Moving from Pacific Northwest to East Texas - need advice

[Mitchell Garnett]

Hi,

Sometime this spring my wife and I will be moving from just north of Seattle to East Texas - probably around Longview. We're downsizing from around 3400 square feet to probably around 2000 so we're facing a lot of difficult (at least emotionally) decisions about what goes and what doesn't. Moving my workshop is an issue I just can't seem to get my head around. I'm looking for advice/suggestions from someone who has gone through this. If you have an opinion to share, please reply to this message since there are likely to be others who might be interested. But you can PM me too if you want to reply privately.

I started to type out the options I've considered though I've always come back to keeping what I have and paying the moving costs. But just thinking about options like selling, replacing or doing without brings me right back to keeping it all. Maybe I've made up my mind already and just need confirmation. Let me know if you can help.

Thanks,

Mitchell

[Michael Moscicki]

Marc Spagnuolo, aka The Wood Whisperer, recently moved from Arizona to Colorado. His process might be helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l7WbN_EmOY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIkMGeXdZ64

[Mitchell Garnett]

thanks for the link - interesting content, especially what he did to prepare for the move.

[rudy de haas]

Since Texas has fewer building restrictions than Washington it should be easy (and relatively cheap!) to put your new shop in a separate building even if the property you buy doesn't already have something appropriate. Talk to your real estate agent (or who ever is helping you look) - you will be astounded at how different the regulatory climate is and what a difference it can make to your costs in getting what you want.

Once you have a place to put your tools, the cost of moving your tools versus selling/buying becomes an issue but it depends mainly on what you have and how happy you are with them because the real (not the quoted) cost of a commercial move is more influenced by the cost of manpower than the cost of freight. i.e. the commercial quote will be based on the carrier's average cost for loading and unloading household stuff per pound - and thus over-estimate the cost of moving much heavier stuff, like a table saw. So get your quotes without the tools, then negotiate tools separately with their representative.

---
on re-reading this several hours after entering the comment I want to add a clarification: what counts is density, not just weight. Movers estimate the labor cost for loading/unloading along with container and freight costs first on a rough $/pd basis but that ballpark guess is itself based on assumptions about the volume needed per pound for household stuff. Tools tend to be much denser and so their weight pushes movers into huge cost over-estimates that they then won't want to back off on. If yours is a container move shoving a few heavy tools in at the end has little real effect on the mover's costs and so negotiating this stuff after you get the quote for everything else lets their sales person offer you a deal that benefits both sides.

[Brandon Speaks]

What type of equipment are we talking about, that could influence the recommendations quite a bit?

When I moved two years ago I did not have much big equipment which helped. I did bring my 14 inch bandsaw but I dont recall that adding anything to the cost of the move really. It did get knocked pretty well out of aliment though and took quite a bit of tinkering to get it running right, I believe that is just expected though.

My high cost item was a large gun safe which I believe weighed 800ish pounds. I think it ran me an extra $200. For me that was worth the time and hassle vs selling it and buying a new one, probably cheaper as well. I was moving about 300 miles though which is much shorter than yours so I am not sure how that will impact it.

[Jim Finn]

The last time I moved my shop was five years ago. The move was only 4 miles. I ordered a PODS, loaded all my shop equipment in it, myself, and unloaded it all alone also. PODS are only 4" off the ground so I built a ramp for that and rolled everything in an out using it. (Easy for me but I was only seventy back then).
I secured all the equipment to the inside walls with rope and it worked well. The cost of the move was pretty low here in West Texas.

[Tim Bueler]

Mitchell, I moved from just north of Seattle to Central Idaho about 3 years ago. Only 400 miles, nothing like how far you're going. I was able to pick up a 20' enclosed truck body that I mounted on a gooseneck trailer I already owned. I also had a tractor with forks that I used to load all my big machines. Using either a pallet jack or mobile base I wheeled them against the wall and tied them in using the E-track that came already mounted in the truck box. Packed in around them with smaller stuff and down the road I went. No equipment damage and the truck box is now used as a storage shed.

Assuming you don't have access to the same things I did, perhaps you could rent a box truck? Maybe have a neighbor with a tractor or forklift help you load? Or rent one? I can't imagine trying to reacquire what I already have and I felt there was really only one person who was going to transport my equipment like they owned it. We looked into PODS also but due to the extreme rural nature of our new home, and several other factors, it just didn't work for us.

