Cut a thin slot by hand...

[sean contenti]

Good afternoon all-

I've decided to make myself a try square following the plans for the Bridge City version that PW has had on their site for a number of years.

https://22293-presscdn-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/PWM_Economaki_Square.pdf

I'm mentally walking through the operations necessary, and hoping to get some advice on slotting the square body to accept the brass blade.

JE's instructions have you attach a brass wear strip to the wood body, then slot the wood+brass together using a tablesaw. Now, as I'm not going to be using a tablesaw, I've been trying to come up with a way to do it accurately by hand. The blade is 1/8 brass stock, so I'd be looking to cut a slightly undersized slot, then finesse the blade with sandpaper for final fitting.

I have two competing thoughts, neither of which seems particularly well-suited to ease and accuracy. Both would involve *not* attaching either brass strip until the wood is notched, then epoxying the brass on and filing it open as a secondary operation.

So here are my ideas thus far...

1) Saw to one line with a dovetail saw, fix a scraper or a piece of veneer in the DT saw kerf, and saw again, relying in the scraper to push the saw over a little to widen the slot. Keep stuffing additional material in there to keep widening the slot as required. Found this idea on a luthier's forum.

2) Get my hands on a couple floats under 1/8 thick, and use them to cut/widen the notch as needed.

I'm hoping there's a better alternative out there that hasn't occurred to me...

Thanks!

EDIT: To add, option three would be "treat it like an itty bitty mortise, saw both lines and knock out the waste." I'm going to give this a shot in some scrap, but it feels like it's a thin enough notch that sawing to both lines could be troublesome.

EDIT AGAIN: Valid responses to this question include "You're overthinking this" and "That square is designed to be machine made. Doing it by hand is silly"

[Jeff Heath]

I think you are overthinking this. Layout your joint, and cut to your lines, like any other joint.

If you don't have a chisel skinny enough, Lie Nielsen sells a 1/10" mortise chisel, typically used by planemakers, that will work nicely in this application. Take your time.

I don't think it's silly at all to think you can do this by hand. Tools were made by hand for centuries before machines came along. If you're unsure of yourself, do a practice piece in some scrap wood the same size and layout as your finished stock.

[John Schtrumpf]

some other small chisels:

Ashley Isles round back 1/8", 1/16" (tools for working wood)
Veritas® Detail Chisels 1/8", 1/16" (lee valley)
Pfeil single bevel carving 3mm, 2mm (woodcraft)
Kumagoro (Ice Bear brand) chisels 3mm, 1.5mm (highland woodworking), there are probably other Japanese chisels that go that small.

[Jim Koepke]

Sean,

This is a fine project to learn a few techniques. Thanks for the link, wish my attention had be pointed at this article when my dovetail square was being made:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?251197-Dovetail-Checking-Square

If you do not have a bandsaw, you can likely rig up a guide for your hand saw something like a custom miter box.

Take pictures and show us your work.

One of my plans is to build a large try square. Learned a lot from making a small one that will make the next one better.

jtk

[sean contenti]

Jeff, John, Jim, Thanks for the comments.

The plan is, and always has been, to prototype one in beech before reaching for the billet of African blackwood I'm going to use for the final versions. It won't got to waste either - assuming it comes out sufficiently true, it's spoken for as a jobsite square by my father.

I'd say all of my agonizing over this thing are concerned with the final appearance ("fit and finish", if you like), and not the functionality. Can I hack out a notch in a chunk of wood, and pin the blade in there so it winds up being solid and square? Sure. No concerns on that front. Can I do the same while leaving no gapping, chipping, gouges, etc in both the brass binding and blackwood body? That's somewhat more questionable.

In some ways that's the point of this project. It's a very different scale than I'm accustomed to working on, so the fun is in stretching myself.

Jim - I do not in fact have a bandsaw in my current shop. Nor a tablesaw, chopsaw, router... You name it. They're all 500 km north in storage with my folks, so I'm limited here (by choice and necessity) to what I can do with handsaw, chisel, and plane :P

[Gerald Schram]

sean i think you should be ok putting the brass on the stock before you cut the slot for the beam. you could use a hack saw to cut either side of the slot and use a coping saw to get most of the waste out. jerry

[Jeff Heath]

While perfection is always, seemingly sought, it is rarely attained. If you do find yourself in a situation where you've got a gap between the beam and the blackwood, know that a little epoxy mixed with some black dye will render it invisible. Nothing wrong with a repair like that when you're done.

I used to get consumed with overthinking every new process for every project. I take a tremendous amount of pride in stamping my name on a commission before it leaves the shop to go to the customer, and I drove myself batshit crazy for years with this. After a while, you learn to calm the nerves and just do it, and trust your developed skills. In the end, I'm sure it'll turn out great. If not, make another. The fun is in the doing and learning.

