precisely what has kept me from ordering one, an unbelievably poor choice of color for such a fine tool.

The red is what *I* find attractive about the tool. Tastes vary.
Mike

[Simon MacGowen]

This is precisely what has kept me from ordering one, an unbelievably poor choice of color for such a fine tool.

Andy, Finally the truth came out: You dislike SawStop because of its COLOR!

Just a joke, of course.

Simon

[steven c newman]

Keep saying it isn't the size of the handle..it is the shape....and the angle my wrist has to be bent at, to use even a coping saw. Maybe something more in the line of a frame/ bow saw' handles would be better.

[Simon MacGowen]

Because the ones found at yard sales are not boutique tools. A boutique tool may be 1 time or 2 times better in functionality or performance, and the rest of price differential is due to perceived prestige. I know a couple of guys who own a vesper square, but such ownership has no relationship to the quality of their work.

Simon

[Patrick Chase]

Because the ones found at yard sales are not boutique tools. A boutique tool may be 1 time or 2 times better in functionality or performance, and the rest of price differential is due to perceived prestige. I know a couple of guys who own a vesper square, but such ownership has no relationship to the quality of their work.

I don't think that's quite fair to the "boutique" makers. I broke down the economics of the Blue Spruce saw earlier in this thread, but suffice it to say that what you're paying for is amortized up-front tooling costs, not prestige.

The Vesper square is another good example. I have one, and it's exceptionally well-finished and square to less than 0.0005" over 6". I don't have any other sliding squares, combo or double, that can match it in either respect, and I have a fair number of expensive measurement tools. It's total overkill for woodworking, but at the same time you're clearly not paying for "prestige" but rather for flawless execution and extremely high accuracy/precision.

[Simon MacGowen]

I don't think that's quite fair to the "boutique" makers. I broke down the economics of the Blue Spruce saw earlier in this thread, but suffice it to say that what you're paying for is amortized up-front tooling costs, not prestige.

The Vesper square is another good example. I have one, and it's exceptionally well-finished and square to less than 0.0005" over 6". I don't have any other sliding squares, combo or double, that can match it in either respect, and I have a fair number of expensive measurement tools. It's total overkill for woodworking, but at the same time you're clearly not paying for "prestige" but rather for flawless execution and extremely high accuracy/precision.

Patrick,

You are looking at the price of a tool from a seller's point of view. My comments are made in response to a question made from a consumer's point of view.

Please demonstrate if the prestige factor is not a big factor in people's buying fancy boutique tools (which isn't a derogatory term), how any fret saw or coping saw can be 100 times or 300 times better than a decent yard sale find?

Or, how the use of a square with a tolerance of 0.00001" could result in work or result that is 250 times better than using a square that is good to 0.003"?

If I could choose only one between these two in a challenge: supreme tool or supreme skills; I would pick up the latter...and win over someone who picked up the best or most pricey tool in the world.

By the way, "flawless execution and extremely high accuracy/precision" matters to you; but most other owners of a Vesper tool talk about its beauty and finish.

Simon

[Warren Mickley]

I have used the Eclipse coping saw for over thirty years in production work. I use it both on the push stroke and the pull stroke. It costs about $18, maybe three times what a cheap coping saw costs, but most of the cheap ones are near useless.

I met Chris Vesper one time. As I looked over one of his bevel squares, he told me that the Stanley No. 18 bevel squares did not work. I said "I have used that type since 1978." He said "They don't work. They don't hold their setting." The guy took me for a fool. I don't want to say what I thought of him.

[Simon MacGowen]

Speaking of coping saws, the Knew Concepts fret saw is great for dovetail work, giving good control.

But the KC fret saw is NOT a replacement of a good coping saw (with the right blade). The KC is no match for the aggressiveness of a coping saw when gang cutting or sawing 3/4" or 1" thick hardwood dovetails. The difference is like a pruning saw and a chainsaw when you have a tree to fell.

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

Speaking of coping saws, the Knew Concepts fret saw is great for dovetail work, giving good control.

But the KC fret saw is NOT a replacement of a good coping saw (with the right blade). The KC is no match for the aggressiveness of a coping saw when gang cutting or sawing 3/4" or 1" thick hardwood dovetails. The difference is like a pruning saw and a chainsaw when you have a tree to fell.

Simon

They also make a coping saw. I agree they’re unnecessary for good work and more a matter of preference.
One of my students brought his vintage coping saw to class, it performed beautifully.

I have had plenty of boutique tools come and go from my shop, some of them I really admire how well they’re made and they end up being multipurpose sinc I find myself doing more and more work with my Bridgeport Mill and other work.

The ‘good enough for woodwork’ designation may be literally true but it’s nice to have tools which are extremely accurate and also ‘good enough for woodwork’ certainly helpful when your scratching your head chasing down an issue and you do not have to second guess your equipment.

[Simon MacGowen]

I couldn't convince myself to have both a 5" fret saw AND a 6-1/2" coping saw from KC, so I opted for the fret, after trying both.

