Help me Pick a New Lathe

[Kent Cori]

Well my venerable Harbor Freight HF34706 lathe has finally bitten the dust. :eek: The adjustable sheave unit had a melt down and I don’t feel it is worth replacing on a $180 lathe. The fact that I just took a bowl turning course from David Ellsworth and was able to use his Poolewood lathes might have something to do with this decision. :o

While I can’t justify a Poolewood or similar high end lathe, I do want to get something that will meet my amateur wood turning needs for the next 20 years or so. I turn mostly small bowls (12” or less), platters and pens. I have no desire to turn hollow forms or a bowl large enough to hold a Volkswagen Beetle.

I’ve narrowed my choices down to two: the Jet 1642 2hp and the Powermatic 3520B. The Jet will run $2000 delivered while the Powermatic will be $2800. Both have similar features and motors. Both have a headstock that can be moved to the end of the ways. However, the Powermatic is heavier/stouter and has an extra four inches of swing capacity.

My quandary is, should I spend the extra $800 on the Powermatic? What say ye? :confused:

[John Miliunas]

Kent, just MHO but, it appears to me that the turning bug has you right where it likes to have you! Seems that you most probably "willed" that poor ole HF to die, just so you could upgrade! :D If you're looking at expanding your turning horizons and, you can financially swing it, I'd definitely go with the PM! Now, I know a LOT of folks are perfectly happy with the Jet and I know a couple guys with one. But, the extra swing and heft of the PM is something you will come to appreciate as your pieces get larger and more intricate.:) :cool:

[Andy Hoyt]

Go with the powermatic. There may be a (now outdated) model A still available somewhere and this will certainly lower the price delta considerably.

[Ed Lang]

My first suggestion is the white one from up North but the second choice would be the mustard colored one.

When you say for the next 20 years...... go PM and be happy for 20 years!

[Ed Lang]

My first suggestion is the white one from up North but the second choice would be the mustard colored one.

When you say for the next 20 years...... go PM and be happy for 20 years!


WOW! I just read another post about double postings with the same post number and look here... it did it to me.

I think it must be something in the water.

[Carole Valentine]

Go with the PM. You say you have no desire to do hollow forms. Uh huh...we'll see!:D

[Mark Cothren]

Dennis talked me into going with the 3520A and I'm VERY glad he did. I don't know anything about the Jet, but know that I liked Dennis' yellar dawg and I also like mine just fine.

I think either way you'll be happy...:D

Good luck!

[Cecil Arnold]

Check with Dennin Peacock for Southern Tool, they will make you a great price on the PM3520, saved me $500 under the best local price (which included tax).

[Fred Ray]

Kent:
Only two reasons not to buy the 3520B:
1. There is no way you can afford it.
2. You can afford the Oneway, Stubby, Poolewood or other high end lathe.

Sounds to me like you have your answer.:)

Wish I could afford it.:(

[Jim Becker]

If you can "swing" the PM, the larger machine will offer you a lot more utility over time...and new Poolewoods are no longer available anyway.

...and you were in the neighborhood with David and didn't tell me?? I'm only 20 miles from there! Sheesh!!! ;) :DD

[Travis Stinson]

I've upgraded twice in the past 2 years and I don't think I'll ever ask for more than my PM3520 can deliver.;). Rock solid and dependable.

[Bob Oswin]

Well my venerable Harbor Freight HF34706 lathe has finally bitten the dust. :eek: The adjustable sheave unit had a melt down and I don’t feel it is worth replacing on a $180 lathe. The fact that I just took a bowl turning course from David Ellsworth and was able to use his Poolewood lathes might have something to do with this decision. :o

While I can’t justify a Poolewood or similar high end lathe, I do want to get something that will meet my amateur wood turning needs for the next 20 years or so. I turn mostly small bowls (12” or less), platters and pens. I have no desire to turn hollow forms or a bowl large enough to hold a Volkswagen Beetle.

I’ve narrowed my choices down to two: the Jet 1642 2hp and the Powermatic 3520B. The Jet will run $2000 delivered while the Powermatic will be $2800. Both have similar features and motors. Both have a headstock that can be moved to the end of the ways. However, the Powermatic is heavier/stouter and has an extra four inches of swing capacity.

My quandary is, should I spend the extra $800 on the Powermatic? What say ye? :confused:

For the kind of money your are willing to spend you should definetly try to rule out a OneWay. Simply the best machines on the planet.


