woodpeckers ultra-shear chisels

[tom lucas]

Anyone try? I'd like to hear about them.

[John Keeton]

Don’t know anything about them except that they are not cheap!

[tom lucas]

I haven't found a "cheap" quality turning knife yet. I'm new to turning. I don't want to spend too much time sharpening (and learning how to do that too) and all the costs that go with that. At this point, I want to spend my time turning. I've turned a few things with a cheap set of HSS tools that I have. But, of course, they don't hold an edge long. I'm a pretty quick learner and was "successful" enough turning a few things with them. But, I hate sharpening. I'm more about making turned wood things first. As I get more comfortable, perhaps come back around to HSS tools. Woodpeckers has always had good quality things. I like the 45 degree flats and beefiness of these tools. And they claim the sharpest carbide available (of course they do). I can't find any user reviews of these though. Maybe they are too new? Or is that no one wants to buy them?

[Roger Chandler]

Having to replace carbide cutters [they do get dull!] is high dollar outlay on top of high dollar tools initial cost, and in my considered opinion will not give one as good results over all, as traditional tools. To me, sharpening is an intregal part of turning, and one short changes themselves by not learning to sharpen, and quality gouges will outlast any carbide tool, save money by a wide margin in the long run, and adds skill sets about how to achieve fine cuts and less sanding on projects. Carbide tools are basically scrapers , and do have their place in the turning arsenal, and for those who just dabble in the turning craft are an option.....far from the best way to go in my opinion, but I’m a guy who enjoys how to learn all the cuts, and to sharpen all the tools.

[John Keeton]

Thomas, turning is close kin to woodworking with hand tools - planes, chisels, etc. Unfortunately, sharpening is the very first activity necessary for quality work. There is nothing wrong with the carbide tools, but sooner than you think you will want to expand your skills with some quality gouges. The money you spent on the carbides would go a long way toward those. Just a thought.

[Gary Baler]

Thomas,
You may have chosen the wrong pursuit if you don't to sharpen. It is an integral part of woodturning. You may want to find a club near you.

[tom lucas]

With much respect to you all, I've read and read about the pros and cons of carbide vs HSS, and all the stuff about learning to sharpen and how to make various cuts, etc. etc. I get it. A "real" turner knows how to sharpen and use every tool. I have far more energy and inclination that I do time. Eventually I'll have more time. I'll will get there.

I didn't post to debate this or my dispassion for sharpening (sorry I mentioned it). I'm looking for feedback on these carbide chisels wrt to other carbide cutters, handles, blade holders, etc. Woodpeckers holder is different that any other I've seen. And they claim the micro grain carbide cutters are new technology that produce good shear cuts when used on a 45 degree angle. Looking for someone that has actually used these and has enough experience with both types of cutters to assess what they do/don't do well.

I'll continue to practice with the cheap chisels I have while at the same time learning to appreciate what carbide might bring (if I buy a set). Everyone takes a different path to reach the same end.

[Marvin Hasenak]

If you want to try the carbide, I would recommend checking Capt Eddie's YouTube site. He sells carbide "kits" that consist of the cutter and the shaft, and you turn a handle. They are the least expensive ones on the market, and there are thousands of satisfied customers. But I am not one of them, I have tried several brands, and have donated all of them to people that are kess fortunate than I am.

[tom lucas]

If you want to try the carbide, I would recommend checking Capt Eddie's YouTube site. He sells carbide "kits" that consist of the cutter and the shaft, and you turn a handle. They are the least expensive ones on the market, and there are thousands of satisfied customers. But I am not one of them, I have tried several brands, and have donated all of them to people that are kess fortunate than I am.

thanks for the tip. I'll check that out.

[Jason Ost]

Aren't carbide cutters all pretty similar?

[tom lucas]

Aren't carbide cutters all pretty similar?
not according to woodpeckers. That is what I'm trying to assess, their micro grain cutters. And the question is also about the blade holder, in combination with their cutters. Is a Sorby gouge the same as a cheap Chinese gouge? I suspect not all carbides are equal either. Like Gillette razor blades compared to walmart's brand. The are both razor blades, but not the same.

[John K Jordan]

not according to woodpeckers. That is what I'm trying to assess, their micro grain cutters. And the question is also about the blade holder, in combination with their cutters. Is a Sorby gouge the same as a cheap Chinese gouge? I suspect not all carbides are equal either. Like Gillette razor blades compared to walmart's brand. The are both razor blades, but not the same.

It would be easy to buy their inserts and make your own tools. Then you can try them yourself and decide.

