Apron? Vest? How do you keep track of things?

[Matt Lau]

Hey Neanderbuddies,

I recently got a Veritas apron for the power tool workshop, and love it.

Previously, I would always fumble for a square, tape measure, pencil, some screws, knife, etc.

This got me thinking that an apron/vest might be useful for unplugged woodworking?


What do you guys think?
Any preferences? Thoughts?

I was going to repurpose a vest as a Neander woodworking mobile armament: pencil, square, marking knife, micrometer, tape measure....not sure what else?

My stuff is pretty small scale, simple, and light duty (not scrubbing a log).

How about you?

[david beck]

Sorry it is off the topic, but what do you use a micrometer for in woodworking? I am disabled so i work sitting so i cant give an opinion on aprons.

[Todd Stock]

I use a 600mm length of 3.5mm paracord from each tool to a common anchor point on my old repurposed combat vest...no more lost tools. There is also a 40m length of 10.2mm Mammut Gravity Classic line running from center of the back of my vest to an anchor point just outside the shop door. The military refers to these retainers as 'dummy cords' - have no clue why.

[Frederick Skelly]

I like your idea and I really wanted to like wearing a shop apron - pockets helpful. But after 2 tries, I didn't find a brand that's comfortable across my shoulders and gave up. My second attempt - $40 from Dubuque Trading - just hangs there on the wall.

Maybe one day I'll modify it.

Fred

[George Bokros]

I use an apron from Duluth Trading and love it. My tape, 6" rule, air cleaner remote, calculator, double squares, etc area always at hand.

[Derek Cohen]

.... or you could just use this Veritas magnet tool belt ...

http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/item/woodworking/assorted/magnetictoolbelt-dsp2.jpg

All the best dressed wear one ...

http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/item/woodworking/assorted/magnetictoolbelt-inset1.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek :)

[Frederick Skelly]

There is also a 40m length of 10.2mm Mammut Gravity Classic line running from center of the back of my vest to an anchor point just outside the shop door. The military refers to these retainers as 'dummy cords' - have no clue why.

Todd, I'm not following you. Why are you tethered like that? I can see how it would be a useful string of breadcrumbs for a war fighter, but what's it do for you in the shop?

Fred

[Todd Stock]

Fred:

I had been using the Veritas magnetic belt system as Derek posted; however, after a mishap opening a clogged bottle of CA, I managed to glue both hands to my forehead, and in attempting to walk to shop door for aid, stumbled into a Lally column. Several of the unused magnets (I had tools on order to fill them) locked me firmly in place, and only after missing breakfast, lunch, and dinner did my family discover what had become of me and summon appropriate help. I sadly parted with the Veritas belt and moved onto the cord system described.

[Frederick Skelly]

Fred:

I had been using the Veritas magnetic belt system as Derek posted; however, after a mishap opening a clogged bottle of CA, I managed to glue both hands to my forehead, and in attempting to walk to shop door for aid, stumbled into a Lally column. Several of the unused magnets (I had tools on order to fill them) locked me firmly in place, and only after missing breakfast, lunch, and dinner did my family discover what had become of me and summon appropriate help. I sadly parted with the Veritas belt and moved onto the cord system described.

Todd,
I think that story ranks right up there with a couple Malcolm Schweitzer has posted here. (Assuming you're not pulling my leg! :D :D :D) Man, what a crazy string of events! Definitely funnier in the years after than it was at the time, huh? Glad you got out of that mess. :)

Fred

[roger wiegand]

I have both aprons and vests as well as a nice tool belt for construction work. What I cannot do, after 40 years of strenuous effort, is to train myself to put my pencil (or speedsquare, or whatever else) back into my pocket rather than laying it down next to wherever I was using it. I tried using a zinger for the pencil, but it drove me crazy.

