one premium plane

[Brandon Speaks]

So this is mostly hypothetical.

If you were to have a plane collection build on decent user vintage planes but could buy one premium LN or LV what would it be?

A no 4 because of the advantages of perfectly tuned smoother plane?
A specialty like a shooting plane and tracks for a shooting board?
A low angle jack?

Which one new premium plane would you get to supplement rust hunting?

[Kim Gibbens]

I just added a LV low angle jack a couple of months ago.

[Don Dorn]

For me, the hardest plane to refurbish would be a Jointer. Therefore, I'd probably again buy a LV BU Jointer or LN #7. A Jack to me is a rough plane and I've fettled a good Stanley #4. Oddly enough though, I use specialty planes (Record 44, 50,788 and LN 48&49) almost as much as bench planes.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

For me, the hardest plane to refurbish would be a Jointer. Therefore, I'd probably again buy a LV BU Jointer or LN #7. A Jack to me is a rough plane and I've fettled a good Stanley #4. Oddly enough though, I use specialty planes (Record 44, 50,788 and LN 48&49) almost as much as bench planes.

Good points. I would, however, go with the No. 4 bronze, because you can't get that in rust hunting.

[Patrick Chase]

So this is mostly hypothetical.

If you were to have a plane collection build on decent user vintage planes but could buy one premium LN or LV what would it be?

I have mostly premium planes, but if my cost constraints were such that I could only afford one then I'd focus on cases where collectors have driven up the prices on the classic tools to the point where they cost as much as or more than a new plane. Some obvious examples include the 1, 2/602, 10-1/4, 51, 62, and 164. Note however that all of these are arguably non-essential planes, so which to get would depend on which you need. Probably the most commonly chosen among those are the 62, 164, and 51 (or it's low angle LV counterpart) in roughly that order. People who do small work (or who have small workers in their family) might put one or both of the small smoothers in that list.


A no 4 because of the advantages of perfectly tuned smoother plane?

Maybe, but only if you think you're at a point where you can get practical advantage from it. It's hard to beat a design that benefitted from over a half-century of refinement before it started going downhill, and the Stanley 4 is remarkably easy to tune to perfection. The only thing that some of my premium smoothers can do that a Stanley can't is adjust the frog angle. I have a 4-1/2 set up with a 40 deg frog, that leaves surface sheen to die for (IMO) and that would be high on my list if starting over, but even so it's a fairly marginal improvement.


A specialty like a shooting plane and tracks for a shooting board?

This is an obvious choice, but if your budget is tight enough that you need to limit yourself to one expensive plane then you have to ask if a dedicated shooter is worth it at all.


A low angle jack?

A few years ago I would have answered this with an unqualified "yes", but if I had it to do over I'd have bought a BD jack with a low-angle frog instead. Of course there are only two such options that I know of (a 5 and a 5-1/2) and those are also premium planes.

[William Fretwell]

A bevel down jointer as the vintage ones fetch good money, so the price difference for new is not so bad. I would like to think the new ones would be flatter but that proved wrong with one brand then right with another. Vintage jointer planes seem harder to find.
Tried BU in two sizes but have now gone back to BD.
Newer planes have thicker blades than vintage, so take a bit longer to sharpen. As the jointer is the least used you won't mind sharpening it! If your most used plane is very time consuming to sharpen you will get much less work done.

[ken hatch]

So this is mostly hypothetical.

If you were to have a plane collection build on decent user vintage planes but could buy one premium LN or LV what would it be?

A no 4 because of the advantages of perfectly tuned smoother plane?
A specialty like a shooting plane and tracks for a shooting board?
A low angle jack?

Which one new premium plane would you get to supplement rust hunting?

Brandon,

If you have a working collection of Stanleys why would you need to buy a LN or LV plane? The LN are heavy, with thick A2 cutters that require, most likely, a complete change of your sharpening system. I have most of the LN's they sit in the till and most of the time I use the Stanleys only pulling out the LN when I'm trying to decide if I'm going to sell them. The LV's are nice planes with a O1 iron available but I've never felt any love for Norris adjusters so they sit on the shelf most of the time as well. The one exception is the shooting plane from either LN or LV and that is because when you find a good Stanley #51 it costs as much or more than a new LN.

Of course as always YMMV.

ken

[lowell holmes]

I have 604, 605, and a 607 Bedrock planes. They have Veritas Irons and Breakers. I consider them to be top of the line planes.

