Domino - Center on 3/4" Stock?

[Jason Lester]

I'm seriously considering the purchase of a Festool Domino. I've watched lots of videos showing the use for different joints and such. I know that the centering marks for stock thickness are in metric vs imperial. Almost everything I make is with 3/4" actual thickness stock. I see that Seneca makes an adapter for 1/2" and 3/4" nominal stock, but I assume they mean the newer thinner thicknesses of 1/2" and 3/4" plywood. What are people doing to make it easiest to perfectly center your Domino cuts in 3/4" solid wood?

[Jamie Buxton]

You can set the depth to anything you want. There’s a scale (metric) to help with the setting. Or to make the depth setting easily repeatable, you can make a spacer to slide into the depth stop while you’re setting the depth. If you set the built-in stop to 16 mm (one of the presets), and add a spacer of .060”, you’ll be centered on .75” stock.

[Dave Richards]

Does it matter if the slots aren't perfectly centered on the thickness of the stock? It's most important that the slots are the same distance from the reference edges on both pieces. 8 mm is pretty close to 3/8 in. And will get the slots pretty close to center

[Jim Becker]

What Dave says is true...as long as you are referencing from the correct surfaces, variation from centering doesn't matter. As to the metric scale, if you don't work in metric (I recently converted to metric myself and am loving it), it's handy to have a digital caliper in your shop so you can measure thickness in both inches and MM and convert back and forth in a snap. That will make it very easy to use tools that only have metric scales with stock that's already sized to Imperial thickness. They are not expensive, either.

[Matt Day]

Making a shim sounds like a good call, but it can be tough to get dead on 3/4 all the time. I could have everything planned on 3/4 then realize I need to take a bit more off because of tearout for instance.

It also shouldn’t matter if it’s centered, as long as you use the same reference face and adjust accordingly.

[marty fretheim]

Seneca sells the plastic replacement thickness gauges for both Dominos in imperial. Kinda spendy though.

[Jason Lester]

Thanks for the tips. I just placed the order for the Domino 500 kit plus the tenon assortment. I have a large kitchen hutch next on the list with tons of mortise/tenon joints.

Jason

[Jeff Ramsey]

Tim Celeski discusses his solution to your exact concern.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/07/30/centering-the-festool-domino-on-imperial-based-materials

[Simon MacGowen]

Tim Celeski discusses his solution to your exact concern.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/07/30/centering-the-festool-domino-on-imperial-based-materials

Centered placements are BAD!

Frankly, I read that article when it first came out and my immediate conclusion was that Tim created a solution to a problem that did not exist. If his solution was indeed a practical one, many vendors would start making a commercial version of his.

I started using the DF500 and later the XL as well almost since Day 1 they were released and I work with both scales of measurements. Never one time did I have to worry about centering any domino placements.

People jump on gadgets all the time and there are many after-the-market Festool gadgets that people love. Trust me, the dominoplate is totally unnecessary for sheet work or any furniture making.

In fact, you DONT want a centered placement (which may still be off a tad) because you couldn't tell by sight if the mating pieces are properly oriented.

The advice given above regarding going by the reference edge is sound and is the only solution one needs.

Simon

[Jason Lester]

Centered placements are BAD!

Frankly, I read that article when it first came out and my immediate conclusion was that Tim created a solution to a problem that did not exist. If his solution was indeed a practical one, many vendors would start making a commercial version of his.

I started using the DF500 and later the XL as well almost since Day 1 they were released and I work with both scales of measurements. Never one time did I have to worry about centering any domino placements.

People jump on gadgets all the time and there are many after-the-market Festool gadgets that people love. Trust me, the dominoplate is totally unnecessary for sheet work or any furniture making.

In fact, you DONT want a centered placement (which may still be off a tad) because you couldn't tell by sight if the mating pieces are properly oriented.

The advice given above regarding going by the reference edge is sound and is the only solution one needs.

Simon

You're right, I was over thinking it. My mind likes things to be organized and setup properly, but once the joint's assembled, no one will ever know if it's slightly off inside.

Jason

[Sam Murdoch]

In fact, you DONT want a centered placement (which may still be off a tad) because you couldn't tell by sight if the mating pieces are properly oriented.

The advice given above regarding going by the reference edge is sound and is the only solution one needs.

