SawStop contractor saw: Pros and Cons.

[Marshall Harrison]

SWMBO is concerned about my safety. Which I guess is a good thing.

So, I'm looking at the SawStop Contractor saw and I would love have you guy's input. Does anyone have tis saw? What are the pros and cons?

How "important" do you consider the safety vale of the SawStop mechanism?

Your opinion on which would be better; a SawStop contractor saw or a used cabinet saw? Is the safety issue that much of an incentive?

I've been looking at older Unisaws but lots of them don't have a riving knife and they are mostly right tilt.

Is the SawStop just a gimmick? Or is it really a big deal?

I guess my main question is is a contractor saw with the SawStop system better than a cabinet saw?

Thanks for your input. I realize most answers will be subjective opinion.

[Ben Rivel]

Just responding to one point, when I was researching which SawStop to purchase I ended up figuring that once I had the Contractor version spec'd out how I wanted it, it wasnt that much less than their Cabinet version. So I ended up going that route and am glad I did! Just something to think about. Ill let the rest of your questions get answered by the inevitable debate that any SawStop thread brings with it.

[Marshall Harrison]

Just responding to one point, when I was researching which SawStop to purchase I ended up figuring that once I had the Contractor version spec'd out how I wanted it, it wasnt that much less than their Cabinet version. So I ended up going that route and am glad I did! Just something to think about. Ill let the rest of your questions get answered by the inevitable debate that any SawStop thread brings with it.

THnaks Ben,. I had guessed that something like that could happen. But financially, even a few hundred dollars could make the difference in this venture. I would love to have the SawStop cabinet saw but lots of guys make do with a contractor saw. If going with a contractor then I want to go with the best.

Only get one shot at this so I’m spending my time doing my homework. Which means putting my shop on hold for a little while so that I make the right moves. Its a balancing act between, saw value, time and money. Or is that a juggling act?

[Simon MacGowen]

Just responding to one point, when I was researching which SawStop to purchase I ended up figuring that once I had the Contractor version spec'd out how I wanted it, it wasnt that much less than their Cabinet version. So I ended up going that route and am glad I did! Just something to think about. Ill let the rest of your questions get answered by the inevitable debate that any SawStop thread brings with it.

Go with the PCS or ICS (if you expect to do heavy lifting stuff). Skip anything less unless you don't use the tablesaw a lot or good enough results are fine to you.

The expensiver models are better in dust collection, cut quality, mobility, fence, noise, etc. It is a one time deal and you dont need to upgrade from a contractor to a cabinet model.

Get the mobile base and the overarm dust collection and the upgraded fence -- even if you have to sell some blood for them.

I have used every model of SS except the jobsite.

Regarding the safety feature, consider it to be the seat belts, air bags, ABS, etc. for your car. Would you put your loved ones in a moving car without any of those?

Your SWMBO is the hero and love her for that (even if you decide to go for just a contractor saw which I still advise against unless budget is really tight)!

Simon

[Marshall Harrison]

You guys really like spending my money. LOL

Ted, due to past forays into woodworking where poor tools, my amount of available time and other factors have caused me to quit, my wife is cautious about this venture. Buying a saw or other tool then finding out it isn’t the best choice for me and wanting to buy a different one is not ging to fly. That’s what I meant by “one shot”.

I also realize that people got along for years without the safety features and while there were accidents not everyone had them. Though I do have a friend thta lost a thumb to a table saw.

I just want to start woodworking.

[Peter Kelly]

What exactly are planning on building? There's a lot that can be accomplished with other tools / methods over a traditional tablesaw at the center of the shop space.

[Marshall Harrison]

What exactly are planning on building? There's a lot that can be accomplished with other tools / methods over a traditional tablesaw at the center of the shop space.

Stating out with farm style tables. BUt my real ove and interest is in craftsman/mission style furniture. My plan is to build the sjop out as I go along to be a hybrid shop as I would love to incorporate hand tools too.

[Mike Henderson]

How "important" do you consider the safety value of the SawStop mechanism?

Thanks for your input. I realize most answers will be subjective opinion.