[brian zawatsky]

Fred:

I had been using the Veritas magnetic belt system as Derek posted; however, after a mishap opening a clogged bottle of CA, I managed to glue both hands to my forehead, and in attempting to walk to shop door for aid, stumbled into a Lally column. Several of the unused magnets (I had tools on order to fill them) locked me firmly in place, and only after missing breakfast, lunch, and dinner did my family discover what had become of me and summon appropriate help. I sadly parted with the Veritas belt and moved onto the cord system described.

Funniest thing I've read all year. Careful not to inadvertently hang yourself on that tether


its a shame that sarcasm doesn't always translate well in these capacities...

[Derek Cohen]

Fred:

I had been using the Veritas magnetic belt system as Derek posted; however, after a mishap opening a clogged bottle of CA, I managed to glue both hands to my forehead, and in attempting to walk to shop door for aid, stumbled into a Lally column. Several of the unused magnets (I had tools on order to fill them) locked me firmly in place, and only after missing breakfast, lunch, and dinner did my family discover what had become of me and summon appropriate help. I sadly parted with the Veritas belt and moved onto the cord system described.

Todd, I am so sorry that you went through this ordeal. If you contact Lee Valley, they will send you an order of Domino's Pizza to replace the calories you lost.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Malcolm McLeod]

.... or you could just use this Veritas magnet tool belt ...

http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/item/woodworking/assorted/magnetictoolbelt-inset1.jpg


This could make stretching for something while the nail bin is on the bench an ER-worthy event! :eek:


Todd, ... Why are you tethered like that? ...
I believe that would be a rescue line. Useful for first responders - without necessitating them calling OSHA for a Confined Space Entry Permit to Todd's shop (What ARE you building in there??:confused:)


Funniest thing I've read all year. Careful not to inadvertently hang yourself on that tether

its a shame that sarcasm doesn't always translate well in these capacities...
+1:D

[Don Jarvie]

The rockler apron is very comfortable and has a nice assortment of pockets.

[Todd Stock]

When asked a few years ago about what I wanted for my birthday, I mentioned that Lee Valley has pretty good stuff, so she orders whatever shows up in the early April email flyer. I have to pretend that I find those gifts useful, but quite honestly, some of those tools have been real clunkers.

[Simon MacGowen]

H


What do you guys think?
Any preferences? Thoughts?

I was going to repurpose a vest as a Neander woodworking mobile armament: pencil, square, marking knife, micrometer, tape measure....not sure what else?

My stuff is pretty small scale, simple, and light duty (not scrubbing a log).

How about you?

Let me be blunt: An apron serves to protect the clothing behind the apron only (from dust or stain). The pockets are a joke. If you put a small square or rule in the upper pocket, they tend to fall out when you lean. Or they will poke your chest when you really bend.

At least that has been my experience. I now wear my apron with nothing in its pockets. If I fold my apron and accidentally sit on it, nothing is hurt (including my bottom).

I will not spend too much money on an apron as I look at it as a consumable. Spending $150 (more?) on an apron is not how I would spend my shop dollars.

Heavy leather apron is another joke unless your shoulders enjoy constant, sometimes irritating massage.

Rob Cosman wears a white apron that makes him look more like a cook than a woodworker. The stain on the apron is distracting to say the least (as he has the habit of wiping off glue from his hand on the apron?).

Simon

[Derek Cohen]

When asked a few years ago about what I wanted for my birthday, I mentioned that Lee Valley has pretty good stuff, so she orders whatever shows up in the early April email flyer. I have to pretend that I find those gifts useful, but quite honestly, some of those tools have been real clunkers.

Only if you get them very early in April :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Simon MacGowen]

When asked a few years ago about what I wanted for my birthday, I mentioned that Lee Valley has pretty good stuff, so she orders whatever shows up in the early April email flyer. I have to pretend that I find those gifts useful, but quite honestly, some of those tools have been real clunkers.

You might not know you were a lucky guy.

I never was fast enough to order any of the tools released by Veritas on the first day of April and they all sold out faster than the CyberMonday goodies. They should do what the (never are really) one time tool company does: allow customers to pre-order their April 1st new releases so they could make enough for every customer!