For our household we used U-Pack. They bring you a semi-trailer that you load and seal (they provide the system to do that), then they transport to your new location using their regular, LTL freight network. Getting all our stuff up that high wasn't particularly easy but most things we were able to lift with our tractor so not horrible. They did provide a ramp but I don't think we ever used it. They drop the trailer off at your new home and give you a few days to get it unloaded.

Idaho, too, is much cheaper than WA. On property tax alone we pay 1/10th for over 16x the acreage with building square footage being comparable. Hopefully you'll find TX to be comparable.

[Marc Jeske]

Mitchell - FYI - here is a link to the local shopper paper for that area - http://www.peddlernet.com/

I live about 130 miles S of Longview.

Be aware this area virtually never has used machinery.. VERY hard to find even like a real 5 hp decent compressor for example.

I looked for 2 years for a local one, ended up buying new.

Check out the Clists for "Deep E TX" and "Tyler/ E TX" , not much there.

https://nacogdoches.craigslist.org/ https://easttexas.craigslist.org/

There's that Dallas option though.

You need Longview specifically ? or, are you open to the General E TX area ?

If I can help in anyway, contact me...PM sent.

Marc

[andrew whicker]

I hear Nacogdoches has a really cool airshow.

[Thomas L. Miller]

Mitchell,
I have to agree with Marc. I live in Tyler, about 40 miles west of Longview. Finding good used machinery in this neck of the woods is rare. There really aren't any woodworking machinery outlets around here except for the big box outlets. I have gone to Dallas to get stuff. I have bought most of my large stuff new. People are correct in saying it's a lot cheaper to build something here than in the Seattle area. Welcome to the deep piney woods! Feel free to contact me via PM as well.
Tom

[Marc Jeske]

There is a sawmill around there that cuts a wide variety, and relatively decent prices.

Not sure about local drying facilities though.

Here is just two examples of his stuff, he has MUCH more not shown on Clist.

https://easttexas.craigslist.org/mat/d/mineral-stained-pecan-boards/6458953205.html

https://easttexas.craigslist.org/mat/d/spalted-oak-mantel/6458972781.html



Marc

[Jim Becker]

Moving like that is both a curse and an opportunity when it comes to your shop, not just for the downsizing of the house aspect!

What I'll suggest to you is that on the opportunity side, you need to ponder if "reinventing" your shop is better than just moving it the way it is now. Finances obviously come into play with that, but setting up new with, perhaps, things you've often wanted, but didn't have the space or means at the time should be on the table. You'll be starting with a brand new space anyway. So if you've contemplated a Euro combo machine or some other different setup but never did it, this is a great time to consider. Ask yourself what you want to focus on with your woodworking going forward and how best to do that since you have to make changes anyway. If you decide to "reinvent", then sell off stuff you would be replacing before you move and just take cherished things as well as hand tools and the things you need to actually setup at the other end.

[lowell holmes]

Are you ready for the change in culture? :)

[Ted Derryberry]

I'm expecting to face this within a few years, about 900 miles. Right now my plan is to get one of the UPack semi-trailer deals, and probably have to rent a forklift to load it and unload it. I'm not looking forward to it, moving the shop I mean. I'm more than ready to get out of this area otherwise.

[David Helm]

Are you ready for the change in culture? :)

The change in culture will be dramatic. My daughter, who grew up in Bellingham, moved to Texas with her husband eleven years ago and
still seriously misses the Northwest and its culture. When I go to visit I am constantly amazed at what I see there. My wife and I like to
go walking in the morning, regardless of temperature. At 104 degrees people look at us really funny. Surprisingly few people seem to ever go outside.

[Dave Cav]

Are you ready for the change in culture? :)

More like moving to a different planet.

