Trying to decide first "real" workbench: Moravian, folding Underhill, or ???

[Matt Lau]

Hey Creekers,

I'd like to make my first real (non-premade)workbench sometime soon.
My requirements are a bit different from most of you'all:

1. I may be doing some basic jointery, make small boxes and small stuff around the house.
Most of the rough dimensioning would be done offsite.
2. Guitar building. Something solid to clamp work boards to, a heat pipe, gunsmith vise.
3. Would like it to be portable.
4. Relatively small (48" long). I'll be sticking this in my bedroom.

Do you guys have any suggestions? A lot of the luthiers that I know just screw together some 2x4" and slap about 2-3 layers of MDF on top. Most of the thicknessing/dimensioning is done with power tools.

Personally, I'd like to make something a little nicer than that.
The Underhill bench (Closegrain's "apartment workbench"), Moravian bench (canted legs to avoid racking), and knockdown Nicholson (torsion box) are all on my short list.

I'm not sure if there's something else that you can recommend?

-Matt

ps. The portable part is partially because I've had to move so often! If I built a huge Roubo, I wouldn't likely be able to enjoy it.

pps. I forgot to mention that I'm fairly inept...but stubborn.

[Tony Wilkins]

Speaking as someone who is still waiting to move on from his prefab mind you...

are there any feaures of benches youve you’ve seen that really attract you? What type of work holding would you think best fits your style of working? How much would you like to spend on vises and hardware? These answers might nudge you into the right direction.

[ken hatch]

Hey Creekers,

I'd like to make my first real (non-premade)workbench sometime soon.
My requirements are a bit different from most of you'all:

1. I may be doing some basic jointery, make small boxes and small stuff around the house.
Most of the rough dimensioning would be done offsite.
2. Guitar building. Something solid to clamp work boards to, a heat pipe, gunsmith vise.
3. Would like it to be portable.
4. Relatively small (48" long). I'll be sticking this in my bedroom.

Do you guys have any suggestions? A lot of the luthiers that I know just screw together some 2x4" and slap about 2-3 layers of MDF on top. Most of the thicknessing/dimensioning is done with power tools.

Personally, I'd like to make something a little nicer than that.
The Underhill bench (Closegrain's "apartment workbench"), Moravian bench (canted legs to avoid racking), and knockdown Nicholson (torsion box) are all on my short list.

I'm not sure if there's something else that you can recommend?

-Matt

ps. The portable part is partially because I've had to move so often! If I built a huge Roubo, I wouldn't likely be able to enjoy it.

pps. I forgot to mention that I'm fairly inept...but stubborn.

Matt,

A while back I posted on making a portable work bench. I made a Moravian style knock down bench. It had reasonably simple joinery i.e. hand tool friendly and once together very robust. The bench was stable enough it is now serving as my sharpening bench. I'll be making another, starting in a couple of weeks, to use on our Fall trip to the PNW. I'll post as I build.

ken

[David Eisenhauer]

Watching Will Myers put his Moravian bench together on You Tube looks like it is indeed portable and solid, as Ken says, for those with a Gypsy lifestyle. Besides that, it just looks like a woodworking bench as opposed to the more modern sheet good-torsion-modular-jillion holed-adjustable legged contraptions that are probably very good contraptions for the "function over form forever" school of thought. Style points do count.

[Matt Lau]

Thanks for the tips.

A second Moravian workbench!?! It must be pretty great.
For work holding, I'll probably be using Veritas hold downs and surface clamps.
Additionally, I may sometimes attach a gunsmith vise to the top for neck work.

I don't mind spending a solid $200 on a decent vise or two (each) (and I already have a veritas surface clamp).

As vain as it sounds, looks do matter. :p
At least I'd like to graduate from the plywood on some legs phase.

[John C Cox]

While it's not particularly stylish or beautiful - I simply use a 1980's vintage office desk as my workbench/workshop desk.... It's my guitar building desk/bench...

