Rikon vs Minimax Bandsaw?

[Terry Thillemann]

I spent about $13k on woodworking tools two years ago (SawStop / Festool) in order to build my own kitchen/dining room cabinets, shop cabinets, bathroom vanity, bookcases, etc. My job was very demanding during this timeframe and the projects took a backseat. I’m finally going to have some time for these projects and am considering a bandsaw to resaw 8/4 hardwood for the cabinet doors and such.

A friend recommended the Rikon 14” Professional bandsaw; however, I see so many recommendations for Minimax on the forum I can’t help but wonder if I should buy one of them instead or Laguna, Hammer/Felder?

I’d rather not add another $3k to my fleet which will not be used often but I do prefer quality tools for the times I do use them. I could see myself spending $2k and perhaps more if there were really a huge difference in tool. I will not sell my tools after my projects are complete even if I'm only doing various projects but have no real understanding at this time how much of a saw I will need in the future and if it is worth buying a more expensive tool and never buying again? What would you recommend? What kind of projects are more suitable for a higher end saw? BTW, my basement is only 84 or so inches tall.

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi Terry,
I own a Rikon bandsaw, though not the one you are asking about. I like it. But comparing a Rikon tool to a Minimax is like comparing a Hyundai to a BMW. Both of them will take you to work. But you it sounds like already bought a fleet of BMW's, and I suspect you aren't gonna enjoy driving the Hyundai nearly as much.

Be sure to post some pics when you get the cabinets done!
Fred

[Nick Decker]

My question would be how wide are these 8/4 boards you need to resaw? I have the saw your friend recommended. For hardwood, it'll work fine to resaw 8/4 lumber, up to about 8-10" wide. Wider than that, I'd look to a larger saw.

[Chris Fournier]

Resawing 8/4 to make doors is not a great idea as you'll end up dealing with drying related movement in the resulting pieces. If you have to you have to but 4/4 stock would be a wiser starting point. You could get by without the Rikon or the MM if you went this route. Of course the Rikon would be plenty of saw for breaking out your lumber in 4/4. I resawed wood for guitars for years on a Delta 14" saw with a 1 hp motor. It got the job done with a good blade and a sure touch.

[Jacob Mac]

If I didn't have to, I wouldn't resaw 8/4 for doors, unless I was cutting veneer. Otherwise, I would just get 4/4.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with the statement that while they are both band saws, they are not comparable machines. The Rikon is great for it's size and capabilities. The larger, much heavier and much more powerful Euro band saws are a different animal. They are totally worth it, IMHO, but that's for what I use mine for. If you predominately want to do mostly "scroll" oriented band saw cutting with narrower blades (1/4" and smaller), then the Rikon may be the better choice for you. If you want to do heavier cutting, including re-sawing tall and/or very dense materials with some level of frequency, then the Euro type machine is the better choice. The smaller Euro machines (typically 16") are usable for both, but do require additional tracking setup when you want to run narrow blades because they typically have flat tires where wider blades are run with the teeth just off the edge of the wheels. Euro guides are also tricky to adjust when you get to truly narrow blades, so having alternative guides is a good idea for that...cool blocks, for example.

I personally own an MM16 (2003 vintage with "only" 12" re-saw height) and it covers all my needs. Only rarely have I wished for a smaller machine for detail work and if I ever get around to it, I have a salvaged HF 14" saw buried in the back of our garage bay that I plan on restoring for just scroll work, but that's seeming more and more unlikely as I'm adding CNC to the shop which can do that work, too.

[Prashun Patel]

Don’t buy any bandsaw yet.
Don’t resaw 8/4 for cabinet doors if your heart isn’t in it.

Buy stock closer to your desired dimensions. You'll have better stability.

For the doors that will be flat-panel, consider using veneered plywood. It will save you a ton of work, and will be the most consistent and stable.

Instead of a bandsaw, consider buying a great HVLP system so you can give your cabinets a professional dye and finish job.

[Terry Thillemann]

I've never resaw anything yet, this is my first cabinet project. My local hardwood supplier has boards as thick as 12/4. It seems like the thicker I go, the cheaper the price is which is why I'm considering a bandsaw as over time on various projects the saw should start to pay for itself? My supplier does charge a 25% upcharge for boards wider than 10-11".

[Terry Thillemann]

I will need to cut veneer to edge band veneered plywood for various cabinets. Thicker wood is cheaper per board foot and I don't mind taking my time to cut the wood thus the thought to resaw but perhaps it's not practical to get 2 boards from 8/4 after cutting, drying, planning, and warping.

[Terry Thillemann]

Why would someone want to resaw .. is it just for book matched faces? Isn't it more cost effective to buy thicker stock and resaw? Would 10/4 or 12/4 be better for book matched faces?

[Terry Thillemann]

I'll do some scroll work in the future but mostly I imagine to start using it to resaw thicker wood since it's cheaper and it seems that over time the saw will begin to pay for itself? I don't plan to do woodworking everyday but I'm certain I'll do various projects for the rest of my life, especially if I sell my home and move someday, and I'd like to make nice gifts for he family which would be of hardwood.

[Prashun Patel]

I used to think it was cheaper to resaw, until I realized the work involved. The resawn boards require additional jointing and stabilization. And your yield won't be as high as you nominally compute.

You won't need to cut veneer to edge band the plywood. I'm suggesting buying 1/4" veneered plywood, which will be likely on a stable mdf core. You then build a frame just as you would for your solid panel. With a veneered panel like this, you can even glue it into the grooves in the frame, which makes for an even more stable, strong door. For solid, you have to float the panel.