I was raised in Houston, and after the Navy and some other fooling around I moved to Washington in 1980. We lived in rural Snohomish County for 30 years. Two years ago we decided to move somewhere drier and cheaper and ended up in northern Utah, where my wife has relatives. (We considered the Texas Hill Country but the wealthy baby boomer retirees have REALLY driven the prices up there.) We went from 7.5 acres in the woods to .95 acres in town. The first thing I did was have a shop built, then spent the first summer of my retirement moving all of my equipment down to the new shop. I spent all summer and fall driving back and forth towing a trailer to move all of the stuff that wouldn't fit in the U-Pack. I used U-Pack to move the equipment and hired labor on each end to help with the loading and unloading. When my wife retired in the winter of 2017 we had a commercial mover move us down to Utah. Most of our stuff is in storage and we are living in a very small, old house that was on the property while we are building our retirement home next door.

I'm not real familiar with Longview, but my sister and mom live in Tyler. It's a nice town, but it's turning into a retirement destination and prices and property values are going up rapidly. I don't know about Longview but it's probably the same, more or less. Both the climate and culture change will be immense. However your living expenses should be lower. Personally, I go to Texas as seldom as possible, but having relatives there requires that I do so occasionally. I still have two brothers in Houston, but if they want to see me they can come up here....

[lowell holmes]

You know where you are going. I always enjoy the forests in East Texas, the culture, and the towns. The culture there is enjoyable. In a previous life, I was a Scout leader and we made trips to East Texas. I really enjoyed the lakes and forests.

As side light IIRC, the distance from Beaumont to El Paso is 750 miles and there are three or four cultural changes between the two cities.

Galveston County is another culture as well. I will not be leaving this area. I have too many children and grandchildren close by.

[Carroll Courtney]

Tough question to answer, so guessing its a wwing shop.But if the market value is good where your at and there is no sentimental value I say sell them.While you are preparing for the move of household items,sell the machines in order of lease desirable.Then maybe the mover will let you slide in a TS or bandsaw into their trailer.If not maybe what you have left will fit in a covered UHaul trailer.Here in TX there are few auction sites that have running auctions going on all the time which is where I found some of my machines over the yrs.My taste in machines is of the vintage flavor,your may be towards newer machines which if you watch CL's you will find what your looking for so over little time you will be back up running.Once you get here you will be investing in some shop fans for sure cause it is hot during the summer but winter are no where's near what you go through now.Welcome to Tx,clear your mind you have afew 100-1000 friends right here at SawMill

[David Eisenhauer]

Biggest factor I see could be the size of the shop area you will have available to move into. Which of your current shop stuff fit? What tool/equipment do you now have that would be difficult/impossible to replace and you would not want to be without? Oh yeah, big climate and culture change coming up.

[Marc Jeske]

Living in the E tx area, such as Longview, or even further from civilization where I am at, you will NOT find machinery without driving to a major metro like Dallas and dealing w Clist hassles or bidding on an online auction photo.

Again check the local Clist links I sent for a taste of unavailability.

About all they sell around here is beaten Sawzaws, and maybe an occasional Radio saw, and Black and Decker is considered the good stuff.

Marc

[Peter Christensen]

A few years ago my wife got a good job here in Saskatoon so we packed up and moved from Vancouver. She went ahead and I sold the house, edited and packed all our stuff into two 20' shipping containers and put what we needed for the short term onto a utility trailer, in the back of my pickup and I followed. The containers were rented from Big Steel Box, likely similar companies in your area, that dropped the container in my driveway and picked it up when I had it loaded, brought another. When they had both they put them on semi-trucks and hauled them to Saskatoon. It was (in Canadian) about $3300 each container to bring to me for loading, haul to here, and then bring to the new house for me to unload, plus about $350 a month storage for the pair in their secure yard. If I knew it would take us almost a year and a half to buy land, get plans made, and build, I would have bought two containers and had them shipped out here and put on our property while the place was built. If you get your own containers you can weld bars down the length for more tie downs and they are useful after unloading.