The nice thing about this is that it will do double duty in an appartment. Just clear off the desk and build...

[Matt Evans]

Matt,

A few suggestions:

1: Wood selection. A lot of the lighter benches I see are pine or fir. They will work fine, but I like something a little more stable for benches. Poplar is an excellent choice for a small, portable bench. You can make it a little thicker and larger than a lot of other woods, and maintain a lower weight while gaining more vibration dampening size. Some cherry is also rel;relatively lightweight and good for benches like this as well.

2a: Work holding. The Veritas hold downs are nice, but I never did like using the surface vise. In making smaller carving benches I've drilled more holes than usual to accommodate holdfasts and carvers screws on any size carving or workpeice. since you plan on a vise or two any how, a few holes, some hold-downs, battens and such should get you through a lot of your work.

2b: Gunsmith vise/other vises: I would really recommend two things here. First, add a small wagon or tail vise. for working on gunstocks, table legs, guitar necks, etc, you can't go wrong with a tail vise with square dogs. Make a few dogs extra long and you can clamp items well above the bench surface for access to all sides. The second part of this is that you can mount your gunsmiths vise to a board with a board sticking down, and then simply clamp it in you tail vise. That way you can have full use of the bench surface when needed.

3:Base: Not totally sold on folding benches myself. They complicate things, and just seem to be a bit more frustrating than I like. If you make the benchtop/base to connect via large mortise and tenon joints (like a Roubo) you can leave them loose and pull the top straight up and off to disassemble. Make the base with a double (or centered single) Trestle style stretcher with tusk tenons and you'll have a bench you can knock down very quickly that is rock solid and wont move in use.

4: If you like, using the above suggestion, you can build a secondary top, take the bench top off, and throw the second top on for a desk/table. You can still take the bench top with you and set it on some horses or such outside and leave a nice functional piece of furniture in its place while you do so.

Good luck, and have fun with your build!

[John C Cox]

Since you want to pursue guitar building as a hobby - you really only need a minimal workbench.... Even the kitchen table will do. (Assuming the wife wouldn't murder you on principle for working on the kitchen table....)

One thing that may help though is to look into the Solera workboard system used by the Spanish. It's a very portable deal where you can just pick up your clamped progress and move it out of the way....

A good portable work surface is also super useful. I simply use an outdoor folding table for my outside work.. Lay some plywood on top if needed... Neck carving gets done mostly on the deck.... The deck railings are perfect height and size for going at a neck with my big rasps....

Then you can also move stuff outdoors to the deck for big messy operations like sanding, routing, and neck carving.

[Matt Lau]

While it's not particularly stylish or beautiful - I simply use a 1980's vintage office desk as my workbench/workshop desk.... It's my guitar building desk/bench...

The nice thing about this is that it will do double duty in an appartment. Just clear off the desk and build...


Pictures please!

[Matt Lau]

Matt,

A few suggestions:

1: Wood selection. A lot of the lighter benches I see are pine or fir. They will work fine, but I like something a little more stable for benches. Poplar is an excellent choice for a small, portable bench. You can make it a little thicker and larger than a lot of other woods, and maintain a lower weight while gaining more vibration dampening size. Some cherry is also rel;relatively lightweight and good for benches like this as well.

2a: Work holding. The Veritas hold downs are nice, but I never did like using the surface vise. In making smaller carving benches I've drilled more holes than usual to accommodate holdfasts and carvers screws on any size carving or workpeice. since you plan on a vise or two any how, a few holes, some hold-downs, battens and such should get you through a lot of your work.

2b: Gunsmith vise/other vises: I would really recommend two things here. First, add a small wagon or tail vise. for working on gunstocks, table legs, guitar necks, etc, you can't go wrong with a tail vise with square dogs. Make a few dogs extra long and you can clamp items well above the bench surface for access to all sides. The second part of this is that you can mount your gunsmiths vise to a board with a board sticking down, and then simply clamp it in you tail vise. That way you can have full use of the bench surface when needed.