It was extremely important to me. I do not want to lose the ability I now have with my hands and fingers. Additionally, I had an accident in the shop before I got my SawStop (really something that just required stitches) and the visit to the ER was about $1,000. I realized that if I had a serious accident on the table saw, the cost would be MUCH greater and I'd likely have permanent restrictions in the use of my hands or fingers.

I view the extra cost of the SawStop as a one time insurance payment. For lifetime protection, I thought it was pretty cheap.

Mike

[Marshall Harrison]

It was extremely important to me. I do not want to lose the ability I now have with my hands and fingers. Additionally, I had an accident in the shop before I got my SawStop (really something that just required stitches) and the visit to the ER was about $1,000. I realized that if I had a serious accident on the table saw, the cost would be MUCH greater and I'd likely have permanent restrictions in the use of my hands or fingers.

I view the extra cost of the SawStop as a one time insurance payment. For lifetime protection, I thought it was pretty cheap.

Mike

Good points Mike. I’m glad that you are okay.

My wife is an Occupational Therapist that has specialized in hand injuries in the past. She has seen what a saw (and countless other things) can do to mangle a hand. She isn’t keen on spending the money as we just have her income now but she knows the horrors of hand injuries so it may be good timing to go with a SawStop.

[marlin adams]

I actually know a fellow that has a sawstop the full size one and he loves it. The power is there and everything but either the jobsite or contactor size or the big tablesaw make sure you get a the dado brake cartridge to to do dados plus get extra brake cartridges both dado and standard for just in case you activate the safety mech. He did and had to order another and was down until he got it.

[Prashun Patel]

Unfortunately, Marshall, you've asked a question with partisan responses around SMC.

This thread, like many Sawstop threads, may get shut down if it gets hot.

For my part, I own a Sawstop PCS. Apart from the mechanism, it is a good, well-made saw that (in my hands) does not skimp on quality - from the fence, to the power, to the riving knife mechanism, to the mobile base, to the manual. All top notch. I prefer a cabinet saw to a contractor saw for dust collection ability.

[Marshall Harrison]

Unfortunately, Marshall, you've asked a question with partisan responses around SMC.

This thread, like many Sawstop threads, may get shut down if it gets hot.

For my part, I own a Sawstop PCS. Apart from the mechanism, it is a good, well-made saw that (in my hands) does not skimp on quality - from the fence, to the power, to the riving knife mechanism, to the mobile base, to the manual. All top notch. I prefer a cabinet saw to a contractor saw for dust collection ability.

I'm still kind of new around here and didn't realize I may be starting fire with this thread. My apologies and hope that it won't get out of hand as my questions are legit. I really want to know how good the contractor saw is. I'm watching reviews on Youtube and reading everything I can find.

They are bigger now but these are the same 10 fingers I was born with and I've grown attached to them I've seen the videos and I think the technology is sound and works as advertised. I would really like to know how good the contractor saw really is.

[Michael Rector]

Take a look at your insurance plan and determine what the co-pay is for an ER visit if you lose a thumb. Add that money to what your budget is for the SS Contractor and poof you're at the PCS! You can even show your wife the math :)

Adding - The dust collection is an important feature as well that isn't often thought of.

In the past year I had over $300k of medical bills (before insurance kicked in) for laryngeal cancer. I don't smoke, I don't drink heavily, I'm in excellent health and all I can think is environmental conditions contributed to this including being nonchalant about dust management and wearing a respirator.

Fast forward a year, I'm cancer free *knock on wood* and my hand power tools have changed to Festool for dust collection and my dust collection for big tools is a lot better.

The PCS has MUCH better dust collection. Just another thought.

[Marshall Harrison]

I went back and read my original post and it wasn't clear.

I'm taking about comparing a SawStop contractor saw to a non SawStop Cabinet saw. In other words how would it compare to a Grizzly or Delta cabinet saw.

[Simon MacGowen]

I went back and read my original post and it wasn't clear.

I'm taking about comparing a SawStop contractor saw to a non SawStop Cabinet saw. In other words how would it compare to a Grizzly or Delta cabinet saw.

I am afraid there is no meaningful comparison between apples and oranges in the scenario you laid out.

Simon

[Marshall Harrison]

I am afraid there is no meaningful comparison between apples and oranges in the scenario you laid out.