I don't find the handle an issue as some have, but no matter what, I would not spend $80 (more?) on that after market handle, which is close to the full cost of the fret itself!

Simon

[Derek Cohen]

I have the KC coping saw. It is beautiful and works very well. However I did not purchase it, and did not have intentions of doing so. Mine was a gift from Lee Marshall, the late owner of KC. Lee was such a wonderful man, with a true passion for his tools. I helped him bring the fretsaw into woodworking, aiding in the evolution of its design. Lee just kept sending me more fretsaws as they evolved, for my feedback and interest. He sent me the coping saw in this vein.

Frankly I was happy with my Olsen coping saw. Coping saws are different from fretsaws. The problem with the fretsaw frame not being stiff or light enough is not the issue with a coping saw. The KC fretsaw was a significant jump in technology and design and performance. Many here will attest to their experiences in this regard. However the coping saw does not have this "jump", and it is not needed. I use the KC coping saw because I have it. But I would be as satisfied with the Olsen if I did not.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

I met Chris Vesper one time. As I looked over one of his bevel squares, he told me that the Stanley No. 18 bevel squares did not work. I said "I have used that type since 1978." He said "They don't work. They don't hold their setting." The guy took me for a fool. I don't want to say what I thought of him.

The World is full of people with very strange but deeply held opinions who nonetheless produce wonderful tools/art/etc. What you've demonstrated here is that:


Chris may be one of those (for the record I think that the #18 works just fine)
It invariably reflects poorly upon us when we take somebody else's harmless foibles as a personal insult. He wasn't "taking you for a fool", he was just voicing his own kooky opinion.

The phrase "taking the good with the bad" comes to mind, and I'm not referring only (or even primarily) to Chris when I say that.

[Derek Cohen]

I suspect that Chris has been taken out of context. I know him very well - have spent time on his stall at woodshows for several years, and own a number of his tools, including his sliding bevels. He also manufacturers marking knives I designed.

What is special about Chris' sliding bevel is that it is rock solid and better than any other sliding bevel in regard to remaining locked in position. Yes, I also own a #18 Stanley, and it is a good one. I could be happy with just a Stanley, but the Vesper is better - not only in locking, but in ease of adjustment. My #18 locks pretty securely, but I have not subjected it to the type of test that Chris subjects his - he will challenge onlookers to twist or bend the arms using as much force as they can, or shift the setting. All this is just the fun and games of a manufacturer at a wood show. If you take this seriously, you are lacking a sense of humour.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[andy bessette]

...What is special about Chris' sliding bevel is that it is rock solid and better than any other sliding bevel in regard to remaining locked in position...

The Veritas sliding T-bevel is the best I have ever used. Easy to use one-handed
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/Page.aspx?p=32593

[Tony Wilkins]

The Veritas sliding T-bevel is the best I have ever used. Easy to use one-handed
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/Page.aspx?p=32593
I wish they still made those.

[Simon MacGowen]

The World is full of people with very strange but deeply held opinions who nonetheless produce wonderful tools/art/etc. What you've demonstrated here is that:


Chris may be one of those (for the record I think that the #18 works just fine)
It invariably reflects poorly upon us when we take somebody else's harmless foibles as a personal insult. He wasn't "taking you for a fool", he was just voicing his own kooky opinion.

The phrase "taking the good with the bad" comes to mind, and I'm not referring only (or even primarily) to Chris when I say that.

I met Chris at a tradeshow with all his signature tools on the table, a nice guy as Derek noted. I don't know the full context of his conversation with Warren, but he was certainly trying to put across his message that his sliding bevels were more superior. Standard sales pitch, nothing wrong.

However, if someone is at your booth expressing his actual hands-on experience -- whether since 1998 or just a few years ago -- you should probe and hear out what the fellow has to offer. If you sell mortising chisels and Paul Sellers unknown to you as being Paul shows up and says, bench chisels can do a similar job. You don't tell him bench chisels are not for mortising. You would want to understand why Paul says so.

So the question is, does it reflect poorly on the vendor or on the visitor? I don't think there is a simple answer.

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

I worked in sales for 10 years (I suppose I still work in sales as a business owner), sometimes you're talking to someone important or highly experienced and you don't know it until after you blurt out something....not that I've ever done such a thing. :D

[Simon MacGowen]

I worked in sales for 10 years (I suppose I still work in sales as a business owner), sometimes you're talking to someone important or highly experienced and you don't know it until after you blurt out something....not that I've ever done such a thing. :D

In our club, we once had a relatively new member. I was sharing with a few guys information about files for saw sharpening after a demo on the topic. He did not say anything until the end of our conversation and told us where we could get some nice files. We looked at him with a question mark on our faces before he said he did saw sharpening for a living!

Simon

[John C Cox]

There is an interesting phenenon related to this...
The part of your brain which controls motor skills - responsible for cutting perfect joints, hitting baseballs, riding bikes, sharpening chisels, and the like is NOT directly connected to the part of the brain which makes words, crafts logical arguments, or writes magazine articles...

