What makes a saw a "Cabinet Saw"?

[Marshall Harrison]

I'm trying to figure out the definition of "cabinet saw". How does it differ from a hybrid saw. I pretty much understand the "contractor saw" designation.

For example Grizzly G0771Z has a full length cabinet with the trunnion mounted to the cabinet but its considered a hybrid saw. It was my understanding from previous forays into woodworking that a cabinet mounted trunnion was what made a saw a cabinet saw.

Is it the weight? All cast iron top? Motor type and how its mounted?

Can someone explain the differences.

[Grant Wilkinson]

Like you, I thought the difference was where the trunions are mounted. I think that was the big difference when hybrids first came out. Now that line is being blurred. Now, it seems the difference is in the general oomph of the saw - cabinets being more heavy duty than hybrids. Also, true cabinet saws seem to be 3hp and up. Having said that, someone will no doubt point a 2hp saw being billed as a cabinet saw.

[scott spencer]

There's really no agree upon standard that the industry uses to define cabinet saw. The lines are now definitely blurred, and some of the hybrid companies calling their saws "cabinet saw" doesn't help. But the true industrial cabinet saws, typically 3+ hp, are heavier duty in every regard. The hybrids that have cabinet mounted trunnions still tend to have much lighter duty under pinnings, lower weight, smaller motors, etc. The biggest difference will be noticed during use and over the life the saw.

Typical hybrid saws with "cabinet mounted trunnions":
https://i.imgur.com/KD36QHZ.jpg
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f12/25617d1308280529-pcb270ts-dsc00885-medium-.jpg
https://2e9m8b2o9t823fjyw1cs5xt1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/fusion-trunnion-510x460.jpg


.
Typical industrial cabinet saw:
https://i.imgur.com/UnFoRlh.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VGKBT4ZXL.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/412M%2BeM247L.jpg

[Joe Jensen]

I agree with the above and would add that like 20 years ago a Hybrid saw typically had a Universal Motor and the "trunion" was mounted to the saw top. Back then cabinet saws had the trunnion mounted to the cabinet. Further, Cabinet saws always had an Induction motor. Also back then IMHO in the pecking order the bottom of the stack were Hybrid Saws, then Contractor Saws, and lastly Cabinet Saws.

[Wade Lippman]

I think the distinction is that cabinet saws require 240v (have 3hp motors) and hybrids can be run on 120v (2hp max.)
Bigger motors require heavier builds, but that is incidental.

So, a hybrid is built like a cabinet saw (but lighter...), but has the motor of a contractor saw. Hence a hybrid.

I don't think anything but jobsite saws ever had universal motors.

[Marshall Harrison]

I think the distinction is that cabinet saws require 240v (have 3hp motors) and hybrids can be run on 120v (2hp max.)
Bigger motors require heavier builds, but that is incidental.

So, a hybrid is built like a cabinet saw (but lighter...), but has the motor of a contractor saw. Hence a hybrid.

I don't think anything but jobsite saws ever had universal motors.

OK, That distinction makes sense. Can we all agree on that?

And does the smaller motor make the hybrid a bad saw for most hobbyists? Seems like the hybrids would work pretty well for most of us and spend the extra money on more tools or wood.

[Matt Day]

A “hobbiest” is just as hard to define as cabinet saw. Some “hobbyists” here have top of the line commercial gear, some have low end BORG tools.

[Marshall Harrison]

OK, More confusion.

My Grizzly catalog came in the mail today. ON page 18 it lists the G1023RLWX which seems to be the current version of the 1023. However it calls it a table saw and there is no mention in the ad of the words "cabinet" or "hybrid". But it is a 3hp 230v saw.

Congress should investigate this.

[Geoff Crimmins]

I think the distinction is that cabinet saws require 240v (have 3hp motors) and hybrids can be run on 120v (2hp max.)

This doesn't really work either since the Unisaw was sold for many years with a 1hp or 1-1/2hp motor.

[scott spencer]

OK, More confusion.

My Grizzly catalog came in the mail today. ON page 18 it lists the G1023RLWX which seems to be the current version of the 1023. However it calls it a table saw and there is no mention in the ad of the words "cabinet" or "hybrid". But it is a 3hp 230v saw.

Congress should investigate this.

