Will a 2HP dust collector, handle a 15" wide belt sander?

[dirk martin]

Do you folks think the Grizzly G0548ZP would handle my 15" wide belt sander, or do you think I should go with the 3hp model?

This link shows both. (http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2018/main/217?p=220)

[Peter Kelly]

Either would probably work but I'd go with a cyclone if you're going to be using the widebelt continuously. The filters will get clogged pretty quickly otherwise.

The machine's manual should list requited CFMs.

[David Kumm]

Inside to outside cartridges with no shaker or pulse jet blower don't work well with a sander even with a pre separator. Unless you are told the cartridge surface cakes and releases really easily, you might be better off with a good quality oversized singed felt bag. Once those cartridges fill, even the three hp won't work well. Dave

[Derek Cohen]

Do you folks think the Grizzly G0548ZP would handle my 15" wide belt sander, or do you think I should go with the 3hp model?

This link shows both. (http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2018/main/217?p=220)

Hi Dirk

I have the 2 hp, and it "sort of copes" with my Hammer equipment (which does not include a sander). My next upgrade is the DC, and it will be a minimum of 3 hp. I don't have long runs, which increases efficiency.

I have been lectured by a friend, who is an expert in this area (it was his profession), that all DC should vent outdoors. There are more factors at play than simply h.p. The size of the impeller is another factor. If you are planning to run less than 6" pipe, then you could just as well be using less horse power. Most machines must be modified to accept 6" outlets. Smaller outlets will throttle the extraction. I achieved a large gain just by moving to larger hoses.

What I am getting at is that it is more than simply a choice of two machines of different horse power for your sander. The other areas must also be attended to maximise the return.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Alex Stace]

venting outdoors is not feasible in cold climates unless there is some kind of heat recovery unit that can handle that kind of cfm.

[Chris mcadoo]

I've got a 22-44 and been using it for 4 years with a harbor freight 2 hp collector with no problem

[jack duren]

Should......

[Derek Cohen]

venting outdoors is not feasible in cold climates unless there is some kind of heat recovery unit that can handle that kind of cfm.

The issue is, as my friend constantly reminds me, is that it is the dust we do not see that is dangerous. All DCs leak dust. Venting outside is safer. Also, collecting dust at the source is the best strategy, and that requires power and efficiency. Otherwise all one has is a chip collector ..

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Barry Block]

I agree with the above comments but like Alex said the option of venting outside is not a reality most of us live in. For that reason and especially with a belt sander I would recommend a two stage dust collection with a good filter. I'm on a budget and have space concerns but am in the process of purchasing and or setting up a two stage system with a high efficiency filter. Regardless of my decision it will cost considerably more but I'm not willing to sacrifice my health for $$$. A belt sander throws out a lot and I mean a lot of dust and as Derek points out its the dust you can not see that is really bad for you.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Lots to think about.
Consider your layout and length of runs. Consider your electrical requirements.
If I had more amps, I probably would have gone with 3hp.
My 2hp cyclone takes care of my 20" widebelt just fine, but I exhaust outdoors.
If you're sanding 4" boards I guarantee 2hp will be fine. If you're sanding 15" wide stuff all day I think you'll need more suckage.

Either way, If you overflow the drum with fine dust from the widebelt and it gets into the cartridge filter, you'll spend all day cleaning it.

[dirk martin]

I'll have a very short run. The sander will be right next to the wide belt.
I'll be sanding 6 - 12" wide stock all day.
The sander has a 5" port, that I can't/won't modify....but the port is on top of the machine. Getting the hose from the DC up to the sander port, will take some snaking of the hose/PVC in order to avoid sharp angles. Porting outside is not an option, in Wisconsin.

Since the sander is pulling 5hp, I really was hoping to avoid a 3hp DC. That's 8HP worth of electricity I'm consuming, hours on end.

Sure, going to a 2HP DC is only saving a few amps, but every little bit help, when I'm doing this every day.
I've decided a 1 HP units (G0583z) will be fine, with one on my planer, and one on my table saw, and another split between my 2 chop saws and radial arm....but I doubt it'll cut it, on my sander.

So, I'm hoping to put the 2HP unit (G0548zp for $515) next to the sander, as a dedicated DC.

The Sander specs call for 700 CFM, and the 2hp DC says it moves 1700 cfm....so that gives me a lot to play with, don't you think?

[dirk martin]

I didn't know Jet made a mini-cyclone.

Which do you think would do better on a 15" wide belt:

This Jet (https://tinyurl.com/ycvyh3ym)
or
This Grizzly (http://www.grizzly.com/products/2HP-Canister-Dust-Collector-with-Aluminum-Impeller-Polar-Bear-Series/G0548ZP)

The sander specs call for 650 CFM minimum...it's the Grizzly G0819.

[Jim Becker]

The short cone cyclones generally don't separate as well as the long-cone and larger units.