Simon

^ Excellent point to have made. A visual off center is very useful and will save you from making mistakes through a glue up of your assemblies. ALSO - if and when you are setting shelves, keeping more of the thickness on the top makes a stronger shelf as regards its load capacity. The important objective with the Domino, or biscuits, is to reference the respective faces.

[Jim Becker]

I agree that an asymmetric domino placement can help insure that the face you wanted to show is the one that shows..assuming, of course, that you used the "correct" reference surfaces. LOL (IE...."stuff" happens ;) )

[Chris Fournier]

As a Canadian old enough to start off in Imperial and then have to take on metric I can tell you that 10 mm is close to 3/8". 1 mm equals .040". Dead centre of whatever is only an idea, it won't make great wooden joints and in some cases may not even be a useful objective.

[Matthew Hills]

Three comments:
- I've never seen a perfect 3/4" anything, so trying to have a tool set to perfectly center on 3/4" doesn't seem useful. Getting something close to center is the general goal, and tracking reference surfaces is very important.
- I do have and like the Seneca Domiplate you mentioned. Primarily because it works well ergonomically.
- if worrying about metric conversions, don't forget the plunge depth / domino length is in the mix, too.

Matt

[Randy Heinemann]

All those that say centering doesn’t matter are correct. It only matters in the user’s mind. The Domino works off the reference face the fence is sitting on to cut the slot. So as long as you reference and mark everything correctly to begin with the result will be perfect every time. I’m sure the jig in FWW works well. It’s just not necessary. You use Domino tenons glued togetether as spacers to get the height you want. Flow enough to center every time.

[Derek Cohen]

It is good workworking practice to work from a reference side. This is fundamental to hand tool use, since one does not always four-square every board, or accept that every board is actually square all round. It is no less important with machine and power tools. When the dependency to make all pieces identical is no longer all-important, then the need to centre Dominos disappears. Anywhere close to centre is good - as long as the same reference side is used for all parts. The Seneca fence is a great time saver.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[roger wiegand]

Agree with the desirability of physical references to keep your boards in the desired orientation. (been there, made that mistake!).

As to the OP's original general question, just plane your boards to 19 mm rather than your usual 3/4" and the scales will work fine. Chances are your "3/4 inch" plywood is already 19, 18, or even 17 mm.

[jack duren]

You're right, I was over thinking it. My mind likes things to be organized and setup properly, but once the joint's assembled, no one will ever know if it's slightly off inside.

Jason

Nothing wrong with centering the Domino... Do it all the time on tables and benches...

[Charles P. Wright]

I use the Domiplate off the same reference edge instead of worrying about if it is actually centered. The domiplate won't work if you're doing a shelf in the middle of a cabinet, but otherwise I think that it is simpler to use than the normal fence for sheet goods. For face frames/doors I like the regular fence instead.

Charles

[Bill McNiel]

Why I like, and use, the Seneca Domiplate;
Ergonomics
One side for 1/2" the other for 3/4"
I frequently use both settings to achieve a 1/8" offset (great for face frames relative to cabinet bottoms, shelves, etc.)

[Art Mann]

The self centering dowel jigs are always less accurate and harder to deal with than the jigs that register off of one face. I guess it is the same with the Domino.

[Simon MacGowen]

Why I like, and use, the Seneca Domiplate;
Ergonomics
One side for 1/2" the other for 3/4"
I frequently use both settings to achieve a 1/8" offset (great for face frames relative to cabinet bottoms, shelves, etc.)

I won't dispute with anyone who asserts the dominoplate is better in ergonomics because it is a subjective assessment. However, I have never been sure that the 3/4" sheet stock I get from various sources is uniformly 3/4" thick or is indeed 3/4" as per the specification set out by the dominoplate. In other words, when you think you are centering on the ply with the jig, you may not be in reality. Of course, it doesn't hurt even if you are not as long as you are making cuts against the reference face or edge. The question then becomes why spending $70 on a "centering" jig that doesn't really do the centering function on every board?

Also, what are you going to do when stock isn't 1/2" or 3/4"? To center or not to?

Simon

[Sam Murdoch]

Reference the faces and still never any need for centering - IMHO. I prefer slightly below center. On thicker stock the top of the domino can be set on the centerline to land below the centerline. Even on slightly off centerline situations, you'd be amazed how easily your eye will discern slightly off center.

[Ted Derryberry]

I really couldn't care less about a Festool Domino, but I have a couple of observations on material thickness.