3:Base: Not totally sold on folding benches myself. They complicate things, and just seem to be a bit more frustrating than I like. If you make the benchtop/base to connect via large mortise and tenon joints (like a Roubo) you can leave them loose and pull the top straight up and off to disassemble. Make the base with a double (or centered single) Trestle style stretcher with tusk tenons and you'll have a bench you can knock down very quickly that is rock solid and wont move in use.

4: If you like, using the above suggestion, you can build a secondary top, take the bench top off, and throw the second top on for a desk/table. You can still take the bench top with you and set it on some horses or such outside and leave a nice functional piece of furniture in its place while you do so.

Good luck, and have fun with your build!



Thanks for the suggestions/input.

1. I may have to go to the lumberyard...but first I'm thinking of hitting up the local reuse store. There's some vintage/salvaged older growth lumber that's a lot nicer than the stuff nowadays (speaking like the old grump I am). At the lumberyard, vertical grain Douglas fir can sometimes cost more than oak...but if it's salvaged, I hope it'll be cheaper.
Real wood...in this world of plastic, mdf, and melamine...it's a luxury to have something authentic. Feels like blade runner sometimes.

2. Any pictures? I'm trying to picture this.
In my experience, most luthiers have either a small front vise for clamping jigs on an bench book, or a series of dedicated workbenches.
Currently, I'm mounting my versa-vise on a board and clamping it down with a holdfast. Maybe I'm doing what you suggest already? Makes sense.
For neck carving, I was going to make a fixture and stick in in the versa vise for ready access to all sides.

3. You're probably right.
Like the silly guy that I am, I may end up building all three!
The Nicholsen should be fairly quick and work well with dimensioned stock. I can probably just screw most of it together (but prefer using it to learn mortise and tenons). It's a capable workbench that will need space.
The Moravian should be very solid and not rack at all. It should be able to do anything I throw at it, including dimensioning stock. Plus, I can get a leg vise and be cool like Stan.
I'm thinking of prototyping a quick fold version of the Moravian + Underhill workbench. Canted legs at 15 degrees that fold into the body. A crossbar can be simply dropped onto the cross rails holding the leg together (or a simple length of paracord). I'm no structural engineer, but I figure an A frame would work pretty well (like on my hideahorses)....it'll beat the dewalt workbench by a mile.
This last one would be fun to toss in the car, carry on a light hike, and build some guitars with my mentor who is very depressed recently. I think that some fresh air would be good for him.

4. Good idea.
Do you think that carpet could work on one surface?

[Matt Lau]

Since you want to pursue guitar building as a hobby - you really only need a minimal workbench.... Even the kitchen table will do. (Assuming the wife wouldn't murder you on principle for working on the kitchen table....)

One thing that may help though is to look into the Solera workboard system used by the Spanish. It's a very portable deal where you can just pick up your clamped progress and move it out of the way....

A good portable work surface is also super useful. I simply use an outdoor folding table for my outside work.. Lay some plywood on top if needed... Neck carving gets done mostly on the deck.... The deck railings are perfect height and size for going at a neck with my big rasps....

Then you can also move stuff outdoors to the deck for big messy operations like sanding, routing, and neck carving.


About that....I actually built guitar #2 on the kitchen table when my parents were on vacation once. They were finally convinced that I should move out and get my own workshop, and I did.

[Matt Evans]

I'll try to come up with some pictures. Not sure I'll be successful though, I lost a backup hard drive a while back that had all my pictures from pre-2015, and the last carvers bench I built was in 2014 (I think)

Where are you located? The salvage idea is a good one, but depending on where you are Poplar, Cherry, Soft Maple and a few other of the softer hardwoods can be had for a very reasonable price. (I'm currently sitting on about 4-6 benches worth of 14/4 Poplar that I got for around $2/bdft. Cherry will run me around $3-4/bd ft in 12/4.)

