Goofy fluorescent light fixtures

[Wade Lippman]

I bought a 5 year old house 6 years ago. There are three identical light fixtures in the walk-in closet, pantry, and utility room. All three are goofy, from the day we moved in. They will work fine for 8 months, and then work poorly for six months. When they work poorly, they will either take 30 seconds to turn on, or require being turned on and off multiple time. Then they will work fine for 8 months, before going bad again. I have tried replacing bulbs, but it doesn't matter.

I finally found a bright LED fixture that will fit in the 6" available. Any way to fix them, or should I just go ahead and replace them?

I half think the house is haunted. My raised bed garden it built with 3.5" torx head screws. One day two of the screws were out 2". That can't happen naturally, and what kind of vandal would partially remove screws? Another time a mooring shackle in 17' of water was unfastened. Who would go to the trouble?

[Mike Ontko]

Wade,

You're not anywhere in or near the town of Amityville, are you? ;)

The house I'm in now was remodeled back in 2011 by the previous owners and two of the under-cabinet lights are doing something similar to your three fluorescent fixtures. I think it's a ballast related issue, and have planned to just replace those two at some point.

[John K Jordan]

Any way to fix them, or should I just go ahead and replace them?


One thing that can go wrong is simply poor conductivity at the socket. Cleaning with very fine sand paper can help for a while. What I do is put a dab of dielectric grease on electrical contacts which keeps the humidity and oxygen away. This worked for some fluorescent fixtures in my barn. If the fixtures have separate starters they can go bad too, as can the ballasts. But if they are T12 or even T8, I'd probably just ditch them and if I needed more lights get new LED or T5 fixtures.

JKJ

[Alan Caro]

Wade Lippman,

I've lived in a lot of places- over 20, having a wide range of construction ages. The oldest place was built in 1347, next was 1695, quite a few from 1850 to 1950 and the newest, I suppose was about 1990.

The most haunted is not as one would expect the 14th Century one, but is the current house from 1968. The haunting is as odd as your poultergeisted Torx fittings. The first: In the 4th bedroom which is used for painting, I have had three wall clocks fail in two years, the last failure was only a week ago. True, these were not Tomkins longcases, but not the absolute bottom end either $25-50. The amazing feature is that if I took the clocks off the wall, they would run. Put them back = stop.

I looked at all kinds of possibilities- were the hands slightly bent and rubbing when passing the others in combination with the wall being out of true, was the hanger shorting the cheap quartz movement- but no answers so far.

Over the years, I always used mechanical clocks and watches and the small English cabinet clock on the mantel is 1891 and runs perfectly.

The other haunting is also fluorescent. The Master Suite bathroom has a 4' fluorescent fixture and for awhile I had a bedroom TV plugged into the same circuit. However, sometimes, turning OFF the bathroom fluorescent would cause the television to off and restart. If I plugged the TV into another circuit, it wasn't affected. I tried a computer monitor on that circuit and that too would go off and restart.

My idea about the fluorescent poltergeist is a dodgy ballast. And I think this may be humidity related. When it's very dry I think the very high ballast voltage is discharged across the poles and this may make a high voltage, low amperage surge to the circuit. < That's a wild guess. Others have had this problem:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/385710-33-monitor-blinks-turning-lights

That thread had 53 replies.

Any ideas and clock and fluorescent exorcism ideas gratefully received.

Alan

[Wade Lippman]

My idea about the fluorescent poltergeist is a dodgy ballast. And I think this may be humidity related. When it's very dry I think the very high ballast voltage is discharged across the poles and this may make a high voltage, low amperage surge to the circuit. < That's a wild guess. Others have had this problem:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/385710-33-monitor-blinks-turning-lights
Alan

I haven't kept track of it, but I had some sense it might be seasonal. And the humidity varies by season, so that might be it. The LED fixtures in my shop don't seem to have this problem.