Plywood is rarely a truly consistent thickness, much less actually 3/4". In my experience over several years with baltic birch it has varied by as much as 1/16" (0.063"). Some of this is different mills, but there is variation from one bundle to another from the same mill, a lesser variation from sheet to sheet within a bundle and even some variation across a sheet with edges tending to be slightly thinner than the middle. I really can't speak to other types of plywood, but would be surprised if its any more consistent. That said, I doubt any tool company is designing anything to fit 3/4" or 1/2" plywood. If they are its a fool's errand.

A couple of posters above claim that material is rarely "perfectly 3/4"". Well I guess that depends on your definition of "perfect". I regularly mill material to 3/4", or whatever thickness I'd like, to within 0.002". No, that's not "perfect", but it's damn close and that's the worst case. Much of the stock does come out to a perfect reading per my calipers. I'm currently using a Hammer A3-31, but I did it with my previous Delta bench top planer also. I can't imagine trying to build anything with precision if I couldn't mill the lumber with precision in the first place. 0.010" is a world of difference when it comes to fitting a panel in a groove or getting a proper glue joint.

[Jim Becker]

However, I have never been sure that the 3/4" sheet stock I get from various sources is uniformly 3/4" thick or is indeed 3/4" as per the specification set out by the dominoplate.

I agree that for sheet goods, there may be little value in an accessory that assumes a particular thickness...so-called 3/4" stock generally isn't unless it's something like MDF. Most plywood is actually metric thickness and in the 18mm neighborhood these days even though it's sold as 3/4". The really inexpensive stuff may even be thinner and variable in thickness...I found that to be the case recently with some "import" 3/4" birch multi-ply that came in at about 17.5mm to my frustration. (fortunately, only for utility use) Domiplate for solid stock where the maker has control of the thickness makes more sense, however.

Regardless of the type of stock or actual thickness or machine add-ons like Domiplate, using reference faces is pretty much going to be the "best practice" for sure...

[Rod Sheridan]

What Dave says is true...as long as you are referencing from the correct surfaces, variation from centering doesn't matter. As to the metric scale, if you don't work in metric (I recently converted to metric myself and am loving it), it's handy to have a digital caliper in your shop so you can measure thickness in both inches and MM and convert back and forth in a snap. That will make it very easy to use tools that only have metric scales with stock that's already sized to Imperial thickness. They are not expensive, either.

Bingo!

Convert to metric, it made everything so much easier when I did that.............Rod.

[Jim Becker]

Bingo!

Convert to metric, it made everything so much easier when I did that.............Rod.

I actually have done that myself, Rod...and after only a a month or so I totally hate measuring things in inches. LOL The only issue I've had is that I have to translate things back to my client in inches, but the major dimensions of the current commission more or less are at common sizing in Imperial.

[jack duren]

I really couldn't care less about a Festool Domino, but I have a couple of observations on material thickness.

Plywood is rarely a truly consistent thickness, much less actually 3/4". In my experience over several years with baltic birch it has varied by as much as 1/16" (0.063"). Some of this is different mills, but there is variation from one bundle to another from the same mill, a lesser variation from sheet to sheet within a bundle and even some variation across a sheet with edges tending to be slightly thinner than the middle. I really can't speak to other types of plywood, but would be surprised if its any more consistent. That said, I doubt any tool company is designing anything to fit 3/4" or 1/2" plywood. If they are its a fool's errand.

A couple of posters above claim that material is rarely "perfectly 3/4"". Well I guess that depends on your definition of "perfect". I regularly mill material to 3/4", or whatever thickness I'd like, to within 0.002". No, that's not "perfect", but it's damn close and that's the worst case. Much of the stock does come out to a perfect reading per my calipers. I'm currently using a Hammer A3-31, but I did it with my previous Delta bench top planer also. I can't imagine trying to build anything with precision if I couldn't mill the lumber with precision in the first place. 0.010" is a world of difference when it comes to fitting a panel in a groove or getting a proper glue joint.

Milling lumber and buying plywood are two different things....

[Simon MacGowen]

Milling lumber and buying plywood are two different things....

Of course, the accessory can be used for milled stock, too (assuming the milled stock is exactly 1/2" or 3/4" as per the domiplate's spec.. which is quite an assumption to start with).

However, anyone who followed the domiplate story on Day 1 knows why or what the product was created for:

https://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/domiplate-for-1-2-and-3-4-ply

Simon

[Ted Derryberry]

Milling lumber and buying plywood are two different things....