Simon

[Todd Stock]

With all this interest in Roubo and older benches, I'm surprised that one of the oldest tool holding systems - the French braguette - has not been mentioned. The system keeps useful items below waist level - reducing the chance of something falling onto the work - in a well-padded cloth pouch, but still allows ready access. I don't recall the page number from my reprint, but it seems as though there are several illustrations and at least one mention in the book.

[Kevin Smira]

I use an atlas46 vest. I like it. It’s very tactical looking...which is good In case we are on a raid with seal team 6 and a coffin needs to be made...

[Jim Koepke]

There is also a 40m length of 10.2mm Mammut Gravity Classic line running from center of the back of my vest to an anchor point just outside the shop door. The military refers to these retainers as 'dummy cords' - have no clue why.

It is so when one is totally absorbed into their work the wife can give it a yank and yell, "hey dummy your dinner has been getting cold for the last hour!"

When my work involved being mobile with tools one of my solutions was a tool belt. One problem with them is tools can fall out or when working in the public some people like to see if they can lift one without the wearer noticing.

Tried a vest and it only lasted a few days. It tended to get to warm for me.

Now my tools when out and about are in a box. In the shop they rest on the bench or get put back in their permanent space. On the bench some order is kept with a rack for tools like rasps and chisels:

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One of my plans for the future is a tool well on the bench. The real problem with one of those is having to put things away before they build up into an unusable pile of stuff.

jtk

[Mark Gibney]

Todd, that's a series of unfortunate events. I hope more of them happen to you so we can hear about them.

Reminds me of the great dark comic novel The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien. A chapter in the book discusses the making of an intricate decorative wooden storage chest, inside of which there is an exact scaled model, inside of which...

[Bill McDermott]

Matt -- A pencil and a 6" rule, but I rarely use them. They are backups to the same things at the bench.

Todd -- Could we optimize the magnetic tool belt by making them electromagnets? It seems that an accelerometer detecting downward motion ending in a stable horizontal position could be programmed to release in a few seconds. I would not call it a FallStop tool belt, but perhaps it could be marketed as a quick release safety feature. For those prone (ugh) to such mishaps, perhaps the retrieval line (and now power cord) could be run through an overhead pulley/winch, also activated by the smart belt system. Puts you back on your feet, back in business. As for the "time to eat" feature, the whole thing could be WiFi connected so your wife would not have to come out to the shop to tug on the cord. She could activate the winch, release the tools or perhaps run a small bit of current through your torso from an app on her phone. "Soups On!"

[Matt Lau]

Sorry it is off the topic, but what do you use a micrometer for in woodworking? I am disabled so i work sitting so i cant give an opinion on aprons.

I will mainly be doing guitars. Micrometers are extremely handy for deflection, action, and measuring small parts like the nut slot.

[Matt Lau]

Hey Simon,

I mainly got the apron to keep dust off my clothes. The pockets just caught me by surprise for usefulness.

I realize that Neander woodworking is a bit different, so figured I'd ask.

[david beck]

Thanks for that matt, i inherited one and never found a use in my woodworking for it.

[john zulu]

I tend not to use an apron. I like my trolley next to me with the tools laid out..

[Todd Stock]

But seriously, a luthier needs two things from an apron: protection of the instrument finish from scratches caused by clothing (buttons, zippers, belt buckles, etc.), and a place to put a few tools. After close to 14 years of luthiery, I carry a cheap 4" Harbor Freight digital caliper, a small Starrett adjustable square, a 4B Tombow pencil, a 2xAAA Coast LED penlight inspection flashlight (clipped to pocket on right side of apron), 0.5 and 0.7mm Pentel mechanical pencils, 6" Starrett flex rule in 5R grad, and a Fender Premium Plush polishing cloth. After a number of aprons, the Veritas Valley Mk. II canvas apron gets my vote - nicely adjustable over the shoulder sand neck, two slash pockets for tools that will not fill with dust or dump tools onto the work, and a couple good pencil and rule pockets on the upper chest that will not spill. The apron comes in two lengths, with the shorter one perfect for those under 5'-6" or with some curves. For buffing work, the shop apron comes off and a simple twill or flannel kitchen apron goes on, along with fume/dust mask and a good check for anything hanging loose.