[Patrick Chase]

I have 604, 605, and a 607 Bedrock planes. They have Veritas Irons and Breakers. I consider them to be top of the line planes.

IMO they're already extremely good planes without the aftermarket irons. For that matter so are the Bailey-pattern 4, 5, and 7.

As has been noted many times the Stanley cap iron is actually better configured for tearout control "out of the box" than any of the current aftermarket options, and IMO iron thickness is highly overrated. If it were truly beneficial they would have done it back in the day. I have a LOT of LV irons and like them quite a lot, but the Stanley irons on my classic planes are also very good and don't need replacement.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Brandon,

I would get the Premium Low Angle Jack. The vintage Stanley is pricey enough that it would be expensive to buy the vintage plane, so I would get one of the good new planes.

It would primarily be for end grain, and primarily a shooting plane.

I currently don't have one, but will have some kind of premium low angle jack some day, Lord willing.

A good Bailey, or even a bedrock in some cases, Smoother, jack/fore, or jointer plane, can be had for less than a vintage Stanley LA Jack, all things being the same.

For that reason, a LA jack would fit the bill, and fill in a gap in my planes. My planes are all users, no collectors. I have restored some of them to very nice condition, but they are users, not collectors.

Stew

[Patrick Chase]

If you have a working collection of Stanleys why would you need to buy a LN or LV plane? The LN are heavy, with thick A2 cutters that require, most likely, a complete change of your sharpening system.

He'd only looking at complete change if he's using natural stones. If he's already on Al-Oxide or harder and has a motorized grinder for coarse work then he'll be OK with thick A2 irons.

With that said I prefer Stanley HCS or PM-V11 to A2 because they're easier to bring to a very fine edge. I dislike the fact that I have to resort to diamond films/compounds to get the very best possible edge out of my LN irons, and as you say that's a disincentive to use them. One of these days I'll get around to replacing the iron in my LN #3.

[Jim Koepke]

So this is mostly hypothetical.

If you were to have a plane collection build on decent user vintage planes but could buy one premium LN or LV what would it be?

A no 4 because of the advantages of perfectly tuned smoother plane?
A specialty like a shooting plane and tracks for a shooting board?
A low angle jack?

Which one new premium plane would you get to supplement rust hunting?

My approach was to only buy premium planes when the cost of an original item was too high or it was difficult to find a good user. My desire to have one of each bench plane is why my LN #1 was purchased. If a decent user Stanley #1 came my way the LN would likely be put up for sale. My need to lessen the effort used for shooting end grain was my reason to purchase a low angle jack plane, LN #62. My LN #60 was bought because getting a decent used low angle block plane can be difficult. Especially if one is picky like me. It is a nice plane but a bit heavy for my liking. My other low angle block planes are used just as much.

So to answer your question about which premium plane to buy. Buy the one you can't find on the vintage market or do not want to have to restore from the vintage market.

That could depend on what you do. Do you need a shooting plane? A plow plane? A good rabbet plane?

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

So this is mostly hypothetical.

You should know that these discussions require bullet proof underwear! :rolleyes:

One premium plane? What should it be - a smoother or jointer, or a joinery plane.

The three planes that top my list are, not in any order, the Veritas Custom #4, Custom #7 and Large Router Plane.

Why these? Well, we all like a sportscar, and the #4 is a Porsche 911. Mine has a 42 degree frog for improved smoothness, PM-V11 blade for improved edge-holding, and an easy-to-set chipbreaker to control tearout in the gnarliest of woods. The #7 is a four-wheel drive: take it anywhere. Mine has a 40 degree frog and is at home planing edges with interlocked grain, or shooting end grain on a shooting board. In the past I preferred the BU Jointer, which is a great plane, but the Custom #7 does much more. The Large Router Plane is simply the best router plane ever manufactured. The times when you use it will be appreciated. Unlike the #4 or #7, there is little competition (the LN is a very good router plane, but not quite up there with the Veritas).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Todd Stock]

The LN low angle adjustable mounts block (or LV equivalent), and some of the small specialty blocks. Had all the Stanley and Record blocks courtesy of inheritance or tag sales and they work OK, but the LN's feel a little more solid in hand and shrug off a dive from the second floor of a timber frame to concrete. The other speciality blocks, such as the smaller so-called apron planes and model makers planes are likewise improvements over what appear to have been seen more as toys by some toolmakers. That said, an hour with a couple files can make even a Kunz usable.