Exactly, which is why addressed each issue in a separate paragraph. One for the people who seem to think plywood is consistent and the other for those who don't seem to think it's possible to mill lumber to an exact thickness.

Are we not allowed to address two issues in the same post?

[Ted Derryberry]

Of course, the accessory can be used for milled stock, too (assuming the milled stock is exactly 1/2" or 3/4" as per the domiplate's spec.. which is quite an assumption to start with).

However, anyone who followed the domiplate story on Day 1 knows why or what the product was created for:

https://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/domiplate-for-1-2-and-3-4-ply

Simon

What assumption? All it takes is a set of calipers to check it. If you're milling lumber without using calipers you might as well go to Home Depot to buy your lumber.

[Greg Mann]

I have lost count of how many threads I have read here and on the FOG about centering the Domino in use. Whether one is an advocate of this or not is of no concern to me, but it does seem odd that I have never, ever, read a thread about a similar concern when using a biscuit joiner. Is it because they pre-dated the internet and therefore everyone more or less worked it out for themselves without the input of a virtual woodworking community. It seems the question would be the same. Having never had a Lamello, but knowing it is SwissMade, is it not made to metric standards?

Not or trying to be snarky here, just curious why I have never seen it come up.

[jack duren]

Calipers?...................Must be a production thing...

[Simon MacGowen]

What assumption? All it takes is a set of calipers to check it. If you're milling lumber without using calipers you might as well go to Home Depot to buy your lumber.

"...to check it" against your calipers, right?

But shouldn't you be checking the thichkness against the same measurement of 3/4" (or 1/2") that was used by the domiplate manufacturer? If your 3/4" is (likely) not the same as the manufacturer's 3/4", then no matter how small the difference is, the whole argument for the centering is thrown out of the window.

Simon

[Jim Becker]

Calipers?...................Must be a production thing...
I actually use them, Jack...easier to read than the darn ruler. :)

[Ted Derryberry]

"...to check it" against your calipers, right?

But shouldn't you be checking the thichkness against the same measurement of 3/4" (or 1/2") that was used by the domiplate manufacturer? If your 3/4" is (likely) not the same as the manufacturer's 3/4", then no matter how small the difference is, the whole argument for the centering is thrown out of the window.

Simon

Have you never heard of "standards"? 3/4" is 3/4" anywhere in the world. Okay, my calipers might be off by a couple of thousandths vs. there presumably better equipment used in manufacturing, but 0.002" is truly insignificant. You can barely feel that difference in stock alignment and a couple of passes with 180 grit sandpaper removes that much anyway.

If your reasoning was valid nothing in this world would ever fit anything else, yet it does every day. :rolleyes:

[Sam Murdoch]

OMG :confused: - it's woodworking!!! 3/4" today is bigger or smaller tomorrow. Reference off the same face and all will be well. Add a slight off center so your eye can see the difference and mistakes are dramatically reduced in production.

[Simon MacGowen]

Have you never heard of "standards"? 3/4" is 3/4" anywhere in the world. Okay, my calipers might be off by a couple of thousandths vs. there presumably better equipment used in manufacturing, but 0.002" is truly insignificant. You can barely feel that difference in stock alignment and a couple of passes with 180 grit sandpaper removes that much anyway.

If your reasoning was valid nothing in this world would ever fit anything else, yet it does every day. :rolleyes:

I am not saying a difference of 0.002" matters in any woodworking activity. My point is if someone uses a domiplate to cut a mortise (on a 3/4" stock) that is, say, 0.010" off center, it is still off center, no matter how small that is. What difference does it make then if the off center -- without using the domiplate -- is 0.10" and not 0.010"

In other words, why spend the extra money on the jig when all that really matters is not how centered the mortises are cut.

Simon

[Jason Lester]

I think my question has gone a little off the rails now.

I also use calipers, mainly at the planer though. I did switch from digital to analog fractional a couple of years ago. It's accurate enough for me without sweating the tiny measurements. I think I'm going to follow that same philosophy with the centering of the dominoes.

[Cary Falk]

I am not saying a difference of 0.002" matters in any woodworking activity. My point is if someone uses a domiplate to cut a mortise (on a 3/4" stock) that is, say, 0.010" off center, it is still off center, no matter how small that is. What difference does it make then if the off center -- without using the domiplate -- is 0.10" and not 0.010"

In other words, why spend the extra money on the jig when all that really matters is not how centered the mortises are cut.