Regardless of how you label it, the G1023RLWX is a much heavier duty saw than the G0771Z. Call it "Fred" and be done with it! ;-)

https://i.imgur.com/MTijTOw.jpg

[Scott Buehler]

I like the distinction of the cabinet saw being heavier with a 3hp+ motor...that being said, a 1 3/4 or 2 hp motor on the hybrid saw, will be plenty for 90% of woodworking projects and tasks.

[Wade Lippman]

This doesn't really work either since the Unisaw was sold for many years with a 1hp or 1-1/2hp motor.

I've never seen one. Were the trunions as heavy as modern cabinet saws, or light like hybrid saws?


But it is really like discussing the difference between a heavy cruiser and a battleship, and pointing out that 120 years ago battleships were no larger than more modern cruisers. True, but irrelevant.

[Matt Day]

Marshall, you need to make a decision and buy a table saw!

[Marshall Harrison]

Marshall, you need to make a decision and buy a table saw!

I agree with that. But I only get one shot at this so I can't afford to make a bad decision.

[Mike Manning]

This doesn't really work either since the Unisaw was sold for many years with a 1hp or 1-1/2hp motor.

I just wanna say that anyone who calls my '47 Unisaw a hybrid saw...well, them's fighting words! :-D

[Ted Derryberry]

This doesn't really work either since the Unisaw was sold for many years with a 1hp or 1-1/2hp motor.

Beat me to it.

I own a Rockwell Uni-saw with it's original 1.5 hp motor. It's definitely a cabinet saw.

[Prashun Patel]

I'll add my 2 cents. Used to be benchtop, contractor (open back) and cabinet saws (enclosed cabinet). Most cabinet saws were higher horsepower and often 220v.

The hybrid market emerged to offer cabinet style enclosures at lower voltage and horsepower. They're largely for folks that don't have 220v.

I suspect that had all 4 classes been invented at the same time, the terms 'hybrid' and 'cabinet' would not be used any more.

[Joe Jensen]

I think the distinction is that cabinet saws require 240v (have 3hp motors) and hybrids can be run on 120v (2hp max.)
Bigger motors require heavier builds, but that is incidental.

So, a hybrid is built like a cabinet saw (but lighter...), but has the motor of a contractor saw. Hence a hybrid.

I don't think anything but jobsite saws ever had universal motors.

I am not sure that is true.

[Martin Wasner]

I was always under the impression that cabinet saws had an enclosed base. Whether that was cheap stamped tin, rolled steel, or cast, didn't matter.

Having the trunnion hanging off the base versus the top could be a likely distinction as well.

Horsepower, voltage, or the number of legs of power has nothing to do with anything.

[Ted Derryberry]

The trunion mounted to the frame vs. the table is the defining feature of a cabinet saw.

[David Kumm]

The Unisaw, PM 66, and General 350 were the real deal in 10" cabinet saws. Look at their build and anything less doesn't meet my definition. Keep in mind that the 12" Delta, PM and General were a large step heavier and any saw lighter than the three listed above were a different animal altogether, regardless of what they are labeled. Dave

[Ken Combs]

I've never seen one. Were the truhnions as heavy as modern cabinet saws, or light like hybrid saws?


But it is really like discussing the difference between a heavy cruiser and a battleship, and pointing out that 120 years ago battleships were no larger than more modern cruisers. True, but irrelevant.

I have an ancient Unisaw with a 1hp 'bullet motor'. Bought it from an estate, swapped the original fence with a Beis and built an outfeed table.

It is identical in every way to it's 1.5, 3 and 3 hp cousins. I also have a 3hp spare bullet motor that I bought because I was sure that the 1hp would be way too small. Well, I've owned the saw for 25 years and have never had the need to install the bigger motor. Sure, the feed rate when cutting 8/4 stuff is slow, but I don't do that often. For 4/4 and sheet goods, no more power is needed. Maybe if I had a power feeder and was impatient, but I don't and am not.

I bought a contractor's saw that was only a year old because I wanted the Beis fence that it had for the Uni(see above). It had been fitted with a 5 HP motor! I put the original Uni fence on it and sold it. Only contractors saw I've seen with a motor that big, but it sure didn't make it a cabinet saw.