Agree on the plane weight issue - if female and not built like Ronda Rousey, or male and on the frail side, those extra ounces of metal can make a difference in how quickly those arm and shoulder muscles grow. ;-)

[Frederick Skelly]

Some of this depends on the work you do, doesn't it? If you don't dimension your own lumber then a long premium plane could end up sitting on the shelf. Same thing for specialty planes. So I like the argument above about buying the thing you really could use that is expensive on the used market.

On the other hand, sometimes it's nice to just have a really nice version of the tool you use the most. Time and again I've considered an LN #4 to retire my MF#9. But the #9 is a family "heirloom" that I've tuned into a really nice smoother. Or a set of LV/LN/Isles chisels to replace my Marples Blue Chips - but geez, the Marples work just fine for me.

Great hypothetical question! It was fun to think about.

Fred

[Rob Luter]

I have a nice set of Sweetheart era users that I refurbished, a #3, #4, #5, #6, and #7. I added two "premium planes" that would serve roles the others were not ideal for, and to serve as "reference standards" that set the bar high. The first was a LV Low Angle Jack with the full complement of blades. The second was a LN #4 1/2 smoother. They work so nice I have half a mind to sell off my antiques and pick up a LN#3 and #4 in bronze.

[Darrell LaRue]

If I was going to buy a 'premium' plane it wouldn't be LV or LN, I would buy a Sauer & Steiner panel plane.
Them's my two cents worth.
Darrell

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

My first one was Veritas Low Angle Jack. But thinking about it now I would absolutely 100% positively go for a #7, regular one (bevel down). After that, LN Rabbet Block Plane is a nice little plane that is used everywhere. And hypothetically, I would think about a dozen more hand planes as a long term plan, so that my first one is still needed and becomes a part of that bigger future collection.

[Derek Cohen]

Darrell, I agree that S&S are the best lookers of all. For performance, I doubt that a single iron plane can better a double iron plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[bridger berdel]

my bench planes are almost all bailey type 11 or earlier. My only L.V. plane is the medium shoulder plane. FWIW.

[Prashun Patel]

All three of your choices are good ones in my experience.

If I had to pick one, it would be, hands down, the LN#4.

Until you get really proficient with planes (I'll tell you when I'm there in 10 years ;) ) you may find like me, that when you pick up a plane, you get a tiny pit in your stomach, hopefully nervous about what your results will be. The LN#4 is the exception in my arsenal. It is the only plane for me that performs consistently and reliably on anything I use it on, regardless of your level of proficiency.

It is capable of handling pretty much any domestic hardwood with a single bevel, single frog, single set up.

[Robert Engel]

LN 4 1/2 with extra high angle frog.

[Stanley Covington]

So this is mostly hypothetical.

If you were to have a plane collection build on decent user vintage planes but could buy one premium LN or LV what would it be?

A no 4 because of the advantages of perfectly tuned smoother plane?
A specialty like a shooting plane and tracks for a shooting board?
A low angle jack?

Which one new premium plane would you get to supplement rust hunting?

I own a lot of LN products, and some old planes, but I do most of my planing with wooden-bodied planes, because the blades are simply far superior to Western planes. But wooden planes have their limitations: (i) The longer the body, the easier they get out of adjustment with humidity swings; and (ii) in the case of smaller planes used hard on narrow surfaces, like block planes, the sole directly in front of the mouth (a very important area) tends to wear and become damaged quickly.

If I had one LN plane it would be a No.7 or No.8 Jointer. This is one plane that is hard to do without if you regularly true large/long surfaces by hand. Granted, they are heavy and tiring to use all day, but they don't warp, and they quickly and reliably create flat surfaces and straight edges without fuss or induced brain damage. Blade quality is not critically important for jointer planes. Decent jointer planes are hard to find used, IME, and when you can find them, they are overpriced. Perhaps you have better sources.

If truing long surfaces is not an issue, then a LN block plane would be my choice. In fact, the LN Rabbet Block Plane w/nicker would be my choice because it is more versatile than a standard block plane. Rabbet block planes are also difficult to find used. Darned collectors have jacked prices up too high. Blade quality is not as important for block planes.