Good luck, and post pics when you're finished.

[Simon MacGowen]

Would you consider the lamination approach? Planes rather than saws are used and we know planes are more precision tools than saws.

Simon

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree with Simon, after that you can file fit the brass.

[sean contenti]

Jeff - Very true. I like to think that the mental walkthroughs fall into the "ounce of preparation" camp, and that as long as I don't let the thinking get in the way of doing, then no worries. All of this pondering has been happening while I shave down spindles for a side chair, so I've got some time before I'd start making the square anyhow.

Simon, Brian - Now that's an interesting idea. That might be the route to take... Likely easier to take another shaving off the central lam vs. trying to pare or file out a small amount...

[Brian Holcombe]

Imo, not to throw a curveball but solid brass would work well for the handle. If you have a drill press you can make a serious of holes then clean and flatten the mortise with files.
Drill in toward center from both sides but work a set of reference lines for the mortise off of one face of the handle.

[sean contenti]

Was sent out of town for a few weeks to go look at some rocks, but back at it, getting the various bits and bobs all sorted.

Brian - Solid brass would certainly make a great handle, but it wouldn't be *this* square. And, the closest thing I have to a drill press within a 400 km radius is my deWalt 18v cordless :D

I did a little measuring, and unfortunately I don't think I have enough width of material to do the laminated approach, not within my personal comfort zone of error. I'll saw out the slot, *very* conservatively, and ease it with files to fit.


380860

[Bill Houghton]

Figure out how wide the part of the stock (what you're calling the body, I think) will be from slot to face. Plane a piece of wood that thick and large enough for your sawblade to rest on. Clamp the stock to the bench, with the part you're slotting facing onto the bench. Set your saw support on the bench, set the saw on the support, and saw away. If the brass is thicker than your sawkerf, flip the stock over and repeat for the other side (note that the saw will want to fall into the old kerf; if this is an issue, slip in a piece of veneer, as you suggested in your original post.

I can't take credit for this idea; just passing it on.

[Jim Koepke]

Figure out how wide the part of the stock (what you're calling the body, I think) will be from slot to face. Plane a piece of wood that thick and large enough for your sawblade to rest on. Clamp the stock to the bench, with the part you're slotting facing onto the bench. Set your saw support on the bench, set the saw on the support, and saw away. If the brass is thicker than your sawkerf, flip the stock over and repeat for the other side (note that the saw will want to fall into the old kerf; if this is an issue, slip in a piece of veneer, as you suggested in your original post.

I can't take credit for this idea; just passing it on.

Here is a post using what Bill describes to cut a slot for a blade in a saw handle:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?180712-Back-Saw-Build&styleid=3

This technique is older than any of us. For saws it is done with no set on the teeth so the kerf will be as close to the plate thickness as possible.

For making a square if a saw of the same width isn't available the slot could be made using a saw thinner than the square's blade and then the slot widened with sand paper.

jtk

[Rob Paul]

Make a saw, or set the teeth on an existing saw, to get the desired kerf width.
Then saw away.

[sean contenti]

381809

Plowed grooves for the two side wear strips, epoxying them, and the brass for the inside edge of the square onto the wood stock now.

Plowing the two grooves through this wood was a massive PITA, I'll say. Despite the fact that they're about six inches long, and 3/16 deep. The iron kept getting jammed along the sides, towards the end of the groove. There's just zero give to the material I think - most other woods will flex a bit to let the iron through, but not this stuff.

[sean contenti]

Out of the clamps, excess brass filed back. Next step on the agenda, the one that prompted the start of the thread.

381980

[Jim Koepke]

That is looking good.

jtk

[david beck]

Jim, i was looking thru the link you posted on making a saw handle and attaching it, great link thank you for posting that info. I got to one of his lines.... If I am going to split a line, a fatter pencil is in order.... omg i about spit coffee, i think all of us have felt that way at times lol.

[sean contenti]

Thanks Jim! I'm starting to feel like it's going to turn out reasonably well.

382281382282

The body is back in clamps now, epoxying the second, un-slotted, brass plate on the base. After that, it'll be cut down to length, and shape the ends of the handle.

[sean contenti]

All finished.
382772382773
There are a few things I'd do differently next time. First, I'd clock the screws in the top and bottom brass. Minor point, but the recesses pointing all over the map are a little obnoxious. Maybe even switch from screws to 1/8" steel pins, like the ones in the side wear strips. I ended up splitting out a bit of the wood putting in one of the screws, had to apply some remedial cyanoacralyte :D. Second, I'd use an epoxy with a little more flex to it. Used West Systems, since I've got it around, but I think something like West's G-Flex might have been a slightly more appropriate choice. Had a bit of an issue with the brass separating as I screwed it down - again nothing major, but something that would be easy enough to fix during another go round.

[Jim Koepke]

Very nice looking piece.

jtk