Simon

I realize we are comparing apples to oranges.

But I'm still left trying to decide if the SawStop feature makes up for stepping down to a contractor saw.

[richard poitras]

My opinion is go with a cabinet saw, there is a night and day difference between a contractor saw and cabinet saw no matter what brand and if you really look at the foot print (size of room taken up) they are about equal.

[Nick Decker]

You mentioned the lack of a riving knife on a used Unisaw, which, to me, is as much if not more of a safety concern than a safety brake. The riving knife comes into play every time you rip a board.

That said, I'd say no, a SS Contractor is not a better saw than a traditional cabinet saw. It's in a different class. This is a distinction you may having trouble selling to your wife, depending on how well she understands woodworking.

It may be, though, that the SS Contractor would work fine for you. Because of space limitations, I use the SS Jobsite and find it to be an excellent tool, in its class.

[Carroll Courtney]

Yrs ago I purchase a Chevy Luv truck,it was nice and love it for about month.Before I had kids then I went down and purchase a full size truck.Point being as long as there is a step up you will always want it.Contractor saws yrs ago was made for moving to job sites and cabinet saws where made for shops.Check out the weight of each saw,look at the surface per sq in.And is there dust collector built into the saw,as much as those saws cost and if they are any good then should last you a life time.Main thing is get what you want and I bet you will be happy

[Simon MacGowen]

if you really look at the foot print (size of room taken up) they are about equal.

Living proof here: My SS PCS takes up pretty much the same spot as my old contractor saw. Because I have added the mobile base, the mobility of the 400lb+ monster is no more weaker than the previous contractor saw. I can move it out or back into the spot with one hand.

Simon

[David Kumm]

If the question is " will a $1000 used unisaw or PM 66 be a better built saw than a $1600 Sawstop contractor saw " the answer is yes. The Uni or PM 66 may be a slightly heavier build than a PCS and an ICS will be a better build than a Uni. Does that offset the value of the brake cartridge, only you can decide. You don't buy the SS because it is the best built saw for the buck but because of the safety aspect. That also holds true for a million other purchases. If you aren't driving a car with a good crash rating, lots of airbags, and pre crash electronics, it could be argued that you should put the extra money or all the money into that. Whatever choice you make should be based on what you are comfortable with and can afford. The build differences are real but may be irrelevant for your amount of usage. Look at what your needs are and buy what makes you feel secure. Dave

[Roger Marty]

SWMBO is concerned about my safety. Which I guess is a good thing.

So, I'm looking at the SawStop Contractor saw and I would love have you guy's input. Does anyone have tis saw? What are the pros and cons?

How "important" do you consider the safety vale of the SawStop mechanism?

Your opinion on which would be better; a SawStop contractor saw or a used cabinet saw? Is the safety issue that much of an incentive?

I've been looking at older Unisaws but lots of them don't have a riving knife and they are mostly right tilt.

Is the SawStop just a gimmick? Or is it really a big deal?

I guess my main question is is a contractor saw with the SawStop system better than a cabinet saw?

Thanks for your input. I realize most answers will be subjective opinion.

No question for me-- I would buy the SawStop Contractor before a used Unisaw/PM66.

You can upgrade the SS Contractor to cast iron wings. I've read elsewhere that the Contractor performs very well...about as well as the PCS 1.75 (which is what I bought simply because it is actually a bit more compact!)

I love having the 'airbags' there in case I screw up.

[Simon MacGowen]

No question for me-- I would buy the SawStop Contractor before a used Unisaw/PM66.

You can upgrade the SS Contractor to cast iron wings. I've read elsewhere that the Contractor performs very well...about as well as the PCS 1.75 (which is what I bought simply because it is actually a bit more compact!)

I love having the 'airbags' there in case I screw up.

I haven't checked it out but there is a recent thread about Contractor Saw vs Cabinet Saw which you can also check to help you understand the differences between the two types of saws before you decide.

If I were making a decision in your shoes, I would decide first if the SS feature is mandatory before I move to the next step. If it is not, then you can consider apples vs oranges. If it is, your choices would be limited to the different models of SawStop only (new or used). If you are in Canada, you can throw the Bosch Reaxx in the pool as well.