Bob

[Jim Becker]

For the kind of moeny your are willing to spend you sould definetly try to rule out a OneWay. Simply the best machines on the planet.

That would increase the bill substantially, even for the 1640. OneWay's machines are extremely well engineered and made, but when you get into the $3200 to start and up range, as you do in this case with their line, there are a number of very competitive options from known vendors and two new manufacturers, I believe, that were introduced to the world at the AAW Symposium in KC this summer. For the money, the PM3520 series really is a lot of bang for the buck! I own a Stubby (which for me was the "best machine on the planet" :) ), but would happily turn on the PM all day long--it's a great tool and the new version adds nice feature improvements. I'll go so far to say it's the best "mass market" lathe available right now. (OneWay, Stubby, Vicmark, etc, are all custom made and are in a different class of machine.

That all said...a serious turner really should consider the additional investment up front for a custom lathe to avoid the most certain "move up" later on!

[Bob Oswin]

That would increase the bill substantially, even for the 1640. OneWay's machines are extremely well engineered and made, but when you get into the $3200 to start and up range, as you do in this case with their line, there are a number of very competitive options from known vendors and two new manufacturers, I believe, that were introduced to the world at the AAW Symposium in KC this summer. For the money, the PM3520 series really is a lot of bang for the buck! I own a Stubby (which for me was the "best machine on the planet" :) ), but would happily turn on the PM all day long--it's a great tool and the new version adds nice feature improvements. I'll go so far to say it's the best "mass market" lathe available right now. (OneWay, Stubby, Vicmark, etc, are all custom made and are in a different class of machine.

That all said...a serious turner really should consider the additional investment up front for a custom lathe to avoid the most certain "move up" later on!

I didn't think that $3200 was all that far off $2800 Jim?
It still is the standard by which all other lathes are measured and the resale value is legendary.
If you went to buy one today the wait time is usually 3 -4 months.
I am not saying that one shouldn't consider these other lathes but rather, you should consider all the machines equally and make a decision.

At any rate, with the US dollar in free fall it might be wise to stick with a domestic product right now.

Regards
Bob

[Earl Eyre]

The PM 3520A is going for 2295 at Southern Tool, free freight. I haven't seen the B but many people, including me, think the A is just great. 2250 is a no brainer over the Jet--my opinion. I bought mine from Southern Tool and it came exactly when they promised, even rolled it right into my garage for me--but I understand that is probably up to the local delivery company.

Earl

[Chris Barton]

Hi Kent,

Almost a year ago I was in the same situation as you except, I was not replacing a broken lathe, only replacing one that I had out grown. I looked at many lathes and I can honestly say that the price of the lathe was a secondary consideration for me. What I wanted most was a quality instrument that would last a lifetime. I seriously looked at Oneway as my primary choice and I also considered a Stubby (The importer of Stubby lives here in Nashville). But, I had the good fortune to see a PM3520a side by side with a Oneway 2436. And, what I found was that except for the color of the two units, they were very similar. There were a few things the PM could do that the Oneway couldn't. The headstock on the PM will slide the full length of the bed while the headstock on the Oneway is fixed. The movement of both headstock and tailstock could allow for almost infinite configuration of the lathe to satisfy your turning needs. The new PM3520b has refined some of the features of the "a" model. So, in the long run what would drive my consideration of which lathe to buy?

Well, I was able to get a deal on a PM3520a that provided me a 18" bed extension that allows me 53" between centers, an outboard tool guid stand that weighs about 300 lbs and is the most massive I have ever seen, a collection of tool rests, indexing ring, Oneway Stronghold chuck, and other accessories that I am probably forgetting all for a cost $3K less than the Oneway. Now, as I said, the price of the lathe was clearly secondary for me. But, for the life of me I couldn't find a reason to buy the Oneway over the PM. So, for less than $3K I bought the PM and had plenty of money left in my pocket to buy tools and wood...

But hey, this is just my opinion. I have come to understand that picking out a lathe is a lot like picking a lover, lots of subjectives in the consideration...

[Jim Becker]

The 3520 is a no brainer over the Jet--my opinion.

Of course, they are nearly the same machine other than swing/size in most respects. The Jet 16" was patterned after the PM 3520A, but had the digital readout that the PM didn't. The new PM 3520B adds some goodies. I agree that a PM 3520A is an awesome deal and the extra swing definitely warrents the few dollars more than the Jet. The new PM 3520B may be a stretch for some folks, so for as long as the older version can be had...great deal.


I didn't think that $3200 was all that far off $2800 Jim?

