need advice on track saw related purchases for building built-ins at home [Archive]

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-15-2018, 11:23 PM

Hi Everyone,
I've been reading this forum the past two days collecting as much information as I can about track saws, accessories, and the Festool MFT/3 table. There's so much knowledge and experience here that I thought it a good idea to request some opinions on what I'm thinking about doing. Hoping folks can help.

Some background:
I purchased a house 2 years ago, completely gutted it, and have been remodeling it myself. It's been a very long process, with everything taking much longer than I initially think it will. I've finally finished installing all my hardwood floors and am getting to the stage of wanting to build some built-in cabinetry and shelving using plywood and face frames.

Relevant tools that I own for creating these built-ins include a Craftman 10" table saw, a Ridgid 10" Sliding Compound Miter Saw, Dewalt 15 Amp 7-1/4" Circular Saw, aluminum straight edges to use as guides for the circular saw, Dewalt 5" Random Orbital Sander, Kreg Jig R3, Dewalt Saw Horses, Ryobi Cordless drills (impact and regular), Ryobi Router, and Ridgid 14 Gal 6 HP Shop Vac with Dust Deputity. I have more tools, but I'm just trying to paint the picture that I probably have what's needed to get the job done. However.....

My process and workflow is a nightmare. This is because our garage is overrun with material while our construction is happening. I pretty much have to unbury my table saw and other tools and drag them out into the driveway to work. Here my table saw often doubles as my work bench, which is a giant pain. So step 1, obviously, is to clean the garage out. Fortunately, this is actually becoming a possibility now that so much of the material that's been in the garage has actually been moved into the house.

For step 2, I'd like to switch up the way I work. I've watched many videos and read many reviews and feel that the tracksaw and Festool MFt/3 Multifunction Table would suit my personality and provide more accuracy compared to what I get with my current method. Also, because I'll be working in my 2 car garage (which will eventually have cars in it, as well) I like the fact that this table folds up for easy storage.

So, after watching countless videos, and reading countless posts, I've put together a shopping list of items I think we could be good for a small garage workshop, which focuses mostly on building built-ins. Please let me know what you think.

1. Festtool MFT/3 Multifunction Table. $615.50
2. Festool TS 55 REQ Tracksaw. $560 (have wavered back and forth between this, Makita, and Dewalt like so many folks do!)
3. Woodpecker 1281R 12" x 8" Precision Woodworking Square. $109.99 (I seem to have a hard time getting things exactly square and am hoping this will help).
4. Makita 118" guide rail. $178.99 (I've read this is compatible with Festool and it's 1/2 the price as the Festool model. Can anyone comment about if this is working fine for them?)
5. Precision Dog Parallel Guides: $164.99
6. Festool 488030 Clamping Elelments (2-Pack): $118.
7. Festool 491594 Quick Ratcheting Clamp, 65/8" (2): $80.00
8. Was Super Pack (2 pairs of Qwas Bench Dog and 1 pair of rail dogs): $98.00

Grand total: $1926.47

Having never had an MFT/3 I'm not 100% confident in my choices for clamps (6, 7, and 8), but many posts seem to recommend these.

Also, I'm now thinking it might make things easier to add a 55" Guide Rail to use when crosscutting 4 x 8 sheets. I had originally left it off the shopping list to save money thinking I could use the 118" Guide Rail all of the time, but that's a pretty long guide, which might be cumbersome to use at times.

Two more things:
1) To save money I thought I would start out trying to use my Ridgid shop vac and dust deputy for dust extraction. Anyone have thoughts on this?

2) I would love to get the Domino and a Festool Router (for Dados and Rabbits), but that drives the cost up so much. Since I don't think I will get these to start, I'm thinking I will most likely use butt joints, glue, and pocket screws for all of my cabinet joints. I do have a Ryobi Router, which works better than I expected it to. It's possible I could use that for Dados and Rabbits, but I don't have a table for it. Not sure if I could somehow integrate that into the MFT/3. I also have a table saw, which can can use Dado bits (I've never done it), but I'm not sure if moving between the MFT/3 and the table saw is the sort of workflow I'm looking for.

Finally, it would be really cool if I could get rid of the table saw after making this purchase, as it takes up some space, but I'm sure there'll still be times when I want that.

Anyways - thanks for reading. Any feedback is appreciated. It's late and I'm beat - I truly hope this wasn't too rambling!

Thanks,
Rob

Mike Cary

02-16-2018, 12:20 AM

I guess you need to decide if you want the most bang for your buck or whether your ready to slide down the tool collecting rat hole. Before I start, let me say I have a domino, track saw, mft and festool router.

If you want a festool track saw, great, it will serve you well. But you don't need it. You have a dewalt circ saw, you can make a track with a straight piece of lumber and some plywood. The mft is nice but and expense gimmick, its just some mdf and extruded aluminum. Its not as portable as you might think, as a table its heavy. Again, if you want one great, but you can do as much with a couple of saw horses and some mdf. Here's why I'm being so negative. We dream that if we only had those wonderful things that gorgeous wooden monuments of art will pour out the other side and we will get our well deserved accolades. And when you get everything it doesn't happen. If you collect tools first and build projects later you always have tools you don't need and need tools you don't have.

If I had to do it again, and actually, the way I do it now is.. I plan a project and draw it out. I design or choose project based on my skill level, comfort level that is what work bias I have developed, and what my wife tells me to build :), what we need I meant to say. And what tools I have. I then buy or acquire tools as I need them. After all, Amazon delivers in 2 days. I have most of what I need now so I don't tap the account as much as I used to. Be careful not to get into that tool collection trap if you are a hobbyist working out of a 2 car garage. It really frustrates you eventually.

Okay back on topic, the mft comes with a short rail that you can use off the table. A long rail or rail connectors is almost necessary for sheet goods. The rail that comes with the mft connected to a 55 might be enough. I would want a 108. Any vac with the proper connection will work, the festool stuff is designed for construction (European construction specifically) and as such have good dust control. Also, lots of European woodworking is sheet stock centric. Festool works best on sheet goods. Pocket screws work great for cabinets. I've built a lot of cabinets early and pocket screwed the frames on. Now I work with hand tools mostly and solid wood. I hate sheet goods, routers and table saws now, but when I didn't I liked cutting rabbits and dados on the table saw and a dado stack more that using a router, but large pieces could ride up, so I ended up buying my first hand plane, a shoulder plane to clean them out and get uniform depth. Okay my response is getting too long.