Simon

[David Justice]

I have the SS contractor saw with the cast iron wings and it feels very much like other cabinets saws I have used. It's stout, heavy and does not move at all. I bought it for the same reason, I really wanted a SS for the safety and I knew that it's a great machine. The cabinet saw was only about $700 more, but it was $700 too much. Bottom line is I love the saw, it does everything I need it to do and does it very well.

[Clayton Dool]

Time for my $.02. I too am in market for a SS. Waiting till spring and their promotions.

I have a TS3650. Fantastic shape. Great guard/splitter. It meets my needs fully. So why looking to upgrade? I am very safety conscious. Every time I do something I double check what I am doing. Early on, had few kickbacks, but I learn and those incidents have all but stopped. Yes, still get few boo-boo's, especially using chisels, but overall feel very confident around saw. So why should I buy a new one when current is perfectly fine?

Over a year ago I got a micro jig grrper. Used it to make small rip on board. FIRST time using it. Set it up. Measured everything. Did test run over blade. Rechecked everything. While felt uncomfortable with hand over blade without guard, I know the jig is there to protect me. Ok, here we go...I made my cut. And accident. One thing I didn't consider in all my safety checks was the small cut was just big enough to go between blade and insert (I didn't have zero-clearance installed) and as I applied pressure going over blade, board tilted into that opening. Jig tilted and hit blade and I remember why I had considered SS many times over years. No, hand was safe. But easily could have been different. SS safety is NOT there to replace other safety practices. But it is an extra safety device. I would take a SS, contractor or PCS (my goal) over any other brand simply for this reason. Do I need new TS? No. Do I want to spend the money? No. But knowing a mistake can happen even to the best of us at anytime, I value my hands and safety more.

You never know when an accident will happen. YES, most accidents are user caused. We all learn and minimize that risk, but it only takes one minor overlook of something or distraction or unknown variable to trigger an accident. As Simon said, it is simply insurance like safety devices in a car, but would you prefer to go with a car with sunroof but no seatbelt or airbag vs one that is just as reliable, but with a seatbelt and air bags? If your neighbor were to asked to use your saw for a quick project, what would be your answer?

[Marshall Harrison]

Thanks Roger, Simon and David.

I think the SS feature along with a riving knife are important to me. I think I'll like having the "air bags" available. I'll make a trip to the local Woodcraft store this weekend to check out the SS contractor. I would love to have the cast iron wings but I can always add then sometime later.

Just made a $3200 payment to the IRS today so I'll be waiting some before I can get any table saw.

[Ted Derryberry]

If your neighbor were to asked to use your saw for a quick project, what would be your answer?

That ones easy. "No, I earn a living with my tools. Would you like a quote on something?"

[Simon MacGowen]

Thanks Roger, Simon and David.

I think the SS feature along with a riving knife are important to me. I think I'll like having the "air bags" available. I'll make a trip to the local Woodcraft store this weekend to check out the SS contractor. I would love to have the cast iron wings but I can always add then sometime later.

Just made a $3200 payment to the IRS today so I'll be waiting some before I can get any table saw.

If your schedule permits, try going there at a time when they have a "live" demo on (usually on Saturdays). Not only could you ask questions regarding the different models (pros and cons), you could also get a feel of their actual sizes, mobility, dust collection features, different fences, etc. The standard blade guard and the dust collection blade are different animals and the latter makes a huge difference.

One thing to remember: SS usually comes well within its stated tolerance. If you want to adjust the saw to meet YOUR level of tolerance, it is easier to do the adjustments on a cabinet saw than on a contractor saw since the latter's trunnion is mounted on the table, not on the cabinet. Very few people I know know how to finetune the adjustments on a contractor saw properly, regardless of brand.

SawStop runs a periodic promotion, giving you a free mobile base or a free overarm dust collection. That is a good time to buy a SS saw. as long as you continue to exercise caution and follow all safety procedures, there is no reason to rush into your decision.

Simon

[John Terefenko]

Just remember with a saw stop you have added expense if you do trigger the brake. New blade and new brake. Also it will only work if it is turned on. Doing tables you may work with wood that is wet or has metal in it. Just bringing these points to life with the SawStop saws. I believe careful use of jigs and proper technique will always win out. Your money have at it.

[Simon MacGowen]

Just remember with a saw stop you have added expense if you do trigger the brake. New blade and new brake. Also it will only work if it is turned on. Doing tables you may work with wood that is wet or has metal in it. Just bringing these points to life with the SawStop saws. I believe careful use of jigs and proper technique will always win out. Your money have at it.
Correct.
Follow the instructions laid out in the manual
to check for and prevent any potential misfires.

Since a misfire causes money, it gives me incentives to be careful with my saw regardless of the safety feature.

If you do trigger the ss with your body part, send the saw and cartridge to SS for a free cartridge after they have analyzed and verified your incident.

Simon

[Randy Heinemann]

If the choice is between a Sawstop Contractor Saw and another brand's cabinet saw, I would admit it is a little tempting to choose the other brand's cabinet saw because I'm sure there is some price differential with all the saws on the market these days. When comparing cabinet saws across manufacturers, Sawstop's PCS is a very high quality saw at a comparable price to Powermatic or another high quality brand. There there is the safety issue, on which I have never been able to put a price. If the choice is between two saws and the only difference besides price is the SS safety brake, I think that that is a huge plus for Sawstop. I don't use my table saw all that much these days and opted for the SS Jobsite Saw; not a powerful as their cabinet saws nor probably quite as accurate, but it is what worked in my basement shop. I will never regret the purchase. It's 1.75 HP motor is large enough that I do not encounter any insurmountable ripping problems. Dust collection is good and I'm sure much better on the cabinet saws. Accuracy is way above most saws and, again, much better on the larger saws. Plus, I am now upgrading the miter gauge with an Incra Miter Express and that should bring accuracy to an even higher lever. While I've tripped the brake once due because I ran an aluminum miter fence into the blade without thinking, I did not mind the replacement of the blade and brake cartridge. It was dumb mistake which I doubt I'll now repeat and, it reminded me that fingers can get into the blade with the same speed as the fence did. There was no damage to the fence at all and there would have been little or no damage to my fingers if they had been in the way. To me, that coupled with the fact that Sawstop does make high quality saws, makes it worth the price. I do know someone who had the SS contractor saw and is also satisfied with it. So the model saw you buy is up to you based on your needs, but you don't need the highest power saw on the market unless you are a production guy. Woodworkers who do this as a hobby can easily use a 1.75 HP saw and do whatever they need to do; at least I can even with the Jobsite saw.

[Eric C Stoltzfus]

I have only used two different table saws in my lifetime. The first one was a Jet cabinet saw that belongs to the shed shop where my dad works. The other is my Sawstop contractor saw. My saw stop is way better. Now, the Jet saw is a very old saw that has seen a lot of use(and abuse), but my saw stop is a huge improvement. The safety is great but even without the safety I think it rivals any cabinet saw. The fence is rock solid(I mean, you could just about pick up the whole saw by it's fence) and square to the blade without adjustment. I also like the quick change blade guard and riving knife. The only con with the saw stop is if you set off the brake cartridge, you're out a 100 bucks or more, but what's that to a finger?

[scott spencer]

I don't the Saw Stop is a gimmick at all....it works. However, there is a steep premium to pay for it, and only you can determine if that's a good value to you.

At the price level of the SS contractor saw, it's clearly not the most saw you can get for the money. In its stock configuration it comes with an outboard motor, steel wings, and a fairly modest fence. If you add cast iron wings and the T-Glide fence, you're well into $2k territory. IMHO, the PCS with the T-Glide fence upgrade offers better value....more money for sure, but you get a more substantial saw.

If you want the most saw for the dollar, a good used cabinet saw will be tough to beat. Even a new saw like a Grizzly G1023RL or G0690 offer a more substantial saw for < $2k. That's where you need to decide what the safety feature on the Saw Stop means to you. Do you want the most saw for the money, or do you want the safest saw? I fully understand budget constraints, but I wouldn't want to spend that much on a saw and feel as though I was making do with a saw that was just adequate.

[Marshall Harrison]

Correct.
Follow the instructions laid out in the manual
to check for and prevent any potential misfires.

Since a misfire causes money, it gives me incentives to be careful with my saw regardless of the safety feature.

