Finally found a Moulder

[John TenEyck]

After I sold my Foley Belsaw planer/moulder nearly two years ago I have missed having a moulder. A couple of recent opportunities convinced me to look for another. Last week I found this W&H and I brought it home yesterday.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/m850NI_9qP67E-v8zVF0fviePCQfSN8RinxeZUSkSO_MVZEa6oTCRT-oYX8DfwCTM5DAlCvTEAot4mrxYTs-C3IEV1Iz6wA3Uoyj561uAWuemgc3CSsnChhMiyF9jBpZIQoYsW yWKXDRy5vPZJRim6f8ZD9GwTlcdze1qdPYZj-nBl59gFlzn80G1jFs9meDzZnxaL4J2nPOOe5cGzdAvd0-2fKpN-oT9wqVRWW_sKGQbBkwau4FrHZQfj0dUMRt_X8R0kI931q3zgt-dEC6FWrNHk2VuES5KhzK673CP-XM91QHBch6Tzw8IEk41jpLMspWWoCWbKUofiKw9HDAZLnULH8g UG0pZPOltrFd_l4MsLqDm66RuVJ9WD35lCPZZpjc_cEK1AfKeX pnEyQ5XiCc1n3v4lCAyePRkRQo3jRJUsvmcdUJFfN7CxUkIM6Q bKHcuzE3lCeIdITPmFQ9hdXXgL_cYSta0iOwDtuQjBD65sXkSI RHkGZGo94VFnIXx64FiXTn8oMaxIW8hsUW23e5vkyDsZuNxDSk p2BXi4zsolNlHma3Ord7DvPq49wxHp3E1Jli9S57l1tgRgzuDj 4BPArA2zGA75qzH6OxWDUnpkj4VD_sQZXcnwMEaybSQZE75hFF Fzm3NltoJjyr0xIAKA5arEXSCA=w800-h600-no

Besides the elliptical jig, it came with 30 sets of mostly custom knives, including some really large crown molding ones.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aqFKVOcIIfwJOPg44EYj2OP7_XbEek6qe2uypXDrb1BLi2D2wh Ivm6InnOWQgMIExTUimMJaBOeSNGgks8dwncMEa-U2PWaOt1j5H3HIk7zywHeWcmIkEwm6b1RoUmrETQbqyxPOndKV GwQBMGEZXN8muMuewniQC-OQlGA3n7Xuax0I3lC0qpXFe9lDv3fUD2wQZ5rJUeYBfazbdhA_ eV6rK_Gisj7r-qbVuEeopeeawSjY9NujPGIjHmgNAzjaYqpoABKV-R2rqFfUkrxK-PAtcn59nn62WTqtz94870y7nPwlBWVVFGlam9QR35z7TfeAV2_ ScU3GNBxeL4ZyynoXwQ86cLzaUHuL_hREz0qFUA0zyHBW7DBCW BUC1FmbJe3ecMg8CHvsRiIsrSlbQN7BEHg_6ViXjma3ic4hbdE HAIZ4OARLlLnjcOurT5V00wjFein6Bucsqh3rcQxZPv9nm2fB2 68dvu8FnTompZv4jRXEphZbmdS-3cFuk0E2UOm1CHJDl2SgFDp4RVRVuCImcidP2GZdIQvF5QUrgP so_aMYBAUT6wc2pSkuIEk1Hba_jmGEaTCAPnARnYJN2W8VVXwm YF4MfUSDJGD5GxdUsn8Hd3txDHLzMZTSEzS00c5PblnnkYj5d-1_JDvqTgZlWXQu2-ycqw=w800-h600-no

I had to drive 3 hours each way to get it, but for $1200 it seemed like a good deal. If anyone needs a bunch of big crown molding let me know because I have no clue what I'm going to do with them. The machine looks to be in great shape. Just needs a new cord and plug and it'll be ready to go.

