Gotta love spokeshaves

[Phil Mueller]

I have to admit, it has been quite a learning curve. Starting with a Stanley 151, it was hours of frustration...sharpening, chatter, too thick, too thin...I’m sure many have been through it. But I have to say, it’s turned into hours of enjoyment. I’ve come to really love these tools. Almost to the point I’m sad when I’ve “reached the scribe line”.

I fairly well solved the sharpening with the jig Paul Sellers features. Works well, and gave me the confidence to do repeatable touch ups. And while the 151 has quite a bit of backlash in the adjustments, it’s something you come to get used to. And as many know, one side a little fat and one side a little thin isn’t a bad thing.

I wanted to try other spokeshaves and purchased a Woodjoy #85. Beautifully crafted. Given it’s narrow blade, I adopted Paul Sellers method of bringing the files to the blade vs trying to take the blade to the stones. Again, this is working well.

One thing I’ve noticed is the 151 seems to register better. I get more undulations with the Woodjoy. Don’t know exactly why. The soles are similar in size, but the angle of the iron is different. I think I may be tilting the Woodjoy down to engage the iron and not utilizing the full sole...not sure. It’s better when I tilt it sideways a bit, but haven’t mastered the full smooth shaving yet. It’s a great shave and can make wonderful thin shavings...just need to work with it more. I’m sure it’s technique. If anyone has any suggestions, I’m all ears.

Here’s a recent table shelf I’ve been working on. Initially cut out with bowsaw and fret saw, and finished with the spokeshaves. I’m looking forward to another project with curves!

375463

[David Eisenhauer]

When a spokeshave is working well, it is a pleasure indeed to use. And a spokeshave will make you find grain direction right now, won't it? Agreed on the P Sellers sharpening paddle. I only have the Stanley shave with a center adjusting screw (can't ever remember the numbers on all of the Stanley tools) and have wanted to try the ones with adjustment screws on the sides. If you have any input on the differences and preferences, I would appreciate to hear of them.

[Patrick Chase]

With respect to stability/registration, the 151 has a proper sole that extends both in front of and behind the iron.

In contrast the Stanley 85 and its WoodJoy successor register entirely on a small toepiece. The iron itself must tilt a few degrees away from the wood (for clearance) when cutting. It shouldn't be that hard to get a clean cut with one though, as my 7-year-old son can do it. Just tilt your wrists until you feel the toe engage, and then focus on maintaining that engagement through the cut. Rounded-toe cigar shaves are more challenging since you don't get a "cue" from the toe, but even those are pretty manageable with some practice.

[Phil Mueller]

So Patrick, are you suggesting that a spokeshave is sorta like an iPhone...if I give it to a 7 year old, they can show me how it works? :D

My issue is that I can get a good clean shaving...I’m just not consistent enough in holding it in a continuous plane. I get slight hills and valleys...much more so than with the 151.

[Mike Henderson]

I have way too many spokeshaves and don't really use them that much anymore. But when I was using them, I found the LN Boggs shave to be a really great shave. I mostly used the flat bottom and recently bought a curved bottom Boggs - but it doesn't have much of a curve.

Anyway, the first time I used the flat bottom LN Boggs I was just amazed.

Note, however, that the Boggs are for fine work, not roughing work. But most people have one or more spokeshaves with an open mouth to rough with.

Mike

[I found the 151 to be a difficult shave to work with, also. Maybe it was because it was my first shave.]

[bill howes]

I'm sitting here in the midst of a fierce winter storm and cant work in the shop so I might as well put my 2 cents in on my favourite topic spokeshaves.
It seems that part of the difficulty I initially had using spokeshaves arises from the fact that some like the Stanley 151,and the Boggs type wooden handled shaves etc are bevel down spoke shaves-i.e. the blade is sharpened bevel down.
The antique wood spokeshaves, the woodjoy 85 and its Stanley 85 precursor are sharpened bevel up.
Just like in planing, for end grain I choose a bevel up shave, in my case often one made from the kit provided by Lee Valley. Otherwise the standard bevel down seems most user friendly, such as the Stanley 51 or 151 or the 53 (which is the adjustable mouth one).
The stroke is a bit different with bevel up (the 85). You take a finer shaving or exit the cut by tilting the shave forward on to the leading or front brass edge. In contrast with the bevel down such as the 151 you finish the cut by tilting the shave onto the heel of the shave.
The Millers Falls cigar shave is a different beast altogether and very hard to master as Patrick mentions you dont really have a leading sole to start your cut. And sharpening them is another whole issue with the cylindrical blade.
Spokeshaves are a great tool to use, quiet and leave a great finished surface. When they work well they seem to give great satisfaction
Best wishes

[Derek Cohen]

The stroke is a bit different with bevel up (the 85). You take a finer shaving or exit the cut by tilting the shave forward on to the leading or front brass edge. In contrast with the bevel down such as the 151 you finish the cut by tilting the shave onto the heel of the shave.

