Reclaimed dining table with dowels?

[Taylor Shiver]

Good morning everyone,

I will be starting a new dining table out of reclaimed heart pine soon for my home and would like to not use a breadboard end. I know the reason for using breadboards, but I just don't care for the look.

If I were to use a dowel jig and use dowels during the glue up, would this essentially stop possible cupping, etc. in the future like a breadboard would?

Any suggestions on a good dowel jig to use? :D

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Taylor, a breadboard end is a design element, it's not something that is required to prevent table top cupping.

Only you can decide if you want that design element in your table.

If your material is properly dried, you can edge joint, glue it up and not need dowels, biscuits, dominos, splines or breadboard ends.

One technique is to alternate boards so that growth rings are alternated.

Of course the best plan is to have your wood at the proper humidity level for where it will be finally used.

Regards, Rod.

[Steve Jenkins]

I agree breadboard ends are not needed except as a design element. Even alternating grain is not necessary. I quit doing that years ago when the quality of lumber started going down. I pick the best face to be up. During the build phase don’t leave machined boards laying flat unless you cover them ( on edge is ok). Changes in humidity will cause them to warp or cup. Once glued up again either cover it flat or set on edge to allow air circulation. Finish both faces equally and you shouldn’t have any problems.

[Taylor Shiver]

Thanks!

How long should I leave it in the house for before working with the wood so that it can adjust to the humidity?

[Prashun Patel]

You need dowels even less than you need breadboard ends. The dowels won't prevent cupping and on thick, long edges, nor will they add anything to the strength of the joint. They may assist in alignment, but if you don't need that help, they're extraneous.

A breadboard (properly designed) can help the ends stay flat.

However, if your base is properly designed, it too can help keep the table flat. If your base does not have an apron (as in a trestle table) you can add battens to assist. But these need to be properly sized.

[Philipp Jaindl]

A Solid wood top is never gonna stay truely flat, personally id go with a sliding dovetailed cleats? (i dont know the proper english term for it) or if you have the means to do it you can add Aluminum or Steel rods/tubes that you drill in and thus hide inside the finished top, though thats probably overkill.

Breadboard ends only really help the ends to stay flat not the middle depending on how large the table is gonna be.

I'd stick with the sliding dovetails cleats, just make damn sure the Grain is at a 90° angle to the table top otherwise its gonna shrink and not do a thing to keep the top stable.

Edit: oh and whatever you do dont glue it in, same goes for Breadboard ends you never wanna glue them in fully.

[Michelle Rich]

My dining table was made over 30 yrs ago..24x72 edge glued top and attached to apron so that it can expand and contract. It is as perfect today as it was the day I finished it. No dowels, no breadboard ends.

[Taylor Shiver]

This is good to know. How did you attach the top to the apron?

I guess I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around a bunch of wood glue being enough to hold the 36 x 72 table top together.

[Taylor Shiver]

This is interesting. What do you use to cut these?

[Steve Jenkins]

This is good to know. How did you attach the top to the apron?

I guess I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around a bunch of wood glue being enough to hold the 36 x 72 table top together.

I’ve been making tables and other panels for nearly 40 years 36 of them as a business. Never used any dowels, biscuits etc. a good long grain glue joint will be stronger than the surrounding wood. Titebond had always been my go to glue

[Wayne Lomman]

Breadboard ends are, as others have said, a style element and nothing else. Edge gluing with a good quality glue is definitely strong enough. dowels, finger joints, biscuits etc can be used for alignment, but if you dress your timber straight, you don't even need these. Like Steve, I have done this for decades and the evidence that butt joints work is still there to see all over Australia. Michelle has been looking at her table for 30 years and is still happy. Cheers

[Lee Schierer]

Thanks!

How long should I leave it in the house for before working with the wood so that it can adjust to the humidity?

It depends...on the species and conditions before and after. Most people recommend at least 2 weeks in your shop. Your best bet is to get a decent moisture meter and check the moisture levels. Then saw of 2-3 inches off the end of a board and check the center to see if it matches the surface. Don't use the wood until it does. I buy my wood from a local place with a kiln. They dry to 6-7% and I have found that the wood stays at those levels in my shop which is climate controlled year round. I just checked some poplar that I have had for at least a year and my meter says its at 6%.

[Mike Henderson]

This is good to know. How did you attach the top to the apron?

I guess I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around a bunch of wood glue being enough to hold the 36 x 72 table top together.

I like the figure 8 attachments (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XZ3N4ZG/ref=asc_df_B06XZ3N4ZG5347711/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B06XZ3N4ZG&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198071016363&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1331889718962824803&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031596&hvtargid=pla-350798394943) to attach a top to the apron but there are other good ways that allow things to move while still keeping the top flat.

A good glue joint is stronger than the wood. If you take two pieces of wood and prepare the glue faces properly, then glue them and let the glue set properly, then try to break the joint, you'll see that the wood breaks - the glue does not let go. When gluing boards together, edge-to-edge, you do not need anything between the boards, such as dowels, biscuits, dominos, or anything else beside glue.

When you do the glue up you can use cauls to make sure the boards are aligned properly.

Mike

[The picture here (https://www.woodcraft.com/products/tabletop-fasteners-downloadable-technique?gclid=Cj0KCQiA-qDTBRD-ARIsAJ_10yKWCdKJUOsxMxH4mF7ruhTr96LNlNDx6iCpVu0vh_ j22GjJxUn92XAaAtKDEALw_wcB)shows some of the ways to attach a table top to the aprons.]

[Phil Mueller]

Are you referring to the table top fastener options? If so, the figure 8 fasteners are attached to the apron by making a recess with a forstner bit. The “Z” clips go into a grove in the apron...can be just a saw kerf, or made with a biscuit joiner. The wooden buttons also go into a grove, albeit larger, cut on a router table, or a few passes on a table saw.

The grooves or slots for the Z clips and button fasteners should be made prior to glue up.

With the Z clips or the buttons, you leave a small amount of gap in the groove to allow for movement. There are a number of videos online that show how to go about using these and the figure 8 fasteners.