Simon

My understanding was that the Domiplate was created more to avoid the fence moving problem thus having a string of Dominoes at different heights from the reference surface. That's what I read anyway.

[Simon MacGowen]

My understanding was that the Domiplate was created more to avoid the fence moving problem thus having a string of Dominoes at different heights from the reference surface. That's what I read anyway.

That is not what I recall about the initial aim of what this jig sought to achieve. Even the current product description on the vendor's site does not mention this "movement fix" as one of its benefits. Of course, if someone finds the accessory helps them on that score, more power to them.

I am saying people who want this accessory can have it, but not for the reason of centering the mortises, because in many cases, it does not achieve that intended goal.

Someone mentioned about better ergonomics, good for him. For me who has got used to the factory design for as long as it has come out, I find these old comments on the internet helpful to those who are buying the accessory:

- The thin line on the bottom of the Domino 500 is hard to read (for some).

- As usual, leave the Domino unplugged during the process and make sure you consider the reciprocating machinery that is exposed at the bottom. The Domiplate does not extend over this area to shield the moving machinery. Careless handling could turn your palm into mush. Unlikely but just be aware of these moving parts.

- The turning on of the Domino 500 is awkward at first so a little practice is in order. If you change width, be extra cautious when turning the Domino right side up.

I have been happy with all my Domino Joiners as is and they have produced results in pursuant with my skills and not with whether or not any third party accessory (none) is used.

Simon

[Bill Fleming]

I actually have done that myself, Rod...and after only a a month or so I totally hate measuring things in inches. LOL The only issue I've had is that I have to translate things back to my client in inches, but the major dimensions of the current commission more or less are at common sizing in Imperial.

Hey Jim and Rod

Maybe a separate thread (I admit I haven't yet searched) on "going metric" your experience - I seem to be in the "in between" world due to tooling and jigs that are non-metric and my metric tools. It is easier if your key tools are European such as my Festool tools. But my Incra saw/router fence and router lift are non-metric. I thought about converting the fence but don't want to spend the money, etc. I have a special project coming up and am considering a Leigh jig.... metric or not is the key issue... any I would be interested in hearing more about the experience of both of you... Thx

[Cary Falk]

I read it somewhere. It was probably on a forum and it sounded like enough people had an issue with the fence. I wouldn't expect any company to draw attention to an issue with their tool.

[Simon MacGowen]

I read it somewhere. It was probably on a forum and it sounded like enough people had an issue with the fence. I wouldn't expect any company to draw attention to an issue with their tool.

Festool may not want to do so, but the maker of the domiplate would sure be happy to highlight it in its product description.

I think I know the fence problem you are referring to. Which is a user error, or if you may, an issue due to lack of clear instructions from the manufacturer.

Some users experience a fence drift or movement as they tighten the fence after setting it to the desired height. That sometimes happen because they have the fence down when setting the height. The "proper" way (really an experience thing as the manual doesn't say anything about this) of setting the fence with no chance of drift is to keep the fence locked up when setting the fence height. After locking the fence at the desired height, then go ahead and unlock the fence and pull it down to the desired angle (normal operation at 90*).

This procedural explanation is hard to understand to anyone who has not handled a DJ, but those who have changed how they set the fence (with the fence locked up, not down when adjusting the height) know what that is all about.

Simon

[Jim Becker]

Hey Jim and Rod

Maybe a separate thread (I admit I haven't yet searched) on "going metric" your experience - I seem to be in the "in between" world due to tooling and jigs that are non-metric and my metric tools. It is easier if your key tools are European such as my Festool tools. But my Incra saw/router fence and router lift are non-metric. I thought about converting the fence but don't want to spend the money, etc. I have a special project coming up and am considering a Leigh jig.... metric or not is the key issue... any I would be interested in hearing more about the experience of both of you... Thx


There have been a few threads, but sometimes a flame-resistant suit has been required. Some people are absolutely set in their ways. And that's just fine. The short answer to your question is yes, having tools that embrace the measuring system you choose to use is very helpful in the transition. I was personally covered there with Festool and Minimax...and some of my measuring/layout tools. The biggest frustration for me has been the dearth of metric tooling, but honestly, it doesn't matter much. Committing to it was also scare, but absolutely the way to go. Once you use it consistency for a month or three...the habit may stick.