On tools in the the apron - I seldom use a tape, other than rough milling, so tapes are scattered around the shop, fixed to machines with magnets (the little DeWalt has a built-in magnet) - one hangs on the band saw, one on the tablesaw, and a few others sit in handle places near the benches. For measurements longer than 6", you'll want a good 24" and 36" rule graduated in 5R or 16R, and another Starrett flex rule in 12" length with the same grads. I keep a duplicate set of rules in the shop in mm for work on classicals , and a 6" 32nd/64th/1mm/ 0.5mm rule with end grads in 32nds or 64th is a good idea. A trimming plane like the little LN is handy, but I have one at each bench, and that is primarily where luthiers work, other than when at the trojy or buffing.

On digital calipers...necessary for luthiers, where tolerances are often +/- 0.001". I've gotten so used to using them that even on cabinet work where a 64th would be fine (17 times larger than my usual tolerances!), I still work to digital values of a few thou...force of habit.

[lowell holmes]

I prefer an apron and I had one. However, Hurricane Harvey got it.

I think I will go by Home Depot.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-23-5-in-Canvas-Bib-Apron-Black-HD00122/300035090?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-202311423-_-300035090-_-N

[Brandon Speaks]

I dont think I could get myself to wear an apron or vest for tool holding. I do have a belt which is invaluable if putting up a fence or siding where you need a large supply of screws or nails and a place to hand a drill, hammer, pliers, etc when you need both hands. Even then though I liked a minamilist one with one decent size pouch for screws, a hanger for drill / hammer and only one more small pocket for fencing pliers. In the shop though I almost never use it, the back jeans pocket will work for smaller items and bigger stuff is just set on the bench or in a small rubbermade tote.

I tired an apron once to keep close lest dusty and keep chips off for power carving and lathe work but in the end I never wear it.

If I ever did use something a belt style would be better for me than vest or apron I think but it would be set up with items for a given operation or series of operations and not general storage.

[Matt Lau]

But seriously, a luthier needs two things from an apron: protection of the instrument finish from scratches caused by clothing (buttons, zippers, belt buckles, etc.), and a place to put a few tools. After close to 14 years of luthiery, I carry a cheap 4" Harbor Freight digital caliper, a small Starrett adjustable square, a 4B Tombow pencil, a 2xAAA Coast LED penlight inspection flashlight (clipped to pocket on right side of apron), 0.5 and 0.7mm Pentel mechanical pencils, 6" Starrett flex rule in 5R grad, and a Fender Premium Plush polishing cloth. After a number of aprons, the Veritas Valley Mk. II canvas apron gets my vote - nicely adjustable over the shoulder sand neck, two slash pockets for tools that will not fill with dust or dump tools onto the work, and a couple good pencil and rule pockets on the upper chest that will not spill. The apron comes in two lengths, with the shorter one perfect for those under 5'-6" or with some curves. For buffing work, the shop apron comes off and a simple twill or flannel kitchen apron goes on, along with fume/dust mask and a good check for anything hanging loose.

On tools in the the apron - I seldom use a tape, other than rough milling, so tapes are scattered around the shop, fixed to machines with magnets (the little DeWalt has a built-in magnet) - one hangs on the band saw, one on the tablesaw, and a few others sit in handle places near the benches. For measurements longer than 6", you'll want a good 24" and 36" rule graduated in 5R or 16R, and another Starrett flex rule in 12" length with the same grads. I keep a duplicate set of rules in the shop in mm for work on classicals , and a 6" 32nd/64th/1mm/ 0.5mm rule with end grads in 32nds or 64th is a good idea. A trimming plane like the little LN is handy, but I have one at each bench, and that is primarily where luthiers work, other than when at the trojy or buffing.