True, but that's before you add the outboard bed to get back to the larger swing. I was only making the point that the OneWay is the next level up...perhaps ineffectively. :o

And yes, OneWay has great resale and the one that many folks use as the benchmark. My previous lathe was a (small) OneWay... ;) I might have bought the larger one when I moved up, but I turned on all the candidates before plunking down the big bucks to be sure I was comfortable with the machine I would ultimately buy to do the work I enjoy doing. I wanted it to be the last lathe I even wanted to buy and it had to be a comfortable fit. All of the machines were incredible, but only one "felt right". A lot of people in my local AAW chapter looked at me like I had two heads for not buying another OneWay, but they were not the ones going to be turning on it! But trust me, if a big ol' OneWay dropped of a truck in front of my house, I'd cheerfully put it in the shop...LOL!

[Earl Eyre]

[quote=Chris Barton]Hi Kent,

But, I had the good fortune to see a PM3520a side by side with a Oneway 2436. And, what I found was that except for the color of the two units, they were very similar. There were a few things the PM could do that the Oneway couldn't. The headstock on the PM will slide the full length of the bed while the headstock on the Oneway is fixed. The movement of both headstock and tailstock could allow for almost infinite configuration of the lathe to satisfy your turning needs. The new PM3520b has refined some of the features of the "a" model. So, in the long run what would drive my consideration of which lathe to buy?

quote]

Most turners will accept comapring a Jet and a PM, maybe even saying the PM is better. But to say the PM is as good as a Oneway...somebody is liable to get you! That's just downright heretical. LOL But, being I own a PM, glad you said it. :-)
Earl

[Chris Barton]

Hi Earl,

I like the Oneways and I do think they look very well built but, for the life of me I can't figure out what makes them so desireable. I have even tried one out. And, the bottom line was that if my eyes were closed I couldn't tell the difference between a Oneway and a PM. I guess it has the "mercedes" status... For some folks the more you pay for something the better you will like it.

[Bob Oswin]

Hi Earl,

I like the Oneways and I do think they look very well built but, for the life of me I can't figure out what makes them so desireable. I have even tried one out. And, the bottom line was that if my eyes were closed I couldn't tell the difference between a Oneway and a PM. I guess it has the "mercedes" status... For some folks the more you pay for something the better you will like it.

Where is the PM made?
Maybe your are unwittingly sending money overseas along with quite a few jobs:eek:

[Chris Barton]

Hey Jim,

I want to get a little more of your opinion here. You said,

"That all said...a serious turner really should consider the additional investment up front for a custom lathe to avoid the most certain "move up" later on!"

So, my response would be, tell me what the Stubby, Oneway, etc... do that makes them different than a good mass produced lathe? I looked for this same guidance back when I was contemplating such a purchase and no one could tell me what this elusive difference was. I have a very good friend that has a Stubby and it is a lovely machine but, even he can't show me what it will do that the PM3520a will not and I can show him quite a few things that the PM will do that the Stubby won't...<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[John Shuk]

I've felt that the PM is a great machine with little compromise especially for the money. My friend has a Poolewood and it a beautiful machine. I think the drive system is awesome but I can't say that I don't think that the castings on the PM are about equally well tended to. It is just a great quality machine.
As far as sending jobs elsewhere, I can only think of the Robust lathe that is made here in the USA. That is a substantial price hike over the PM.
Good luck whatever you choose.

[Andy Hoyt]

When Kent first launched this thread he said that he'd narrowed it down to the Jet and the PM. Having turned on both of those, several Oneways, and various others I chose to encourage him towards the PM (as per my earlier post) and not say anything to further distract him. Besides, he's a big boy and I respect his research and determinations.

But now that this thread has strayed so far afield I thought I'd jump in with these thoughts. If it it helps Kent - or another creeker - fine. If it makes me look stupid - well, I've known that for a long time.

My first lathe was a used Oneway 1018 that I got most reasonably from Wayne Shipman out in California. Took awhile, but I finally outgrew it this past summer. Mind you, my turning skills are less than remarkable; but I devoutly want to get better and want to turn larger stuff. Naturally, I drooled over the OW 2436 but pretty quickly ruled it out cost wise, but that 24" swing was really appealing.

I ended up doing a lot of soul searching about my turning expectations over the next 20 years or so; and solicited a lot of advice from many people including my good friend Dave Lancaster about all this. At the time, I'd never heard of SMC, or you can bet I'd been talking to you folks too.