Two cents (don't ask for your money back)

[John Gornall]

Have some LV and LN but the planes on my bench every day are Clifton 3, 5, and 7 with their forged high carbon blades. Not the current versions but real Cliftons from about 15 years ago.

[Brandon Speaks]

Brandon,

If you have a working collection of Stanleys why would you need to buy a LN or LV plane? The LN are heavy, with thick A2 cutters that require, most likely, a complete change of your sharpening system. I have most of the LN's they sit in the till and most of the time I use the Stanleys only pulling out the LN when I'm trying to decide if I'm going to sell them. The LV's are nice planes with a O1 iron available but I've never felt any love for Norris adjusters so they sit on the shelf most of the time as well. The one exception is the shooting plane from either LN or LV and that is because when you find a good Stanley #51 it costs as much or more than a new LN.

Of course as always YMMV.

ken

In this case it really is a hypothetical question. I neither have a large set of vintage planes or am really in the market for a premium new plane today.

I did think it would be an interesting discussion though and also help me think about strategy as a slowly build my tool kit. Knowing how people decide on vintage vs new will help make similar decisions as needs arise.

[Hasin Haroon]

Brandon, my response will be a little unusual, but I'd get the Veritas DX60 block plane. I have a very good working set of vintage planes and a pretty complete set of premium planes from Veritas and Lie Nielsen, but I've been able to tune up any old plane to be very close to their performance. I have a number of good old block planes, and a couple veritas low angle block planes, but none come anywhere close to the feel of using the DX60. It's just a great plane.

Second on my list would probably be the Lie Nielsen 62. I have the Veritas LA Jack as well (don't ask why I have both), which is arguably the better thought out plane and equally well made, but the 62 is so light that it's the one I reach for most often. Why not a BD plane? Because the vintage BD planes can be as good as new ones with enough work, but the same cannot be said for vintage BU planes.

One more thing - I have a stanley 5.5 post WW2, made in england with heavy castings that performs every bit as well as a premium plane. I mean I've rehabbed close to 100 old planes but this thing is just the pinnacle of how good a plane can be. I usually flatten plane soles so the key parts are flat, but with this I went all the way, every bit of the sole was lapped dead flat, the corners were broken in a bit too. It performs amazingly - look for one of these heavy castings, and put in the hours if you can.

[Shawn Pixley]

LN #7 jointer or LV shooting board plane. Used planes are uncommon here. The LN Jointer gets a workout in my shop and it is often my favorite to use. I don’t have a dedicated shooter but it would be a nice luxery.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I would not overlook the wooden planes if I were thinking about spending that kind of money on a plane. I have an antique jack plane that was somehow basically brand new when I bought it. The thing is just awesome. I can’t think of the last time I picked up my metal jack plane. Steve Voight is making very good wooden planes from what I hear (I have not used one of his, although some members here have I believe).

Stan is correct that they are not as stable as metal planes, but if your shop is conditioned, that is not so much of a problem. They will wear, but I doubt you will wear one out in your lifetime. I have a wooden try that has three names (three generations?) stamped on it. It is still going strong.

[Patrick Chase]

If I was going to buy a 'premium' plane it wouldn't be LV or LN, I would buy a Sauer & Steiner panel plane.
Them's my two cents worth.
Darrell

Beautifully built planes, it's a real pity about the missing cap irons.

Seriously, tight mouths high angles, and thin shavings are a painfully slow way to work with a panel plane.

[Prashun Patel]

I think while the OP used the word "premium" he was clear about the level he was considering. I wasn't hung up on the word "premium".

[andy bessette]

The shooting plane. Just about everything else can be found more or less cheaply.

[ken hatch]

In this case it really is a hypothetical question. I neither have a large set of vintage planes or am really in the market for a premium new plane today.

I did think it would be an interesting discussion though and also help me think about strategy as a slowly build my tool kit. Knowing how people decide on vintage vs new will help make similar decisions as needs arise.

Brandon,

Vintage planes work better for me, it's not a cost thing nor nostalgia, the supposed connection to past workers and all that rot. Of course everyone works differently and has different needs but as mentioned in an earlier post, Bailey pattern chip breakers work better to control tear out, the planes are lighter, the irons are easier to sharpen and keep sharp. Once the frog is set there is no need to change it and if you do want to, a correctly tensioned post type 9 Bailey frog can be adjusted easier than a Bedrock pattern frog. Bottom line while LN and LV planes are beautiful and very well made for my use they offer no advantage except in cases where collectors have driven the price higher than a new LN or LV because with used planes there is usually a burn rate, with new one from LN or LV there isn't.