The only downside to doing veneered door panels is that they cannot have a raised panel profile, because the edge is usually (desired to be) completely concealed in the frame.

The thicker you go in starting, solid material: the more stress surprises you get as you resaw, the less selection you get, the less chance you have that the interior has been dried through and through with consistency.

Your solid panels CAN be made from any kind of wood, but you'll reduce your chances for warp and undue expansion/contraction by using as close to quarter sawn material as possible. The wider your starting material, the less chance you have of achieving this. It is also easier to match quarter or riftsawn grain. If I had to do this with solid wood, I'd be looking for 4/4, 3/4 riftsawn to quartersawn boards. Around my parts, that usually means dealing with things in the 6-9" range.

[Terry Thillemann]

I like wood working and my heart is into it, I just work a lot at the moment so haven't had time.

The cabinets will be made of veneered plywood but the doors will need to be hardwood with routered design, etc.

I have a $500 Devilbliss spray gun from a friend who sold his cabinet shop so I've got that covered! :)

[Terry Thillemann]

Thanks for the wisdom! I'd not considered the boards wouldn't finish the same as they appear beforehand.

It seems the veneered plywood would work for Shaker style doors but raised panels, which is what we were considering, would not work well. It seems Shaker style would be more cost effective only requiring the border to be hardwood, thanks for the tip.

My local lumber mill has most of their stock either rough sawn or skip planed. Does this mean I should find another source who has quartersawn boards?

FYI - They have planers, straight line rip saws, and wide belt sanders. Per board foot, they'll plane 2 sides for .15 more and straight line rip 1 edge for .15 more. They'll also wide belt sand with 80 grit for $2.50 per minute and resaw up to 8" wide for .50 per square foot. Is it worth having them do these for me? I have a new Dewalt DW735X planer and used 6" Ridgid Jointer/Planer.

http://www.kmhardwoods.com/

[Mike Cutler]

Terry

I am going to go against the grain here.
I personally would rather resaw an 8/4,12/4,16/4,etc board, than sift through all of the 4/4 to find boards that having matching grain and tone. I find that resawing lumber gives me more control over the total finished project.
For a homeowner, DIY'r, it's not an issue. I'm not a time schedule with customer deliverables. Resawing is just a step in material prep for me. I enjoy it also.

As for the saw question;
I like MiniMax a lot. They have really nice machines, with great fit and finish. If you can swing it, I don't think you would regret it 10-15 years down the line. However, I own a 2005 Rikon 10-340 that is specifically setup for only resawing lumber. It never does anything else. I can resaw on that machine quite well, generally holding deviations in thickness for a given board to between a 32nd and a 64th.Most of which comes from changing hand positions to feed the material. Definitely not finish ready by any means, but one or two passes through the drum sander and all is good.
I haven't seen, or used any other Rikons than my own, but I've been happy with it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Where I live, thicker material costs more per board foot, making resawing more expensive than purchasing the correct thickness rough stock.

Now, I do resaw when I need to, book matching, veneer making, or breaking down large reclaimed timbers.

If I was going to buy a new larger band saw I would buy the Felder FB510 first, as it's a good machine with excellent local support.

An Italian saw would be my second choice, their support isn't as good where I live..........Rod.

[Dan Hahr]

Yeah....I've never heard of thicker boards being cheaper per board foot. Maybe rough cut 8/4 a bit cheaper than S4S 4/4, but 10/4 or 12/4 is always at a premium price. I do love book-matching panels for doors, but if I had someone that would guarantee the wood was acclimated and stable and would resaw it for that kind of price, I'd let them have at it. For a room full of cabinets, you would drive yourself crazy trying to book-match all the doors. You can do quite well slip-matching if you choose the grain carefully. When you do need one panel to look good, spend some extra time book-matching just the one.
Dan

[Jim Becker]

Cost aside, there are often good reasons to start with thicker boards for certain projects. Book matching, already mentioned in this thread, is just one reason. It's also a way to carefully insure color/grain match on projects that are "sensitive" to that as a design element and also sometimes permits "one board" projects where rift grain at the edge is carved off at full thickness for legs and what's left is re-sawn for panels and other components for a beautifully matched table, etc. This is obviously a subjective thing that can be very personal and very much related to a specific project. There is no "wrong way" here.

[Peter Kelly]

Resawing also aside, bandsaws are great for ripping, tapered cuts, tenoning, etc. A good bandsaw is far safer for many types cuts than a tablesaw.

Getting an MM16 down into a basement could be pretty tricky though..

[Matthew Hills]

I've never resaw anything yet, this is my first cabinet project. My local hardwood supplier has boards as thick as 12/4. It seems like the thicker I go, the cheaper the price is which is why I'm considering a bandsaw as over time on various projects the saw should start to pay for itself? My supplier does charge a 25% upcharge for boards wider than 10-11".

Are you sure the thicker boards are cheaper?
A "board-foot" is a measurement of volume and not surface area. A 12"x12"x1" board is 1 board-foot; a 12"x12"x2" board is 2 board-feet.

I took a quick look at the KM website linked above. Their pricing is about half of my local pricing, but the trend for thickness looks similar:

E.g., For Cherry (Select & Better):
4/4in: 3.42/bf
8/4in: 4.95/bf

Your yield after resawing will depend on how much movement you get after the resaw.

I'd agree with others that the main benefit of resawing is matching grain/color.

Matt