One last note, the mft might not be as large a work surface as you think.

Mike

Doug Garson

02-16-2018, 2:17 AM

I suggest you have a look at Peter Mallard's "Ten minute workshop" on youtube. He works in a very small shop and builds mainly built-ins using plywood and MDF. His main tools are the Festool tracksaw and Domino. You might pick up some tips as well as help decide on your tool selection.

Wayne Cannon

02-16-2018, 3:04 AM

What Mike Cary said!

After recovering from cancer, I decided to get back into woodworking after a lot of moving in the Air Force. I thought I knew what I wanted, and I splurged and equipped my shop. Today, some of those tools just gather dust, while others have been replaced several times as I used them and discovered what better fit my style of work.

I recommend buying only what you need now in quantity and quality. I'll almost guarantee that you'll choose to add different tools and pay for different features/quality when you do. Buy quality, but don't be afraid to not buy the fanciest brand, and a cept that you may upgrade later. When you do, it'll probably be different than what you would choose now.

For example, even though I have a sliding table saw, it's more convenient to break down large sheets on sawhorses with a "track saw". My "tracksaw" is 50" and 98" edge clamps with a good quality circular saw & 1st rate carbide blade on a PTFE zero-clearance base designed to mate with the profile of the edge clamps. Carefully tweaking the saw's [blade] alignment yields a cut that is almost indistinguishable from the table saw, though entry & exit splinter slightly. Generally however, I rough cut slightly and trim to size on the table saw, where the fence makes duplicate widths much better. I've looked dreamily at the fancy "track saws" since day one, and a couple of generations since; but now I think their value added isn't that important for the way I work, so I spend my money elsewhere.

Rich Engelhardt

02-16-2018, 5:00 AM

My advice?
Forget the expensive track saw & goodies & stick your money into a 3 plus HP router and router table.

I admit, I used my Festool TS55EQ a whole lot putting together a kitchen a year or two ago, but, the router (Milwaukee 5625) was the real workhorse.

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 11:25 AM

Thanks for the replies guys.

Mike: Words of wisdom there, for sure! A couple of things: the tools I have now have been amassed on a per project basis. Table saw came when I needed to build a fireplace surround at the last house. Circular saw came when I finally realized I couldn't cut straight cuts with my very old, very cheap, Black and Decker saw. That circular saw made such a huge difference. I bought some aluminum straight edges that can be connected together to rip my 4 x 8. It works, but I'm, indeed, interested in the accuracy and repeatability that a track saw with parallel guides offers. I'm also a guitar player and some of what you wrote made me think of a term we use in that world called GAS - Gear Acquisition Syndrome! I fully admit, there's some of that going on here! :-) Finally, given that the MFT/3 comes with a 42" rail, maybe buying a 75" along with the connectors would be a wise choice (afraid 42 + 55 might be a hair too short?)

Doug: Thanks for the video suggestion. i just watched that and it was very inspiring. It got me thinking I might not want to fold up the MFT/3 and instead install it on a wall in the garage along with some benches at the same level on either side. Very cool.

Wayne: wow man, happy to hear you've recovered - that sounds scary. Your comment about buying quality, but not necessarily going with the fanciest brand resonates. The Dewalt and Makita tracksaws look nice, too, and can be had for less. Something to consider.

Rich: Thanks for the router advice. I definitely believe you on this point. I currently own an inexpensive Ryobi router (I think it's 8.5 amp 1.5 HP) and I've only done a few things with it so far including door hinges, strike plates, and rounding edges on some trim. I gotta say, routing edges of boards is one of the most satisfying things I've ever done. So far I've only done it by hand and I keep wishing I had a router table. And at some point, I won't doubt if I need to upgrade the router (come to think of it, last time I used it something was going on with the switch and it would suddenly pop to the off position. I had to hold it with my finger.)

I guess at this point, I really need to decide if I want to keep working with what I have or buy into the tracksaw and MFT/3 setup. I really like the videos I've seen using this setup.

Mike Hollingsworth

02-16-2018, 11:34 AM

DeWalt if 99% of the Festool for half the price.
I've got both.

andy bessette

02-16-2018, 11:50 AM

I would definitely buy the Festool track saw, but not the table and clamps (unnecessary).

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 11:52 AM

DeWalt if 99% of the Festool for half the price.
I've got both.
Wow. And it looks like the Dewalt is compatible with the Festool track, which means the Dewalt should work with the 42" Rail that's attached to the MFT. The author of this post appears to agree with you about the two saws being similar (and it's what I used to learn the tracks are compatible): http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/dewalt-dws520sk-vs-festool-ts55eq-long-with-pictures/ Not to sound too all over the map, but the 36V cordless Makita looks to fall in between the price of the Dewalt and the Festool - another interesting option.

Martin Wasner

02-16-2018, 11:55 AM

I owned a Makita. I think it's the best value out there.

I have a serious distaste for DeFalt/Black & Decker as a company, so they don't get my business typically.

I've used a few Festool Saws. They're nice, but I don't think they are that much better than the Makita.

I use a Mafell track saw. It's stupid expensive, but it's a very, very nice tool. The tracks are proprietary, which I don't care for, but it can be used on the Festool or Makita tracks. The Mafell tracks are much nicer. They're a bit narrower, and the joiner is pretty much idiot proof. One of the things I didn't like about my Makita was the long track. I always handled that thing with kid gloves because I was worried about damaging it. It's a long piece of flimsy aluminum.

Buckle up though. The saw, two 62" tracks, one more that is about 30" long, two clamps, one joiner, and a case for the tracks was $1500.

Worth it? Hard to say, but I really like using it over the other's that I have used.

Prashun Patel

02-16-2018, 12:58 PM

"...thinking I could use the 118" Guide Rail all of the time, but that's a pretty long guide, which might be cumbersome to use at times...."

I am completing a project using an EZ Smart 96" guide. You are right. It is tedious, awkward and a fatiguing to manipulate it more than you have to. Also, for cross cutting, it can cantilever in an awkward way.

For me, I don't think I could part with the tablesaw. My vote is to find a way to make it easier to get in and out when you need it.