When I got the container I realized there were not enough tie down points in it. :mad: Five rings along both sides at the top and bottom. I was not allowed to screw to the floor and if the container was damaged I would be charged a minimum of $1,000 for repairs. So I brought in the tall heavy machines(air compressor and bandsaw) putting them at the front against the wall with lots of padding, blocking and ratchet strapped them in. Then the table saw and then proceeded to pack heavy book filled boxes under, in and around those machines. More small tools etc., with lighter and lighter items as I went up finishing with blanket wrapped chairs, small tables until there wasn't anymore room in that first 5 feet. I then built a fence/partition of 1x boards with the corners cut so they could be dropped into the outward corrugations of the steel walls. A few vertical members were screwed to the horizontal ones to space them. They gave me more tie down options and would keep things from sliding back and forth as the container was winched on and off the tilt bed trucks used to haul them to and from the yard. I repeated that process until the last 5 foot area at the doors and there put in the vertical deep freeze, and tools that were heavy like the metal lathe and milling machine. I used a lot of ratchet straps and rope along with lots of foam and bubble wrap I got from my former employer. The shop and household goods were both loaded into the same containers because there was a weight limit of 18,000 pounds all up for a container, and I wanted to spread the load between the two. I was actually over maximum enough that the front end of the tilt bed truck's front wheels came off the ground 4' when he pulled it on. They used a bigger truck for the second container. :) Nothing shifted or was damaged in either container and the containers themselves had no damage either.

So a couple more things to add. We ordered a lot of single and double wall boxes from U-Line along with a few rolls of small bubble wrap, a plastic strapping kit and a packing tape dispenser with rolls of tape. The boxes were 12" cubes and 14" cubes. That made it possible to stack them easily and hold enough to be liftable, even full of books. We also ordered a 10 pack of moving blankets from Amazon for a bit over $100 to supplement the half dozen friends gave us. You know who your friends are when you have a household of good to pack and load in a short period of time.

The editing is the hard part and it still bugs me when I need something that I gave away, like solvent that isn't supposed to be in the container, or saw horses because they take up too much space, or the brass, bronze, aluminium, and steel that I took and sold to the scrap yard. Leaving machines is hard especially when you don't get much for them and there are none where you move to and they cost lots to replace. But to keep the weight and bulk down you need to. Hand and small power tools are easier to bring and you should keep any tools you might want for construction or repaires before you get to unpack the containers. I had no problem giving away my 4 bagger dust pump as I always intended to put in a Clear Vue in the new shop. Household stuff is easier as mattresses and older stuffed couches are bulky and were long past replacing anyway. Sentimental things are the hardest but you have to start with one room at a time and work out. I lost at least 25 pounds in the less than 2 months it took from that day my wife and I decided to move until I drove away with the trailer. Found it waiting for me when I got here though. :rolleyes:

You have the benefit of having more time to go through the process especially if you can get your place before you have to move. I went the container route as there was no way I was going to hand it over to movers and have unknown strangers storing the goods in a warehouse. I bought special locks from a locksmith to secure the container and added 5 bolts with two jammed nuts to the latches.

A couple picks of the fence.

[Gary Radice]

I did kind of a reverse move: Virginia to the Pacific Northwest. Leaving aside the cultural issues and focusing on what part of the shop I moved:

I have mostly vintage woodworking machines that I have patiently restored, some of them rare, so I moved them. If I had machines from big box stores that could be easily replaced I would have sold and replaced. I also kept hand tools that are small so easy to move but expensive to replace (think planes, hand saws, chisels). But I was ruthless with everything else. I tossed the cheapo cobbled together benches and extension wings and off feed tables since I knew I'd want different sizes and shapes in the new shop anyway and are easy to make again. I sold most of my wood except for a few long wide boards. Most of the random parts and odd hardware that I told myself I'd use some day but hadn't for years got sold or taken to the dump. I haven't missed any of it.

I did disassemble and take my dust collection system and ducting. The ducts take up space but are lightweight so cheap to ship if you are moving. I ended up re-using almost all of it so that worked out well in my case.

Good luck with your move. It is stressful but can also be invigorating to move to a very different place.

[lowell holmes]

It is as cold in Galveston County Texas this morning .
20 degrees F, almost as cold as Anchorage Alaska.

[Mitchell Garnett]

Thanks for the moving tip. All my previous moves, the last one being 22+ years ago, were paid by my employer. I'm finding the couple of quotes more expensive than I expected but a big part is the 2 phase move and possibly 6 months storage. I'm going to have to refine that and find a way around moving in two steps.

The first phase was to declutter the house by storing things we want to keep and then clearing the remainder after the sale. That first part adds a lot of cost based on the 2 estimates I have from "traditional" movers. I'm considering using a PODS container for phase one instead. I've read good and bad extremes and the bad ones make me reluctant for a long distance move with storage. But having a container on my property for even a couple of months doesn't look bad.