[Dick Brown]

I have a Clausing (cabinet) table saw, built by Atlas-Clausing and just sold a Dewalt 140, same saw but badged Dewalt, built late 50's/early 60's and at 500-600 lb , full cabinet, heavy cast iron base, I would have to call them a real cabinet saw. Look them up on OWWM. However, now comes the rub. One runs on 110, other on 220 volts, the Clausing has a 1-1/2 hp motor and the Dewalt a 2 hp. Then to add a bit to the confusion, they have table mounted trunions. Looks like most of the aforementioned criteria all have exceptions! What do I think of the Clausing?? I refurbish old table saws as a hobby. Have had 3 Powermatics, 10 or 12 Unisaws, a General cabinet saw. They are all gone. The Clausing is still here and will be as long as I can still go to the shop! Oh, did I mention my 8"Unisaw Jr. "cabinet" saw with 3/4 hp. motor and top mounted trunions??

Dick

[Martin Wasner]

Is the Clausing a 10"?

[johnny means]

Maybe it's about time to come up with a better description. Maybe some kind of a duty rating?

[Roger Marty]

I think the distinction is that cabinet saws require 240v (have 3hp motors) and hybrids can be run on 120v (2hp max.)
Bigger motors require heavier builds, but that is incidental.

So, a hybrid is built like a cabinet saw (but lighter...), but has the motor of a contractor saw. Hence a hybrid.

I don't think anything but jobsite saws ever had universal motors.

What is my SawStop 1.5hp PCS?

[Dick Brown]

Martin, Yes the Clausing is a ten inch, left tilt with a dial tilt indicator which is very accurate. I did put a Biesemeyer fence on it when Lowes had the $80 closeout on them but the original was an excellent fence also.
Dick

[Andrew Hughes]

I would like to think my tablesaw is a cabinet saw the even if the trunnions hang off the top with the motor. 2hp motor 3/4 arbor and 12 inch or 10 inch blade. I had a few tablesaws and many jobs site saws this one is my favorite for now.:)

[Randy Heinemann]

I think the Sawstop PCS has a 1.75 HP motor. For a hobbyist, this probably will handle most everything that you would need. I think it is labeled as a cabinet saw because it was built to market it in that way; keep the cost down slightly and make a good quality cabinet saw available to those who don't have 220V power in the shop. Since I am a hobbyist, if I were to buy a Sawstop cabinet saw right now in my life, I feel the 1.75 HP motor would serve my needs. However, if you have 220V power, for not that much more money, you can get what I would describe as a true cabinet saw with the Sawstop PCS 3 HP. For me, buying a saw these days is a difficult task as there are many saws which will do the job that either are close to or at the cabinet saw level, whatever they are classified by the manufacturer and retailer. To me, the important things are power, dust collection, safety, and accuracy, not necessarily in that order. Balance your wishes and needs in those areas and try to find the one that meets your needs, whether it's called a cabinet saw, hybrid, or something else. Even some jobsite saws are powerful enough, accurate enough, safe enough, and accurate enough for the hobbyist use. If you don't have the room and want to be able to fold it up and out of the way when not in use, that's even a possibility (although I'm sure others would say that isn't true). It's a hard decision, but matching your needs to the saw is the most useful way to go to get something that will work for you.

[Mike Cutler]

I agree with that. But I only get one shot at this so I can't afford to make a bad decision.

Marshall
I have a General 50-220 Hybrid. It's a Hybrid because that's what General called when it was being sold. At that time the distinction was the mounting of the trunnions. Mounted to cabinet, versus mounted to the table. Mine are mounted to the table.Mine is 2HP and that has been enough for me.

I don't know your budget, but within a 200 mile radius of Jacksonville, there are dozens of "true cabinet saws". Everything from Grizzly's 1023's, to some Powermatic 66's and a 72. Plenty of Delta Unisaws also. There's a nice Delta/Rockwell 14" in Orlando listed. I saw a slider in there too somewhere.
It would be difficult to wrong buying a used Unisaw, as long as it's complete, and running properly.

Don't discount buying used. You can actually end up with a much nicer machine that what is available new.
As for parts, There are plenty of folks on eBay that buy machines, break them down, and sell them for parts. For just about any Delta Unisaw, you can get parts as necessary.