Bill, that is my experience as well. Wooden spokeshaves, and metal/wooden spokeshaves such as the Stanley Razor Edge spokeshave ....

https://s19.postimg.org/lw13x33dv/Stanley-spokeshave1_zpsfqxhig1x.jpg

... have a toe that angles down (around 6 or so degrees), and the user will angle the toe to either engage or disengage the wood. Tilting back engages and tilting forward disengages. (This is the same with the travisher I posted here recently).

By contrast, the modern metal shaves, such as the Stanley #151 or LN or Veritas versions of the Stanley, all have a coplanar toe-heel. The blade projects to determine the depth of cut. Below is a Veritas LA with the long toe - set up this way it will cut like a #151 as the toe is straight and not angled. Alongside it is a Stanley Razor Edge, which has the angled toe ...

https://s19.postimg.org/a6x494k4z/Stanley-spokeshave2_zpsm2m2yoj0.jpg

Phil, to get the Woodjoy to make flatter cuts, try angling the body rather than using it square on. This will additionally smooth the cut, reducing any tearout from the low cutting angle, but it will effectively lengthen the toe.

Regards from Cape Town

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

So Patrick, are you suggesting that a spokeshave is sorta like an iPhone...if I give it to a 7 year old, they can show me how it works? :D

My issue is that I can get a good clean shaving...I’m just not consistent enough in holding it in a continuous plane. I get slight hills and valleys...much more so than with the 151.

The 85's sole is effectively only ~1/2" long (again, only the part in front of the mouth provides registration), so it's fundamentally harder to take a flat cut. If the workpiece is wide enough you can cancel some of that out by skewing the tool in alternating directions, to make the sole "longer" with respect to the undulations from the previous pass.

[Bob Glenn]

I use mostly the old antique shaves I've found in shops. Tuned up they work well. Another trick in addition to skewing the blade is to adjust the blade to take a heavier cut on one side narrowing to a thin cut at the other end of the blade. BTW, this only works on the bevel up blades with tangs. This works especially well when rounding spindles for chairs on the shave horse. That and a drawknife, my two favorite tools. Bob

[lowell holmes]

You reminded me that I have a LN wooden spoke shave that I need to find. Harvey miss-placed several tools. :(

[Mike Allen1010]

This is a really helpful thread for me. I'm confused about different "types" of spoke shaves (wood/metal bodies, 6 sole in front, sole in back, screw adjustment for blade depth vs. some kind of "tang" arrangement I don't understand etc.).


I would really like to be able to use spoke shaves more more effectively - to smooth the end grain of curved surfaces (like the edges of panels/horizontal drawer dividers in curved carcass etc.) Unfortunately, I have little experience and no knowledge about how to achieve those objectives.The only spoke shave I have is what I believe is a knock off of some kind of Stanley model that utilizes 2 threaded screws engaging the body of the spoke shave, indexed into slots in the blade to advance or retract the blade. Because this was my only spoke shave and I'm not smart enough to figure out what other types/models/manufacturers my better suit my needs, I bought a LV PM 11 and promptly broke it in half by overdoing the blade tension adjustment or something like that.


I welcome any advice or suggestions about best spoke shaves that would work for my objectives.


I'm more than happy to pay the freight for quality tool, however in this case I'd just not really exactly sure what that would be. Thanks in advance for your feedback and suggestions!


All the best, Mike

[Patrick Chase]

This is a really helpful thread for me. I'm confused about different "types" of spoke shaves (wood/metal bodies, 6 sole in front, sole in back, screw adjustment for blade depth vs. some kind of "tang" arrangement I don't understand etc.).

Like planes, shaves come in bevel-up (BU) and bevel-down (BD) varieties. Unlike BU planes, BU shaves ride entirely on their toes. The back of the iron has to be tilted a few degrees away from the work, or else it would have no clearance, so there is nothing in contact with the work behind the cutting edge. BD shaves have plane-like soles that extend both in front of and behind the iron.

BD shaves are almost always metal-bodied.

BU shaves come in wood and metal flavors.

Screw and tang adjustment are ways of holding and adjusting the iron in a BU shave. Traditional wooden BU shaves have 2 tangs sticking up from the iron, that are wedged into holes in the wooden stock. They are adjusted by tapping in to varying depths, sometimes with a limit screw so that you can just tap them in until they bottom out. See the adjustment instructions for Dave's Shaves (http://www.ncworkshops.com/sharpening_tips.html) for pictures of tanged irons with and without limit screws. The tangs themselves can also be replaced by screws, which is what WoodJoy does.