I'm thinking you probably do need to build all three! Bench building gets addictive though, so fair warning. . .

[Jeff Heath]

If you're going to do hand work, whatever you build, make it heavy and rigid.

Nothing worse than a workbench that wiggles and walks. Hard to do good work, and very frustrating, very quickly.

[Matt Lau]

Hey Matt,

I'm in Alameda. I was thinking of going by the Reuse people to pick up douglas fir.

My goto used to be PALS earthsource, but they closed.
Now it's just McBeath's Hardwood, White Brother's (for trim) and maybe Newton Moore. I bought from Larson Brother's Lumber, but the quality wasn't that great.
Urban Ore is sort of pretentious and not great for construction supply

Originally, I thought that I'd only be able to fit an Underhill Bench, but then I went into my room! There's a lot more space without my junk!

It'll likely be a Nicholsen or Moravian.
I'll need a really stout workbench for my next project-- a coffee table and matching desk!

My mom made the mistake of letting me "take care" of getting a coffee table after the renovation. Surprisingly, her thoughts were "walnut slab coffee table."

If I have time, I'd like to buy some air dried slabs of walnut and make a matching set of coffee table and desk....of course, she'd rather I find a nice wife and make babies instead.

Why not both? :P


Anyways, I'm not sure if you guys would recommend a particular bench for making a large slab coffee table and desk?

It'd be an honor to contribute something lasting and high quality for my parents.

[John C Cox]

Matt,Here's a pic of my multi-purpose work-desk-bench. It's veneered particle board.... About 2" thick.... Weighs something in the vicinity of 300 lbs... It's a heavy beast when moving time comes - but it disassembles fairly easily...


https://s13.postimg.org/njlf96hh3/image.jpg

[Matt Lau]

Thanks for the picture!

How do you dimension your stock? Do you buy your tops/backs/sides prethicknessed?

Personally, I'm thinking of building a Nicholson bench using screws and power tools (yes, I'm a weeny). http://kapeldesigns.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-nicholson-bench-with-holdfast-vice.html

[John C Cox]

For thicknessing...

Mostly anymore - I use my drum sander... It's wonderful...

But when I need to - I use my #5 set up with a toothed iron followed by my #4 smoother. Right there on the big heavy desk...

Backs and sides - I resaw much of what I have used recently. I do buy sets, though.. They are not pre-thicknessed to any specific thickness. The Osage Orange set used in the guitar sitting on the bench was bought as a set. Nearly all the top sets come in rough sawn. I have resawn some spruce and cedar for tops - basically a waste of time for me.... You spend a pile of money on spruce billets only to end up with a pile of A grade tops that would sell for about $10 each..

[Matt Lau]

Osage Orange--so nice! I hope to build with some someday, but it's always sold out as soon as it's there.
I will likely get most of my stuff as Indian rosewood from my mentor. He prefers to exclusively build with Brazilian Rosewood.

For spruce, I can highly recommend Old World Tonewoods.

More and more, I'm trying to pare down on my tooling and woods and just focus on what's important in life...friends, family, and my patients.


In the unlikely possibility that I go pro as a builder, I'd like to use mostly environmentally friendly woods-- port orford cedar or Alaskan yellow cedar; walnut; maple, and maybe macacauba.

[Matt Lau]

I went to the ReUSE people in San Leandro.
The timbers under 4x8" are not worth using there.
However, they have a bunch of glulam and really huge beams in decent condition for cheap.

Sadly, I'm not ready to build a Roubo....and the beams are likely lead contaminated.

[Robert Zschoche]

Hello Matt

Another vote for the Moravian bench here. As soon as I clear out the rest of my remodeling tools the first woodworking project will be the Moravian bench. I bought the dvd that shows Will Myers building a Moravian in Roy's shop in NC (well worth the $35 cost).

I have a pile of douglas fir and some oak for the vise, so all I will need to buy is some hardware.