I hope that helps,

ken

[ken hatch]

I would not overlook the wooden planes if I were thinking about spending that kind of money on a plane. I have an antique jack plane that was somehow basically brand new when I bought it. The thing is just awesome. I can’t think of the last time I picked up my metal jack plane. Steve Voight is making very good wooden planes from what I hear (I have not used one of his, although some members here have I believe).

Stan is correct that they are not as stable as metal planes, but if your shop is conditioned, that is not so much of a problem. They will wear, but I doubt you will wear one out in your lifetime. I have a wooden try that has three names (three generations?) stamped on it. It is still going strong.

Nicholas,

I almost never use a long metal plane, woodies are the only way to go. Maybe if I were still 20 years old and could still pick up the back end of VW's I might use the LN #8 instead of it collecting dust in the plane till. ECE planes are very inexpensive and work well, I also have all of Steve's planes and they are exceptional.

ken

[Prashun Patel]

Reading the fervency of the responses and knowing the fervency of my own opinion, I'm concluding that this is completely personal. Buy what your gut says. All 3 of those choices from those 2 makers will resell fairly easily if your gut, skills, or preferences change in a year.

[Charles Bjorgen]

I made that choice about five years ago and went with the Lie-Nielsen no. 4 (not bronze). I have a couple other smoothers ranging from Stanleys, Bedrock and a couple no. 3’s including Woodriver. Some with stock irons, a couple with Hock irons and one Stanley type 11 equipped with the PM V-11cutter. I’ve spent time with all of them and they work well but as soon as I pick up the Lie-Nielsen I experience a difference in how much better it seems to work. And so far I’ve had no trouble sharpening the A2 iron.

[David Bassett]

Don't know why I'm bothering, as Prashun says it's personal. However....

Since the original premise implies a willingness to learn to restore & setup old planes, I suggest the best strategy is to get on with it. Acquire the planes you can, restore them, and use them. Later, only when it becomes clear which plane you are missing for your work flow that can't be found reasonably (condition or price), cash in your premium plane "coupon" to fill the hole you've identified.

All the specific suggestions are the suggesters favorite or least available plane and only coincidentally align with anyone else's needs.

[Brian Holcombe]

I also use mainly wooden bodied planes, but still I can't help but use a #7 and #4 LN pretty regularly. I prefer to edge joint with an iron bodied plane because they do not wear to any degree along the center. Edge jointing with a wooden plane is harsh on the plane sole if the edge that you are jointing is narrower than the sole.

[Pat Barry]

The OP is asking a question that doesn't have a universally accepted answer. Some folks, have one of everything, yet will continue to buy any new thing that comes along. Others have a few trusted tools that they have used for years and have no reason to buy anything new.

[Steve Voigt]

I also use mainly wooden bodied planes, but still I can't help but use a #7 and #4 LN pretty regularly. I prefer to edge joint with an iron bodied plane because they do not wear to any degree along the center. Edge jointing with a wooden plane is harsh on the plane sole if the edge that you are jointing is narrower than the sole.

That's an interesting comment; I have to disagree. I've edge jointed thousands of feet of stock with wooden planes and not had any problems with wear.
The only place I've found wear to be an issue is with end grain shooting, because (A) you're always hitting the sole in the same spot, at least if your shooting board is not ramped, and (B) end grain is so much harder and more abrasive. But with long grain planing in a vise, it's really not an issue for me. I might be biased though. :p

[Jerry Olexa]

my choice LN LA Jack....

[Brian Holcombe]

That's an interesting comment; I have to disagree. I've edge jointed thousands of feet of stock with wooden planes and not had any problems with wear.
The only place I've found wear to be an issue is with end grain shooting, because (A) you're always hitting the sole in the same spot, at least if your shooting board is not ramped, and (B) end grain is so much harder and more abrasive. But with long grain planing in a vise, it's really not an issue for me. I might be biased though. :p

Could be due to the small lands I set on my Japanese planes, I’ve put a mouth insert into a few of them and that cures the issue.