I would really like to be able to use spoke shaves more more effectively - to smooth the end grain of curved surfaces (like the edges of panels/horizontal drawer dividers in curved carcass etc.) Unfortunately, I have little experience and no knowledge about how to achieve those objectives.The only spoke shave I have is what I believe is a knock off of some kind of Stanley model that utilizes 2 threaded screws engaging the body of the spoke shave, indexed into slots in the blade to advance or retract the blade. Because this was my only spoke shave and I'm not smart enough to figure out what other types/models/manufacturers my better suit my needs, I bought a LV PM 11 and promptly broke it in half by overdoing the blade tension adjustment or something like that.

For end grain work I think you'd be best served by bevel-up shaves, whether wood or metal. The WoodJoys might be good options, or the LV bevel-up (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=44834&cat=51&ap=1) (if that's not the one you have and broke already). LN only seems to sell bevel-down shaves. As noted above the bevel-up shaves are a little tricky because they're only supported by their toes, but it's worth the investment to figure out the various tricks to use them.

IMO you should reach out to LV about the broken shave and tell them what happened. I'd bet they'll get it back in working order for a lot less than replacement cost even if it was your error.

EDIT: FWIW I have all of the LV BD shaves, the LV low-angle, the WoodJoy Master, and the WoodJoy "cigar" shave. For convex or mildly concave end grain work as you describe I'd probably go with the WoodJoy Master or the LV low-angle depending on what toe geometry I want (they each offer two options via reversible toes). As I've said in other threads my 7 y/o son was able to use the LV low-angle and the WoodJoy Master reasonably well with some practice and instruction, so they're not *that* difficult. The cigar shave is a different matter :-).

[steven c newman]

Actually, I have 3 spokeshaves.....a Stanley No. 64 and a pair of clones.....One of which was by S. Smith & Sons. Easy to use, easy to sharpen. Straight sole....I can tap a handle on the bench to adjust depth of cut....nothing fancy, nor complicated...

[Phil Mueller]

Hi Mike, I found the design you currently own, has been the “easiest” to learn with. As Patrick pointed out, its sole is both front and back of the iron and gives more registration on the work for a beginner user like me. I watched a lot of youtube videos on how to tune it and sharpen it. Once it was reasonably set up and sharp, and once I was able to dial in a pretty fine shaving, I found it a lot of fun to work with. It will do well on gentle curves both long and end grain.

Now there is a video or two on tuning up a spokeshave that suggests there are some Stanley 151 (the design you have) clones that are pure junk and not worth messing with. So keep in mind, an unsuccessful attempt to use yours may not be a user issue, but simply a shave that just won’t perform well no matter what.

When first using my 151, the biggest issue was chatter. I found that after a good tuning, a finer setting, and a good sharp edge solved that issue. Took a bit of time to work through and a lot of chewed up cut offs, but well worth the effort.

Feeling somewhat confident with that shave, I purchased a BU shave from woodjoy. As Patrick also indicates, they are a different learning curve. Probably better for end grain than the BD versions, but only having the front sole to register, has resulted in uneven surfaces for me. It’s not the tool, it’s my learning curve. Set fine, it takes a nice shaving in end grain, but I just need more time with it.

So from my experience (other’s will vary), I would see if yours can be tuned first. If you find it just can’t be made to work well, I’d look at either the LV flat sole BD version, or look for a used Stanley 151 from someone reputable like Patrick Leach. Thinking back if I had started with a BU version, I think I would have become quite frustrated. The 151, in my opinion is just a great shave to help understand the basics first.

[Jerry Olexa]

When a spokeshave is working well, it is a pleasure indeed to use. And a spokeshave will make you find grain direction right now, won't it? Agreed on the P Sellers sharpening paddle. I only have the Stanley shave with a center adjusting screw (can't ever remember the numbers on all of the Stanley tools) and have wanted to try the ones with adjustment screws on the sides. If you have any input on the differences and preferences, I would appreciate to hear of them.

Fully agree, David with your first statement: When a spokeshave is working well, it is a pleasure indeed to use.

[Mike Holbrook]

I have quite a few spokeshaves. My favorite is WoodJoy’s Livingstone shave. The blade can be adjusted up & down and forward and backward. The result is a shave that can make fine or coarse shavings with minimal adjustment.

I also like my Big Shave from WoodJoy. This shave has a 5” blade and wide mouth. It can do the work of a small drawknife with a little more predictable results. The cost is flexibility in terms of the number of thngs it can do well.