And as such - we often find people with amazing skills which can accomplish truly brilliant things... And given the chance to explain how he does it - and you would swear the person was a complete imbecile... I remember hearing a world famous luthier explain his mental model for a particularly critical part of the design.. The crowd waited with baited breath.. And Zoink... Complete gobbledygook.... Everybody's jaws dropped...

And yet nobody questions that his guitars are some of the best out there... But that's the gap between doing things and real life vs explaining things...

[Bill White]

I guess that my old heavily framed Bahco coping saw will have to do for a while. Just can't justify the cost.
Bill

[Mel Fulks]

I've got a pretty standard type of coping saw for "big" stuff. But for cuts of just 2 or 3 inch depth I use one of those old
German jewelors saws. Very springy strong frame. They turn up on Ebay.

[Simon MacGowen]

I've got a pretty standard type of coping saw for "big" stuff. But for cuts of just 2 or 3 inch depth I use one of those old
German jewelors saws. Very springy strong frame. They turn up on Ebay.

I used to have one of those German saws, very affordable: https://www.esslinger.com/jewelers-saw-frame-german-made-choose-size/ I gave it away after getting a Knew Concepts.

Simon

[William Adams]

Well, it's now available, and rather than regret, I've put in an order.

Hopefully won't regret African Blackwood for the handle.

[Patrick Chase]

Well, it's now available, and rather than regret, I've put in an order.

I celebrated the Blue Spruce saw's availability by ordering the TFWW bowsaw :-)

Well, not really, but I really like the bowsaw design and I did recently order one.

[ken hatch]

I celebrated the Blue Spruce saw's availability by ordering the TFWW bowsaw :-)

Well, not really, but I really like the bowsaw design and I did recently order one.

Patrick,

Good move.

While the BS coping saw looks a marvel, I would and have gone your route. The TFWW bow saw is one of the most used saws in my till. BTW, I thought the KC saw was a little spendy, full disclosure I have one, but $325 USD is enough to make even me go Hummm.

ken

[Steve Bates]

Steven, I got a 12 inch bow saw that needed a new blade. TFWW had a variety pack of 3 blades which I got. Never used a bow saw before,but I've had limited exposure to cheap coping saws. Night and day difference between them. the 6 inch blade in the coping saw may be fine for small work, but I fell in love with that 12 inch blade and having a place to hold the saw with both hands comfortably.
Having a variety of teeth sizes and spacing for different woods, thicknesses, applications is a bonus.
I grab the bow saw first. Try it, you may like it.

[steven c newman]

Have an 18" saw hanging up in the shop...
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Seems to cut quite well..as a cross cut saw...
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Just have to train the operator how to saw straight..
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Re-cycled an old Butcher's Meat Saw for the metal parts....and the easy to sharpen blade.
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Might just come in handy..

[Patrick Chase]

Steven, I got a 12 inch bow saw that needed a new blade. TFWW had a variety pack of 3 blades which I got. Never used a bow saw before,but I've had limited exposure to cheap coping saws. Night and day difference between them. the 6 inch blade in the coping saw may be fine for small work, but I fell in love with that 12 inch blade and having a place to hold the saw with both hands comfortably.
Having a variety of teeth sizes and spacing for different woods, thicknesses, applications is a bonus.
I grab the bow saw first. Try it, you may like it.

The thing we have to realize is that in all push saws the uppermost part of the structure is loaded in tension, while the lowest "stiff" part of the structure is loaded in compression. Different sawtypes provide different ways to meet those loads. For example in the Blue Spruce saw it's those two carbon rods: The top one will carry mostly tension, the bottom one mostly compression. For KC it's the "spine truss", which similarly carries tension in its outermost lengthwise members (the ones furthest from the blade) and compression in its innermost. Note that in both of these cases the tension member is needlessly rigid, simply because it's made of the same material as the compression member.

Given that loading pattern a bowsaw is a very nicely optimized solution. It provides compressive strength where needed (the center member) and saves weight by only being strong in tension elsewhere (the back)

[Pat Barry]

Patrick,

Good move.

While the BS coping saw looks a marvel, I would and have gone your route. The TFWW bow saw is one of the most used saws in my till. BTW, I thought the KC saw was a little spendy, full disclosure I have one, but $325 USD is enough to make even me go Hummm.

ken
A saw like TFWW (gramercy?) bow saw design seems like it would be quite clumsy for doing detail work. Did you find it difficult to get used to? I wonder about the length for example and the top heavy design.
What is its weight?

[William Adams]

It just arrived --- busy due to the holiday, so no chance to use it, but it's packaged very nicely:

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a bit larger than I was expecting:

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Beautifully machined and brilliantly engineered --- really looking forward to using it.

[John Schtrumpf]

That is a beautiful looking saw, and a nice long handle too. :cool: