Wanted: A good tutorial or technique

[paul handley]

I do signs and low relief and incised carving to enhance the signs. Recently I have found the love of my life: Power Assisted C378180arving! I use that term because typing out " Carving with a reciprocating handpiece on a Flexshaft" is long and boring!
I want to draw patterns for incised carvings of animals, humans and other wildlife. I am attaching a jpg image of a horse that I found on the Internet to show what I'm talking about. This type of pattern drawing lends itself well to incised decorative drawing.

PROBLEM: I'm not very talented when it comes to art! I believe though, that this type of pattern drawing could be learned as a skill but I can't find any tutorials or techniques that I could learn to do this. Can anyone and everyone please comment and help be come up with some resources? I don't want a complete course on drawing that I would have to wade through just to get to the part I want.

Thanks,
Paul

[John K Jordan]

PROBLEM: I'm not very talented when it comes to art! I believe though, that this type of pattern drawing could be learned as a skill but I can't find any tutorials or techniques that I could learn to do this. Can anyone and everyone please comment and help be come up with some resources? I don't want a complete course on drawing that I would have to wade through just to get to the part I want.


Hmm, that's a hard one. If you don't now have drawing skills you'll first have to learn to see and draw what you see. I don't think any of the time invested in any kind of drawing would be wasted in working towards your goal. Rather then think of it as "wading through" something you won't use I'd think of it as building basic and necessary skills. A drawing class? Private instructor? The only way I know to proceed without a teacher is to just start drawing. Draw dozens of the same thing until it looks right. Then make dozens of drawings of dozens of other things. Thinking back of the years of drawing I did I don't know of any substitute for practice, practice, practice. Start carrying a sketch pad and draw everything you see. I hate to sound discouraging but most people I know who are good at drawing and illustrating started when they were kids. This doesn't mean you can't learn it if you are motivated, I just don't know any shortcuts. (Actually there is a shortcut thousands of people use: find a drawing you like and copy it, changing it enough to call it your own. I personally couldn't live like that. I once had someone copy one of my illustrations and publish it with their name on it.)

I think the drawing is actually the easy part, the real expertise for the style you show is in deciding the minimalistic strokes that will greatly simplify the detail but still show the form. If already good at seeing and drawing I'd probably start by looking at everything I could find that was something like what I wanted to learn, internet, clip art, etc. Then copy it (freehand by looking, not tracing), then draw three or four more of the same then add some variation in lines, thickness, curves, expressions. Then get a plastic model of a thing, a face or a horse, for example, and practice drawing the same pose looking at it, first in a similar pose then at different angles.

If I wanted to draw something in the style you showed I would do this: sketch the thing in pencil, outline the basic shape with minimum details (eyes, etc), add lines as needed to "suggest" the form, ink in those lines, then continue to widen and ink in lines (such as on the horse's mane) until it started to "look right".

In wood I sometimes just carve freehand after sketching first in my mind. Maybe start with something easy like letters.
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I've done a lot of carving with a reciprocating carver, rotary carvers, and hand tools, but my favorite is with a chip carving knife as with the letters shown. I find it easier to make flowing curves with this method. The horse illustration you showed would be easy for a chip carver. (Maybe look at some chip carving books?)

BTW, anyone can give an opinion so I should describe my experience and "credentials". I don't consider myself an expert artist but much of my work before I retired involved creating graphics, art, photos and illustration for scientific and technical things. I have been drawing for years though, animals, people, nature, fantasy, patterns, architecture. This is a pencil sketch I did of a friend.
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JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

My experience with carving and marquetry is that if you have artistic talent you'll do a lot better than people like me who have none at all.

Mike

[paul handley]

Thanks John! Your examples look great. I wish I did have talent. Unfortunately all the art talent went to my brother and sister and bypassed me! I transferred the horse pic to poplar and cut it using a v gouge. I was amazed at how easy it was to do the thick and thin portions in one cut, following the curving line as I needed to; plus the poplar cut very smoothly with no fuzzies as with basswood.