I truly believe that I did the responsible due dilgence thing and road tested a Jet, a PM, a OW, a Delta, a Vega, and a homemade monster. These machines were all less than a year old. And they were all great - except the Delta, but I believe I was predisposed to not like it.

In the end, I went for the Oneway 1640 with outboard extension. Gave me great spindleturning length at 40", 16" swing inboard, and 24" swing outboard. I really like the outboard end since I can stare straight at a hollow form and not get all contorted.

But why did I go with the Oneway? It's a combination of a lot of things.
I had years of experience with their level of manufacturing quality.
Dave Lancaster is 20 minutes away if something goes horribly wrong with it.
It is built in North America, and the profits from my purchase stayed in North America.
It will force me to become a better turner, because I cannot blame the machine.
I can concentrate on technique, form, size, and style without worrying that I might be pushing the machine's tolerances.
It's a great color.
Its cost will force me to turn more, so I can sell more, so I can turn more...
It will still be in tip top shape long after I'm not.I don't expect that any of you reading this will relate to each and every point I've listed, but I'm sure most of you can do so with (perhaps) half of them. And that's not too bad. It is indeed the uniqueness of each of us, the uniqueness of our turnings; of our machines; of our critiques; and of our circumstances that makes life interesting. It would extremely boring if we all had the same lathe, the same wood, and the same form in our mind's eye.

So, Kent. This is post #23 in this thread and you've been awfully quiet since yesterday. I think all of us would like to know what our comments have done to your decision making process. Not asking you to decide, just asking what effect this has had towards making that decision.

[Jim Becker]

So, my response would be, tell me what the Stubby, Oneway, etc... do that makes them different than a good mass produced lathe?
Let's take a clue from Andy's post that we've moved beyond the intent of this thread. (and I'm a prime offender to a certain point on that) I think that a new thread for this might be a nice way to have an exchange of ideas because there is no one answer...only possiblities.

[Dennis Peacock]

It's quiet simple in my book. I've seen both lathes, I now own a PM 3520A and I wouldn't trade it today for any other lathe out there. Not even a Oneway. Oneway is nice stuff, but shoot, all I'm doing it turning wood and making square and oblong stuff round with it. At 720 pounds of cast iron, the PM is solid and is a great lathe. :D

[John Hart]

.....I really like the outboard end since I can stare straight at a hollow form and not get all contorted.....

I've been following this thread with great enthusiasm since I intend on getting a better machine next year to go with the new house. But reading this response from you Andy....I just couldn't believe how stupid I can be. All this time, I've been bent over trying to peer into a little hole until my back ached. I never thought to swing my hollow forms outboard!!! Sheesh!!! Dang near blew coffee on to my laptop!:eek:

Thanks!:)

[Chris Barton]

Andy,

Thanks for a great reply! You explained why the Oneway was the right choice for you.

Bob,

Sorry, I am not a trade protectionist and have always believed in buying the best tool for my dollar regardless of where it comes from.

Jim,

You'er right and the thread has gone sideways. I suppose my motivation to explore this question is because I think there are lots of folks out there that are considering which machine to buy and they have heard of the "iconic" machines that are held to be the cream of the crop. But, they don't know what makes these machines so special.

Thanks Everyone!

[Matthew Clarke]

Hi Kent,

I own the Poolewood model that you worked on at David Ellsworth's. You can no longer purchase that model (Euro 2000). I love that mathine. However, I also have to agree with most of the other posts. Grab the PM. Turning is all about mass. The extra weight of the PM (not to mention quality) is something that you wil you will ooh and ahh over when you start using it. PM did a great job in putting that machine together for the mass market.

[Jim Ketron]

I love my PM 3520a! It was the best lathe for the money I was willing and able to spend!
As far as lathes go each one will have a certain feature that makes them different than the other. I like the features on the PM 3520 and it suites my turning style. as far as quality I think it is very well made machine, and I have had no problems with it.
as far as dependability in any lathe or any man made equipment as far as that goes, they all will tear up sometime or another, so just get the best you can afford;)
Jim

[Kent Cori]

Wow! I was out of town for a day and did I ever get a surprise when I returned! :eek:

Obviously this thread has taken on a life of its own. Regardless of the fact that it wandered a bit off the original tack I, and I'm sure many others, enjoyed the give and take. Thank you all for your input.