[Marshall Harrison]

Marshall
I have a General 50-220 Hybrid. It's a Hybrid because that's what General called when it was being sold. At that time the distinction was the mounting of the trunnions. Mounted to cabinet, versus mounted to the table. Mine are mounted to the table.Mine is 2HP and that has been enough for me.

I don't know your budget, but within a 200 mile radius of Jacksonville, there are dozens of "true cabinet saws". Everything from Grizzly's 1023's, to some Powermatic 66's and a 72. Plenty of Delta Unisaws also. There's a nice Delta/Rockwell 14" in Orlando listed. I saw a slider in there too somewhere.
It would be difficult to wrong buying a used Unisaw, as long as it's complete, and running properly.

Don't discount buying used. You can actually end up with a much nicer machine that what is available new.
As for parts, There are plenty of folks on eBay that buy machines, break them down, and sell them for parts. For just about any Delta Unisaw, you can get parts as necessary.

Thanks Mike. I've found some saws elsewhere in Florida and South Georgia but I haven't strongly considered them becasue of transport issues. All I have without renting something is my 2007 Xterra and I supposed it could be made to work for a 400+ pound saw.

I guess I'll increase my search area and keep looking. If you searched my area then you should have seen what I was seeing. Lots of junk and very few gems.

Looks like I may owe some taxes this year but with tax season coming up maybe someone will get money back to upgrade their saws and I'll see better offerings on the market.

[Mike Cutler]

Marshall

Just keep looking, and be ready to jump when the opportunity presents itself. Cash is king.
Usually, here in New England, it's a bunch of contractor style saws. In the past few months though I've seen Powermatic 66's and 72's pop up. The 72 was cheaper than anything new. Many Unisaws of various vintages, a few Northfields popped up, a combo unit or two, and so did some sliders. Most cheaper than a new cabinet saw.I seriously thought about that Powermatic 72.
I've picked up a few good deals off Craigslist. I bought a Sub Zero, under counter freezer, for less than a $100.00, and an 40lb commercial washer for $400.00. ( It takes quarters and everything. It's cool.;) We use it to wash horse blankets.)

[Marshall Harrison]

Marshall

Just keep looking, and be ready to jump when the opportunity presents itself. Cash is king.
Usually, here in New England, it's a bunch of contractor style saws. In the past few months though I've seen Powermatic 66's and 72's pop up. The 72 was cheaper than anything new. Many Unisaws of various vintages, a few Northfields popped up, a combo unit or two, and so did some sliders. Most cheaper than a new cabinet saw.I seriously thought about that Powermatic 72.
I've picked up a few good deals off Craigslist. I bought a Sub Zero, under counter freezer, for less than a $100.00, and an 40lb commercial washer for $400.00. ( It takes quarters and everything. It's cool.;) We use it to wash horse blankets.)

Good advice Mike. I'm going to follow that and expand my Craigslist search area. I'm in no big hurry so I have time to look.

And while I have decide that I definitely want to get a cabinet saw, I sure wish we could come to a standard definition for the different saw types.

[Matt Day]

Why does the definition of cabinet saw matter that much to you? You’ve been given lots of good information here to understand the basics of what a cabinet saw its, and also the exceptions to the rules. That’s it, call it a day, go buy that grizzly.

[Randy Heinemann]

A “hobbiest” is just as hard to define as cabinet saw. Some “hobbyists” here have top of the line commercial gear, some have low end BORG tools.

Actually, sorry my real point was that it doesn't matter what kind of saw you have or use. All that matters is it meets your needs for accuracy, safety, dust collection, and power. If it does, than no one needs anymore than that unless, as we all do sometimes, there is some satisfaction from using a top end tool. I know that feeling and have bought tools just for that reason. With my saw, I didn't go that route. Just too expensive and too difficult to get down into my shop. So, I just went with a good saw that could be installed in my shop with adequate dust collection and very good accuracy. Have never been sorry.

[Marshall Harrison]

Why does the definition of cabinet saw matter that much to you? You’ve been given lots of good information here to understand the basics of what a cabinet saw its, and also the exceptions to the rules. That’s it, call it a day, go buy that grizzly.

I have spent 30 years as a software developer before retiring last month. As a developer you deal in absolutes as ambiguity can cause all types of bugs in your software and can mean the difference in hitting your target or missing. Or properly monitoring a hear or not.

I was just trying to nail down the terminology so that I was comparing apples to apples.