[Jack Lemley]

Thomas,

I am looking at the Woodpecker chisels as well. I like the angled flat side that should make it easier to do a shear cut. Like you I have too little time to spend it sharpening lathe chisels (yes I and pretty fair at sharpening all manner of tools) but I am not fond of it and if I can short circuit that part of it it would be easier to work in some turning. Please keep me posted on your findings if you don't mind

Jack Lemley

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I’m sorry but I just don’t get the aversion to sharpening. I, like many others use a wolverine jig for gouges - it takes all of 30 seconds to sharpen a gouge. Literally. The initial learning curve, if you’ve got an average attention span is about an hour. I’ll only sharpen once or twice while roughing for an entire day. finish turning means sharpening more often, but come on, is the project you’re working on important enough to spend less than a total of maybe 5 minutes refreshing an edge? Sometimes stepping away allows you to see what you’re actually doing from a new perspective.

So, just what’s the big hurry?

[John C Cox]

My experience with carbide is that the profile of the carbide edge is critical to the cut you get. If you want to try out carbide insert tooling - then go ahead and do it. Lots of people use it. I would recommend getting 1 holder and then a at least one of every single insert out there on the market. Try them out. See which ones you like the best for which wood and and for which task.

Conventional steel cutting inserts used in machine shops with basically a 90 degree face last about forever - but they tend to cut pretty rough and require a lot of pressure... It's like using a dull tool... But it stays at that level of semi-sharp dullness forever.... These would probably do Ok for stock bulk removal tasks on hard non-fiberous woods and interrupted stock removal cuts. I doubt you will be happy with them for finish work. And they are a train wreck on stringy, spongey fiberous wood like Spruce.

The cupped cutting tip inserts do a lot better on wood - but they are very fragile... The more heavily cupped - the better they cut wood.. And the more fragile they are.. And once they lose that super sharp edge on the cupped tip - you are back to cutting forever with a semi-dull tool that cuts a bit better than the run of the mill square or diamond inserts... These are not good for interrupted cuts. And you have to watch them for stock removal... Chip the edge or crack it and that's that. The other danger is that because of the cupped cutting edge - they can pull chips if you aren't careful.

What you will probably find is that you like some specific inserts for stock removal and then others for closing in on the final shape before sanding...

Unfortunately - for smooth finishes - you will find yourself honing your carbide inserts on a diamond stone to polish up the edges to get decent finish cuts. Even then - they still chip...

I feel your pain on sharpening. I sharpen my chisels a whole lot more now that I have a Worksharp....

With the prices of tool inserts - I think I would price out a high quality electric sharpener with jigs and stops set up to handle HSS tools... I hear the Sorby unit and Tormek are both good. Once set up - you could resharpen in 30 seconds and be back on the lathe in no time..

[John K Jordan]

...The other danger is that because of the cupped cutting edge - they can pull chips if you aren't careful. ...

I'm curious what you mean by "pull chips." I'm not familiar with that term.

JKJ

[Bill Blasic]

If you insist on carbide I suggest you look at Hunter Tool Systems. You cut with these tools not scrape. The new Viceroy tools are really nice.

[Jack Lemley]

Jeffrey,

Your post seems to me to be on the edge of condescending. But, assuming that is not your intent, my answer to your question is actually encompassed in my post above.

Thanks
Jack


I’m sorry but I just don’t get the aversion to sharpening. I, like many others use a wolverine jig for gouges - it takes all of 30 seconds to sharpen a gouge. Literally. The initial learning curve, if you’ve got an average attention span is about an hour. I’ll only sharpen once or twice while roughing for an entire day. finish turning means sharpening more often, but come on, is the project you’re working on important enough to spend less than a total of maybe 5 minutes refreshing an edge? Sometimes stepping away allows you to see what you’re actually doing from a new perspective.

So, just what’s the big hurry?

[tom lucas]

I would really like to keep the focus on the woodpeckers blades and blade holders in comparison to others. The general merits of carbide vs. HSS isn't really the question here except how does the WP blade perform when compared to HSS in light of how other carbide performs. In other words, how good is it in shearing actions vs HSS vs other carbide? Can you really get a super smooth final cut with the WPs? Is the angled blade holder really an advantage? Or does it detract from the tool? It is well understood that carbide excels at roughing. But, assuming the WP shears as good as they claim, how is it at roughing? Is that somehow compromised by the better shearing features? Let's please stay away from the sharpening debate. That's for someone else's thread.

Someone must own or at least have tried the WPs, or similar styles from another mfg? Please comment if you have.

[John C Cox]

I'm curious what you mean by "pull chips." I'm not familiar with that term.

JKJ

They can grab and yank a chunk out of your work... But that's a danger any time you are cutting and not scraping on a lathe...

[John C Cox]

So looking more closely at those woodpecker tools and inserts - they look more like a very high grade of CPM HSS than "carbide".... That's not a bad thing - as I think some of the new super CPM HSS flavors would do really well as lathe insert tooling. For example - typical carbides are not good on impact strength of the edges... They are amazing for pure wear resistance, but chip fairly easily.... And so often tend to be ground at fairly blunt angles....