On digital calipers...necessary for luthiers, where tolerances are often +/- 0.001". I've gotten so used to using them that even on cabinet work where a 64th would be fine (17 times larger than my usual tolerances!), I still work to digital values of a few thou...force of habit.


Thanks for the tips, Todd!

I find myself stumbling through this, since most of my pro luthier friends use giant thickness sanders and tons of jigs.
I'll be mostly building off a portable workbench, with a few scrapers and hand planes.

Knowing specifically which tools is really helpful.
I'll be saving your post for notes.

But yeah...I agree with you regarding the tape measures. Mine would be more for thinking through jigs/shop furniture that would need to be mocked up.

By the way, any pictures of your work stations?
I'll need to make a workbench, a Trojy, and organization.
As for digital calipers, I love my Mitotuyo!
I've been trying to figure out how to make a thickness caliper with a digital dial caliper.

One tool that I've found pretty useful (but not apron friendly) is the japanese miter gauge: http://www.hidatool.com/woodworking/layout/shinwa-45-and-90-degrees-miter-gauge-aluminum
It's got a nice flat surface for laying out square lines and checking square.

[michael langman]

I just found these aprons online like the ones I wore in the toolroom. They are nice because they are light to wear and good pockets.

sevenmilecreek.com.

[steven c newman]

I use the bench's tool well. I have a decent, cotton duck apron...more to keep me clean, than keep track of tools. Then again, I work in a very small shop area..

[Jerry Olexa]

I have a couple but they hang neatly on a hook unused for several years now...Just me I suppose....They keep you neater, cleaner but in my small world, tend to get in the way...Said the man with the lost handtools and the dirty clothes:)

[Simon MacGowen]

https://youtu.be/hlhwL4-2-bE?t=4m29s

The easiest way to gain a few pounds, guys!

Simon

[Simon MacGowen]

I have a couple but they hang neatly on a hook unused for several years now...Just me I suppose....They keep you neater, cleaner but in my small world, tend to get in the way...Said the man with the lost handtools and the dirty clothes:)

More dirty clothes than lost tools for me. My shop clothes and aprons always go into a separate load from my family's.

I like my old Lee Valley aprons because they have pocket flaps to keep sawdust away. I wear them only when using power tools and applying finishes. Using hand tools is generally a dust-less operation.

Simon

[phil harold]

I wear this for trim carpentry and in my shop
Very handy
https://workingperson.com/blaklader-mens-stone-3120-1310-2700-bantam-kangaroo-vest.html

[Noah Magnuson]

I dont think I could get myself to wear an apron or vest for tool holding. I do have a belt which is invaluable if putting up a fence or siding where you need a large supply of screws or nails and a place to hand a drill, hammer, pliers, etc when you need both hands. Even then though I liked a minamilist one with one decent size pouch for screws, a hanger for drill / hammer and only one more small pocket for fencing pliers. In the shop though I almost never use it, the back jeans pocket will work for smaller items and bigger stuff is just set on the bench or in a small rubbermade tote.

I tired an apron once to keep close lest dusty and keep chips off for power carving and lathe work but in the end I never wear it.

If I ever did use something a belt style would be better for me than vest or apron I think but it would be set up with items for a given operation or series of operations and not general storage.

I love my bjornklader (https://www.constructiongear.com/blaklader-work-pants-x1600-utility-pockets.html?utm_source=googlepepla&utm_medium=adwords&id=300285624652&gclid=CjwKCAiA4vbSBRBNEiwAMorER5QkflTKh7E0MYhmN9-vAGKb02QDBuZplPGZVj540Tm5QPScpATjaRoCWccQAvD_BwE) pants other than I have to empty the pouches to wash. The built-in knee pads are one of those things that remind you how great they are every time you kneel. They are a great combination of work pant and tool/fastener holder. They are a bit more tuned to general construction than woodworking, but still work great. If you work where it is hot, they also have a short pants version. Being Swedish may make me biased though.