I have decided to wait and look for a Unisaw. May have to wait longer but it will be worth it.

[scott spencer]

I have decided to wait and look for a Unisaw. May have to wait longer but it will be worth it.

A Unisaw is a great saw, but isn't a requirement. Even a G1023 is overkill for many hobbyists, though having more saw than you need is a much nicer problem to have than outgrowing one in a year. Holding out for a Unisaw as a starter saw, while admirable, is sort of like waiting for a Mercedes Benz S Class as a first car.

[mark kosse]

This doesn't really work either since the Unisaw was sold for many years with a 1hp or 1-1/2hp motor.
And my '76 powermatic 66 manual states 2hp MAX.

[Ted Derryberry]

A Unisaw is a great saw, but isn't a requirement. Even a G1023 is overkill for many hobbyists, though having more saw than you need is a much nicer problem to have than outgrowing one in a year. Holding out for a Unisaw as a starter saw, while admirable, is sort of like waiting for a Mercedes Benz S Class as a first car.

I've owned three table saws in my life. The first one, which I had for a long time and don't even remember when or where I got it, was a $100 plastic bench top. I think it's a "Skil" and it's out in my storage shed in case I need a portable saw (heaven forbid). I used it up until 10 years ago, but not much as I wasn't doing any woodworking, more construction work. My second one was a late '80s Uni-Saw with a 52" capacity Uni-Fence and a 1.5 HP motor. I used it up until last December. My current one is a Felder KF700SP saw/shaper with a 9' sliding table.

Skil: Yugo
Uni-Saw: Oldsmobile
Felder: Mercedes S Class

Nothing wrong with an Oldsmobile as a first car.

Actually, I also own a Delta Contractor saw that I bought as a back up to the Uni-Saw and to use for dados, etc. so I wouldn't have to change blades in the Uni-Saw. I bought it used and the previous owner had taken it apart for storage. I ran the motor, bought it, and never put it together myself. It's sitting in the corner of the shop. I has a 32" Uni-Fence, which was part of the attraction in buying it as it's a full set of spare parts for the fence.

[Marshall Harrison]

A Unisaw is a great saw, but isn't a requirement. Even a G1023 is overkill for many hobbyists, though having more saw than you need is a much nicer problem to have than outgrowing one in a year. Holding out for a Unisaw as a starter saw, while admirable, is sort of like waiting for a Mercedes Benz S Class as a first car.

Not my first saw. IN the last 30 years I have dipped into woodworking 3 time counting this venture.

Back in the late '90s I had a Jet Contractor saw. I'm not sure of the model but I think it was an Exacta. When we sold the house i got rid of the jet along with the drill press and the Inca Jointer/planer but kept my drills and routers etc.

Around 2008 or 2009 I got back into woodworking with a Craftsman 10" hybrid saw. Several years later I had a buddy who just had to have that saw so I sold it to him. Again I kept the routers, drills and the bandsaw plus the small stuff.

After having some health issues I stayed away until last month when I decided to retire and take up woodworking again. This time I want to get a cabinet saw. I would love to have a SawStop but I don't have that kind of money. In my first two forays the Unisaw was kind of like the dream saw to have so this time I decide to get me one. I can't afford a new one so I'm looking to get a used one from the '80s or '90s. I would like to have a Biesemeyer fence bu a Unifence will do fine. I could always upgrade the fence later.

[Marshall Harrison]

Ted,

I Googled that Felder. Impressive looking saw but I'm not sure I would know how to work one of those. It looks more like a Lamborghini than a Mercedes S.

[David Kumm]

700-900 series are more like an E class, the Format would be S class. Martin makes a saw in the Bentley range. Everything is relative. The internal build of the old cast iron industrial saws was even heavier than the Martin. Dave

[scott spencer]

Not my first saw. IN the last 30 years I have dipped into woodworking 3 time counting this venture.

Back in the late '90s I had a Jet Contractor saw. I'm not sure of the model but I think it was an Exacta. When we sold the house i got rid of the jet along with the drill press and the Inca Jointer/planer but kept my drills and routers etc.

Around 2008 or 2009 I got back into woodworking with a Craftsman 10" hybrid saw. Several years later I had a buddy who just had to have that saw so I sold it to him. Again I kept the routers, drills and the bandsaw plus the small stuff.

