A modern Shooting plane

[Jerry Palmer]

just made a couple of shooting boards, real simple ones and part of the reason I needed to make a couple, one for 90s and one for 45s. Figure these are simple and quick enough that if I need other special angles for something, I can knock another out in quick order.

Anyway, I discovered that for me it is easier to pull the plane over the board and workpiece than to push it. Problem with that is that my traditional bench planes, while doing a fine job, are not overly comfortable in use when pulling them while maintaining proper pressure. Truthfully, part of the palm of my right hand is sore as he77 today. Didn't raise a blister, but it is quite tender.

So, I've talked myself into a new, new plane. I'd though about another Knight, but I'm a bit concerned over a lack of weight and the loss of inertia one might have to suffer. Also thinking about an LV LA Smoother. My only other new plane is the LV Large Shoulder Plane and I've been extremely happy with that one.

Has anyone used an LV LA Smoother for shooting, and have they been happy with the results?

[Tony Sade]

Derek Cohen, who I think also posts on this board, posted this message today in a thread about the (possible) advantages of a ramped shooting board. He said:

"The LV LA Jack is tailor-made for shooting. Unlike my Stanley #62 or the LN LA Jack plane, this plane has in-built finger grips (circular depressions on the sides of the body) for use so that it may be held securely on its side. You do not push with the tote. If the Stanley and LN #62 are both a #5-size, the LV LA Jack is a #5-1/2 size. This means that it is larger and heavier. It carries significantly more momentum into the cut. Push it forward and along the runway fence, and it is like a railway train on tracks."

Regards from Perth

Derek

FWIW,

[Don Martindale]

How about the LN #9. It is specifically designed for shooting. Personally, I just use a 5-1/2, & find it works fine, but if you are getting a sore hand, the #9 has a handle on the top, so if you pull, it may be ideal for you...don

[Dan Racette]

I have the LA jack from lee valley, and it is comfortable to shoot with, however I have not done an "extended" session with it.

The Jim Kingshott book, making and modifying woodworking tools has all of the working drawings for the old stanley #51 "chute" plane. If you have it in you to do the metal work, it looks to me like a wonderful tool. You could also try and pick up and old stanley 51.

And they sell it at craftsmen studio. I can pm you a link. nice skew on the blade.

d

[Gary Herrmann]

Jerry, fyi, the LA smoother also has the same finger grips as the Jack. I have the BU smoother, which isn't made for shooting. If the LA smoother shoots as well as the BU smoother, uh, smooths, it should be a very good choice.

[Dan Clermont in Burnaby]

Like Don mentioned up above my favourite shooting plane is the LN 5.5. Makes a great smoother and jointer as well. This plane weighs 7 pounds which makes it a breeze to cut end grain even if it is a Bevel down design

Cheers
Dan Clermont

[Roy Wall]

Like Don mentioned up above my favourite shooting plane is the LN 5.5. Makes a great smoother and jointer as well. This plane weighs 7 pounds which makes it a breeze to cut end grain even if it is a Bevel down design

Cheers
Dan Clermont

I'm another LN 5.5 shooter.........

[Pam Niedermayer]

As far as commercially available shooting planes, I like the HNT Gordon trying plane a lot ( http://www.hntgordon.com.au/prodcattry.htm ), which you can purchase at Mik International ( http://www.mik.com.au/ ), about $150 USD. I also like Japanese planes a lot, but since I make the dai and buy only the iron, they're hardly commercially available.

Also, many regular metal planes can be used satisfactorily, such as the LN/LV LA jacks, as well as shorter "bench" planes.

Pam

[Jerry Palmer]

Wow, lots of options. Thanks everyone.

[Steve Wargo]

I vote LN #9 for shooting. I use mine a lot, and it is a sound tool.

[Michael Perata]

I vote LN #9 for shooting.
Another vote here.

[John Tonks]

The Jim Kingshott book, making and modifying woodworking tools has all of the working drawings for the old stanley #51 "chute" plane. If you have it in you to do the metal work, it looks to me like a wonderful tool.

d

Hi everyone

I am am new to this site and thought I would like to share some pictures of my interpretation of the Kingshott #51.

My plane's design was inspired by the Kingshott book but that is where the similarity ends.

The plane was made from a piece of 100mm X 50mm tapered flange steel channel. The channel web and flanges where flattened using (in order of use) an angle grinder, coarse file , mill file, hand scraping (to get a dead flat sole) then linishing on emery cloth on a glass plate to remove the scraper marks.