The question is somewhat related to this thread, however, given that the scales on the tool in question are setup for metric...but in the end, it honestly doesn't matter what system you use because the majority of measurements have to be taken directly on the project and it doesn't care. :) And for a Domino, metric depth is fine no matter what simply because that's what the dominos, themselves are scaled to. And as been noted multiple times, working from reference faces eliminates any care about tight measurements for this kind of tool. Someone already mentioned that it effectively didn't matter for biscuits either, and I agree.

[Ted Derryberry]

I just work in decimal inches and don't care what the manufacturer of the tools or material intended. About the only time it's really an issue is for bolts and nuts on equipment. I finally bought an assortment of metric nuts to keep in the shop.

[Larry Edgerton]

Every Festool I own has an annoying feature, and that stupid step thing is the Dominos. Who says I want to work with the thickness they spec? Maybe I want to offset? Stupid design.

Dewalt biscuit joiners have what should be in the Festool.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Bill, since I design my furniture going metric made a lot of sense.

Instead of 3/4" thick pieces I use 20mm, same for 2" and 50mm, nobody gets out the micrometer to determine if the table leg is 2" or 50mm. Plywood in North America has been metric since the 70"s or early 80"s, as the North American Council adopted metric standards then.

Most of the tooling in the world is metric, so I can buy many 30mm bore shaper cutters for less money than 1 1/4" bore.

it's far easier to add numbers in the metric system than adding 57/64" to 9/16" and then dividing by 2.

The standard for kitchen cabinets is the 32mm system, takes a bit of learning however it makes so much sense, and all the hardware is designed to work with that standard as well

Jim touched upon the difficulty of obtaining metric measuring tools in the USA, however that's only true if you're shopping at the Borg. Lee Valley provide mail order service in the US, and machine shop suppliers will have machinist squares, and steel rules in metric.

As Jim said, once you try it out for a while, you won't go back....................Rod.

P.S. If you're building a shed and the plywood is 4 X 8, stick to that method, however for furniture or custom work, leave the Imperial system behind.

The funny thing is that the US standards for calibration are all metric, and have been for about a century as there no standards for the Imperial system except those derived from the SI system.

[Jim Becker]

Rod, measuring tools haven't been a problem...things like router bits with metric radii, etc. don't seem to exist. I don't even see them at Axminster in the UK for some reason! But that's no big deal and easy to compensate for..

[Ted Derryberry]

A table might be fine, but when my customer orders a set of 3-0 x 6-8 doors 1-3/4" thick I'll be danged if I'm going to build them using the metric system. That's just asking for mistakes on my part converting them to metric and then keeping everything straight instead of working in the system they're specified in.

I've built one table for a customer. I'm sure if I told them it was 300 cm long they'd have said, "That's too big! We only need it to be 10' long!"

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod, measuring tools haven't been a problem...things like router bits with metric radii, etc. don't seem to exist. I don't even see them at Axminster in the UK for some reason! But that's no big deal and easy to compensate for..

Interesting Jim, I don't own a router so I wasn't aware of that.

All my shaper tooling is metric with respect to radii.............Regards, Rod.

[Keith Hankins]

I'm seriously considering the purchase of a Festool Domino. I've watched lots of videos showing the use for different joints and such. I know that the centering marks for stock thickness are in metric vs imperial. Almost everything I make is with 3/4" actual thickness stock. I see that Seneca makes an adapter for 1/2" and 3/4" nominal stock, but I assume they mean the newer thinner thicknesses of 1/2" and 3/4" plywood. What are people doing to make it easiest to perfectly center your Domino cuts in 3/4" solid wood?

Not read a lot of the responses, but if this is redundant i apologize. First off dead center don't matter just get it close. Only thing you need to know is reference the same surface on all the pieces and you are good to go. I would lay out my pieces pre-assembled and make A/A,B/B, C/C, D/D marks on the pieces and draw a pencil mark to align.

Now just use the same surface and set your dept and go to town. Only recommendation I have is also use the tight setting on one face and the next widest setting on the mating face. This will give you a bit of wiggle room to align the faces. Works great and that was a great little tool. I bought it when it first came out. Sold it for almost what i paid for it, and bought a floor m&t machine (not because of any defects in the domino), it just fit my needs better i.e. dealing with smaller stock.

Cheers.