[Frederick Skelly]

That's an interesting comment; I have to disagree. I've edge jointed thousands of feet of stock with wooden planes and not had any problems with wear.
The only place I've found wear to be an issue is with end grain shooting, because (A) you're always hitting the sole in the same spot, at least if your shooting board is not ramped, and (B) end grain is so much harder and more abrasive. But with long grain planing in a vise, it's really not an issue for me. I might be biased though. :p

Glad to hear from you again Steve!
Fred

[Matt Lau]

I agree with Stan on this one, although I'm a LV fan.

A good vintage jointer is hard to find used.
They seem to get dinged, dropped, warped, etc.

By the time you've counted how many hours it took you to lap it true and flat, the LN or LV will look really cheap.

-Matt

ps. FWIW, I think the custom bevel down LV jointer is better than their bevel up because of the square sides. Much more useful to joint thinner pieces of wood. This was Stan's greatest argument in favor of the LN over the LV at the time...and he was right! Make sure your jointer has square sides.

pps. Depends on what you're doing. If you're guitarbuilding, you'd be hard pressed to beat a LV LA BU Jack. It's just the right size for jointing tops/backs, thicknessing, and precision work.

[Ray Selinger]

By the time you've counted how many hours it took you to lap it true and flat, the LN or LV will look really cheap.

Yes, though it's pleasant mindless work.

[Jim Koepke]

By the time you've counted how many hours it took you to lap it true and flat, the LN or LV will look really cheap.




Yes, though it's pleasant mindless work.

My #7 took me the longest to clean up the rust off the sole and it wasn't more than an hour. To the best of my recollection most of my planes didn't get much lapping of the sole. Mostly it is a smoother that needs lapping and then only if you want to see how thin you can shave wood.

My #7 cost me $21.25. For the hours put in on rehabbing it someone would have to be paying me some pretty good money to make the LN or LV look cheap in comparison. Being retired gives me more time than others. It may also offer less disposable income.

The #7 took a bit more time since not only was it in a pretty bad state, it was documented and painted. Of all my planes the #4 and the #7 were repainted and give me a warm fuzzy feeling each time they are in use.

Here is the rehab post:

https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?114373-Fettling-A-Plane-from-Junker-to-Jointer

As Ray said, it can be pleasant and rewarding work.

jtk

[Matt Evans]

If I was going to buy a 'premium' plane it wouldn't be LV or LN, I would buy a Sauer & Steiner panel plane.
Them's my two cents worth.
Darrell


That is what I was going to post. (Although I do have some Veritas Planes and such already. . .)

I seriously want to grab a panel plane from Konrad and a smoother from Raney.

[Stew Hagerty]

I absolutely adore my vintage Stanley Sweetheart #8 and could never think of replacing it. I also have a #7 Sweetheart, but don't use it nearly as much.

I'm going to just throw a few things out there and see what sticks to the wall.

* My LV Skew Rabbet Plane is far superior to and Woody Moving Fillister plane I have found.
* The LV Small Plow Plane is a dream to use. I enjoy using it much more than my Vintage #45 (and it cost less too).
* I have LV's Shooting Plane & Track and don't know what I ever did without it.
* Lie Nielsen's Rabbet Block Plane is indispensable in my shop.
* Speaking of block planes... I don't know how I would survive without my LV Low Angle Block Plane equipped with their Tote & Knob. It works like a Stanly #2, but it actually fits in your hand. It fills both the block plane and small smoother roles beautifully. Especially if you get the optional high-angle and toothing blades.

All of that said though, my go-to, reach for it every day, best plane on my shelf is: Lee Valley's Bevel Up Smoother.

378636
Hands down it is leaps and bounds above every other plane I use in form and function. I keep the high-angle blade in it, although I do use the standard blade on occasion, and it takes the wispiest shavings, down to .001" even on tiger maple. I also added their optional "slow adjuster" and it makes fine tuning a breeze.

So... There is my 2 cents. Now you all can tear me down and beat me up over it.

[Stewie Simpson]

By the time you've counted how many hours it took you to lap it true and flat, the LN or LV will look really cheap.

Yes, though it's pleasant mindless work.

Ray; this video goes for 7min. If you make an allowance for the banter it likely took the presenter less than 5min to flatten and ease the outer edges on a Stanley #4 sole. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQyjLV92224

[Patrick Chase]

ps. FWIW, I think the custom bevel down LV jointer is better than their bevel up because of the square sides. Much more useful to joint thinner pieces of wood. This was Stan's greatest argument in favor of the LN over the LV at the time...and he was right! Make sure your jointer has square sides.