From the ad copy - it certainly sounds like they have thought through many of the problems...

Certainly give them a shot... I would start off buying a couple different inserts and try them out on your existing tool handles.

Also - as I said before, be prepared to hone them on an extra fine diamond stone to keep them sharp - especially for a finish cut... I was doing this on carbide inserts and it made them cut a LOT better....

[Harold Balzonia]

Carbide is a lot like cement. There are different grades for different applications. "Micro-Grain" is marketing speak for the most part. "Micro" isn't exactly a technical term in this instance.

nano-grain is the best grade for woodturning applications however it will never get as sharp as HSS just by its physical nature.

understanding the basic properties of carbide will help you make a decision on what cutters to get. Whether or not you want to pay for a bar that is shaped with a built in 45 degree flat is up to you. Most turners are capable of rotating a tool to provide that angle whether they have a round bar, rectangular bar, or square bar.

Here's a great overview on carbide:

https://www.destinytool.com/carbide-substrate.html

If you just want nano-carbide inserts to try, Kilian tool (out of Canada) sells just the cutters. $10 Canadian. (Which is like $2000 Uhmurican, I think....)

hope this helps....

[Mike Turner]

Thomas, turning is close kin to woodworking with hand tools - planes, chisels, etc. Unfortunately, sharpening is the very first activity necessary for quality work. There is nothing wrong with the carbide tools, but sooner than you think you will want to expand your skills with some quality gouges. The money you spent on the carbides would go a long way toward those. Just a thought.

John you are absolutely right.I started turning with the carbide tools.They work good ...nothing wrong with them but the traditional tools work better and are cheaper in the long run.I still have my carbides but more and more I am going to the gouges ,skews,etc.

[John K Jordan]

I'm curious what you mean by "pull chips." I'm not familiar with that term. JKJ

They can grab and yank a chunk out of your work... But that's a danger any time you are cutting and not scraping on a lathe...

By "grab and yank a chunk" do you mean a "catch" or are you referring to the tendencies of some tools to pull long fibers out of certain woods? (different from typical tearout)

If you mean a catch, that indicates a serious need to work on tool presentation and control.
Tearout, either what I call "micro" tearout or the larger, calls for taking lighter cuts with sharper tools and/or stabilizing soft or brittle wood.
I do see longer fibers pulled out of side grain on spindles on certain types of wood with razor sharp skews, even with very light cuts. I go to a different tool in this case but not a scraper.

The only carbide tools I use these days are the cupped cutters on the Hunter tools. Extremely sharp. I've never had any grabbing and yanking so that doesn't seem like an inherent danger with a cupped cutter. Maybe the cutters Mike Hunter uses are sharper than the type you are referring to. The small Hercules is my favorite, the second from the top in these photos:

375400 375401

The small Hunter cutters are 6mm in diameter.

JKJ

[John C Cox]

I would really like to keep the focus on the woodpeckers blades and blade holders in comparison to others. The general merits of carbide vs. HSS isn't really the question here except how does the WP blade perform when compared to HSS in light of how other carbide performs. In other words, how good is it in shearing actions vs HSS vs other carbide? Can you really get a super smooth final cut with the WPs? Is the angled blade holder really an advantage? Or does it detract from the tool? It is well understood that carbide excels at roughing. But, assuming the WP shears as good as they claim, how is it at roughing? Is that somehow compromised by the better shearing features? Let's please stay away from the sharpening debate. That's for someone else's thread.

Someone must own or at least have tried the WPs, or similar styles from another mfg? Please comment if you have.

Thomas.
From the answers - I think it's pretty clear nobody here has tried them out......

As you are - I am now curious myself. They look like a good enough idea... As I said in my earlier post - they sure look a lot like a CPM HSS tooling insert - which would explain how they can get the fine edge life and sharp tool geometry without problems crumbling and chipping.

How about buying a few of the inserts ans trying them out on an existing handle - then posting us a review here..

The inserts look like they run $6-20 each.. So not a huge $$$ outlay compared to buying a full set of the handles.

I would especially be interested in finish cuts out of the box vs honed on extra-fine diamond stone.

[Jason Edwards]

I don't own, but have used, the Ultra-Shear tools from Woodpeckers. While I'm a traditionalist with no carbide tools, I will say I thought they were WAY BETTER than the scraper type carbide tools. Finish is much more like a nicely sharpened gouge than the scraper tools will give you.

Comparisons to standard scraper type tools just aren't valid in this case. Nicely made handle and shank too. So if you're going to use carbide tools, I'd recommend them.

[tom lucas]

Thanks for letting me know you'll be at the show, and for the further clarifications on the tools. I wasn't planning on going to the show this year. Last year it wasn't worth the cost, but might change my mind.