[Randy Heinemann]

Jim,

Just curious . . . Why do you feel that the Domiplate improves the process for the Domino. I own the Domino and have never really found that where the Domino is located in the joint is particularly important as long as it's close to the center. Usually, the fact that it isn't centered is a plus for me, avoiding assembling the joint incorrectly. As long as I use the same reference face the joint goes together flawlessly whether it's a regular M & T joint, a plywood glue up, or a solid wood glue up to a wider panel. For me, it is possibly the only tool I own which is self-sufficient without accessories like the Domiplate. That doesn't mean I haven't bought some but I don't find they add anything. Just curious really. Everyone has their own way of doing things.

[Jason Lester]

Got the Domino on Thursday and made a bunch of joints today for the kitchen hutch. I cut 30 joints in a couple of hours. It almost feels like cheating. No fitting with a chisel and shoulder plane, everything perfectly flush and square, really awesome.

The hardest part for me was getting used to going by marks instead of layout lines. I cut a couple in the wrong spots at first, but they'll be hidden and were easy to patch with a Domino.

[Simon MacGowen]

Congrats.

You'll find more learning points as you use the DJ down the road. Mortising middle shelves for a bookshelf is a technique worth learning as it has more applications than just shelving -- used properly, you will see the use of dadoes significantly reduced in your work. My dado set has been collecting dust and is used only for rabbeting work. Another domino skill to develop is to join bevel pieces at complementary angles (the simplest form is a miter; but when you master the angle fence, you can handle very tricky angled joints).

A common shop mistake we see is people forgetting to change the depth of cut, resulting in cut-through blunders which may or may not be fixable depending on the show faces. One trick to avoid that kind of mistake is to mortise pieces in ascending order of depth. In other words, whenever possible, finish all the pieces that have the shallower mortises before you move the next batch of pieces that have deeper mortises. This way, if you forget to change the cutting depth, you can fix it by remortising them at the proper (and deeper) depth.

There are too many domino tricks to share (I have practically made all possible screw-ups one can think of over these years), but planning ahead and marking all your pieces will prevent tons of the possible mistakes for you. By the time, you can cut and assemble a three-way miter joint, you graduate -- without fear. That is the ultimate joint test for a domino fanatic, if you ask me, because even Tage Frid confessed that every three-way miter joint was a tough one for him. To me, he was the furniture making dean.

No matter what you do, dry-fitting is a must (and that is why, cutting your mortises slightly off center is a virtue :D).

Simon

[Jamie Buxton]

Every Festool I own has an annoying feature, and that stupid step thing is the Dominos. Who says I want to work with the thickness they spec? Maybe I want to offset? Stupid design.

Dewalt biscuit joiners have what should be in the Festool.

You can the step thing out of the way, and set the table position to anything you want -- just like your biscuit joiner.

[Simon MacGowen]

You can the step thing out of the way, and set the table position to anything you want -- just like your biscuit joiner.

+1.

The steps are just for convenience and not essential for the use of the DJ. Using the steps to set depths will guarantee zero fence drift for those who are not using the proper way to set the depth.

Simon

[Larry Edgerton]

You can the step thing out of the way, and set the table position to anything you want -- just like your biscuit joiner.


Sure you can, but it is a clumsy piece of crud compared to a good system. Who needs steps? Steps? Really?

I make a lot of very large pieces that can not be transported in one piece, and it would be nice to use it for assembly points that I usually do on stepped reveals, but the Domino is too time consuming to set at a number "I" specify, so I end up using the Dewalt or Lamello.

As far as not being set to center because of a stupid system, again, Really? You are making excuses for a machine that will not easily allow you to do what you want. We all know that center is the best place for the domino.

If Senica wanted to do something, making an easily adjustable fence height with a pointer and a scale would be # one on my list, and I will buy the first one. Copy the Dewalt.

[Glen Gunderson]

Sure you can, but it is a clumsy piece of crud compared to a good system. Who needs steps? Steps? Really?


Someone who wants a repeatable reference point they can return to at any time. Need to cut a mortise to match some parts your mortised last week? No problem if you used the presets. On the other hand if you're futzing around with a scale trying to place the cut dead center, then you've got to recreate that setting exactly.



I make a lot of very large pieces that can not be transported in one piece, and it would be nice to use it for assembly points that I usually do on stepped reveals, but the Domino is too time consuming to set at a number "I" specify, so I end up using the Dewalt or Lamello.


I'd prefer a rack and pinion style fence too, but the domino one is hardly cumbersome. I'm actually having trouble envisioning your difficulty. If you want to set a custom reveal then just figure it out and use the scale. Or if you want better repeatability use a setup block to set the height difference between the pieces.