Given my two choices, it is clear that the universal consensus is one of the PM3520's. Now the question is the "A" or the "B"? For those of you with the A, has the lack of a digital RPM readout bothered you? If you had it to do today, would you spend the extra $500 on the "B" for the extra features and goodies? :confused:

[Travis Stinson]

Kent, the lack of the RPM readout on my "A" model has been a non-issue. It took me a little while to get used to the speed control, having moved up from a Jet 1236, and was turning too slow at first. In no time you'll develop a feel for the right setting range to use. From what I've heard of the "B" model, the few additions don't justify the added cost in a side by side comparison. I'd buy the "A" model again.;)

[Jim Ketron]

I agree with Travis! I never use the readout don't see a need to. Every bowl will need to be turned a diff speeds even if its the same size the MC
and other factors come into play, so I don't see the need to be exact on a certain speed. I just turn the speed the bowl likes to be turned at.
The new features are nice but for the type of turning I do they would not be used much. but you might want to compare to see if it fits your style.

[John Miliunas]

Kent, although it's not a PM, my Vega 2400 has a digital readout, as well. It doesn't correlate to RPM's, but it can still be used as a metered readout point. That said, I still don't refer to it! Like Travis and Jim K. said, different pieces will require different speeds anyway. I more often just use the dial position to get me in the ballpark and adjust from there. :) :cool:

[John Nicholas]

How do I get hold of Dennis at Southern Tool? Google didn't get me to any place that had wood working lathes?

:)

[Andy Hoyt]

Kent - Good for you for sticking to your guns.

[Cecil Arnold]

Kent, I agree with the others, you don't really need the readout. At first I considered a mirror so I could see the thing but now I just listen to the work.

John, I was referring to Dennis Peacock who referred me to Southern tool and may have the URL for their web site. they didn't have a scratch and dent 3520a but I got a new one shipped from PM for I think $2229 to the freight warehouse in Houston. That was about 18 months ago.

[Loy Hawes]

How do I get hold of Dennis at Southern Tool? Google didn't get me to any place that had wood working lathes?

:)


http://www.southern-tool.com/store/wood_working_lathes.html

[Earl Eyre]

Re digital readout...there is a chart that converts the numbers on the readout to RPM's. It's true that it is on the back on the A. I have never used the low speed belt change. Never needed it. So I just took the rpm conversion and marked on the lathe around the knob where 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 was. I looked at the marks alot when I started but now I know real close by sound what the speed is. Besides, you really end up turning where the speed is comfortable, not by the numbers.

The only other complaint about the A is that you can't keep the spidle lock engaged. Followed somebodys advice and took out the lower screen on the lock guard. Now I just push the button with one finger and swing the guard over the button with another. All one handed and slick as a whistle.
Earl

[John Shuk]

I think you are going to be a happy man!

[Andy Hoyt]

Don't mean throw water on a fire that's aready out, but I just remembered another reason why the 3520 a or b lost out in my search.

No indexing ring; and for me that was important.

[Steven Wilson]

Kent,

I went with a Oneway 2436 with a multi-extension mounted outboard and dual banjo's. The multi-extension lets me have a short-bed and long-bed lathe without making changes. This basially allows me to rough out a bowl utilizing the tail stock, then transfer the rough bowl outboard on a short bed lathe without having a tailstock get in the way. Tailstocks on big lathes are heavy and I really don't enjoy humping them on and off the lathe. I'm also not a great fan of riding the lathe cowboy style! One other thing I liked about the Oneway was the mobility kit at a fairly low price. Building or purchasing something similar for a Vickmark (my second choice) or Powermatic (3520A) adds quite a bit to the expense and brings down the price difference (you really get into machinery mover parts at the weight level of these machines). Not by much, but some. Anyhow, I really liked the Vickmark and Powermatic lathes and would be satisfied with either. I went with the Oneway because I was able to configure it exactly like I wanted - no compromise, and at a price that wasn't so much higher than the others as to make it unapalitable. Price asside, I really do like the Powermatic 3520A though. It can make for a nice, fairly compact foot print with the sliding headstock. If you can get a 3520A for the low prices mentioned in previous posts then go for it, it's great kit.

[Fred Floyd]

I have the Jet 1642-2hp. It's plenty of lathe for me now and way into the future. In hindsight, the PM 3520 was available for about $2400 at the time compared to $1700 for the Jet. I will always wonder if the PM would be better. I know that when it came to tablesaws, I got the PM66 and have never regretted that decision.

When turning a big bowl that is out of round, weight matters. In either case, weight can be added with a sand box -- or better yet bolt it to the floor.

I haven't built my sand box yet and just put up with the occasional vibration