New to turning. Need help with log I.D. please.

[Henry Neufeld]

As stated in the title, I am new to wood turning, (about 1/2 year in) and am starting to get a little more adventurous.

I managed to pick up some logs, fresh cut. I need help identifying one of them, and would very much appreciate any input anyone might have.

I know two of them are black locust.

I live on the eastern US. Mountains of N.C.

I am having trouble identifying the third log. It is big (20" at the ends, and kinda swollen, maybe 23" in the middle), heavy, and light colored. It has a lot of vines on the outside that were chopped off. (English ivy). Hard to discern the bark appearance. But it is grey, on the light side I think, with not very deep nor wide wrinkles. (1/4 - 3/8" wide)

I looked at the log with my macro lens and took a photo, unsure the exact magnification achieved, as I cropped this down. I tried to approximate 10x, but who knows...

I used wood database wood ID utility (http://www.wood-database.com/wood-finder/), and the furthest I got was maybe some kind of ash?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, with warm regards,
Hank

[Len Mullin]

Hello Henry, welcome to the Creek. I'm not sure of what type of tree you have, but from your description and the look of the end grain, it could very well be Ash. In the picture, it does look like it has the open pores, that Ash is known to have. More pictures might help with the identification, did you ask the person who cut the tree down what type it was?
Len

[Dennis Ford]

I see rays and open pores, making me think it is one of the red oak family. Possibly water oak.

[John K Jordan]

I looked at the log with my macro lens and took a photo, unsure the exact magnification achieved, as I cropped this down. I tried to approximate 10x, but who knows...
I used wood database wood ID utility (http://www.wood-database.com/wood-finder/), and the furthest I got was maybe some kind of ash?


Hello Hank!

Is the end grain in that photo painted with sealer? If so, you could see the wood far better if you cut off a small piece, shave the end grain with a single-edge razor blade, and look at it with a magnifier. (as described in section 7 in this Wood Database article: http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-identification-guide/ ) I use a piece no bigger than 1/2" or 3/4" square. All that is needed is a look at two or three rings.

Note that the bottom of the ID page given tells how to get the US gov lab to ID the wood.

The bands of early-wood pores in ash are usually wider (2-4 pores wide) but those in your picture look like they are mostly 1 and sometimes 2 pores wide. Also, in ash the section just after the early-wood pores is usually fairly sparse but your photo that section appears loaded with late-wood pores. It would be far easier to tell with a cleanly cut sample. (and a higher magnification)

BTW, this is my favorite magnifier, 10x, lighted, great optics, and fairly cheap (although the price used to be a little less): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMDIOBK

Also, if you are interested in wood ID, this is my favorite book: https://www.amazon.com/Identifying-Wood-Accurate-Results-Simple/dp/0942391047 Hoadley has a step-by-step procedure to narrow down the id of many common domestic species.

I find a good UV light is occasionally useful in ID too. You mentioned black locust - locust glows bright green under 365nm light.

JKJ

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I am not going to tell you where to go to find out what wood this is, sorry.

This wood is Elm, showing the bark can sometimes help us to ID wood, but the picture is clear enough to ID it for those that know how to take all there is and come up with the answer.

[Henry Neufeld]

Hello Henry, welcome to the Creek. I'm not sure of what type of tree you have, but from your description and the look of the end grain, it could very well be Ash. In the picture, it does look like it has the open pores, that Ash is known to have. More pictures might help with the identification, did you ask the person who cut the tree down what type it was?
Len

I did ask, they told me it was poplar. I know this to be false, seeing the grain confirmed it for me.


I see rays and open pores, making me think it is one of the red oak family. Possibly water oak.

I'll check out some info on water oak. Thanks!


Hello Hank!

Is the end grain in that photo painted with sealer? If so, you could see the wood far better if you cut off a small piece, shave the end grain with a single-edge razor blade, and look at it with a magnifier. (as described in section 7 in this Wood Database article: http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-identification-guide/ ) I use a piece no bigger than 1/2" or 3/4" square. All that is needed is a look at two or three rings. I did not seal the log at the time of the picture being taken. It is sealed now though. I'll try to clean a piece up using your suggested razor knife method. The wood was so wet, I had no idea how to clean the end grain up. I cut the log off the main trunk myself with my sharp chainsaw.

Note that the bottom of the ID page given tells how to get the US gov lab to ID the wood. This is awesome. Thank you for pointing this out, as I did not see it.

The bands of early-wood pores in ash are usually wider (2-4 pores wide) but those in your picture look like they are mostly 1 and sometimes 2 pores wide. Also, in ash the section just after the early-wood pores is usually fairly sparse but your photo that section appears loaded with late-wood pores. It would be far easier to tell with a cleanly cut sample. (and a higher magnification) I will try to get a cleaner sample and closer photo. If it helps at all the tree was split into two trunks about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way up, and the trunks stayed close to each other but not growing against each other.

BTW, this is my favorite magnifier, 10x, lighted, great optics, and fairly cheap (although the price used to be a little less): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CMDIOBK

Also, if you are interested in wood ID, this is my favorite book: https://www.amazon.com/Identifying-Wood-Accurate-Results-Simple/dp/0942391047 Hoadley has a step-by-step procedure to narrow down the id of many common domestic species.