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 1:14 PM

I just researched the Dewalt track saw a bit because the price point is so good and I like my Dewalt circular saw quite a bit. One issue, though, is I couldn't find a company making parallel guides for the Dewalt. I noticed a lot of guys make their own, but I don't really want to spend my time doing this. To me the parallel guides seem extremely useful, so perhaps this is a deal breaker on that.

"My vote is to find a way to make it easier to get in and out when you need it."
Yeah, this is something I've been thinking of working on. The saw has wheels, but they don't spin (haha) so I have to pick it up and carry it out to the driveway. It'd be cool to be able to easily wheel it out from the wall, connect a dust extractor, and run it in the garage. That said, I'm really liking the idea of a track saw for breaking down sheet good, and I need a work bench and better clamping system, which is what got me interested in the MFT/3. My guess is even with that stuff, I'd use the table saw from time to time.

Bryan Lisowski

02-16-2018, 2:08 PM

You got a lot of good advise, so I will chime in. If you buy the festool and vac/mft at the same time you get 10% off. I'm not a huge fan of the clamping elements, but do use them. There are other options.

If you look and don't mind a little wait, I believe you could order the Bosch track saw from Europe, the rails are the same as the standard Mafell rails Martin mentions. Also Triton has a track saw. I don't believe the dewalt saw will work on the festool tracks, because of the base of the saw. Makita will work, the Makita guide rail connectors are better and cheaper than festool and work fine.

If you go with the long Makita rail and decide on the festool saw, I would ask the dealer to swap the 55" rail that comes with the saw for the 75" rail and pay the difference. Or you could swap the 55" for the holy rail at no extra cost.

i tried the ridgid vac with the saw and forgot to turn vac on 70% of the time so I went with the ct vac. The mft isn't a super stable bench, but it does fold up for moving, the cross braces help.

The he whole thing with Festool is the system and does work well together.

Lester Sak

02-16-2018, 2:09 PM

Home Depot has a great deal right now on a cordless Makita track saw with 4 batteries, track, charger and 2 cases for $499.00 (save $319)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Makita-18V-X2-LXT-Lithium-Ion-36V-Brushless-Cordless-6-1-2-in-Plunge-CircularSaw-Kit-w-BONUS-5-0Ah-Battery-2Pk-and-GuideRail-XPS01BL18504368/303210342

matt romanowski

02-16-2018, 2:24 PM

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 2:29 PM

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 2:30 PM

"i tried the ridgid vac with the saw and forgot to turn vac on 70% of the time so I went with the ct vac."
Haha! I did this so many times while drum sanding my floors! :) Thanks for the advice.

"Home Depot has a great deal right now on a cordless Makita track saw with 4 batteries, track, charger and 2 cases for $499.00 (save $319)"
This seems like an incredible deal to me! I've just read the reviews on home depot, and this might be a really good way to go. One thing I'd like to do with the track saw is rip down 1.5" thick Ikea butcher block. I want to join 3 of these lengthwise (74"), which means I'll need to do 5 rips (4 to remove rounded edges and 1 more to finalize the overall width). I was a little concerned about a battery powered saw having enough power to do this, but it sounds like it could based on the reviews. Also, parallel guides are available and the saw will work in the festtool track, which means I could use it with the MFT/3 if I chose to buy that table.

One question about the Festool dust extractor: down the road, if I were to get one, what makes it automatically turn on? Does it turn on when an appliance plugged into it start running? If yes, I'm guessing the extractor would work with any power tool that plugs in, but not with a battery powered tool. Is my understanding correct? Is there a switch on the dust extractor to have it always on so it can be used with a battery powered tool?

julian abram

02-16-2018, 2:46 PM

I have the Dewalt, it's worked out great, seems like it was about $600 for both long and short rails, saw, 2 clamps and the metal bar that joins the rails. I'm sure the Makita is a great saw as well but is does not have the riving knife. Not a problem if you are only breaking down plywood but nice to have if you straight line boards once in a while.

Victor Robinson

02-16-2018, 2:47 PM

One question about the Festool dust extractor: down the road, if I were to get one, what makes it automatically turn on? Does it turn on when an appliance plugged into it start running? If yes, I'm guessing the extractor would work with any power tool that plugs in, but not with a battery powered tool. Is my understanding correct? Is there a switch on the dust extractor to have it always on so it can be used with a battery powered tool?

Yes, if on autostart mode, it will turn on when the tool that is plugged into it turns on. Otherwise you can just turn it on like a regular vac. It's also worth pointing out that there's nothing particularly special about Festool dust extractors. Quiet vacs with autostart are made by other companies too, including Fein. As with any Festool purchase, it's important to consider what you are actually getting for your money. You pay a premium for the features of the "system" - e.g. "I can stack my systainers on the vac!"

There is an aftermarket accessory made by RTS Engineering (Max-SYS) that gives the vac a remote functionality so you can clip a small remote to the end of the hose and not have to walk over to your vac when using a cordless tool, but we're probably getting ahead of ourselves here. Also, Festool has released vacs in the UK with Bluetooth functionality, though that has not made it to the US just yet.

If I were you, I'd hold off on purchasing a Festool vac until they include the new smooth hose, which is now standard in the UK (and EU?). Those should be coming over maybe later this year.

Peter Kelly

02-16-2018, 2:52 PM

If time / money are an issue, I'd recommend setting up an account with CabParts and ordering at least the boxes and drawers from them. Their quality is excellent and they'll even provide the correct door sizes if you're thinking of going with 5-piece instead of slab ones.

https://cabparts.com

Kitchens can get expensive easily. Save your money for the appliances.

Mike Cary

02-16-2018, 4:02 PM

You can buy auto switched and remote switches that will make any vac do the same thing as the Fein and Festool.

https://www.amazon.com/iVAC-10031-010-Automated-Vacuum-Switch/dp/B0035YGLZG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1518814888&sr=8-1&keywords=auto+switch+for+shop+vac

https://www.amazon.com/i-socket-110m-Tool-Vacuum-Switch/dp/B001BSL1BM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1518814936&sr=8-2&keywords=auto+switch+for+shop+vac

Edwin Santos

02-16-2018, 4:17 PM

Rob,
In case it might be helpful, you can check out my post on building your own saw tracks here (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?262294-Make-your-own-track-saw-tracks)
Edwin

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 4:25 PM

" Also, Festool has released vacs in the UK with Bluetooth functionality, though that has not made it to the US just yet."
Ha! So for a living I'm an engineer that specializes in Bluetooth and I was just walking around the house thinking I could make a wireless control for a vacuum! Glad to know there's stuff out there. Thanks.