After having some health issues I stayed away until last month when I decided to retire and take up woodworking again. This time I want to get a cabinet saw. I would love to have a SawStop but I don't have that kind of money. In my first two forays the Unisaw was kind of like the dream saw to have so this time I decide to get me one. I can't afford a new one so I'm looking to get a used one from the '80s or '90s. I would like to have a Biesemeyer fence bu a Unifence will do fine. I could always upgrade the fence later.

Sorry, I made the wrong assumption. I get the dream saw idea for sure. Best of luck!

[Randy Heinemann]

Not my first saw. IN the last 30 years I have dipped into woodworking 3 time counting this venture.

Back in the late '90s I had a Jet Contractor saw. I'm not sure of the model but I think it was an Exacta. When we sold the house i got rid of the jet along with the drill press and the Inca Jointer/planer but kept my drills and routers etc.

Around 2008 or 2009 I got back into woodworking with a Craftsman 10" hybrid saw. Several years later I had a buddy who just had to have that saw so I sold it to him. Again I kept the routers, drills and the bandsaw plus the small stuff.

After having some health issues I stayed away until last month when I decided to retire and take up woodworking again. This time I want to get a cabinet saw. I would love to have a SawStop but I don't have that kind of money. In my first two forays the Unisaw was kind of like the dream saw to have so this time I decide to get me one. I can't afford a new one so I'm looking to get a used one from the '80s or '90s. I would like to have a Biesemeyer fence bu a Unifence will do fine. I could always upgrade the fence later.

I'm not saying this is the answer for you but it works well for me. I think I said this earlier in this thread. After many years of using an under powered, inaccurate saw, and getting tired of all the adjustments I had to make when making a project (a Ryobi BT3000), I did a search for table saws and felt I had to have the Sawstop PCS (probably 1.75 HP model) mainly because, when comparing prices, it is in line with other cabinet saws, has better dust collection, is a very good and accurate saw, and, of course, has the safety feature. Decided I couldn't make that work because it was just too hard to install in my basement shop. Since then I have gone the route of a Festool MFT/Fence/TS55 Track Saw and a Sawstop Jobsite saw. The Sawstop is mainly used for ripping because it was always cumbersome to rip on the TS55/MFT. Between the 2 I have everything I need: 1) accurate and square crosscutting on the TS55/MFT combo (plus other features), 2) easy, accurate, and safe ripping setup on the Sawstop, 3) easy accurate crosscutting on the Sawstop if that is easier than the MFT at the time, 4) plenty of table saw power on the Sawstop (despite what many say, I have found that the 1.75 HP motor on the Sawstop is plenty for everything I do), and portability of the Sawstop as it can be easily folded up and rolled out of the way if I need more central space. Everyone has different needs, but I found I didn't need a 3HP cabinet saw to do almost anything I want to do. The smaller table on the saw makes it a little difficult when you need more space in front of the blade feeding the wood, but I have ways of getting around that. Just to be clear, I'm not saying this will work for everyone, but it is a great setup for me and I get all the saw power, accuracy, safety, and good dust collection I need from both the Sawstop Jobsite saw and the TS55/MFT together.

[Marshall Harrison]

Sorry, I made the wrong assumption. I get the dream saw idea for sure. Best of luck!

Thanks Scott. I've waited this long to get back in I can wait a little while longer to find what I want.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions.

[Ted Derryberry]

If I were in the market for a Uni-Saw I would take an older one over a new one any day. Delta has gone to crap over the last few years and fell off a cliff a couple of years ago.

[Marshall Harrison]

Randy, glad that you found what works best for you. I would love to have a SawStop for the safety aspects but they are not cheap and I haven't seen any used ones on the market. I'll keep looking and asking questions as they come up.

[Marshall Harrison]

If I were in the market for a Uni-Saw I would take an older one over a new one any day. Delta has gone to crap over the last few years and fell off a cliff a couple of years ago.

So Ive heard. Do you know what year they moved production overseas?

[Randy Heinemann]

Randy, glad that you found what works best for you. I would love to have a SawStop for the safety aspects but they are not cheap and I haven't seen any used ones on the market. I'll keep looking and asking questions as they come up.