[Jim Becker]

I replaced the small round CFL fixtures in our master closet that were installed by an electrician when our addition was built in 2008 with some round LED fixtures from HD about a year ago. No comparison...the LEDs are far superior and were easy to mount directly to the existing boxes in the available spaces.

[Lee Schierer]

Some of those "silent" switches get flakey after a while. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't and other times the light will flicker. I recently had to replace one at my daughters house in her hallway. The light would come on most of the time, but would then blink off after a short time. It didn't do that all the time. Sometimes when you flipped a switch it wouldn't come on at all.

[Bill Bukovec]

I'd replace them with LED fixtures.

[Wade Lippman]

I haven't kept track of it, but I had some sense it might be seasonal. And the humidity varies by season, so that might be it. The LED fixtures in my shop don't seem to have this problem.

Too late to edit. I wonder why that happens.
Anyhow, my wife says they were goofy all summer and then started working when winter came. So maybe it is the humidity.

I found some reasonable LEDs and will install them as soon as the project is approved by higher ups.

[John K Jordan]

. So maybe it is the humidity.


You might try the dab of dielectric on the contacts. That will keep humidity away from where the metals touch. You can buy dielectric grease at an electrical supply place or any auto parts store - it does wonders for bulbs and connectors on vehicles. I use it on the cars, tractor, bobcat and big mowers as well as outdoor light sockets, breaker boxes, and extension cord connections for farm water tank heaters. Keeps out moisture and air.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

I bought a 5 year old house 6 years ago. There are three identical light fixtures in the walk-in closet, pantry, and utility room. All three are goofy, from the day we moved in. They will work fine for 8 months, and then work poorly for six months. When they work poorly, they will either take 30 seconds to turn on, or require being turned on and off multiple time. Then they will work fine for 8 months, before going bad again. I have tried replacing bulbs, but it doesn't matter.

I finally found a bright LED fixture that will fit in the 6" available. Any way to fix them, or should I just go ahead and replace them?

I half think the house is haunted. My raised bed garden it built with 3.5" torx head screws. One day two of the screws were out 2". That can't happen naturally, and what kind of vandal would partially remove screws? Another time a mooring shackle in 17' of water was unfastened. Who would go to the trouble?


Most likely you have a ballast issue with the lights. You need to wither replace the ballasts or just replace the fixtures with LEDs. I had the same issue with the florescent lights in the kitchen. After replacing the ballasts once in 15 years, I decided it was cheaper just to replace the fixtures and be done with it.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Over the past 25 years, lighting tech has changed so drastically. Our house was built two years ago, and I insisted on sealed LED fixtures on the wrap around porch ceiling and the builder's rep looked at me like I was an alien. He started to tell me that it would cost $50 extra per fixture and the technology is unproven, etc. There are seven fixtures, exposed to the dampness and humidity of the mid atlantic states, why would I want old fashioned corroding fixtures and jury rigged light bulbs whether CFL or LED. I even had to give the twit the manufacturer and model number of the fixtures. The builder called me a half hour later and explained that they were going with sealed led fixtures for all exterior lighting and almost all LED fixtures inside. Fixtures that do not have light bulbs to replace are a big selling point.

The builder and I briefly discussed the fact that lighting fixtures had changed so rapidly, that some made new just a couple years earlier are now obsolete and modular wiring concepts for some lighting fixtures didn't work out the way manufacturers thought. He was having a head ache replacing faulty light fixtures, particularly florescent fixtures made about 5 years earlier.

My camper had all under cabinet style florescent lighting for everything, even on the ceiling lights, and they were new 15 years ago and now I can't even find the right bulbs in stores. I have to mail order them and the fixtures go through "spells" as described by the OP. I would replace the fixtures, but those were twice as large as current fixtures and would leave hideous looking gaps and screw holes where the old fixtures were.

Allegedly, wireless electric transmission technology is here in it's barest infancy and at some point in the not too distant future, light fixtures will not even need wiring. Another apparent revolution in lighting technology is on the horizon and fixtures will change all over again.