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 6:38 PM

I would suggest the Makita track saw with the 55" and 118" tracks. Then add a TSO products squaring rig (I have all of these and they are great). Then get the Makita router attachment and you can use your Ryobi router for dados (it needs a peice of 3/16 plexi on the bottom to level it out). Buy an extra sheet of plywood and use that for a bench for now and start building! Oh, and don't forget to get clamps! Some pipe clamps (you're doing big stuff) and some smaller hand clamps.

This is what I'm leaning towards. I think I'll go the cordless route for the freedom. I'm really interested in the parallel guides, too. Have you tried those?

Thanks everyone. All of the replies have been valuable. I may post back with a question or two, and I'll post back when I pull the trigger, which might be this weekend.

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 6:49 PM

Anyone have experience with the Makita RP1800 3-1/4 HP Plunge Router? Looks like it's $50 off (will cost $233.99) at Tool Nut if I buy the Makita Tracksaw from them.

Nick Lazz

02-16-2018, 7:31 PM

+ 1 on Makita track saw. I have the 55” guide and really happy with the saw. The times I need to cut a piece of plywood or other sheet good lengthwise is virtually never.

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-16-2018, 8:47 PM

+ 1 on Makita track saw. I have the 55” guide and really happy with the saw. The times I need to cut a piece of plywood or other sheet good lengthwise is virtually never.
Awesome, that's the one I'm getting. I've got at least two projects where I think the long rail would come in handy: (1) ripping some 74" long butcher block and (2) cutting the sides of my built-ins, which will be about 60" tall. I imagine I'd rip the 48" x 96" down to 48" x 60" with the 55" guide rail, then use the 118" guide rail to rip 4 60" sides out of that.

Mike Cutler

02-16-2018, 9:25 PM

Rob

You've definitely got a lot of good advice, and as you see folks here aren't shy about spending other folks money.
To make your own cabinets is very satisfying. You get to control every phase and don't have to live with anything that is "standard".
To make cabinets you need to break down a 4'x8' sheet of cabinet grade plywood. This will take a nice saw with a good blade. The blade is probably more important than the saw, believe it or not. You need a straight edge to guide the saw. Here is where you need to make a decision.
Will you "rough cut" your plywood panels and then size them on your table saw? Most likely. Or will you try to to accurately cut them with a track saw only. You might try, but to hold the repeatability of a track saw over the dozens upon dozens of cuts you'll need to make will be taxing. You will probably end up with a hybrid of the two. Get as close as you can with the track saw, and then size them on the table saw. You're not doing a "one off", you're going into production. That table saw will be critical. Guaranteed. You might get rid of it after this project, but no way I'd get rid of it prior to the project.

Routers, you need two of them. I promise. To cut rails and stiles requires a bit set. Each router will have the complimentary set of cutters in it.One for rails, one for stiles. Once you get these set up to mate properly, I absolutely guarantee that you will not want to mess with them. Changing cutter sets, and resetting cutter heights, will kill you on time, and material waste. This doesn't even include incorporating a raised panel bit if necessary. into the equation. If you're making your own drawers, the same will hold true. There are a lot more parts in a cabinet than folks realize, until you make one.

I would personally go with a straight edge to use with your current circular saw and spend the saved money on high quality blades, high quality cabinet cutter sets, and that second router.
I've never seen any distinct advantage to an MFT table, but they are nice and ruggedly built. They wouldn't hurt your endeavor, that's for sure.

Routers. The big Makita should be fine. Remember, you need two of them.;)

Vac's. If you can afford it, get a nice vacuum. Fein, Festool, etc. You will not regret it. Your current setup will work in the garage, but it is nice to have a better vac in the house if necessary.

Clamps. You're going to need a lot of clamps for face frames and to pull cabinet parts together. Home Depot sells a line of Bessy parallels that are nice. Expensive, but nice.

One machine I'm not seeing is a planer. You might want to consider one. Controlling material thickness will go a long way towards improving your work flow, time and final result. Sanding to match differing material thicknesses, sucks big time.

Your work flow will go a long way towards determining your tool needs. Get that down, and things may clear up for you.

Also, don't be afraid to buy high quality tools. When you're done, you can sell high quality tools for more than lesser quality, and recover more of your upfront cost quicker. Something to consider.

andy bessette

02-16-2018, 9:42 PM

... I've got at least two projects where I think the long rail would come in handy...

Every time you buy lumber you will use the long track to straighten the first edge.

I have the 4-1/2', 6' and 10' Festool tracks.

matt romanowski

02-18-2018, 9:40 PM

This is what I'm leaning towards. I think I'll go the cordless route for the freedom. I'm really interested in the parallel guides, too. Have you tried those?

Thanks everyone. All of the replies have been valuable. I may post back with a question or two, and I'll post back when I pull the trigger, which might be this weekend.

I have the guides from Seneca as well. Those are nice too, but stay on a guide rail once set up.

For rails, for a long time I used two 55" together for long cuts. Works well when you don't have to do lots of cuts, but a bit of a pain when you need it frequently. I ended up buying the 118" rail.

Dave Sabo

02-18-2018, 11:44 PM

I second the outsourcing route. You’re going to need to make a lot of casework to underwrite 2grand worth of new tools.

Festool’s gee wiz system is already drawing the ire of a lot of faithful users for their implementation of the pairing and unpairing protocol. Even an engineer close to the program is on record questioning their choice. But the system is not even available here , and no word forthcoming as to when.

That said , Makita announced their Bluetooth system over a year ago and their Vac is cordless too ! So is their miter saw - something only Festool dreams about - along with brushless motors on those tools. And you can order one in the USA right now.

https://www.makitatools.com/aws

But hey, if you need an expensive led light or 16 different sanders you often can’t get abrasives for locally and a fanboy support network of the first order; then they’ve got you well covered.

Lots us of choices for high quality Vacs with tool triggers other than festool. Fein has been mentioned, but Metabo, Bosch, Mirka, Hilti, Nilfisk, Makita, DeWalt, and Sthil all have comparable units. Even Milwaukee is getting into the game.

Edwin Santos

02-18-2018, 11:58 PM

Every time you buy lumber you will use the long track to straighten the first edge.