One thing about "specifications" on mass-market dust collectors...they don't usually reflect real-world performance. Check the fan curves (if they are available...often not) to determine how one unit compares to another.

[glenn bradley]

My Grizzly G0440, 2HP cyclone does great with my Supermax 19-30 drum sander even with only one 4" port on the sander. I had assumed I would need to modify the sander before I ever even fired it up but, dust collection has been one of the better locations in my shop.

[dirk martin]

Yeah, I'm really leaning towards the Grizzly at 1700 CFM.
That's just so much higher than the recomended CFM of the sander, so I can't imagine the sucking power diminishing that much, to be an issue.
Especially since the DC will be right next to the sander.
Even if I have to rotate the filter cleaner handle every couple of hours, I'd be fine.

[Larry Frank]

Please do not be fooled by the claims that the dust collector mfg make. I do not believe that a 2 hp DC can pull anything like 1700 cfm. I have a 5 hp cyclone with 15" impeller. With an 8" duct, I get a little over 1700 cfm measured with a hot wire anemometer.

With all the sanding, I would get something more than what you are suggesting. However, it is your shop and health. I would briefly think about people who work there and the risk of undersizing the dust collector both with health and liability. It is your business and your choices.

[Alex Stace]

The issue is, as my friend constantly reminds me, is that it is the dust we do not see that is dangerous. All DCs leak dust. Venting outside is safer. Also, collecting dust at the source is the best strategy, and that requires power and efficiency. Otherwise all one has is a chip collector ..

Regards from Perth

Derek
Oh, I agree, in cold climates its just literally not physically possible on a shop scale. I would then need to install a heating system capable of heating 1500 CFM of air 70-90 degrees f in the dead of winter... Dont wanna even think about how many BTUS that would require.

[dirk martin]

I understand, Larry.
But again, the mfg of the sander, says it needs 700 cfm. The mfg of the DC says it pulls 1700 cfm.
Am I not giving myself a lot of wiggle room, to offset marketing hype?

[Rod Sheridan]

I understand, Larry.
But again, the mfg of the sander, says it needs 700 cfm. The mfg of the DC says it pulls 1700 cfm.
Am I not giving myself a lot of wiggle room, to offset marketing hype?

No Dirk, you're not.

The duct may have 4" WC static pressure loss, or maybe 6"WC. Your sander needs 700 CFM at that restriction.

Even with clean filters, the dust collector you've selected may not have that much performance.

The only way to know is to determine your static pressure loss and compare it to the curves for the dust collector. If the dust collector doesn't have a set of curves, you can't determine whether it will work.

As an aside, HP numbers are meaningless for dust collectors, the only thing that matters is accurate performance curves. I could put a 15 HP motor on a 1 HP collector and it wouldn't work any better than it does with the 1HP motor. A good fan design can provide much more airflow than a poor fan design, with less power requirements.

Regards, Rod.

[dirk martin]

So when I see grizzly with the exact same DC, and the ONLY diff is the HP of the motor....I'm being scammed?

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

So when I see grizzly with the exact same DC, and the ONLY diff is the HP of the motor....I'm being scammed?

If the impeller is exactly the same, and if it's sized to draw 1hp with minimal ducting/static pressure then the 2hp will do nothing for you, except maybe last longer as it is only working at half or less of its capacity.

Normally a 2hp would have a larger impeller than a 1hp even if they appear the same from the outside.

Cheers, Dom

[Jim Becker]

Dirk, one of the things you're going to run into by considering "mass market" products for DC is that there seems to be "less engineering" and more "price point". Specifications are often suspect and many mass marketers do not provide fan curves. I make this statement without reference to any particular vendor, too. Proper dust collection requires engineering. Yes, that costs more money. And again I mention that for a one person shop where it's only "you", your choice is merely personal. If you have employees, then the bar is higher on safety for both regulatory and insurance purposes.

[Carl Kona]

Dirk,

The advice above is spot on. You will never get anywhere near 1700CFM from that unit. When DCs first started reporting performance they were single stage and listed what the "FAN" could do in optimistic lab conditions. Once you connect the fan to the separator and filter bag performance drops significantly. When cyclones became available company's started showing performance of the complete system (not just the blower) and are in some cases very close to reality. As suggested above, start with a performance curve. I have not seen one for the 2HP version you are looking at but the model below is shown in this review http://www.portercable.com/uploads/PCD/Documents/News/182DustCollectors.pdf

Grizzly states that it should provide 1550CFM but this test shows the best it could ever do is 863CFM (slightly more than half of what was claimed). Apply the same adjustment to your model and your 1700 looks more like 900 (just an approximation). This is before you add your ducting to your machine! So as suggested you need to first understand your SP loss for your setup and find a curve (Preferably from an independent test) for a machine you are considering or something close and determine if you can get 700 CFM at your machine with the duct and hose layout you plan on using.