I think that bevel down jointers are better than bevel up because they have cap irons, which IMO are actually more important for jointing than they are for smoothing. There are several ways to productively smooth difficult woods, but the same cannot be said about jointing.

[John C Cox]

Which one would I buy first?

The one I used a lot but feel it is hampered by poor execution of the design...
For me - I use block planes more than anything else.. And I often find that my hopes about the latest thrift store find are dashed by the rocks of reality..

My WoodRiver low angle block plane was like a lightning bolt out of a blue sky compared to my previous Stanleys and Miscellaneous block planes... And I am seriously thinking about one of the LV or LN small block plane...

A #4 is also on my list... I use it a lot and I don't really like my current stable...

I can forgive the sins of a plane I hardly ever use so long as it more or less works when I need it to.. So for example - I don't use my Millers Falls #22 battleship often - but it works well enough... So it can stay...

[Matt Lau]

Hey John,

I'm a diehard Lee Valley fan, but I think the Lie Nielson small block plane feels better in the hand. My small block plane (regular pitch) is my favorite block plane.

[John Sanford]

Veritas Combination Plane.

Reasoning: Vintage combination planes are a) rare hereabouts b) a total crapshoot on both completeness and actual usability. Sure, it may be NIB, but is that because it got purchased and then forgotten in a half dozen moves and inheritances, or is it because it was tried and turned out to be one of "those planes"? It's simply not an adventure I'm interested in taking.

Second option would be the LV Shooting Plane.

Now, in fairness, I'm not really a good candidate for this question. I have 3, 4 if we count the Stanley 6c that needs rehab, vintage planes, and I barely even use them anymore, the newer planes are just tighter. Almost everything else is either LV or LN, with a single late 90s Stanley (England) #7 and Record #4 thrown in for good measure . I built my plane hangar mostly while living in Las Vegas. Very, very, very poor pickins for rust hunting. Folks jettisoned old handtools BEFORE coming to Vegas.

[Jim Koepke]

living in Las Vegas. Very, very, very poor pickins for rust hunting. Folks jettisoned old handtools BEFORE coming to Vegas.

One of thing to consider for rust hunting adventures is the history of the area. Large well developed areas had a lot of people before the 20th century. A lot of people usually means a very diverse population with some folks being carpenters and furniture makers. Those are the kinds of folks who owned, used and left to heirs the tools we seek.

Las Vegas wasn't incorporated into a city until 1911. There was a Mission in San Francisco in 1776 if my memory is working.

The longer an area has been settled, the more likely there will be old tools to be found.

Las Vegas (or lost wages as some call it) likely lost many of the old tools to gamblers pawning them. Then the tourist likely purchased them and took them from the area.

jtk

[David Ryle]

So this is mostly hypothetical.

If you were to have a plane collection build on decent user vintage planes but could buy one premium LN or LV what would it be?

A no 4 because of the advantages of perfectly tuned smoother plane?
A specialty like a shooting plane and tracks for a shooting board?
A low angle jack?

Which one new premium plane would you get to supplement rust hunting?
In my fantasy Christie Brinkly is walking towards me wearing a bikini and carrying a Karl Holtey Jointer with a flame maple body,just gorgeous...........and then I wake up. Buy only what you NEED, you'll be happier in the end,no buyers remorse. Spend your money on lumber.

[Ray Selinger]

Stewie, I'm always being the heretic , I let the little pixies do most of the work with a 6x48 belt sander, after doing the first # 4 by hand. It was how they were made.

[lowell holmes]

I have a #3 Bailey, and 604, 605, and 607 Bedrock Planes. I also have a 5 1/2 Bailey similar to the one below. It is 2 3/4" x 15". It is
a big plane.
https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0geKVyvvY1afXAAyRwPxQt.?p=bailey+5+1+ 2+jack+plane&fr=yhs-pty-pty_email&fr2=piv-web&hspart=pty&hsimp=yhs-pty_email&type=em_appfocus1_cr

The 607 bedrock is 2 3/4" X 21 3/4".379575
It is a big plane. It has a Veritas iron and breaker.

I just noticed the Japanning is deteriorated. I will remove the Japanning and coat it with black automotive enamel. That will make it clean and fresh again.
OPBTW, the photo is a download