Unless your lumber supplier offers lumber SL1E (straight lined one edge). In my market the cost premium of buying lumber this way is negligible, we're talking pennies, so it's a no brainer for the time you would save.

I can't help but add this - your original post contains a few clues suggesting money and budget is a consideration for you. If so, you should know that tooling up the way some have advised, and doing what you're proposing to do may be the single most expensive (and demanding) way to furnish your home with cabinetry and built-ins.

Of course, part of the calculus is determining what your time is worth, how much time you have, what your learning curve might be, whether there is any kind of deadline involved, whether you're going to be paying retail pricing for materials, whether you love woodworking, and whether you want to continue to love woodworking.

I'm not trying to talk you out of anything or be negative. Just go forward with open eyes.
Edwin

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-19-2018, 1:10 PM

Unless your lumber supplier offers lumber SL1E (straight lined one edge). In my market the cost premium of buying lumber this way is negligible, we're talking pennies, so it's a no brainer for the time you would save.

I can't help but add this - your original post contains a few clues suggesting money and budget is a consideration for you. If so, you should know that tooling up the way some have advised, and doing what you're proposing to do may be the single most expensive (and demanding) way to furnish your home with cabinetry and built-ins.

Of course, part of the calculus is determining what your time is worth, how much time you have, what your learning curve might be, whether there is any kind of deadline involved, whether you're going to be paying retail pricing for materials, whether you love woodworking, and whether you want to continue to love woodworking.

I'm not trying to talk you out of anything or be negative. Just go forward with open eyes.
Edwin

Hi Edwin,
I appreciate the comments and agree with them - you don't sound negative to me. Everyone's input is helpful. I'm going to try addressing your comment. Hopefully it won't be too wordy and you'll get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

First of all, I'm a pretty do-it-yourself kind of guy. That said, I do try to balance this with hiring things out that I don't have time or interest for. For example, we bumped our kitchen out 6 feet (20' x 6') and even though I could do the foundation work (I worked for a brick layer for a few years when I was younger) the framing, and the drywall, I opted to hire someone to do these things (and hired someone to spray foam insulation and move some plumbing). I, on the other hand, gutted the kitchen (removed cabinets and soffit containing electrical, removed old pantry walls, and removed old floor) and did the electrical (I'm an electrical engineer so wanted to do this). I also installed the hardwood floors and my wife painted the interior. In fact, today we are hanging ship lap in a portion of the ceiling which is higher and cathedral. Rather than build cabinets for the kitchen, we ordered them (they arrive next week!) and I'll be installing those and building some of the island, as well as gluing some butcher block pieces together for the island's counter top. To me, this balance of building some things myself and buying some prebuilt things, along with hiring some labor and doing some things myself makes the most sense economically (and I mean that in terms of time and money).

As far as the expense of the tools, I'm just trying to spend wisely. I'm not so much limited by a maximum amount to spend per say, as I am by my own self trying to maximize value. For example, someone had voiced their opinion that the Dewalt tracksaw was 99% as good as the Festool at 1/2 the cost. This is the sort of stuff I'm trying to take into consideration. Also, this stuff will pay for itself in a few ways. (1) my wife doesn't really like having contractors in the house (no offense to any of you!!!) So if I build the cabinets myself it avoids this. Happy wife, happy life. (2) My wife is a really good designer by nature and usually designs the stuff we build. We work together well and end up with exactly what we want. (3) I have a lot of built-ins to do here, and potentially the next house, my daughter's house when she's older, etc.... it's a skill I can use for life for sure and I want to get better and better at it and having an efficient workflow will go a long way.

Just a little more regarding my DYI projects:
I remodeled my last house over 12 years. This included refinishing the existing kitchen cabinets, adding on to the existing island by building a bookshelf on the back side and butcher block on the top, new wood floors and recessed lighting throughout the house, a wall mounted entertainment center, walk-in shower, and many more things. We purchased our recent home two years ago. It's in a neighborhood we love, has good bones, but was extremely outdated. So the day I bought it I had a dumpster for 18 days and we completely gutted 2600 sq ft of living space. Over the last two years I've done more DYI that I care to mention (and you care to read), but some stuff includes installing windows and sliding glass doors, cedar siding, hardwood flooring, tile, drywall, baseboard, gas fireplace, chimney cap, insulation, and water softener and filter. I've also moved walls and raised beams over doorways flush into the floor above to hide them. I also rebuilt a staircase and a stair railing, and so on. My only point here is I'm not going into this completely blind.

Again, I do appreciate your response, so thank you.

Edwin Santos

02-19-2018, 2:44 PM

Hi Edwin,
I appreciate the comments and agree with them - you don't sound negative to me. Everyone's input is helpful. I'm going to try addressing your comment. Hopefully it won't be too wordy and you'll get a better understanding of where I'm coming from.

Again, I do appreciate your response, so thank you.

Hi Rob,
Thanks for this background, and I would say you've thought it through very well and you are more than experienced enough to know what you're dealing with. In fact, in your case I'd find the higher grade, higher price tools justifiable because you will surely get your money's worth out of them.

Getting back to Gear Acquisition Syndrome, I don't know what facilities you have for finishing. If you're currently restricted to hand applying, then I would vote for considering a good HVLP spray system on your list. I have a Fuji Q4 which has paid for itself over and over. Whether your work will be painted, stained or natural, spray finishing rocks for larger projects and especially trim. If you're already spray finishing, then you're set. Good stuff!

Greg R Bradley

02-19-2018, 3:51 PM

A Dewalt tracksaw isn't 99% as good as the Festool unless your needs coincide with the short list where the Dewalt has an advantage over Festool. I would say the same for Makita. The Festool isn't anything even close to twice the price of either Dewalt or Makita.

Dewalt tracks are different than everyone else but the saw itself has a second channel to ride on the Festool standard, which also includes Makita. So the Dewalt will ride on Festool/Makita tracks but not the other way around. Just like you can buy a Mafel and use it on their tracks and also on the Festool/Makita Standard.

The easy choice for me for a less expensive saw was the Makita SP6000. It has a bit more power than the Festool but doesn't have a riving knife, the off-side anti-splinter and doesn't have the Festool Plug-it cord. To be clear, I bought a Festool 30 years ago, then when they upgraded to the better track system, I felt I couldn't justify the price and went with a Makita, then upgraded to a Festool, then added a second personal Makita. So I have and use the Festool and Makita personally and have a Makita in a business.