John

[Warren Lake]

havent used one of those but did buy a Woodmaster that was damaged for around a grand. Then had a corrugated head made and big shaft and changed bearings. Its a bit mickey mouse then at the same time for some stuff it outperforms a shaper. Wood sits flat, rubber rollers grab well, corrugated fits it and the shapers thats sensible. Gear drive motor dial in any speed you want better than a feeder where it doesnt give you as much variation. Old guy laughed at it but coming from a shop running 12 stickers full time he had never seen anything so small. I ran a piece of birdseye and he stopped laughing. Id always want one of these its simple and easy, like a better one like the Microns.

[Peter Christensen]

Great deal John. I'd be happy to take any of the blades you don't want. I'll even pay you for the postage. :)

[Bill Adamsen]

Good purchase John. Like that it came with the elliptical guide.

[John TenEyck]

Great deal John. I'd be happy to take any of the blades you don't want. I'll even pay you for the postage. :)

Thanks Peter. I'll get back to you on your offer......

John

[Mark Bolton]

Yeah. That's a sweet deal and a killer price. I think we paid around that for one with less and smaller knives and many more miles on it. Super score.

[Martin Wasner]

You don't want to know what I paid for my five head

[John TenEyck]

Yeah. That's a sweet deal and a killer price. I think we paid around that for one with less and smaller knives and many more miles on it. Super score.

The guy who owned the machine made custom kitchens and interior trim work, so I doubt it got many hours on it. I need to develop some new clientele to make use for a lot of those knives, but it was still a good deal even if that never happens. I got a new length of SO cord and plug wired to it today. It seems to run fine; just need to put some knives in and run a few feet to confirm.

John

[Peter Christensen]

You did get a good deal. I bought mine in 1990 without a stand, motor and it cost more than what you paid. Getting that plus the elliptical jig and the knives makes it all that much sweater. Lets make that sweeter.

[Jim Becker]

My neighbor has one of those and it's a great machine. Congrats!

[Jeff Heath]

That's a great deal on that W&H, especially all the knives you got. I ran a W&H in my shop for 10 years before the economy tanked in 2007 and all the builders closed up. It was a great money maker as an additional valued service to my sawmill. I sold a ton of crown, base and trim, as well as wainscoting cap, cove and round to the local builders and finish carpenters, in different species of wood.

Make sure you use the correct oil for it. If I were you, I'd change it before using it. I've seen a few of those that weren't maintained very well. The feed rollers on them can get chewed up, but are available, and aren't hard to change. I've still got a jug of their oil for it, but I'm planning on reacquiring a used one, so I'm keeping it. If you need a part number, let me know......

Edit: You can get extra mileage out of the knives between actual sharpenings by lapping the backs to a high grit, much like flattening a plane iron or chisel. It renews the edge a bit, and cleans off any sap and burn marks left by some species of wood.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the advise Jeff. I downloaded what I think is the correct manual for it. It says to use 80-90 weight gear oil in the drive roller tranny, IIRC, but nothing more specific. If you know otherwise, please let me know. The manual also mentioned lapping the back of the knives as a way of extending the time between sharpenings and improving cut quality.

Did you advertise or did people just know they could come to you for molding?

John

[Jeff Heath]

I checked while I was in the shop just now, planning on reporting back. It's 90 weight gear oil, so that'll do.

When I added the molder, I was already a well established furniture and cabinetmaker around here. I had a lot of builders already coming to me for hardwood lumber, as I used to sell a lot of lumber from my sawmill (now I'm a hoarder.... :) ), and I just mentioned to them all about the molder. It took off very quickly for me. I made up a bunch of samples and dropped them off at the local builders businesses. At the time, my area was experiencing ridiculous growth, and custom spec homes were going up all over the place. You get the drill. Easy sell. I was running moldings almost every night, well into the late hours.

[Peter Christensen]

I've still got the quart I bought it with. It is a sticky oil, like chainsaw bar oil. I'll have to remember to compare the two and see if they are the same or perhaps it is a gear oil blended with chainsaw oil type thickeners.

[Jared Sankovich]

Its specific oil: 600XP 460.

It's $10 from Williams and hussey, so not that expensive.

I have one w&h that the po neglected to keep oil in the gear box.. it destroyed the brass worm gear.