[Mitchell Garnett]

I'm an amateur so my big tools aren't that large in comparison to something like the Wood Whisper's shop. I've got a PM2000 cabinet saw, a Grizzly 19" bandsaw, a Delta 16/32 sander, 8" Grizzly jointer, and a DeWalt planer.

At various times I've thought about selling the lot and then waiting to see how much I missed them. I've got a Festool track saw and an MFT so even moving completely away from a table saw has it's appeal. A video tour of Vic Tesolin's shop really brought home the amount of space a table saw demands.

[Mitchell Garnett]

Cost of living and politics are the driving factors for moving. And we're from Texas originally so it will be a bit like going home.

[Mitchell Garnett]

Are you ready for the change in culture? :)

Not only ready but looking forward to it. Without diving into politics, putting an NRA sticker on your car window is a good way to get your car keyed where I live now.

[Mitchell Garnett]

Having lived in Houston for over 25 years, I'm very familiar with the heat and humidity and am not looking forward to that at all. But lower taxes and and overall cost of living will make retirement more pleasant. I would like to work because I want to, not because I have to.

But there is a lot up here in the PNW that I will miss too.

[Peter Christensen]

Keep in mind that as you are near the sea ports all around Seattle/Tacoma that containers are available to buy for relatively cheap prices. As long as you have somewhere to store it in Texas it may be the cheapest solution.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Welcome home!! ...we'll keep the porch light on for ya.;)

[Mitchell Garnett]

Given the scarcity of used tools makes me wonder if selling them after I got there might result in a higher price... but I don't want to take that risk. If I decide to sell it will before I go.

Different topic: while I mentioned Longview, one of the reasons we're moving without having an address to move to is we want to be very selective and prefer a rural property, ideally under 2 acres but whatever size, something that isn't too much trouble to maintain. We have about 1.5 acres in rural Snohomish county but it is highly landscaped and is a maintenance nightmare. When I was professionally employed I could afford someone to help a couple of days a month but as a working-retired person, I can't afford it anymore. (I hate to admit it but at almost 69, some of the work is harder than I'm up to most of the time. :))

[Mitchell Garnett]

Thank you to everyone who has replied even if I didn't specifically reply to your message - all your contributions are really appreciated. Since there seems to be some interest, I'll update periodically when there's something new to contribute.

[David Helm]

30
Texas
11.12%
$6034



31
Massachusetts
11.52%
$6,253





32
Minnesota
11.59%
$6,291






33
Maine
11.63%
$6,316





34
Washington
11.72%
$6,363



State tax rates by rank. You are getting a slight tax break 0.6%

[Mitchell Garnett]

Thanks. Sales tax I take as pretty much equal. At least in Longview, TX, property taxes are a lot lower plus things like gasoline are lower by 70 cents a gallon or so. A bigger impact on me is I have a mortgage up here (bought more house/land than I should have as a older person but that is another story) and I'll be able to pay cash for a house and have money left over.

Here is an except from bankrate.com showing Seattle/Everett vs Longview differences. I'm not sure of the date or accuracy so take it with a big grain of salt:

376787

One thing the data above miss is that total electric bill with air conditioning is going to be much higher in Texas. Using a/c here in Snohomish makes my annual electric bill with SnoPUD work out to be about $2000. When I last lived in Houston 25 years ago, my June through September electric bill was over $2K.

[Scott Kuykendall]

I have moved twice in the last ten years from CA to SC and then back to CA. I used PODS both times and they are the way to go. Only being 4 inches off the ground and using a shop built ramp I moved almost everything by myself by just rolling the machine right into the POD. Another great thing is you can take all the time you need to load and unload, they include one month time to load, transit time and unload but can pay for extra time if needed. By having time you can bring all your scrap and full-size lumber using it to fill in all the open areas in and around your things.
Scott

[David Helm]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=376787&d=1516237527&thumb=1Wow! Where did you find such a complete breakdown?

[lowell holmes]

I live in Dickinson Texas, Galveston County, 25 miles from the coast. IIRC, my electric bill has never been over $300. Most months it is under $100.
My house is well insulated and has no air leaks. Also the yard has numerous shade trees. Look for a house with trees in the yard.

[Mitchell Garnett]

www dot bankrate dot com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx (hopefully this format won't violate the links rule on the forum).