The frog was cut out of an old record 4 1/2 and attached to the body by rivetting the part of the original plane casting that the frog attaches to to the body.

As I also have a liking of infill planes, I decided to fill up the channel with a nice piece of Huon Pine (an extremely slow growing pine native to Tasmania).

The infill is attached by screws which thread into tapping bars that where also rivetted on to the plane base.

I use the plane on a ramped shooting board based on Jeff Gorman's design (http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/rampedboard/rampindex.htm) and i am really pleased with its performance on end grain up to 12mm thick. After that it does chatter a bit but I have plans to for a 5mm thick blade which hopefully will cure this.

I made the plane entirely by hand, the only power tool being the angle grinder.

Regards from Tasmania, Australia

John

[Richard Gillespie]

John Tonks;

Welcome to Sawmill Creek and I must say WOW, that's one nice hand made plane! I'll bet it works every bit as good as it looks.

Rick

[Hank Knight]

Hi everyone

I am am new to this site and thought I would like to share some pictures of my interpretation of the Kingshott #51.



John,welcome to the Creek.
Your shooting plane is a very impressive piece of work. Thank you for posting it.

[Jim Dunn]

John, Welcome to the Creek and thank you for the link to Mr. Gorman's web page. Lots of useful information there. There is a fellow on the nutron burners page, Highland House is his web page, who makes shooting boards too. You might take a look.

Jim

[Mike Wenzloff]

First for Jerry. I use at times a LV LA smoother for my shooting board. Usually I use a LN 9, but on little work I've been known the use 140s for the skew.

Personally, of those, I think the LN 9 would be the most comfortable pulling it. At least if one makes a hot dog for it.

If it were to be pushed, I would add the vote for the LV LA Jack. But, maybe even at that it could be better for pulling. If it was modified.

In any case, in pulling you may have a tendency to twist the plane, so heavy may be best.

For John, Welcome!

Take care, Mike

[Pam Niedermayer]

John, that plane is one nice piece of work. I'm impressed.

Pam

[Alan Turner]

John, welcome to SMC. That is a very impressive piece of work, both as to the design and the execution.

[Steve knight]

just made a couple of shooting boards, real simple ones and part of the reason I needed to make a couple, one for 90s and one for 45s. Figure these are simple and quick enough that if I need other special angles for something, I can knock another out in quick order.

Anyway, I discovered that for me it is easier to pull the plane over the board and workpiece than to push it. Problem with that is that my traditional bench planes, while doing a fine job, are not overly comfortable in use when pulling them while maintaining proper pressure. Truthfully, part of the palm of my right hand is sore as he77 today. Didn't raise a blister, but it is quite tender.

So, I've talked myself into a new, new plane. I'd though about another Knight, but I'm a bit concerned over a lack of weight and the loss of inertia one might have to suffer. Also thinking about an LV LA Smoother. My only other new plane is the LV Large Shoulder Plane and I've been extremely happy with that one.

Has anyone used an LV LA Smoother for shooting, and have they been happy with the results?
how heavy do you want the plane? I cna make them weigh more then a metal plane. and with ipe or vera on the sides it will slide far better too.

[Steve knight]

Hi everyone

I am am new to this site and thought I would like to share some pictures of my interpretation of the Kingshott #51.

My plane's design was inspired by the Kingshott book but that is where the similarity ends.

The plane was made from a piece of 100mm X 50mm tapered flange steel channel. The channel web and flanges where flattened using (in order of use) an angle grinder, coarse file , mill file, hand scraping (to get a dead flat sole) then linishing on emery cloth on a glass plate to remove the scraper marks.

The frog was cut out of an old record 4 1/2 and attached to the body by rivetting the part of the original plane casting that the frog attaches to to the body.

As I also have a liking of infill planes, I decided to fill up the channel with a nice piece of Huon Pine (an extremely slow growing pine native to Tasmania).

The infill is attached by screws which thread into tapping bars that where also rivetted on to the plane base.

I use the plane on a ramped shooting board based on Jeff Gorman's design (http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/rampedboard/rampindex.htm) and i am really pleased with its performance on end grain up to 12mm thick. After that it does chatter a bit but I have plans to for a 5mm thick blade which hopefully will cure this.

I made the plane entirely by hand, the only power tool being the angle grinder.

Regards from Tasmania, Australia

John
this is a cool plane a bit hard on the eyes though (G) it's like it is one of those drawings that look different when you look at them at different angles (G) if it is chattering I would look at the bedding of the iron first. it sounds like there is a gap some where.