I was just suggesting that, after assessing your needs, you might not need a full-blown cabinet saw (whatever that is). The Sawstop Jobsite saw isn't for everyone, but it is less expensive ($1,400), can be easily moved around the shop, still has a 1.75 HP motor, above average dust collection, is a very accurate saw (in my opinion), and it has Sawstop safety. It might serve your needs in combination with a Track Saw (not necessarily Festool) or a bandsaw and jointer. Depends what other stationary tools you own or plan to acquire. I think sometimes power is a main factor in acquiring a saw. I have not yet met up with something the jobsite saw can't handle, including 8/4 maple and oak. Sometimes I need to feed it a little slower, but it has handled everything. There are a lot of borderline cabinet saws with 1.75 HP power that may serve your needs. The Sawstop Jobsite saw definitely isn't a cabinet saw but really functions very well for me.

[Nick Decker]

I'll second Randy's comments on the SS Jobsite saw. It's what I use, and I have no complaints. That said, if I had the room, I'd have gone with a cabinet saw myself.

Randy, I use the Incra Miter Express on mine. Gives you a lot more space in front of the blade for crosscuts. Easily adjustable for square cuts, and it stays that way.

[andy bessette]

OK, That distinction makes sense. Can we all agree on that?...

NO! We cannot.

[Adam Clap]

There's really no agree upon standard that the industry uses to define cabinet saw. The lines are now definitely blurred, and some of the hybrid companies calling their saws "cabinet saw" doesn't help. But the true industrial cabinet saws, typically 3+ hp, are heavier duty in every regard. The hybrids that have cabinet mounted trunnions still tend to have much lighter duty under pinnings, lower weight, smaller motors, etc. The biggest difference will be noticed during use and over the life the saw.

Typical hybrid saws with "cabinet mounted trunnions":
https://i.imgur.com/KD36QHZ.jpg
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attachments/f12/25617d1308280529-pcb270ts-dsc00885-medium-.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bGvzCjR.jpg (https://wisepick.org/best-cabinet-table-saw/)


.
Typical industrial cabinet saw:
https://i.imgur.com/UnFoRlh.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VGKBT4ZXL.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/412M%2BeM247L.jpg

According to dictionalry (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cabinet%20saw), table saw is - a short broad-bladed saw with parallel edges, one sharpened for ripping and the other for crosscutting.

My circa '76 Unisaw has an original 1.5 hp motor in it and it works great, never found a need for more power nor has it bogged down. Make sure you use the right blades for the job. I have a nice Dimar coated 24 tooth rip blade that cuts through thick oak and maple no problem. Don't feel the need to get caught up in the hp race as some who say you must have 3 hp just say it because they see other people mention it.

[Marshall Harrison]

I see my old thread is back again. :D

I'm very happy with my my decision to go with the Laguna F2. Its working well for me. It has cabinet mounted trunions and 1 -3/4hp. I don't know if its a hybrid or a cabinet saw as those terms are still as ambiguous as they were a year ago. I just know that it works fine and I'm happy. And in the end that is all that counts.

Question: can anyone name a tool that we haven't or won't debate?

[Martin Wasner]

Question: can anyone name a tool that we haven't or won't debate?

Water.

Extra characters

[Frank Pratt]

Water.

Extra characters

Well, ya know, there's water & then there's water...

[Dan Jansen]

From what I’ve read, cabinet, hybrid, portable, etc are all marketing terms and not particularly useful. Ive seen an old ad featuring a table saw weighing several hundred pounds with an equally heavy hit & miss engine attached that is advertised as a portable saw.

I do think cabinet typically denotes better, more commercial grade.

I’ll submit the following definition for debate:

If it was originally purchased in a borg, mall or department store catalog, it’s not a cabinet saw.

[Phillip Gregory]

How various table saws are defined has changed over time.

The first table saws were simply a blade mounted on an arbor with pillow blocks, mounted to the bottom of a wooden table. The blade and table did not move in relation to each other and one could not cut bevels with such a saw unless they used a sled set at an angle to the blade holding the workpiece. These were typically pre-1900s saws driven by lineshafts.

The next invention was to move the arbor's pillow block mountings to the base of the saw so one could tilt the saw table to perform bevel cuts as the saw blade stayed in place but the table tilted. The Delta 1100 series tiltys are good, small examples of this class.