If you do trigger the ss with your body part, send the saw and cartridge to SS for a free cartridge after they have analyzed and verified your incident.

Simon

That's good to know. It would be a shame to lose a blade but I figure on having extra blades around anyway.

[Marshall Harrison]

I've made my decision to go SawStop but I'll wait for the spring promotions. I'll make the final decision between the contractor and a PCS at that time.

I definitely want the upgraded fence and 36" extension. Would love to have the cast iron but that will be decided on based on the promotions they have going on.

[Frank Pratt]

I had a Jet contractor saw & moved up to a SawStop PCS 3 HP. These are my thoughts. As far as safety goes, the blade brake is great, but it didn't really factor into my decision (but then I've never cut my fingers off). There are those who say you buy a SawStop for that feature, but I disagree. I bought it for the quality of build & the great riving knife & dust collecting guard. The brake is just a bonus.

To me a good riving knife & guard is a more important safety feature than the brake. Go look at the different saws. How easy is it to change out the riving knife & guard. If it isn't super easy & quick, then it might not get used as much as it should. The only times I haven't used either is when using a sled or cutting a dado. To switch between the guard & riving knife literally take just seconds.

Check out the dust collection. It needs to be from below as well as from the top.

For sure, a cabinet saw is nicer, but if budget is super tight the contractor saw will certainly do. I used them for may years & they did what was asked.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Yes, the brake is a big deal, a really big deal.

What is also a big deal? All those other safety features in newer saws, for example, a riven knife.

I owned an older saw. It was nice, but it was old enough that it was missing some of those newer features. Couple that with my own ignorance, and I had a kick-back. Saw-Stop won't save you from that with their brake, but their other safety features, which you will find on any modern saw, will reduce the likelihood. Also, if during that kick-back your hand heads towards the blade, that is where the brake is useful.

I currently own a non-contractor version of the saw stop. If my choices were contractor saw stop or very old iron missing certain safety features, I would go with the contractor saw stop. If I did end up with the "old iron", I would for sure find ways to mitigate, which you can do.

If you have a more modern cabinet saw with things like a riven knife, things are less clear. I am told that a slider has some nice safety features, but I have never used one.

I am risk adverse, and I have seen a couple of people laid up after some part of their hand hit the blade. It is what prompted me to get the Saw Stop.

[Peter Christensen]

Marshal I'm glad you have made the decision to get a SawStop. I didn't say anything before since I don't want to offend anyone and don't want to sound "superior" but the fact that you have to ask makes me feel that a SawStop is a better fit for you now. A good older cabinet saw is a great machine in the hands of someone with experience or under the tutelage of one. A relative newcomer can get into serious trouble with any table saw because they may not understand they are doing something dangerous. The SawStop system will help protect you and you are lucky to have a wife that is encouraging you to get one. Just try to put your keys in the ignition of your car and start it without using your thumb.

[Simon MacGowen]

The SawStop system will help protect you and you are lucky to have a wife that is encouraging you to get one. Just try to put your keys in the ignition of your car and start it without using your thumb.

Anything to do with this?

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/woodworkerrouterprojectsandtechniqueswinter2010-140109160139-phpapp01/95/woodworker-router-projects-and-techniques-7-638.jpg?cb=1389284745

Joking, of course.

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

The only times I haven't used either is when using a sled or cutting a dado. To switch between the guard & riving knife literally take just seconds.


It is not necessary, but out of habit, when using the cross-cut sled, I replace the dust collection blade guard/riving knife with the stand-alone riving knife. Like you, the only time my ss does not have a riving knife in there is when the dado set is there. Of course, I still enjoy the protection of the SS.

Some people have correctly pointed out that when you bypass the SS (for cutting wet wood or wood verified by the sensor test to be "wet"), SS users are exposed to the same degree of injury risk as any other non-SS saws. The key word there is "same", not more, AND the risk exists only when the user makes a conscious decision to turn off the SS feature. To be frank, the few times I had turned on the bypass, I felt pretty nervous and extremely alerted. This kind of alertness is a good thing.

Of course, for those who prefer 100% "coverage," there is an option: use lumber that is not wet (and put the bypass key away, not accessible in your shop).

Simon