Repeated Mistake gave me a smack in the hand

[Tom Bender]

A few years ago I used a 16" long push block to rip a 4" long piece of stock. The front of the block dipped into the front of the blade way before the workpiece was near it. The blade grabbed the push block by the end grain and threw it at the shop door. The block weighed about 3 pounds. It left a mark. Luckily I was out of the line of fire.

Since then I have made my push block from Balsa wood. It will not come flying off the blade. Made another one with styrofoam and it works great too.

But those are big and I still have a smaller Pine push block that I use sometimes. Seemed like the right move for trimming Ebony pegs. Wrong, I now have a couple of little marks on my palm. Those will heal in a week.

Time to find some more Balsa.

[Art Moore]

Ouch! That's why I invested in a GRR-Ripper system. Also, for cross cuts I use a small sled with hold down clamps.

[Lee Schierer]

Cutting styrofoam is nasty to cut and the slightest misalignment can cause the blade to grab it.

I use wood push sticks that look like this.
377504
I have made them from both 1/2" and 3/4" plywood. The angle of the handle applies down pressure and still lets you push the piece forward.

You didn't say how wide the piece you were ripping was, but a 4" long piece is pretty small for ripping IMO. Better to use a sled and hold the piece to it with double sided tape as you can see in the attached thumbnail where I was cutting lots of very small pieces.

[Ted Derryberry]

One of the worst kickbacks I've ever had was cutting styrofoam, the pink kind if I remember right, on a table saw. I don't do that any more.

[Matt Day]

Could you clarify the type of cut you’re making?

Based on what you’ve said it sounds to me that using the push lock/stick is the wrong (dangerous) approach and you should be using some kind of sled or miter gauge.

[Ole Anderson]

4" long is something you can expect to rotate into the blade. Push sticks with a small notch are a no-no. Why they still make them is a mystery to me. All they do is keep your fingers away from the blade. they do nothing to keep the front of the wood from lifting and rotating into the blade. You need a stick like Lee's with a long notch. Here is mine:

[Chris Parks]

4" long is something you can expect to rotate into the blade. Push sticks with a small notch are a no-no. Why they still make them is a mystery to me. All they do is keep your fingers away from the blade. they do nothing to keep the front of the wood from lifting and rotating into the blade. You need a stick like Lee's with a long notch. Here is mine:

I have to agree, I think push sticks are just plain dangerous. They are unstable to say the least and the thought of one getting thrown off the blade gives me nightmares. Use a block that rides on the surface of the table and keeps your hand low and stable. Who ever thought they were a good idea has a lot to answer for IMO. For cutting small pieces use a sled and numerous quick clamping ideas can be used when doing so to keep all ten fingers attached to your hands.

To stop the piece being cut from lifting use a narrow piece of thin plywood, attach suitable blocks each end and using those blocks to clamp it to your fence so that it is bent in an arc and applies pressure to the top surface of what is being cut. You can use the same idea horizontally as well using magnetic clamps or the mitre slot and locking strips in the slot.

[Frederick Skelly]

[Rant On]
Ripping a 4" long part on a 10" tablesaw sounds like a recipe for disaster. The saw is throwing your push sticks because this isnt the right way to do it. Tom, wake up! The machine is "talking to you". You've already had a couple close calls. Please try a different approach before you get badly hurt. Please.
[Rant off]

For example, depending on exactly what you're doing, it might be done more safely with a benchtop bandsaw or perhaps a handsaw. Or at least try what Lee suggested above.

Please be careful.

Fred

[Edit: I apologize for being so emphatic, but this just scared the devil outta me.]

[Sam Murdoch]

[Rant On]
Im sorry, but I have to disagree here. Ripping a 4" long part on a 10" tablesaw sounds like a recipe for disaster. The saw is throwing your push sticks because this isnt the right way to do it. Tom, wake up! The machine is "talking to you". You've already had a couple close calls. Please try a different approach before you get badly hurt. Please.
[Rant off]

For example, depending on exactly what you're doing, it might be done more safely with a benchtop bandsaw or even a japanese handsaw.

Please be careful.

Fred


Ripping a 4" long part on a 10" tablesaw IS a recipe for disaster. My - personal - rule is to never pass something between the blade and the fence that is smaller than the diameter of the exposed blade. If at any time the piece is completely trapped between the fence and the blade you have lost control of it - for all practical purposes. No push stick will allow you to override the blade spinning that piece back at you. Just sayin'.

[Chris Parks]

[Rant On]
Ripping a 4" long part on a 10" tablesaw sounds like a recipe for disaster. The saw is throwing your push sticks because this isnt the right way to do it. Tom, wake up! The machine is "talking to you". You've already had a couple close calls. Please try a different approach before you get badly hurt. Please.
[Rant off]



For example, depending on exactly what you're doing, it might be done more safely with a benchtop bandsaw or perhaps a handsaw. Or at least try what Lee suggested above.

Please be careful.

Fred

[Edit: I apologize for being so emphatic, but this just scared the devil outta me.]

I also regret having to be so emphatic but using push sticks for anything is a recipe for disaster. How can the hand be stable enough to control a push stick when it is unsupported in mid air?

[Ted Derryberry]

Maybe because its attached to the end of your arm? Sorry, I couldn't help but picture disembodied hand on a push stick at a table saw.

A push shoe, like the one pictured a few replies up, completely controls a short piece between the blade and the fence. I use one similar to that. The big difference is mine doesn't have the hand hole. Sticking my fingers through something that might get caught in the blade gives me the willies. I want to be able to let go of the thing in a hurry if necessary. Sometimes letting go and getting out of the way is the right response in a bad situation. Of course staying out of the situation in the first place is best.