[Mark Bolton]

You'll want to do some reading/research when you start to run larger profiles with the molder and no multi-pass and no variable speed. We dont run either of those on ours but we made some modifications that make the multi-pass more feasible. Leo G who posts here often has some stellar advice with these to shim and clamp the cantilevered edge of the head for your final pass. It makes a world of difference in your finish quality. Having the VS option would help but these molder are so slow at the stock speed I couldnt imagine going any slower. Clamping your outbound side of the head is a must.

I cant imagine running those wide knives without a lot of prep.. Many shops you will read about will prepare their blanks with plowed out dado's in the deep reliefs. I could never seem to find the time in the job for that amount of work and would just multipass them but it cuts your knife life drastically.

We have tried lapping the back sides many times to get a bit more footage but honestly it seems once you've pushed the knives pretty far, your looking at a hefty amount of lapping to recover that edge. If youve got a job for a small molder like this that pays for more than a couple thousand feet its better to just bring in two sets of knives and send one out for re-sharp while your running the other batch. Also your profile is not growing if its all on the same job. A heavy lap on a wide profile will make the profiles not match if they are holding over shorts and so on.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Jared. I didn't see the oil on W&H's website until I went and looked under "accessories" after seeing your post. Definitely will order some.

John

[John TenEyck]

Thanks very much for your insights, Mark. I have much to learn, to be sure. First thing is to see if my machine can multi-pass. If it can't I may buy the upgrade kit from W&H. Somehow the guy who owned it ran those wide crown knives so he must have had it figured out. But I didn't get to meet him, unfortunately. He died two years ago and I bought the machine from his brother who was sell off his tools and machines. I didn't see the add on Craigslist for about a month after it was first posted. Crazy that it was still available.

John

[Mark Bolton]

You can avoid the multi pass with more blank prep (hog out the bulk of the material before it goes into the molder). Modifying your molder to allow for multi pass isnt hard. A little grinding and some longer springs is all it takes. Saves a bunch of money.

[John TenEyck]

Mark, got any photos or guidelines of where and how much to grind and which springs to use? You must need some kind of extension, for lack of a better word, to install longer springs, or? Thanks.

John

[Mark Bolton]

Mark, got any photos or guidelines of where and how much to grind and which springs to use? You must need some kind of extension, for lack of a better word, to install longer springs, or? Thanks.

John

If you look inside the molder you will see the stops where the arms that hold the feed rolls sit against. A guy over on woodweb told me that a long time ago the WH rep I think at a show told him to just grind a bit of a notch in those arms where the stops hit allowing the rollers to project further down and replace the stock springs with longer. We did that and it works like a charm. Was lucky in that I am a hardware pack-rat. Whenever we install something and it comes with a bag of hardware for multiple installation scenarios I save all that old hardware. In one of our hardware drawers I had a set of the exact springs that are in the W&H but ours were half as long and I just put them in on top of the stock springs. Its been working great. Another bonus is that when your on final pass the extra spring pressure really gives some heavy duty hold down on the work.

Our molder will often snipe really bad but with a lot of technique you can get it way down or eliminate it. Endless board helps a ton with ours, as does standing at the infeed side and applying downward pressure on in-feed while raising the rear of the board somewhat bowing/springing it down against the bed. Then same on the outfeed. Raise the end up while applying a good downward pressure on the way out.

The molder is taking a pretty hefty bite on most moldings with only two cutters and a relatively small cutter diameter so when the tip-tail is in the molder and only under one feed roller things can get ugly.

Its fine to just plan that waste into your workflow but when your running material for a job it sucks to have to buy 13' material to ship 12's and so on.

For as much molding as we run and with it being sporadic, and my shop not being anywhere near big enough for a commercial molder, my dream machine would be a logosol PH360 or something on those lines.

P.S. Leo's technique of clamping the cantilevered side is the single biggest improvement in cut quality we have found.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks very much for the follow up info. Mark.

John

[Larry Edgerton]

You don't want to know what I paid for my five head


Try making curved moldings on your five head.:p