The expensive Makita cordless and corded vac is expensive and not very powerful on batteries. It is also tiny in capacity. It's market is going to be someone that has real vacs and has to have cordless for OSHA requirements. Similar to their cordless backpack vac.

Ikea butcher block will be a disaster if you try to cut them. They have voids and are held together with lots of metal. Look elsewhere.

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-19-2018, 4:01 PM

Hi Rob,
Getting back to Gear Acquisition Syndrome, I don't know what facilities you have for finishing. If you're currently restricted to hand applying, then I would vote for considering a good HVLP spray system on your list.
Funny you mention this! I was just reading reviews of these online thinking about how sweet it'd be to spray these built-ins as well as the baseboard and casing I've yet to install on the first floor! I was on rocker's site buying a dust extraction hose and noticed this one was on sale. Any chance you've heard anything about this rockler HVLP? http://www.rockler.com/rockler-finishing-sprayer-with-spare-paint-cup-and-lid I researched this a couple of years ago and read great stuff about the Fujis - maybe I'll look into those again. Thanks!

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-19-2018, 4:16 PM

Greg R Bradley

02-19-2018, 4:45 PM

Regarding the cordless Makita, the one I'm looking at takes 2 18V batteries to run at 36 V. Toolnut is selling the saw, 4 batteries, and a 55" rail for $499. All the reviews I've seen are really good (28 5 stars on Toolnut, great reviews elsewhere, too). Is this the saw you're referring, too?

At the moment I've got my cart loaded with that Makita package, an 118" Makita guide rail, and the router adapter. All of this for $715, seems pretty good to me.

Regarding the butcher block, I cut this in my last home and it turned out perfectly. There was no metal in those. You have me worried that something has changed. It'd be really scary to be sawing along and encounter some metal. I wonder if you're referring to a different product? They sell standard, end-grain, glued butcher block (which is what I'll use), but they also sell other table tops that look like butcher block, but really have fillers in them. Maybe you're referring to these?
The corded/cordless Makita I'm referring to is the VACUUM. If you are going to have a cordless saw, you would need that vac in order that the saw can turn on the vac. I would try it in person like I did and make up your own mind. We were looking at them in a heavy construction company due to the new vacuum requirements when drilling masonry.
Link: https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XCV08Z

The BB that had the problem was sold as countertops. It was around 10 years ago. Perhaps they upgraded the product. I just know lots of people posted info on ruining tools at that time.

I can see a Makita cordless track saw being heavy with two batteries. BTW, I love my Makita 2x18v Chainsaw and Blower so not against the setup in general. It just seems like a tracksaw isn't such a big advantage being cordless since you have a vac hose anyway.

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-19-2018, 4:52 PM

The corded/cordless Makita I'm referring to is the VACUUM. If you are going to have a cordless saw, you would need that vac in order that the saw can turn on the vac. I would try it in person like I did and make up your own mind. We were looking at them in a heavy construction company due to the new vacuum requirements when drilling masonry.
Link: https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XCV08Z

The BB that had the problem was sold as countertops. It was around 10 years ago. Perhaps they upgraded the product. I just know lots of people posted info on ruining tools at that time.

I can see a Makita cordless track saw being heavy with two batteries. BTW, I love my Makita 2x18v Chainsaw and Blower so not against the setup in general. It just seems like a tracksaw isn't such a big advantage being cordless since you have a vac hose anyway.

Oh, the vacuum... I see - thanks. To be honest, I had the same thought about the saw.... what's the point in going cordless with power if you've still got to hook a hose up to it?! That said, the package deal is really good and having one less cord might be a good thing? Also, I had heard the Makita power cord is short - at least this would get around that. I hadn't considered the weight. Lots of pros and cons....

Edit: I'm probably over analyzing now, but I could buy the corded Makita and put a longer power cord on it if its length is really a problem.

Edwin Santos

02-19-2018, 6:32 PM

Funny you mention this! I was just reading reviews of these online thinking about how sweet it'd be to spray these built-ins as well as the baseboard and casing I've yet to install on the first floor! I was on rocker's site buying a dust extraction hose and noticed this one was on sale. Any chance you've heard anything about this rockler HVLP? http://www.rockler.com/rockler-finishing-sprayer-with-spare-paint-cup-and-lid I researched this a couple of years ago and read great stuff about the Fujis - maybe I'll look into those again. Thanks!

Rob,
Sorry, I don't know much about that particular Rockler HVLP unit. However, I notice they mention Earlex being involved in it. A couple of years ago Fine Woodworking gave a Best Buy rating to the Earlex 5500 HVLP and I have a friend who has one that loves it. It's more expensive than the Rockler, and looks to have a better gun, more professional build, but at a much lower price point than the Fuji or Apollo systems. Look at the CFM/PSI specs. More is better. The PSI is not listed on the Rockler page but the reviews look positive.
Edwin

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-20-2018, 7:56 PM

Home Depot sells a line of Bessy parallels that are nice. Expensive, but nice.

Wow. I just looked those up on Home Depot's website. They have a video that illustrates the functionality of these clamps and I'm sold. I have some smaller C clamps, and one handed Irwin bar clamps, but I've been wanting something like these Bessy parallels. Thanks for the tip.

All your other comments are helpful, too. Thanks for those.

Mike Goetzke

02-22-2018, 10:08 AM

Oh, the vacuum... I see - thanks. To be honest, I had the same thought about the saw.... what's the point in going cordless with power if you've still got to hook a hose up to it?! That said, the package deal is really good and having one less cord might be a good thing? Also, I had heard the Makita power cord is short - at least this would get around that. I hadn't considered the weight. Lots of pros and cons....

Edit: I'm probably over analyzing now, but I could buy the corded Makita and put a longer power cord on it if its length is really a problem.

Rob - good luck with your project. About 6 years ago I remodeled our living room, dinning room, and kitchen into one great room by myself (weekends and after work). Lot of tear down and rough construction. I had a 10' x 5' island, and around 30' "L" of cabinets. Suggest you get help. My project lasted almost 2-years and burned me out pretty good. End result was better than expected so well worth the effort.