[Ted Derryberry]

After re-reading the original post and some of the responses I think most are confused on what happened here. He wasn't using a 16" long push stick with a small notch, but a 16" long push shoe, similar to the ones recommended above. The problem was that the toe of the shoe hit the blade, likely because he was focusing on the short work piece rather than the shoe which was over 6" in front of it. The shoe is what was thrown, not the work piece. The point being that a light and soft push shoe isn't as dangerous because it isn't as likely the blade will grab it and if it does it won't be thrown with the same force (insert physics here).

Personally I think 16" is too long a shoe. Anything longer than the blade where it sticks through the table is wasted, and apparently dangerous. My push shoe has about a 6" or 7" notch. That's about the effective length of a 10" diameter blade with the gullets at the top of 3/4" thick material, which is 90% of what I work with.

[Frederick Skelly]

After re-reading the original post and some of the responses I think most are confused on what happened here. He wasn't using a 16" long push stick with a small notch, but a 16" long push shoe, similar to the ones recommended above. The problem was that the toe of the shoe hit the blade, likely because he was focusing on the short work piece rather than the shoe which was over 6" in front of it. The shoe is what was thrown, not the work piece. The point being that a light and soft push shoe isn't as dangerous because it isn't as likely the blade will grab it and if it does it won't be thrown with the same force (insert physics here).

Thanks Ted. I interpreted his post pretty much as you did. I understood it was a shoe and the rest of what you said here.

My belief is that, if his technique for performing this is throwing the shoe, he is using the wrong technique. The way the saw is reacting should be telling him he's doing it wrong ("talking to him", giving him clues) - and the poor guy isn't hearing it. I agree the length of the shoe is too great. But fixing that doesnt put him out of danger - I don't think he should be ripping such a short board on that saw without a jig or something larger to hold it. And if it were me, I wouldnt do it even then. But everybody has their own techniques and threshold of risk taking.

Fred

[Chris Parks]

Maybe because its attached to the end of your arm? Sorry, I couldn't help but picture disembodied hand on a push stick at a table saw.

A push shoe, like the one pictured a few replies up, completely controls a short piece between the blade and the fence.

Yes.........

[Ted Derryberry]

I agree 4" is definitely on the short side for a ripping operation. It's certainly not too "long" for a cross cut operation, unless the material is not "wide" enough to safely cross cut. In that case, you need to start with a larger piece of material to cut the small pieces off of using a sled or miter fence, or come at it completely differently. I have a couple of Grrrippers and generally find them too "fiddly" to set up and use, but this is a case where they would be a good solution (assuming the material isn't much wider than it is long).

If the material is say 4" wide and 4" long and you're trying to rip 1" off it then a sled would work, for one cut. At that point, 3" wide and 4" long, it would be too narrow for the length to use a sled in my opinion. Not that it couldn't be done, or that I wouldn't do it, but it would be on the risky side and not something I'd recommend to others.

Anyway, if you're having the same problem over and over you're not learning from your mistake and that's a real danger.

[Frederick Skelly]

I agree 4" is definitely on the short side for a ripping operation. It's certainly not too "long" for a cross cut operation, unless the material is not "wide" enough to safely cross cut. In that case, you need to start with a larger piece of material to cut the small pieces off of using a sled or miter fence, or come at it completely differently. I have a couple of Grrrippers and generally find them too "fiddly" to set up and use, but this is a case where they would be a good solution (assuming the material isn't much wider than it is long).

If the material is say 4" wide and 4" long and you're trying to rip 1" off it then a sled would work, for one cut. At that point, 3" wide and 4" long, it would be too narrow for the length to use a sled in my opinion. Not that it couldn't be done, or that I wouldn't do it, but it would be on the risky side and not something I'd recommend to others.

Anyway, if you're having the same problem over and over you're not learning from your mistake and that's a real danger.

+1. That's a good summary!

[Bill Dufour]

The long push stick with a tab is a great tool for pushing in oven racks without burning your fingers. Add a small notch opposite the tab and it pulls them out easily as well. Useful around a saw, not so much.
Bill


Like this one for only $10!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WW6MD4T/ref=asc_df_B06WW6MD4T5349919/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B06WW6MD4T&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198075681105&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5898483801965865661&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032276&hvtargid=pla-321136653737

[Pat Barry]

I honestly don't know what the OP was doing or how he was doing it based on his description. As always, a picture is worth a thousand words. Without knowing the details everyone, as we can see here, imagines what they will and offer misguided feedback to the OP.

[David Utterback]

Tom can add photos or description to clarify the task. He does mention ebony plugs which are used in G&G furniture. They usually are 1/4" - 3/8" square plugs that are glued into square holes. The ones that I make are no longer than 1/4". Cutting pieces this small with a normal table saw blade is not the best idea. I always trim a long piece of ebony to the right cross section with a band saw and hand planes and then cut them to length with a hand saw. I start with pieces that are greater than 6".

[Ole Anderson]

Here is my trick to cut very small pieces: I needed to cut a dozen small wedges or keys for my pool table base through-tenons. I found some contrasting black walnut and milled it to 5/8" thick to match the size of the mortises in the tails. I knew the easiest way was to cut the 5 degree angle was on my miter saw but I didn't have a safe way to hold them as my walnut stock was only 2" wide. So I ripped the stock to 7/8" and cut it into 3" lengths. I then cut a small scrap piece and ran a sharp pointed Kreg screw through it near the end and ran the screw through the scrap just far enough to catch the work and keep it from being pulled into the blade. It worked so well I am keeping the little piece to act a a finger to hold small pieces for cross cutting. No need to run the screw into the work, just enough for the point of the screw to catch the work. Click on the image to enlarge.
https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=352464&d=1485268560&thumb=1 (https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=352464&d=1485268560)https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=352465&d=1485268581&thumb=1 (https://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=352465&d=1485268581)