I find a good UV light is occasionally useful in ID too. You mentioned black locust - locust glows bright green under 365nm light. Neat! :D

JKJ

Hello John! Thank you for all the tips. Specific replies in bold.


I am not going to tell you where to go to find out what wood this is, sorry.

This wood is Elm, showing the bark can sometimes help us to ID wood, but the picture is clear enough to ID it for those that know how to take all there is and come up with the answer.

Thank you for your certain I.D.! I am here to learn, so it would be even more beneficial to me if you could explain why you think it is elm, and which specific elm you know this to be. I looked at elm, but some things threw me off: the way the rays were spaced and how contrasting they were, the wavy squiggle parenchyma pattern seen in elm photos I looked at did not seem to match. The color also seemed too light in my sample. Any further explanation would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you all for your help so far. I am going to try and get a more clear and zoomed in photo. I will also try to send a sample to the US Govt.! Exciting. In the mean time the log is sealed and will sit off ground until I have time to chunk it up.

Warm regards, cheers all!

-Hank

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I am not able to tell what species of Elm you have there, probably White Elm AKA as American Elm, going by the color.

Why do I know this is Elm ? look at the picture, where the lines point, you can see the zigzag pattern of the grain a telltale sign for Elm, Honey Locust has a similar grain but is quite different in color.

377933

Here is another picture that shows the Elm endgrain

377934

[Henry Neufeld]

Thank you that is indeed helpful. I appreciate your time. I will see if I can clean the grain up when the log has dried a bit, and check my ID books and that website again.

[Reed Gray]

My first thought was Tree of Heaven, very light weight and grows fine in asphalt....

robo hippy

[Leo Van Der Loo]

My first thought was Tree of Heaven, very light weight and grows fine in asphalt....

robo hippy

Ailanthus does look quite different Reed, I turned a bunch of that wood, here are a couple pictures of it, the interlocking grain the Elm shows is absent in Ailanthus.

378036 378033 378034 378035

[Henry Neufeld]

Ailanthus does look quite different Reed, I turned a bunch of that wood, here are a couple pictures of it, the interlocking grain the Elm shows is absent in Ailanthus.

378036 378033 378034 378035


My first thought was Tree of Heaven, very light weight and grows fine in asphalt....

robo hippy

I thought it might be Ailanthus at first as well. Was hoping it was not that. It is very heavy though.

Nice work there Leo! for a weed wood, those look damn good!

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I thought it might be Ailanthus at first as well. Was hoping it was not that. It is very heavy though.

Nice work there Leo! for a weed wood, those look damn good!

Thanks Henry :)

Henry the smell of Ailanthus isn’t nice ;), luckily it disappears when dry, the wood isn’t very hard, turns very well, dries without any problems and is good looking, IMO :).

Here’s another one I turned and I do like, not the same one as in previous post, yes similar.

378132

[Reed Gray]

Only had a couple of chunks of Allanthus, and my main memory was that it was very open grained, as in I could see through the grain holes. Didn't care for it. The first picture looked too light colored for elm, and the bark didn't look right. We don't get much of either out here in Oregon.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

Only had a couple of chunks of Allanthus, and my main memory was that it was very open grained, as in I could see through the grain holes. Didn't care for it. The first picture looked too light colored for elm, and the bark didn't look right. We don't get much of either out here in Oregon.

robo hippy

I've never turned it but I hate those weed trees. I dug up and burned about a dozen behind my barn, some fairly large, digging up roots and all as deep as I could (about 6'-8' down). I still occasionally have one come back but I take it out when I find it. The male trees are stink more than any other tree, especially the leaves and branches. Curses on the memory of who ever imported the Tree of Hades (er, Heaven), privet, bush honeysuckle, and kudzu!

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

Why do I know this is Elm ? look at the picture, where the lines point, you can see the zigzag pattern of the grain a telltale sign for Elm, Honey Locust has a similar grain but is quite different in color.

Sugarberry (hackberry) also has zigzag patterns like that.

ETA: oh, yeah, it's also the right color (though it'll be gray in a month) and the very thin "skin" of grey bark is also very consistent with hackberry. Also consistent is his inability to describe the bark beyond the color (it's a tough one!).

I'm going to guess it's sugarberry.

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/hackberry.htm

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Sugarberry (hackberry) also has zigzag patterns like that.

ETA: oh, yeah, it's also the right color (though it'll be gray in a month) and the very thin "skin" of grey bark is also very consistent with hackberry. Also consistent is his inability to describe the bark beyond the color (it's a tough one!).

I'm going to guess it's sugarberry.

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/hackberry.htm

Hé Bob, you got me there, yes Hackberry being a Elm related species does have the interlocking grain, very much like the other Elm species, and as you say the wood is much lighter in color, I have turned only a couple of Hackberry pieces, found the wood not attractive, seen pictures of spalted that did look much better.

The only Elm with a thin bark is the Lacebark Elm, AKA Chinese Elm, or branch and limbs of the other Elm, like Siberian Elm.
378178

So yes you certainly might be right, that it is Hackberry, it being an Elm related species, I don’t know the difference between the Hackberry that grows here or the Sugar Berry, not sure I ever seen it.

I have always thought that any wood is a good wood to turn, at least to find what it looks like and how it stands up, one can haul there noses up to native grown wood, and have to turn imported tropical wood, I don’t think tropical forest have to be destroyed so we can make silly sticks etc from it, just the way I look at that.