Your other question about 3 machines with the same impeller and different performance/motors. The impeller is only one part of the performance equation. You also have to consider inlet size outlet size, outlet load and housing size. Change any of these and your performance curve will change. With the lower performing units they have 5" hose and cloth bags on the outlet side - reducing performance. The unit you are considering they have a large metal duct on the outlet to the separator and a canister filter -both reducing output restriction and increasing current requirements(larger motor). The 3HP has a larger (7") inlet and a larger outlet feeding 2 filters (more surface area) requiring an even larger motor. I can't find a difference between the 1.5HP and 2HP versions, but imagine the blower housing is physically smaller.

[dirk martin]

Well, I wanted to follow up on this thread, because I'm kinda shocked with my results.

I did order the Grizzly 1hp and the 2hp DC.
I put each one into operation, in my production shop, on each of our machines....including our 15" wide belt sander.

We were so pleased with the results of this 1hp canister DC, that we sent the 2HP back!
That's right....the 1HP DC on our 15" wide belt sander, is doing a fanstastic job.
This saved us so much money, that we decided to add another ceiling air filter, just for additional lung protection.

We are getting no dust from any of our saws, using these 1hp units.
The bag is a bit small...especially for the planer, but we've got an idea how to lengthen the upgrights on the unit, to increase bag size.

So, we now have a 1hp DC dedicated to each machine in our shop (on order).....tho, we do share one of the 1hp units between the radial arm, and the table saw.

We've ordered 3 more of them, for the shop, and they are on back order.
Nice, popular little units.
Huge cost savings....both with the purchase, as well as the ongoing energy cost.

[Scott Buehler]

No, you will not get 1700 cfm out of that dust collector. Yes it will handle a 15" sander. Keep the filters clean on a weekly basis and you will be fine

[Jim Andrew]

I have a Grizzly 15" wide belt sander, a 3hp cyclone, vented outside, and still have dust falling off the feed belt on the rear of the sander. Was wishing I had gone with a 5hp cyclone. Don't notice dust in the air though.

[Martin Wasner]

I have a Grizzly 15" wide belt sander, a 3hp cyclone, vented outside, and still have dust falling off the feed belt on the rear of the sander. Was wishing I had gone with a 5hp cyclone. Don't notice dust in the air though.

I don't think I've ever seen a widebelt that didn't shed some dust off of the conveyor. I've got more than enough cfm for my machine, I still get some. I don't doubt some improvements to the chute inside could be made, or compressed air used to agitate the dust and keep it airborne inside the machine.

[Dave Cav]

I have a PSI Tempest 3 HP cyclone (no longer available) attached to my 36" widebelt via 6" S&D, with filter cartridges inside the shop. It works fine, although it does tend to clog the cartridges eventually after heavy sanding. I'll eventually go with socks/baghouse, or vent directly outside.

[dirk martin]

I have a Grizzly 15" wide belt sander, a 3hp cyclone, vented outside, and still have dust falling off the feed belt on the rear of the sander. Was wishing I had gone with a 5hp cyclone. Don't notice dust in the air though.

Makes no sense to me, when we are doing just fantastic with our 1hp DC, on our 15" wide belt.
We just get a tiny bit of dust coming off the conveyor.

[Larry Frank]

Interesting that a 1 hp dust collector which probably is pulling at best 300 cfm with max static pressure of 4-5" is doing so well. When pulling the 300-400 cfm, the static pressure will be low.

For me, I know that drum Sanders put out a lot of very fine dust and guess that you have some leaking out. If it works for you great. BUT for me, I have my drum sander hooked up to a cyclone that pulls a real, measured 600 cfm at about 10" static pressure. At my age, I do not want to breath the fine dust.

[Peter Christensen]

Makes no sense to me, when we are doing just fantastic with our 1hp DC, on our 15" wide belt.
We just get a tiny bit of dust coming off the conveyor.

Dick are you measuring the dust levels in the shop to see how good that 1hp DC is at collecting the fine dust that is not easily seen and causes the health issues? Lots of people have the Dylos meters (http://www.dylosproducts.com/dc1100paqmc.html) to measure their dust levels. If you want to make one for less money (under $100) there is a thread on it in another forum. If you want a link PM me. Just because you aren't picking big boogers doesn't mean you are safe.

[Chris Parks]

It is one thing to have a high volume extractor hooked up to a machine but the real problem can be that the machine design does not allow maximum air flow because of internal restrictions and port size.

[dirk martin]

Dick are you measuring the dust levels in the shop to see how good that 1hp DC is at collecting the fine dust that is not easily seen and causes the health issues? Lots of people have the Dylos meters (http://www.dylosproducts.com/dc1100paqmc.html) to measure their dust levels. If you want to make one for less money (under $100) there is a thread on it in another forum. If you want a link PM me. Just because you aren't picking big boogers doesn't mean you are safe.


I am not measuring with a meter.
FYI, we also have a couple of ceiling hanging filter units, to assist....just in case.