Tiny Mortise and Tenon

[Bill Adamsen]

I have a proposed project using 5/16" thick hardwoods and relatively small pieces that I'd like to connect using mortise and tenon. But maybe I am just stuck in a rut and can't think about alternative joinery to M&T. The volume of connections is such that I have to use some type of machining, hand cutting the mortises is out of the question.

The tenons ... no problem ... but what do I do for the mortise? I assume I should just jig up my router table with a 1/8" or 5/32" plunge bit? Is there such a bit? This is where I wish I had one of JTE's router based mortisers.

Am I missing an obvious way to mill really small pieces together?

[Bryan Lisowski]

What are you actually making? It seems that would help determine if there is a better joinery method. To me it seems that the walls of the mortise might be to thin and could be an issue.

[Bill Adamsen]

They are lightweight frames. The tenon (and mortise) would provide significantly more strength than a simple butt joint. Half-laps could possibly work but would add undesirable aesthetics. The frames will be clear coated ... not sure yet but likely I'll spray with a waterborne conversion varnish. The specific species have not been chosen, but will be a typical close-grained eastern hardwood (maple, cherry, perhaps walnut). Total size is 14" by 10" or thereabouts.

[Warren Lake]

think Jack Forsberg posted a 1/8" mortise chisel, doesnt seem possible as im saying it however im not ready for the retirement home either so maybe the memory is correct.

[John Lanciani]

4mm domino?

[Bill Adamsen]

I see that article (thank you) on Canadian Woodworker ... Jack displays a 3mm which he said was very hard to get (not available NA) and very expensive. I have the Domino and actually have 4mm tenons ... technically that should work.

[Bill Adamsen]

4mm domino?

That could work! I was actually just measuring those in the shop (C O L D) ... but then does anyone use the Domino for mortises on the ends of pieces 8mm by say 30mm? It feels like an operation where I'd want a fixed tool rather than a portable one.

[Myk Rian]

There are 1/8" bits, but in 5/16" hardwood, you should buy several of them. They are easy to break.

[John Gornall]

You could do these on a Leigh FMT - Leigh sells bits for this.

https://www.leighjigs.com/fmt_overview.php

[Bill Adamsen]

This looks like a simple build that could possibly work ...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKtx799hjkC/

[Matt Day]

When you say lightweight frames, do you mean pictures frames?

For something that small my first thought would be to keep it simple. Half lap joint miter, or possibly just a butt joint. Wonder if 2p-10 would work?

[Edwin Santos]

Usually for thinner stock, I look to splines as a joinery choice. Would that be an option?

You could cut the splines slots with a slot cutter at the router table, or on the table saw or with a biscuit joiner.

If you're up for dowel joinery, you could fashion dowels from dowel rods from a home center. I would think smaller diameter dowel pins are available also. If it's a production situation, I think splines would be faster than dowels in the absence of specialized machinery.

Edwin

[Vince Shriver]

How about a bridle joint - see John's post.

[Jim Becker]

That could work! I was actually just measuring those in the shop (C O L D) ... but then does anyone use the Domino for mortises on the ends of pieces 8mm by say 30mm? It feels like an operation where I'd want a fixed tool rather than a portable one.
Can you place the mortises on a wider piece of material spaced such that ripping them after mortises are cut with the Domino can happen? (kerf width taken into consideration) that would provide you with a more stable workpiece to cut those tiny slots with the machine...

[John TenEyck]

Well, if you want one of my HRM's you can have one. Not hard to build, or send me a PM. Amana does make a 3/16" plunge router bit as well as smaller diameter ones, all with a 1/8" shank. They also sell some 1/4" shank ones but I'm not sure they will plunge cut. Eagle American has some small 1/4" shank ones, too, and I'm sure there are others. Once you find the right router bit what you want to do would be a simple task on a HRM.

John

[Lee Schierer]

What about a bridle joint.
375578

[Brian Holcombe]

The last shoji I made had something like 50+ 1/4” square mortises. Took about 2 hours to cut all of them by hand with chisel and hand drill.

[Mark Gibney]

Bill I like that jig you posted to turn the Domino into a stationary mortiser.

If you are concerned the Domino method could cause some misalignment you could sand the dominos to be a little thinner and use epoxy to glue them in. That would allow you to get the frame parts all lined up good.