Looking on the web, I found some good examples on shutter stock that I can copy. While learning, I don't mind copying others' work but I would never sell it as my own! That is unethical and against the law in some places.

The thing is; as I commented in another forum. If you copy a pattern, say one of Lora Irishs', that she sells; then the carving is a craftwork. If you draw the pattern AND do the carving, it's art.
I'm 75 and have been learning to draw and carve for most of my life. Maybe I'll get there some day!
BTW: what is this style of drawing called? Maybe if I can get a name for it I can find examples and tutorials easier.
Paul

[Mike Henderson]

Try basswood for carving. It's very straight grained and not too hard. The famous carver, Grinling Gibbons, mostly worked in linden which is the English name for basswood.

Mike

[Mel Fulks]

Mikes's work has an unusually nice painterly depth. I think that takes some real talent.

[Mel Fulks]

John, MORE fine work. That hair treatment is super. The "short sheeting" is interesting and artful ....and would never occur to me.

[paul handley]

Thanks Mike but Basswood is expensive as I have to order it or get it from Woodcraft or Rockler, both of which charge too much. Lowes used to sell Aspen, which is almost as good, but apparently they no longer carry it. Basswood is also hard to find in 1 inch boards which is what I use. Carving is a pure hobby for me. I'm not learning the craft in order to sell my work. I worked all my adult life to make money and now that I'm retired, I'm going to enjoy myself! So, If I spend money on equipment and supplies, I'm not going to recoup any of it.

It's another reason I turned to "Power Assisted carving chisels". I can carve hardwood as easily as you carve Basswood. Since it supplies a steady forward thrust, it also reduces accidents caused by slippage. You ought to try it! It's like drawing with a pencil on paper.
Paul

[John K Jordan]

Thanks Mike but Basswood is expensive as I have to order it or get it from Woodcraft or Rockler, both of which charge too much. Lowes used to sell Aspen, which is almost as good, but apparently they no longer carry it. Basswood is also hard to find in 1 inch boards which is what I use. Carving is a pure hobby for me. I'm not learning the craft in order to sell my work. I worked all my adult life to make money and now that I'm retired, I'm going to enjoy myself! So, If I spend money on equipment and supplies, I'm not going to recoup any of it.

It's another reason I turned to "Power Assisted carving chisels". I can carve hardwood as easily as you carve Basswood. Since it supplies a steady forward thrust, it also reduces accidents caused by slippage. You ought to try it! It's like drawing with a pencil on paper.
Paul

Yikes, don't buy basswood from those places unless you have too much extra money to get rid of! When I took up chip carving I ordered Northern basswood from Heinecke in Wisconsin. I bought 2", 3", and 4" thick boards 48" long and 8" to 12" wide. They do sell 4/4 stock but it would be easy to resaw thicker pieces. The stuff is beautiful, clear wood, great color, perfect for carving. I don't remember the cost but I do remember I thought it was reasonable - far, far cheaper that what I bought from some local stores including a well-known carving shop. Shipping was by UPS and was cheaper than I expected. Call them since they have more than they advertise on the web site.

Heinecke Wood Products in Wisconsin http://heineckewood.com/

I agree with what you said about power carving for harder woods - I've carved cocobolo and other exotics, bradford pear, mahogany, and more - I usually finish up with hand tools. BTW, I was informed by chip-carving experts to not use southern basswood for chip carving since it is faster growing and not as fine-grained as the northern stuff. However, since people carve a variety of species I'm not sure the southern basswood would be unusable, even for chip carving. A friend brought me a couple of roughsawn basswood boards that probably came from a southern sawmill - I made some practice boards from one and it worked fine for chip carving. If you live near or happen to drive through this area stop in and visit and I'll share what I have left of the 4/4 basswood boards.

As for chip carving, once I figured out how to sharpen the knives correctly I found the carving itself easy - as usual, the hard part is coming up with a design and laying it out!

In case you are interested, here are some early practice pieces and some actual things (sorry for the duplication, I've posted these here before.) My goal for learning chip carving was to carve on things I make on the lathe.