On the cabinet build I used my track saw system for almost all of the cabinet build. My system was Eurekazone and I used corded Makita saws. I have a Festool vac but ended up using my large shopvac. I had to flip the switch as needed but wasn't a big deal. The cord really is a pain constantly getting hooked on the rail and such. The hose is big enough to find it's way around most obstacles plus I hung it from the ceiling. If your not a pro, I'm not, get used to thinking in production mode - do repetitive cuts all at once. Build a drying rack to hold the cabinet parts if you end up finishing them yourself. etc.

I decided to pull the trigger on the Makita track saw system plus 118" rail since I've been slowly getting rid of my E-Z stuff. I have almost every 18V-LXT cordless tool Makita offers and some of my batteries are probably 10+ years old so the 4-5AHr battery package was the deal swinger for me. It's supposed to be delivered today - can't wait. I looked at the TSO square. Looks nice but almost $200! I resisted - for now. Will look for reasonable alternatives.

Mike

William M Johnson

02-22-2018, 12:49 PM

I am going to offer my $0.02 worth here. I recently completed a major remodel of my house and changed out all the the yellow oak to mahogany. I started out with the usual table saw, miter saw, router and Kreg jig. During the process, my processes evolved. Including buying a molder, shaper, tracksaw and hand planes.

Below is a synopsis of what I learned.

Any tracksaw is better than any table saw for breaking down sheet goods. Oops I feel the flamethrowers warming up. A couple of caveats to that statement , I worked alone in a small shop. I had a PM66 with an Excalibur Slider. It was good but I got tired of lugging the plywood around. It was dangerous even though I fitted a SharkGuard and blade guard. It spewed sawdust even though I had an overarm suction. It also left tool marks on each cut.

I bought the EZ Smart System and although it was far from perfect it became apparent that it was much better for my purposes than the table saw. It had several limitations that I won't go into here, since nobody has yet recommend it. At this point I knew nothing about Festool other than it was over priced and kind of cheap looking. After doing some research I decide to buy the TS55 and sold my EZ Smart. At the time there was only about $100 price difference between all the competing track saws.

This purchase changed my life. The only thing I see people talking about when comparing the different models is price. I think this is grossly misleading . The TS55 does several things that I think you need to consider before purchasing another brand.

1. No Tool Marks
2 No tear out
3. Very little saw dust.

I don't know why nobody mentions these issues, because if your saw doesn't handle them it is a lot more work to correct these issues . Every cut with my PM66 or EZ Smart left tool marks that had to be removed either with sand paper or hand plane (more on this later). I have not used any of the other brands but I would make sure that any you are considering leave a "finish ready" edge after the cut. My edges with the Festool are so good that I put my jointer in storage. I now joint exclusively with the TS55. It is faster, safer and does a better job than my American made PM jointer. I have built several tables using the TS55 for the jointing. There is no touchup required, no gaps and I don't risk fingers.

The TS55 has an easily replaceable strip on the track and I assume that the others do as well. My question is, have you checked with your dealer to see if they carry replacement strips. Every Festool dealer I have seen has the replacements on the shelf available for sale. The TS55 also has a "cut to fit" tear out preventer on the saw itself. I have not noticed this on any of the other brands. This is also replaceable and available. I have never seen a replacement for a DeWalt or Makita, I am not sure if they have this feature or not. Tearout on cabinet grade ply is a big deal, why take a chance?

I hate sawdust, now. When I started this project I didn't know any better. I bet I breathed 10 lbs of sawdust and I got sick because of it. The TS55 produces very little saw dust. Not perfect but a whole lot less that any tablesaw or the EX Smart set up I had. I now don't tolerate saw dust in my workshop. Use a HEPA filter if you are using a shop vac. The tiny particle get spewed out of the standard shop vac filter like a fog. These small particles are much more problematic that chips.

The MFT was a tougher decision as it seemed like a really overpriced table, as other posters have mentioned. Today it is without a doubt the most used tool in my shop. I never take it down because I use it so much. Yes there are much cheaper ways to get the job done, but for portability and flexibility it cannot be beat. I have most of the clamping elements except the ratcheting clamps (the screw type work fine). I use the table for cutting, sanding, glueups etc. I would not be without it. BTW I also have a 7' long Roubo bench that now hardly ever gets used. The only weak spot on the MFT, besides price, is you cannot hand plane on it. I now have 2 of them. You can tie them together for large cabinets glueups or for handling a full sheet of plywood.

There are a couple of other tools I found mandatory for sheet goods.

Woodpecker 1281 - this is probably the second most used tool in the shop
Woodpecker TS24 - If you are going to use a track saw this is mandatory. A truly great tool for those jobs
Kreg Jig - Mandatory for the boxes and really nice for attaching face frames etc

Now I'm really going to step in it. In my experience you cannot make "furniture grade" cuts with any 12" sliding miter saw. You will not cut true angles and you will have tool marks that require hand work to remove. I fought this making about 50 raised panel drawer fronts and doors. I built my Roubo and spent a large fortune on hand planes in order to get the quality of fit I needed. No matter how well set up I just could not get any of the brands available at Home Depot to cut true and smooth. The hand planes were great but slow. Then I found the Kapex. They are ridiculously expensive, arguably unreliable and not what I would choose to build a deck or frame a house. They are however amazingly accurate on the cuts and the cuts are smooth. The first cut I made was on 8/4 walnut. Just to see what it would do I plunged in and out 3 times on a 8" wide board before finishing the cut. When I looked at it I almost passed out. It was shiny. I don't mean it was smooth it was shiny ready for finish. And it was exactly 90 degrees.

My point in bringing this up is that you need to consider how much rework you are willing to do to save a couple of bucks.

Let the flaming begin

Bill

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-23-2018, 5:02 PM

Hi Bill,
I enjoyed reading your post, and as I've said a few times now, I've found everyone's posts extremely useful. And you're obviously way more experienced at this stuff than I am, so hopefully my response isn't too far off the mark :)

First of all, I actually purchased my MFT/3! One came up on Craigslist near me for $500, which was barely used at all. New they are $685, so I went for it! And I purchased 4 Qwas dogs!

Clamps is a tough decision. I know it makes sense to buy them as I need them (and to some extent I will), but I'd like to get a decent kit to start. I'm thinking of getting 2 of the Festool Ratcheting Quick Clamps, 2 of the Festool Screw Clamps (4-11/16"), and 4 50" Bessey Parallel Clamps. Hoping this will be enough to get me going.