[Mitchell Garnett]

I doubt anyone is following this thread but just in case: Our move to Texas finally happens on the 28th. By taking the 'scenic' route, we expect to get to Longview about the July 7th to start looking for a house. Judging from the inventory of houses I expect it won't take long to find one that suits us. I won't know until then whether my shop will be the garage or a purpose built one.

In the end I chose to get 3 PODs for the move; one was for heavy tools, etc., another holds outdoor tools and yard furniture. and the last holds our household goods. I originally wanted to use a professional mover for the but household stuff but it just cost more than I wanted to pay, especially after I learned the State of Washington and the county I live in are taking a 1.78% excise tax off the top of my sale. (One more reason to flee the great NW).

My wife and I both grew up in Texas and we're looking forward to going home.

[Scott Kuykendall]

How did you like using the PODS. Can't beat the ease of loading with them. Good luck house hunting.

[Marc Jeske]

Mitch - Marc, S of Hemphill here.

We PM'd some time ago.

100 mile from Longview, but as I said before, let me know If I can help in any way.

Marc

[Carl Beckett]

Moving like that is both a curse and an opportunity when it comes to your shop, not just for the downsizing of the house aspect!

What I'll suggest to you is that on the opportunity side, you need to ponder if "reinventing" your shop is better than just moving it the way it is now. Finances obviously come into play with that, but setting up new with, perhaps, things you've often wanted, but didn't have the space or means at the time should be on the table. You'll be starting with a brand new space anyway. So if you've contemplated a Euro combo machine or some other different setup but never did it, this is a great time to consider. Ask yourself what you want to focus on with your woodworking going forward and how best to do that since you have to make changes anyway. If you decide to "reinvent", then sell off stuff you would be replacing before you move and just take cherished things as well as hand tools and the things you need to actually setup at the other end.


+1 on this. I have moved my shop... 8 times minimum. Both short (across town) and long (Ohio to Washington state, then Washington to Puerto Rico, then Puerto Rico to Boston).

Sometimes I kept everything. Sometimes I sold all the big stuff and stuff I dont use often and moved the smaller stuff. Sometimes it went into storage for as long as a year while things settled on the other end.

One time I had one of those food vacuum packing machines, and I put all my hand tools in a bag with a spritz of oil and vacuum packed everything. NO RUST, no corrosion of any type, and they ended up in storage much longer than originally anticipated so I was pretty satisfied to have done it (I did get some good natured teasing about vacuum packing my tools!)

My experience has been that the bigger tools are the easiest to replace. And most times (not always) I upgraded or switched setup/working style as a result. Then each new shop space came with new workbench/storage projects (always take time), so dont necessarily expect to be up and going immediately in the new space.

Also with a new house I tend to end up doing more house projects at first, then the furniture making comes later once the house is established (different type of equipment and tools needed)

Dont be afraid to let go of stuff you havent used much. Good luck, moving is a PITA!

[lowell holmes]

And oh, by the way, you may experience a bit of a cultural shock. :)

[Wade Holloway]

Good luck with the move. Will be interested to see how it goes. Best of luck to you. By the way Longview is a nice little town, we lived there several years ago. One interesting thing about Longview is that you could only by alcohol inside the loop that goes around Longview, outside of the loop was dry. Never did get that one figured out. :)

[Dave Cav]

Try to find a place as high as possible. My mom lives in Tyler (practically next door) and has a terrible time with high water due to thunderstorms. Having a drainage ditch in the back yard doesn't help, either.

Most houses in that region are slab on grade. Slab and foundation cracking is a big deal and very common. Take a close look at walls, ceilings and door openings for signs of settling.

The heat and humidity this time of year are going to be brutal coming from Snohomish county. Good luck.

[Marshall Harrison]

Good luck with the move.

I'm planning a move from Jacksonville, FL to the Asheville, NC area. Don't have the timing for the move yet but it will most likely be sometime in the next two years. Earlier if I can swing it.

[Jim Becker]

I hope the move goes well!
-------

Marshall, Asheville is a lovely area for sure. Two folks I know have moved there in recent years.

[scott vroom]

"Moving from Pacific Northwest to East Texas - need advice"

My advice is to slap a NRA decal on your window and a MAGA sign in your new front lawn and you'll be fine :)