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I even made the sign for my shop which describes it fairly accurately. :)

Hey, I've been retired for going on 12 years now. My thoughts on recouping any "investment" is the same as yours - I don't even want to think about it! If I tried to it would seem too much like work and I'm having too much fun now.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

John, MORE fine work. That hair treatment is super. The "short sheeting" is interesting and artful ....and would never occur to me.

Thank you Mel for the kind words! I had fun with that drawing and like how it came out - somehow it actually looks like the person. :) (Be assured I'll not post pictures of my sketchbooks full of terrible drawings!)

I like drawing in pencil best - I'm not too good with colors. However, I'm *that* close to buying an airbrush to try a venture into color on woodturnings. Good friend John Lucas inspires me with some of his work. I don't remember if I posted this picture on SMC before but here is an example of his subtle use of color:

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John L. made this hand mirror for me after we watched the solar eclipse last August.

JKJ

[Ted Reischl]

Yup, Heinecke's up in WI is the place to get bass wood. I order from there and the quality is always superb. I bought some WoodCraft stuff years ago. Crazy expensive and it was obvious it had been sitting on the shelf a long time once I started carving it.

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks Mike but Basswood is expensive as I have to order it or get it from Woodcraft or Rockler, both of which charge too much. Lowes used to sell Aspen, which is almost as good, but apparently they no longer carry it. Basswood is also hard to find in 1 inch boards which is what I use. Carving is a pure hobby for me. I'm not learning the craft in order to sell my work. I worked all my adult life to make money and now that I'm retired, I'm going to enjoy myself! So, If I spend money on equipment and supplies, I'm not going to recoup any of it.

It's another reason I turned to "Power Assisted carving chisels". I can carve hardwood as easily as you carve Basswood. Since it supplies a steady forward thrust, it also reduces accidents caused by slippage. You ought to try it! It's like drawing with a pencil on paper.
Paul

That's interesting. Around here, basswood is pretty cheap and it's carried by my local hardwood place (Austin Hardwoods). The commercial people use it for some cabinet work.

It's in S4S 4/4 which is really less than 1".

Mike

[paul handley]

John, your carvings are beautiful! I have done some chip carving, but I will not post the pictures. If you make a small mistake it throws the whole thing off. I like to to cut letters with a chip carving knife though and they're good at cutting the small serifs but that technique can only be used in soft woods. I wish I knew what that thick and thin technique is called though, it would make it easier to find on the web. Does anyone know? I think I could use a felt tip calligraphy pen to achieve thick and thin lines. One other question. Who sells the best, most comfortable chip carving knife?
Paul

[John K Jordan]

Who sells the best, most comfortable chip carving knife?
Paul

I use three knives. (Ha, I say "use" but besides demonstrating and a little teaching I've actually done very little chip carving since my first four months of learning and carving a few years ago - too busy with the farm!) One knife is a Wayne Barton, the modified one from My Chip Carving, and a Hock knife. The Hock came the closest to being usable out of the box. The other two required a great deal of effort to get them ready to use, I think the Barton was the worst.

The problem is the knives need to be quite thin at the cutting edge with a long taper back towards the spine of the blade in order for the knife to glide through the wood. I shaped mine to about 9-12 degrees included angle. (Diagram below.) The actual angle is the age-old tradoff - too small and it's too weak, to large and it doesn't cut well. The knives as purchased have bevel angles WAY too big which make cutting chips way too difficult or even impossible. Learning chip carving as a beginner is hopeless if he don't know the knives have to be reshaped before sharpening. In fact, I bought a Barton knife years ago, tried it, and immediately gave up, then put it away for 10 years. It was only until a couple of years ago I realized the knife was useless until it was reshaped.

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The Barton looks like a copy of the traditional Scandinavian chip carving knife and is perfect for most things. The MCC modified knife is has a sharper point from the side view, allowing it to cut sharper curves better. The Hock is made with a different shape and is somewhere between the other two at the point. However, any of these could be reground for a different point.