As far as not being set to center because of a stupid system, again, Really? You are making excuses for a machine that will not easily allow you to do what you want. We all know that center is the best place for the domino.


Repeatability is vastly more valuable than having the ability to center the mortise. I still can't think of why anyone would want to center something exactly using a tool that only references off of a single face. Any variation in thickness or planer snipe is going to introduce alignment problems with that. Same reason why when I cut grooves on a router table I always keep the reference side down even if I'm nominally shooting for dead center.


If Senica wanted to do something, making an easily adjustable fence height with a pointer and a scale would be # one on my list, and I will buy the first one. Copy the Dewalt.

I do think a rack and pinion fence would be an improvement but to me that's a fairly small issue.

[Larry Edgerton]

Name one machine that is adjusted by steps? Other than the Domino.

[Simon MacGowen]

Name one machine that is adjusted by steps? Other than the Domino.

No tools are perfect and any tool can be improved upon by users' feedback.

However, the steps are something I prefer to keep even if Festool offered another version that employed the piston mechanism. Here is why.

Some domino users use spacer blocks (a Fine Woodworking issue covered that recently), but that is a slow method. The DJ has such built-in capability that MOST (99%?) owners don't know. Because it is not in the manual. In my shop, I build tables with aprons and offsets are a standard feature (with some exceptions). I do the offsets without spacer blocks.

To create an offset from an apron skirt to its leg, use the STEP to set the fence for the apron skirts at one depth (say, 22mm) and mortise everything. Then set the fence to 36mm for the legs USING again the step and mortise the rest. The result is a perfect 7mm offset.

You are not the only one who may not like the DJ as a user or owner. But you can't build large scale furniture pieces or doors with biscuits. Whatever the DJ may be deficient at, it is not designed to be a replacement for every other machine.

The DJ cuts 1/3 to 2/3 of my joinery time in my shop. I sold my biscuit joiner (and bench mortising machine) almost more than a decade ago and never look back. The only time I put away the DJ is when I do a hand tool joinery.

Anyone who has tons of Festool machines and hates them has a lot of options including taking classes at Festool Training Center to learn the untold secrets and techniques (eye opening for even the experienced Festool users), keeping on hating them, or selling them -- there was one guy who did that. He used to a Festool die-hard guy (tons of Festool videos by him and practically he had every Festool tool AND every accessory available in NA) and for reasons unknown to me, he became a non-Festool guy. Just like that.

Simon

[Jason Lester]

It seems pretty adjustable to me just in the short time I've been using it. In the picture, I needed two mortises a certain distance down from the ones on the end. I read that the center of the bit is 10mm from the corner of the fence, so I clamped a short fence 10mm away, ran the fence up tight to it, then lined up my center mark and cut. I clamped both legs together to give more to balance on. It worked great.

[Simon MacGowen]

That's it!

Next time, try using this for better precision, if you have such square for narrow stock like yours: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Empire-Magnum-Fat-Boy-7-in-Aluminum-Rafter-Square-2990/100208283 You also only need one clamp.

Soon, you will find your dowel jig, biscuit joiner and even mortising machine a surplus to requirement (sell them and use the proceeds to buy more dominoes! -- the best deal is the tenon assortment (systainer with the dominoes and cutters)). I heard that they are working on the connectors for DF500 as well.

Simon

[glenn bradley]

Fine Woodworking has an article on how to make some setup blocks (http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/07/30/centering-the-festool-domino-on-imperial-based-materials).

I just took a scrap of self-stik ruler tape and did this.

378386 . 378385

Each increment is doubled; that is, an additional 1/16" on the tape is for a board that is an additional 1/8" in thickness. Gets me more than close enough if I am careful to reference off the same face. With 2 or 3 test cuts I can get it dead on and thought about making some setup blocks. I held off since little of what I do is exactly 3/4", 5/8" and so on. I may change my mind. Time will tell.

[Jamie Buxton]

Name one machine that is adjusted by steps? Other than the Domino.

Larry, several people have tried to tell you: the domino can be adjusted by steps, and it can be adjusted without steps. You get to choose.

[Jason Lester]

I actually have one of those from doing construction, but never thought of using it, good tip.

I hate dowels and never had a biscuit joiner. I do have the Delta bench mortiser. It works pretty well, but the hold-down is terrible and the table is too small. I was already planning on throwing it up on Craigslist.