The Precision Dog Mount with Kreg Automax Clamp looks appealing, but there seems to be some debate on whether or not these put too much strain on the table, so I've not decided on that yet. I also have my trusty shelf liner pad that I find works terrific for holding objects in place while sanding so I'm not too interested in the Festool Clamping Elements. Additionally, I own 2 Kreg right angle clamps, one Kreg face clamp, a few Irwin one handed bar clamps in various sizes, some jaw clamps, and some old metal C clamps.

Regarding the cordless Makita track saw - I hear nothing but good about it so I think I'm going to give it a shot. If it doesn't meet expectations I figure I can exchange it for the Festool. I'll look very closely at the items you mentioned: tool marks, tear out, and saw dust. Based on reviews and videos I've watched I really expect it to do well in all 3 categories. Also, assuming it does well, if down the road for whatever reason I need another track saw I can consider the Festool then, when I'm a more informed customer. If I did change over I could list my Makita on Craigslist or give it to my brother, who's always wanted a track saw.

A few comments about why I'm going cordless:
I feel like having one less cord will suit me (I'll still have a hose connected to a dust extractor). I actually asked a guy that owns a corded Makita if he thought buying a cordless one would be silly given you're still tethered to a dust collector and he actually thought having one less cord would be nice. Oh - and he had extended the length of his Makita's power cord (some have complained they're too short).

One poster commented that he'd be concerned about the weight of the cordless saw with two batteries. I'm a pretty strong dude, so I'm not worried about that. (I'm totally kidding....) I watched a video comparing the saws and the person comparing them said they had similar weights. I'm not too worried about weight. Seems like the bigger TS75 might be heavier and some guys use that just fine.

Toolnut stocks the Makita Splinter Guard strips, as well as the non-slip strips. Not that this detail matters (and it could be inaccurate information), but I even came across one post on FOG (or maybe here) in which a couple of guys (or maybe one - I'm not going to bother looking it up right now - please don't make me - I've read way too many forum entries driving myself mad researching all of this stuff) said they preferred one of these strips over the Festool (as in they put the Makita strip on the Festool track).

Regarding Dust Collection, my plan is start with what I have, which is a Ridgid SNR 12 Gallon Shop Vac, with a hepa filter, and a Dust Deputy. In the future I might be interested in upgrading to a Fein or Festool dust extractor. Oh and I'm purchasing this Rockler hose, which looks nice: http://www.rockler.com/dust-right-universal-small-port-hose-kit (in case the link doesn't work it's the Dust Right Universal Small Port Hose Kit). It expands from 3 to 15' long and has rubber attachment points that slide onto the tool and grip it nicely.

As of right now, I'm about to pull the trigger on: Makita Cordless Tracksaw kit (comes with 4 batteries and a 55" guide rail), Makita 118" Guide Rail, 2 extra stop flags for the MFT/3, router adapter guid for the guide rail, slop stop for the MFT/3, 2 Festool screw clamps 4-11/16", 2 festool quick ratcheting clamps (these seem stupid expensive to me), the dust hose, 4 50" Bessey Parallel Clamps, 4 of the Bessey KP Blocks, double sided tape to make my own parallel guides as shown in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idAfnNIQ5H4&t=1s). And now of course I need to look put the Woodpecker tools you've recommended!

I really was glad to read your EZ Smart comments because that was a contender for me, as well, during my initial research stage. I threw it out of the running pretty early though because a track saw simply really appeals to me.

Two of your comments have me really looking forward to my purchases! "Any tracksaw is better than any table saw for breaking down sheet goods." and Today it (the MFT/3) is without a doubt the most used tool in my shop."

Cheers,
Rob

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-23-2018, 5:12 PM

Damnit Bill - those Woodpecker squares look really nice!

By the way, one item I've reluctantly decided to forgo for now is the GRS-16 Parallel Edge Guide Rail Square. To me this look really handy; however, all of my crosscuts for my first few projects should fit on the MFT/3 and I want to get as much out of that table as I can since I own it now!

Lisa Starr

02-23-2018, 5:56 PM

Rob Wolfbrandt

02-23-2018, 6:32 PM

Bill - while all those tools would be wonderful, you can make great cabinetry with much, much less. I have built a whole kitchen full of cabinets with inset drawers/doors using the following. Decent circular saw with great blade and bora straight edge clamp. I use these for breaking down plywood only. I cut all pieces oversize when breaking down the sheets and then run them thru the table saw to take them to exact size. Plan ahead and make all the same size cuts at the same time. Kreg Pocket Hole jig, Cordless Drill, Glue and wide variety of pipe clamps. While not as nice as the parallel clamps, they work and a few heads will get you a long way. The 1/2" black pipe is cheap. Decent square. Your table saw or other flat surface will work for an assembly table. Be sure you check and double check each cabinet is square when you assemble it. Once the carcases are assembled, switch into face frame mode. I rough cut the members to length + 1" or 2" on the miter saw and then rip to width. Cut pieces to final length per your story pole. Assemble with story pole for layout, pocket holes and glue.

I guess my point is you can do a nice job with reasonable tools, a nice job with great tools, or a crappy job with the very best tools. It is the craftsman, not the tools that make the job. Hope you have lots of fun on this project. As a fellow home gut renovator, I understand the projects get long. But...nothing beats the satisfaction of a job well done.

Hi Lisa, I know you addressed this to Bill (I wonder if you meant to address it to me as the originator of this thread?), but wanted to say I totally believe and support your comments! I built built-ins at my last house using the tools I had (table saw, miter saw, good straight edge with circular saw and so on) and they turned out great. There's a voice in the back of my head saying "you don't need any new tools!". That said, I'm looking forward to trying a new process, and I've been interested track saws for a while. And my lack of work bench is bad. It leads to lots of frustration when I try assembling things. And while there are many work benches that would work, the dog style tables look cool to me so I'm wanting to try those. I actually wanted to build one, but due to time constraints I decided to grab the MFT/3 off craigslist.

BTW, this seems similar to one of my other hobbies to me. I've played guitar for over 30 years. I have about 10 or so. Honestly, I probably need one. But I some days I reach for one, and other days I reach for another. In a way I think the tools will be this way. I'll still own a circular saw and straight edge. My guess is I'll reach for the track saw more, but if I want to I can grab the circular saw and straight edge. Who knows - maybe somethings will call for that that. Table saw will likely be there, too. Know what I mean? (For the record, I don't think I could only have one... I was using little exaggeration to make my point :)

You made great points - thanks.