[Ted Derryberry]

I know Freud has 1/8" bits as I've got a couple of different ones. I'm pretty sure they're plunge type. Go slow and you should be okay. Ever considered a Pantorouter? It's capable of that kind of precision, but you might need to make you're own template and/or bearing to get the size you need.

[Prashun Patel]

Mitered half laps.

And how do mortise and tenons look any different from regular half laps when observed from the front of the frame?

[andy bessette]

I'd miter the corners and install slip feathers. Easy on a table saw.

[glenn bradley]

What about a bridle joint.
375578

My favored joint for door frames.

[lowell holmes]

I would do it with a tenon saw, chisels, and a hand plane.

[Tom Bender]

How about laying it up with thinner wood with leave outs for the mortises?

You would want 5/64 and 5/32 thick stock, or just 5/64 which you could double for the center ply. Making or buying that would be the challenge but then it gets easy.

[Marshall Harrison]

I don't see why small wooden dowels won't work for this. Depending on the size you could just drill holes and use toothpicks or small wooden dowels from the Big Box store.

But I'm still kind of new. Someone elighten me please.

[Charles Lent]

One of the Leigh FMT Demos shows them making a M&T joint between two wooden match sticks. I have an FMT Pro jig, but have never tried making a M&T joint that small. Talk to their customer service about this.

Charley

[Joe Calhoon]

I bought a Domino 4 mm bit and adapter to use in my Domino XL for small divided light mortises in windows and doors. The bit works pretty well in the slot mortiser also.

[Edwin Santos]

I don't see why small wooden dowels won't work for this. Depending on the size you could just drill holes and use toothpicks or small wooden dowels from the Big Box store.

But I'm still kind of new. Someone elighten me please.

It's a sound idea. In fact, I once saw a woodworker using cut up bamboo skewers for this and it worked very well.

If the orientation of the frame is taller as opposed to flatter, keyed (splined) miters are a good way to go. Lots of ideas here, I hope he reports back with his choice.

[John Gornall]

Lee Valley lists 1/8" micro dowels - I keep them in my shop for small joinery

[Grant Wilkinson]

Lee Valley has spiral 1/8" straight router bits and an adapter to put them into a 1/4" collet. Plus, as John has posted, they carry 1/8" dowels.

[Bill Adamsen]

Mitered half laps.

And how do mortise and tenons look any different from regular half laps when observed from the front of the frame?

It is a frame ... but a standalone "frame" viewed from all sides, similar to a sheet-music stand. I would consider bridle joints for the ends, but I'm less enthusiastic for parts that join in a "T" fashion where the bridle really has to go on the outside of the rail (top of the T). I'm really looking for a production tenon cutting tool ... and ideally one that already has tenons available (Domino) or that can be easily fabricated.

There are lots of great ideas posted here and I appreciate all the thoughts. Today after a few chores, I am hoping to get out to the shop and experiment. First thing I would like to try is to setup the Domino like the referenced post. That seems like a versatile setup. I also reached out to John about the HRM which also looks exceptionally versatile.

[Bill Adamsen]

(bridle joints are) My favored joint for door frames.

Glenn ... your work with bridle joints is really stellar and was one of the first things I thought of when considering this. What do you do with a frame that has more than two rails? So the captive rails.

[Jim Becker]

Bill, thanks for referencing that "fixed position" Domino jig setup. It has my mind thinking about something a client asked me to spec out making for her yesterday. :)

[Simon MacGowen]

To mortise, you can use a dremel with a base. There are high-end precision dremel base, one from Lee Valley.
Simon

[Larry Edgerton]

That could work! I was actually just measuring those in the shop (C O L D) ... but then does anyone use the Domino for mortises on the ends of pieces 8mm by say 30mm? It feels like an operation where I'd want a fixed tool rather than a portable one.

Just a thought... Leave the stock thick, more then twice the thickness that you need and make your Domino cuts, then resaw and plane the remaining side to final thickness. Eliminates the thin stock issue while using the Domino.

[Warren Lake]

I used to use a 1/4" one from Onsrud think it was called CRO 285. They are upcut spiral and work excellent, extremely sharp. they were made for them at the time 1" of cutting length.