[Philipp Jaindl]

I just use the pockets on my work pants, have found it neither necessary nor comfortable to be a walking tool cabinet. Most things are either in the actual tool cabinet or the tool well of the bench which is usually close enough not to have to carry everything around.

[Pat Barry]

I use a carpenters tool belt for projects outside where its nice to carry nails, hammer, tape measure etc. Never thought about why I would need anything inside my little shop. All a skirt would do would be get in my way.

[Bill Sutherland]

Blaklader vest has worked well for me.

[Glen Johnson]

I have a Rockler style of apron. I always keep a block plane, utility knife, wax for tool, a four way file, and other tools in the four pockets. I hang it near my workbench and whenever I need those tools, I know exactly where to go.

[Todd Stock]

Feel free to PM me, and I'll point you towards some resources on trojys, etc.

[John Gornall]

Vest like Tom Lie Nielsen wears - with pencil and rule slots at chest and 2 lower pockets for small tape measure and a few screws. One warm for winter. One light with mesh back for summer.

[John Gornall]

Actually I glued a magnet inside mine in just the right spot to hold the 6" rule on the front where my hand can find it without looking.

[glenn bradley]

Hey Simon,

I mainly got the apron to keep dust off my clothes. The pockets just caught me by surprise for usefulness.

I realize that Neander woodworking is a bit different, so figured I'd ask.

I am another who dearly wants an apron to work but, I just can't seem to deal with them. I've tried everything from full aprons to just the waist bags. I even modified a belt-clipped tool holder to hold just the items I use when selecting stock and marking parts. This is the only version of wearable tool holder that has survived the 'proof of concept' testing with me.

My alternative to the apron has been my methods and working habits. I have things that I use in a certain area for certain tasks stored in those areas; shallow drawers at the bench for chisels, rules, marking gauges / knives and the like. Tools involved with sharpening tasks are at the sharpening area so I don't have to go looking for them and other such 'work station' like approaches to tool gatherings. This means I have a few tapes, 6" rules and calipers at different places around the shop but, it works for me.

I am just a bit too mobile or too clumsy for the apron. I am constantly catching it on something or trying to move in a way that it resists. I still look at them longingly and hope to stumble on a design that will be useful and still allow me freedom of movement.

[lowell holmes]

How do I keep track of things. Well.... my wife sees to that I do. :)

[Matt Lau]

How do I keep track of things. Well.... my wife sees to that I do. :)

Guess I need to get me a wife!

[Stanley Covington]

I used to have my wife make canvas aprons for me to wear around the shop, but nowadays I use a Lee Valley apron. They work better and my wife complains less.

I keep a pencil or pen in the breast pockets, but nothing in the waist pockets (except sawdust and shavings that find their way in). I like John's idea of attaching a magnet to keep a steel ruler in place.

The advantage to an apron is it protects my clothes from stains, and all I need to do to eliminate the dust and shavings that even neanderthal style woodworking produces from my clothes is to remove the apron. Time saver.

But once again, other than pencils, I don't like to carry tools in my apron.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/images/item/woodworking/apronsaccessores/67k1006s1.jpg

[John Gornall]

I put a steel washer inside the fabric and a rare earth magnet on the outside of the fabric of whatever I'm wearing - tee shirt to heavy fleece - to hold a tool or two as needed for the job at hand. Couple of screwdrivers up a ladder or countersink at drill press. Glued little washers to my carpenter's pencils. Even hold parts on thighs of my jeans.

[Bill Carey]

After years of working as a carpenter, with the heavy bags hanging off my hips, I have a pinched nerve in my hip that precludes wearing them anymore. (this was back before suspenders were invented). So I simply clip this to my pocket: marking knife, some pencils, tape, dust collector remote, 6" rule. My guiding principle is KISS.
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