[Matthew Dworman]

I use the LN 62 Low angle jack very often as a shooting plane. Sometimes I use my #8, and for small cockbeads and trim, I even use a LA block plane. When using the 62 or the 8, I never hold it by the tote or knob, but always by the side. LN recently came out with the old Stanley "Hot Dog" for the #9 :
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/images/hotdog.jpg

which I suppose you could easily mount to any Bedrock style plane (i.e. something with flat sides).
I don't have a problem with gripping the side of my planes, but the only thing that "Irks" me about it is that if I don't wipe down the planes with oil right after using it, I will see some rust in the form of finger prints the next day.... the hot dog might answer that problem though...
but with regard to function, the low angle of the 62 slices through end grain beautifully.
http://home.comcast.net/~mdworman/images/jig3.jpg
It has plenty enough mass for most applications, and for those that express some resistance, nothing gets in the way of the 10 pound #8!

[Jerry Palmer]

Steve,
After much consternation and review of the options, as well as the prices (that LN #9 was mighty tempting, but wow, that is one hunk of change) I decided to get the LV LA Smoother with the optional HA blade. It works well on the shooting board (and I've found that I can push it rather than pulling as I had been more comfortable with using my Stanleys) and its greater length makes it a nice followup to my Knight smoother. You do tempt me and when the tool account gets replenished after having to "lend" some of it to my son, I may have to pay you a visit.

[John Tonks]

this is a cool plane a bit hard on the eyes though (G) it's like it is one of those drawings that look different when you look at them at different angles (G) if it is chattering I would look at the bedding of the iron first. it sounds like there is a gap some where.

Thanks for the advice Steve, I probably ought to have thought of that myself but I think tunnel vision stopped me from thinking of it as the original intention was always to fit a thick blade. Sounds like an evening with bearing blue and a scraper are in order.

Regards

John

[Steve knight]

Thanks for the advice Steve, I probably ought to have thought of that myself but I think tunnel vision stopped me from thinking of it as the original intention was always to fit a thick blade. Sounds like an evening with bearing blue and a scraper are in order.

Regards

John
no problem I have only encountered the problem a few hundred times (G) myself on my planes it's always the wedge not tight on one side.

[Tim Farrell]

Novice questoin - can someone please explain the concept of shooting or perhaps point to another thread where this has been previously discussed?

[Jerry Palmer]

Quite simply, shooting a workpiece is obtaining a straight and flat (in all three dimensions) end to a board at a predesignated angle. Most generally used for common angles such as 45 and 90 degrees, but actually at any angle designated.

The plane is guide through the cut and held at the required angles, both horizontally and vertically by a construct built to that purpose. It is important that the shoulder(s) of the plane be perpendicular to the sole and that the blade be set to take off an equal amount of wood across its width. The should of the plane is guided by the base of the shooting board while the sole is kept properly oriented by the small amount of surface on the outside of the blade. This also keeps the blade from sheering way the material of the shooting board. The fence part of the shooting board is neccesarily set to the exact angle needed in reference to the portion of the shooting board guideing the sole of the plane.

The shooting board (or shoot board as sometimes called) cleans up the endgrain cut left by the saw as well as adjusting the angle for perfectly (theoretically perfect, anyway) fitted joints.

Wow, this is tough to do with just words.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Novice questoin - can someone please explain the concept of shooting or perhaps point to another thread where this has been previously discussed?
Hi Tim,

A picture or two may help add to Jerry's words...

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/shootboards_0007.jpg

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/temp/shootboards_0008.jpg

The first picture is squaring a side to the end of the board, the second is the result.

Take care, Mike

[Dan Racette]

first you load then you pull the trig...oops wrong forum :p

I think the pictures are worth a lot of words. For Tim's novice question, I too had to ask that a while back, and it was not until it was demonstrated to me, and I got a hold of a copy of David Charlesworth's precision shooting simplified that it really sunk in. But, I can be very dense sometimes.

Working with a shooting board to me is like knowing a black secret of woodworking. I don't know why, that's just how I feel when I do it!

d

[Geoff Irvine]

Novice questoin - can someone please explain the concept of shooting or perhaps point to another thread where this has been previously discussed?
Tim try looking at http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/shuteingboards/shuteingindex.htm
As a bit of brain garbage it would seem the name derives from chute.

[Jerry Palmer]

Tim try looking at http://www.amgron.clara.net/planingpoints/shuteingboards/shuteingindex.htm
As a bit of brain garbage it would seem the name derives from chute.

Yep and we colonists have a horrible habit of misspelling stuff. That is a great site with lots of really good information.