D-12

[lowell holmes]

I was reading in the current issue of Popular Woodworking about Bad Axe D-8 handsaws.
Well, I have a Disston D-12 10 tpi crosscut saw that I cleaned up, made a curly maple handle, new saw nuts and sharpened the saw.
It cuts fast and true. I have several Disstons.
The Bad Axe sells for $375. I don't think I will be ordering one. I'm sure they are good saws.
I have several Disston saws that I have de-grunged, made new handles, sharpened and set the teeth.

You might look around for an old one and bring it back to life. There are several on the auction site.

[Erik Manchester]

Yes, there are many good old saws out there if one is willing to do the work and pay the premium for good ones. I have a saw till full of them, but some people don’t value old and prefer shiny new and Mark makes a very nice saw indeed. Whatever works for you is fine by me.

[lowell holmes]

I find sharpening and restoring saws is another skill that improves my woodworking. It is as much fun as making something.

[Jim Koepke]

Yes, there are many good old saws out there if one is willing to do the work and pay the premium for good ones. I have a saw till full of them, but some people don’t value old and prefer shiny new and Mark makes a very nice saw indeed. Whatever works for you is fine by me.


I find sharpening and restoring saws is another skill that improves my woodworking. It is as much fun as making something.

If one is short on time and has the money, a new saw can be a delight. If one has more time and is tight on the finances, restoration is one way of having a premium quality tool.

jtk

[Dominik Dudkiewicz]

I'll probably buy a D-8 or two from Mark at some stage, or alternatively, the shorter LN hand saws. For me, and possibly due to living in Australia, I don't encounter any second hand Disstons on my regular travels and those listed online are usually very expensive and/or appear extremely rough. I just don't feel comfortable paying several hundred dollars for a second hand saw (or any tool) I can't lay my hands or eyes on before hand.

So, rather than spend hours searching, taking a big chance, and then spending time restoring, I'd rather get a beautiful saw in the configuration that suits me, in pristine condition, and get to woodworking (which is hard enough to find time for).

It may not have been the intent, but the OP seems to suggest that there isn't $375 USD value in the new saw, which I have to disagree with. Having said that, if I stumbled upon a nice second hand saw for a reasonable price I would of course jump on it; unfortunately this is unlikely to happen for me.

It's very much like the; restore a Stanley or buy a LN, discussions which come up. I don't think either is right or wrong and neither represents an absolute better value than the other.

Horses for courses I guess.

Cheers, Dom

[Stanley Covington]

Disston was the largest and most successful sawmaker the world has ever known during a time when handsawing was often the only option available to consumers. Nearly every home had a handsaw of one kind or another.

When I was a boy working summers on my Dad's jobsites, every carpenter brought handsaws to the jobsite. At least one saw per carpenter was mandatory, 2 were common, and the construction company would pay to have their crew's handsaws professionally sharpened once a week.

Disston's saws were the pinnacle of technology/craftsmanship back in the day, and its products have not been surpassed. The top of Disston's line was the No.12. The D-8 was the most popular saw among carpenters and professional woodworkers.

Disston was huge, and the FIRST company in America to produce tool steel in any volume. Forget Rockefeller. Prior to that time, high-quality steel was all imported from England. This was an important development for the American continent, and the beginning of volume industrial manufacturing on the continent. Interestingly, although Henry manufactured his own steel, and it was very high quality, he continued to call it "London Spring Steel" for marketing purposes. It is also interesting to note that, while sawmaking technology was first developed in France and England, at one time the best-selling saws in London were not Spear and Jackson or other British brand, but Disston.

Disston saws, along with all the top-quality saws of the day, had three features which made them special: 1. High-quality high-carbon steel; 2. Hammer tensioning to prevent warping/binding as the sawblade heated. 3. Taper grinding to prevent binding and reduce friction.

Steel quality is easier to achieve now than in Henry's day. The Swedes make great steel and sell it in rolls.

Hammer tensioning is not difficult to achieve.

Taper grinding in 3 axis is another kettle of fish. I have spoken with every major modern saw manufacturer in the world on the subject, and had them make measurements of an actual No. 12, and learned that taper grinding to the level of quality Disston and other top-quality manufacturers of the day achieved is not impossible to achieve nowadays, but very expensive requiring a large capital investment in machinery and training.

There is a Swedish handsaw maker that had a line on some of Sandvik's old grinding equipment, and could have done the job for a minimum order of 10,000 saws. I could not handle that. A couple of Japanese saw manufacturers would have done it for double the order volume.

If someone tells you that they are taper-grinding their saws, be sure to mike one first. Probably just a single axis grind, maybe two. 3 axis with a curved taper is highly unlikely. It makes a difference.

I occasionally have custom handsaws made in Japan (Japanese-style) of hand-forged HC steel, hammer tensioned and taper-ground (scraped), and know it is possible for a highly-skilled craftsman to make an excellent saw in small quantities nowadays, but not for less than $600. An absolute dream to use!

Don't confuse backsaws with panel saws like the No.12. Lots of people make pretty backsaws nowadays, but backsaws are not subject to the same stresses and heat differential problems as panel saws. Therefore they perform well without being taperground, or hammer tensioned. Pete Taran is a rock star IMO.

My point is that a pre-1950's Disston D-8 or No.12 in good shape is extremely worthwhile, incredibly usable, and still relatively affordable. Millions were made, and many still survive.

A few other high-quality manufacturers were Bishop (one of my favorites), Jackson (bought by Disston), Simonds, EC Atkins, Sandvik, Harvey Peace.

Two cents, and worth every penny paid.

[Patrick Chase]

Don't confuse backsaws with panel saws like the No.12. Lots of people make pretty backsaws nowadays, but backsaws are not subject to the same stresses and heat differential problems as panel saws. Therefore they perform well without being taperground, or hammer tensioned. Pete Taran is a rock star IMO.

I've recently acquired a pair of D-12s from Pete. As you say they're amazing saws, and Pete is terrific to deal with and sent them perfectly tuned and ready to go. The cost is almost as high as one of Mark Harrell's "new" D-8s, but IMO a Disston in good condition is actually the better saw.

[Noah Magnuson]

I've recently acquired a pair of D-12s from Pete. As you say they're amazing saws, and Pete is terrific to deal with and sent them perfectly tuned and ready to go. The cost is almost as high as one of Mark Harrell's "new" D-8s, but IMO a Disston in good condition is actually the better saw.
I have several 12s, and wouldn't mind trying one of Marks D-8s to compare. I think you would be hard pressed to say an old one is "better" without a side-by-side though as his aren't really D-8s and they have all the features of the best old saws. Given the taper grind and the 1095 steel, it could very well perform as good as the best of the Disstons and perhaps better. At some point though, it really can just depend on how you "feel" while using it and a nice old saw feels pretty special.

Also, no nib, so really how does it even saw? ;)