BTW, I really like the My Chip Carving sharpening system, four strips of extremely fine abrasive adhesive strips on a flat board, use with water. Then strop with compound on leather glued to a board. The edge is unbelievable - easily the sharpest tool in my shop besides perhaps a single-edged razor blade.

I think the handles are all equally comfortable. I think it is MCC which has a handle kit with a moldable handle you can customize to your grip. This might be especially great for people with hand issues or prone to cramping.

These are the Barton and MCC knives:
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For chip carving inspiration take a look at Bill Johnsons creations: http://www.carolinamountainreefs.com/stylized-aquatic.html
I visited him once a couple of years ago then sent him some wood turnings I made from basswood for him to carve on: some ornaments, a goblet and a small squarish dished platter:
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Bill is a nice guy and he knows his stuff. I would recommend one of his group or private classes for someone getting started or who wanted to advance their skill.

Sorry, I have no idea what the style of drawing is called. I just call it illustration. Maybe stop in at a school and ask an art teacher.

JKJ

[paul handley]

Maybe stop in at a school and ask an art teacher.
Thanks, John. Now that's a good idea! At least one in my town, plus although my sister paints in oils, she might know.
oops thought I'd add this: Registered for a drawing forum called Drawing Now and got a clue as to the technique: You don't use a felt tip calligraphy pen like I thought. It is just a regular drawing pen. you draw the curving line and one parallel to it and then fill in!

Paul

[John K Jordan]

Registered for a drawing forum called Drawing Now and got a clue as to the technique: You don't use a felt tip calligraphy pen like I thought. It is just a regular drawing pen. you draw the curving line and one parallel to it and then fill in!


That's what I was trying to say earlier with this: "...ink in those lines, then continue to widen and ink in lines." However, besides calligraphy there are techniques where a "line" of varying width is made in a single stroke, such as the Japanese styles using a brush or an expert with an air brush, but I think most illustration is done as you mentioned. (Except not many lines outlines are actually parallel!)

Another thing I'd think about carefully when designing an illustration for carving is how the wider "solid" areas will be carved. For chip carving, for example, lines of varying width are carved as a single V with one sloping cut on each side. Wider or "bumpy" strokes in your example (below) and strokes that meet up with others, such as in the horse mane, at the ears, and the front of the nose might look great on paper but might look sloppy if the intersecting cuts are not planned with carving in mind. Of course, very wide areas can be filled in with textures or something.

What ever you do, I'm sure it will be fun! Get a sketch book and carry it everywhere. Sketch in pencil and ink with a felt-tipped black pen. For inspiration a good place to start might be the cartoons in the newspaper or web or books - look at the lapels on Dagwood's jacket today, the animals in Mutts, the faces and clothes in various comics such as Sally Forth, Zits, political cartoons etc, - some of these artists are experts at suggesting a form with just a few strokes.

https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=378180&d=1517699863&thumb=1

[Richard Yates]

Great thread! Paul I dare say everyone has used a pattern or pic at some time in their Carving life. And good on you for wanting to create your own design to carve, that is half the fun! Just get some pencils and a case of erasers and go for it!
Everything I’ve ever drawn has parts of it that I struggle with to make it look right. Then it will seem to fall into place after you’ve explored a lot of different options and worn out countless erasers!

John, Great advice and that is some truly beautiful work you have done. Love the sign “This mess is a place” and with exquisit letter carving to boot! I’m going to copy that sign!......if that’s ok.
Regards Richard

[John K Jordan]

“This mess is a place” and with exquisit letter carving to boot! I’m going to copy that sign!......if that’s ok.

Hey, I think almost every shop needs one! I made my first one 30 years ago in Old English font penned in ink on paper. After practicing chip carving on some flat boards the idea hit to remake the sign in wood. That was my first try at letting something with the chip-carving knife. I made while on vacation at Cape Hatteras, looking out over the ocean and listening to the surf.