Back around 1970 or 1971, a friend of mine was engaged to a research engineer at a research and development lab near Reading PA. He showed up one day with a small metal container with a few tiny beads inside. He would hook a battery lead to the metal container and with the other lead touch a bead, and it would glow. Called them light emitting somethings (diodes?) He said in a year or two they will be used in an electronic calculator to display numbers, in electronic watches for display, etc farther in the future, they will be used to in fixtures to light rooms and they will be in flashlights, etc. Took 40 years for the light fixtures, but what he said came true.

[John K Jordan]

...Fixtures that do not have light bulbs to replace are a big selling point.


My opinion is different based on experience. If the circuitry or LEDs fail on an integrated fixture you may have to replace the entire fixture. I purchased two porch light fixtures for my shop with integral LEDs. They were wonderful until the first one failed completely. Then a year later the second one started blinking rapidly then failed after a few more weeks. The dealer said he couldn't replace them without a receipt which I didn't save. I replaced them with standard fixtures and screwed in LED bulbs. For outside lighting at the farm I do buy integrated fixtures but they are industrial fixtures - expensive but no failures so far in 5 years (and incredibly bright). The LED itself is a patch over an inch in diameter.

The LEDs are wonderful. We played with them in the early days, even dunking a red LED in liquid nitrogen - that will let you pump so much current into it the light will blind you. When a friend was tasked with designing rugged lighting for a military project to be dropped with a parachute I suggested he consider LED lighting. This was in the early days and the colors and brightness were nothing like they are today but it sure did make for a rugged installation.

JKJ

[James Pallas]

Some of those can type fixtures have thermal breakers in them. Some also call for spacing of insulation around the can. If they get too hot they will shut down until cooled off. I believe this type were the earliest type of fixture, meaning old 1970s and earlier stuff. They were sensitive to high wattage bulbs too.
Jim

[Rod Sheridan]

It's either a bad ballast or the fixture isn't grounded.

Both will cause hard starting issues............Regards, Rod.

[Wade Lippman]

It's either a bad ballast or the fixture isn't grounded.

Both will cause hard starting issues............Regards, Rod.

Is either explanation compatible with working fine for months then working poorly for months, repeat?

[Rod Sheridan]

Is either explanation compatible with working fine for months then working poorly for months, repeat?

Yes, especially if the humidity was high...........Rod.

[Howard Evans]

Fluorescent lamps are a gas discharge device and depend onthe pressure of the mercury gas to ignight when hit by the high voltage pulsefrom the ballast… The pressure of the gas is dependent on the temperature ofthe surrounding area and is the reason that standard lamps have a problem igniting when outside in the winter..
Adding to that problem, it is impossible to make a perfect metal to glass seal where the electrodes exit the tube and over time the gas pressure will decrease causing the reliable firing point to climb to a higher temperature…
None of this takes into account the aging of the older magnetic ballasts which begin to fail and cause problems..
In my office building we have a total of 75 ea. four foot fixtures each having 4 lamps, they were installed in 1986.. Many have had new ballasts and more were failing. Added to that we were replacing several lamps each week.
I ordered 300 18 watt/48 inchT8 LED lamps from a company on eBay… Cost was about $3.50 each.. Spent several days opening each fixture, removing the ballast and minor rewiring of the fixture… That was finished up about July of last year.. We have replaced about 5 of the bulbs that failed, otherwise everybody is well pleased… Plenty of light and no flickering, slow starting, etc…..
For what it’s worth… The company shipped me 330 lamps and billed me for the 300…. So we are ahead of the game in warranty replacements…
When we put the pen to it it was cheaper to purchase the 4 lamps for a fixture than to replace 1 ballastand 2 fluorescent lamps. I got it down to 15 minutes per fixture to do the mod…..
Just useless rambling on a rainy Saturday morning :)