The third invention was to put the arbor pillow blocks on a trunnion so the saw arbor could be tilted in relation to the table, rather than the table be tilted in relation to the arbor. The Delta Unisaw from the late 1930s was one of the first saws to do this and Delta mounted the trunnions to the base as one would with a tilt-table saw. Unlike most previous saws, the Unisaw had an enclosed sheet steel cabinet unlike most of the previous open-based saws, so the term cabinet saw was born to describe a table saw with trunnions mounted to an enclosed metal cabinet. Unisaws were made with anything from 1 hp 120 volt single-phase motors on up to 5 hp 3 phase motors.

Contractor saws moved the trunnion attachment to the underside of the table rather than the saw cabinet, as the contractor saw base is far less substantial than a Unisaw's cabinet. This allowed for a cheaper, lighter weight saw. Nearly all of these could be run on a typical 120 volt residential branch circuit.

Benchtop or portable saws came along later and unlike essentially all of the previous table saws, were little more than a circular saw mounted upside down underneath a thin sheet steel or aluminum table. They are notably lighter than a contractor saw and much, much lighter than a cabinet saw. These are the only table saws to use a universal motor, all others use an induction motor or for very old units, a lineshaft.

Sliding table saws have a left table that slides in relationship to the blade and this table is used to feed stock through the blade.

Today, the term "cabinet saw" is a term used to describe a saw with an enclosed sheet steel base, trunnions that mount to the cabinet rather than the table, and has a table/cabinet/trunnions similar in size of the original Delta Unisaw. Currently-produced cabinet saws are all 3+ hp saws running on a minimum of 208 volts. A "hybrid saw" is a saw with an enclosed sheet steel cabinet and cabinet-mounted trunnions but is smaller and lighter than a Unisaw and typically can be run on 120 volts.

[Martin Wasner]

Today, the term "cabinet saw" is a term used to describe a saw with an enclosed sheet steel base.

What if the base is cast iron or rolled steel?

[David Kumm]

What if the base is cast iron or rolled steel?


What the old machines had were heavy bases for the trunions to rest on. Dave

[Zach Dorsch]

Unisaw parts were made overseas, but the saws were assembled in the US—although I couldn’t tell you when. I’ve also read disparaging remarks about saws made at the Tupelo plant during the late 70’s.

[Rick Potter]

Add me to the list of 1 1/2 HP Unisaws. I bought one new in the mid 80's for $1200 or so. Jet lock fence, which I liked, no extra's.

Kept it about 12 years and sold it for $1000 around 1993, when I got a special deal at the Fair on a 3HP Uni with 50" Unifence, folding outfeed table, mobile base, and a nice blade for $17-1800, new and delivered.

That 1 1/2 HP motor was huge, compared to the 2 HP motor on my dad's Craftsman saw.

Oldsmobile?? My college grad grand daughter never heard of them.

[Jim Andrew]

My first tablesaw was an old Craftsman I bought used about 45 years ago. Had that saw for about 30 years, until I could no longer load it in the back of my truck. The old motor was huge, but was only 1 hp. After while, I had to turn it to get it to start, so probably the starting capacitor was shot. Used it that way for years. My son used to help me rip boards, and one time I was adjusting the fence with my tape against the blade, and the kid runs out of the house, yells "I'll help you Dad", and flipped the switch on. Cut the end off my tape.

[Phillip Gregory]

What if the base is cast iron or rolled steel?

The saws with cast iron bases such as a Whitney, Tannewitz, Oliver, etc. were simply called table saws. They did not have an enclosed cabinet and thus are not cabinet saws. An early Delta Unisaw with the four footed cast iron plinth still had a sheet steel cabinet above it, so it would be a cabinet saw.

Sheet steel is rolled steel, so yes, such a saw would be a cabinet saw.

[David Kumm]

I'm not sure what the distinction is other than a label attached to separate the steel base from cast iron base saws. My Rockwell 12 has no floor, only an access door. My Whitney has a cast iron sloped floor bolted to the base. My Robinson and Wadkin encase the blade but have no floor. There are cosmetic differences but in each case the guts are bolted to the base. The build of the internals and the strength of the base are the real differences.

I will agree that " Cabinet Saw " is a label attached to the heaviest of the light or medium duty machines. Kind of a blend of more industrial like components attached to a light duty base. Dave