I recommend you make two and give one away to spread the fun. Hey, I can see it now - planished script in steel for your metal pounding shop. :) (but I suspect your shops are usually spotless)

JKJ

[paul handley]

I found out what it's called. It's called Minimalist drawing but the image I posted is just one version of it. I still have no idea what drawing with the thick and thin lines is called :confused:

[Warren West]

You'll want to check out this book. It's helped many who can't draw. https://www.amazon.com/Drawing-Right-Side-Brain-Definitive/dp/1585429201 In particular a wood carver that frequents here, Mark Yundt has posted about it previously and how much it helped him draw.

[Chuck Nickerson]

I've worked on this skill in the following manner. Find a subject photo you like, lay tracing paper over the photo, then capture the image's essence by tracing 30 lines. After three or four runs at this, try it again with 25 lines. Rinse and repeat with 20lines ad on down. If you can do this 15 minutes a day for 30+ days, you'll be amazed with your progress.

To me this is now art because you're choosing which lines to draw.

[Mike Null]

I bought that book years ago and found it to be very helpful. I have always liked to draw and paint and acquired some skill--but not to the level of John. But I believe, contrary to some others here, that I would use calligraphy pens to draw this kind of image. Using calligraphy or Speedball pens will speed up the process and provide some instant visual example. If you want to begin with a pencil, get a few carpenter's pencils and sharpen them to the widths you need. While you're doing that pick up some quality erasers at Michael's or Hobby Lobby.

[John K Jordan]

I bought that book years ago and found it to be very helpful. I have always liked to draw and paint and acquired some skill--but not to the level of John. But I believe, contrary to some others here, that I would use calligraphy pens to draw this kind of image. Using calligraphy or Speedball pens will speed up the process and provide some instant visual example. If you want to begin with a pencil, get a few carpenter's pencils and sharpen them to the widths you need. While you're doing that pick up some quality erasers at Michael's or Hobby Lobby.

Warren, thanks for that book recommendation. I just ordered one. My philosophy is you can't have too many books! I have a set of books I use to teach kids how to draw but nothing like that book.

I like the white "Magic Rub" erasers. I also use those very thin steel draftsman erasing shield to control where a fat eraser erases, I have some similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/Alvin-Stainless-Steel-Erasing-Shield/dp/B000HF6VK6

JKJ

[Marvin Hasenak]

I would suggest spending some time on some of the engraver's forums, not the laser type of engraving, the ones the use little metal chisels called gravers. In my opinion engraving is the most extreme form of carving low relief in all kinds of metal. One of the books that one of the engravers recommended was Drawing and Painting Animals by Trudy Friend. I am an artist "Klutz", but with practice I have improved a little. The person that recommended this book also spoke highly of her other instructional books.

[John K Jordan]

Drawing and Painting Animals by Trudy Friend.

Yea, another book recommendation. My library thanks you. My wife may not....

JKJ

[Marvin Hasenak]

While you are it, you should pick up some of her other books on drawing. I got them at a recommendation of a man on the engravers forum. But before I bought them I asked a friend who is an artist, she also said they would help. That woman is 92, and still actively paints, so her approval meant more than the engraver's recommendation. Has it helped? I will say yes, but daily practice is almost a must, she said anyone can learn to draw, but the muscles need training, and being lazy won't help.

[John K Jordan]

...daily practice is almost a must, she said anyone can learn to draw, but the muscles need training, and being lazy won't help.

I very much agree with that, same thing with playing the piano. I think the eyes need training too.

I often make small sketches in odd places, for example in a meeting this afternoon at a point where it only needed 1/2 of my attention. Spending hours in the ER on New Year's eve with a kidney stone I got quite a of sketching done. :) The best thing is do sit down with a sketch book and practice on purpose, a tree, hat, sleeping cat, house, anything. It's harder to focus than it might seem - I tend to revert to doodling and making patterns.

JKJ

[Marvin Hasenak]

If you like to doodle, a good source of paper is used books at the Goodwill store. The writing on the pages, helps like a ruler and/or a graph paper. My wife is the doodler, she can almost go through a book as fast I read it, but when she got me doodling, it wasn't long before I saw an improvement in my drawings.