[tom lucas]

I don't own, but have used, the Ultra-Shear tools from Woodpeckers. While I'm a traditionalist with no carbide tools, I will say I thought they were WAY BETTER than the scraper type carbide tools. Finish is much more like a nicely sharpened gouge than the scraper tools will give you.

Comparisons to standard scraper type tools just aren't valid in this case. Nicely made handle and shank too. So if you're going to use carbide tools, I'd recommend them.

Thank you for this input!

[Glenn C Roberts]

Harold, What is "Uhmurican"?

[Marvin Hasenak]

I’m sorry but I just don’t get the aversion to sharpening. I, like many others use a wolverine jig for gouges - it takes all of 30 seconds to sharpen a gouge. Literally. The initial learning curve, if you’ve got an average attention span is about an hour. I’ll only sharpen once or twice while roughing for an entire day. finish turning means sharpening more often, but come on, is the project you’re working on important enough to spend less than a total of maybe 5 minutes refreshing an edge? Sometimes stepping away allows you to see what you’re actually doing from a new perspective. So, just what’s the big hurry?

I have to agree. I started turning in woodshop in teh early 1960's. We were taught to use a grinder, basically freehand. I did not really learn how to sharpen until a few years later, a machinist showed me how to sharpen on a belt sander. Years later, along came the Wolverine, as most turners, I had to have one. After awhile I returned to the belt sander. Then cane the carbide, I had to try them, again I wasted my money. My belt sander is within 2 feet of my lathe, a simple twist of the body and flip of the switch and I am sharpening my chisels.

[Harold Balzonia]

Harold, What is "Uhmurican"?

Its phonetic.... if you sound it out, it should become clearer... it's a self-effacing reference to our country... I was just being flippant...

[Glenn C Roberts]

I gathered that.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Jeffrey, Your post seems to me to be on the edge of condescending...

Jack - I certainly wasn’t intending to be condescending. I use Hunter carbide tools for hollowing where they truly excel. I’m curious: the rationale for most carbide tools according to the marketing is two-fold - they allow a turner to skip the learning curve of tradititional tools and virtually eliminate the need to sharpen. I don’t fully understand, there’s still a learning curve, it may be a little shorter, but still there. Turning with traditional tools isn’t rocket science, it is a craft. Most can pickup the concept of bevel supported cuts in a few minutes with a good explanation, the rest is mostly tool presentation and muscle memory that involves some practice. Sharpening is no different - using a jig it is literally a less than 30 second operation.
Full disclosure - I’ve spent nearly 40 years in the business of helping companies market their products (mostly industrial). I’m well attuned to interpreting marketing speak, and have seen many solutions to problems that may not actually exist hit the marketplace. That said, there’s always room for new ideas and tools to make entry a little easier. Markets do have a way of sorting out the solutions from the rest.
I have no desire to hijack this thread, and merely pointed out that shortening an already short learning curve may not be the best rationale for investing in a new tool.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I'll toss in my $0.02. I took a look at the WP site, and noted that all(?) of the tools seem to have the tips oriented on a square shaft on an edge. VERY nice tools. I'm now contemplating the diamond full sharp tool. Personally, when I do use a carbide, its flat on the rest, where a square shaft on a corner makes it difficult to maintain it "perfectly" flat. When sheer scraping, I hold my scrapers at a much higher angle than 45, again making the square edge not at the correct angle. This however would hold true in any case. Major point, when roughing with a carbide, I hold it flat. I would prefer to have the tool not make me maintain the tool flat, just another stressor I would not like. Oh, those of you using cast tool rests, the square edge will make dent marks. I made a carbide tool on a square shaft on edge. Was not entirely pleased as you may have noticed. Good luck in your search!

[John K Jordan]

....shortening an already short learning curve may not be the best rationale for investing in a new tool.

Sharpening can be so quick and easy - once you know how. I'm always surprised by those who haven't learned to sharpen, some even after years of turning. I've had some visit for a turning lesson and found what they needed instead was a sharpening lesson. The old adage is "if you can't sharpen, you can't turn." I'll change that to if you can't sharpen you may be handicapped in what and how well you turn. I'm all for anything, even a cheap carbide tool, that gets people started in woodturning as long as they realize advancement to excellence might be hindered without moving towards well-sharpened tools. In fact I know of one advanced turning course you cannot even get into unless you are self-sufficient at sharpening.

That said, if anyone living near or driving through east TN is interested in help with sharpening or using "conventional" turning tools, please stop in. The cost is your company and a good story. :)

JKJ

[Mike Nathal]

Some more thoughts:
1. If you try a carbide tool, like Woodpeckers or any other, make sure you take into account the "newness" of the carbide. My Easywood tool, when used right out of the box, was quite sharp and produced a very good surface. But after a few uses, it was 'good but not great.' I still use it occasionally when I am against a troublesome piece of wood, but I use it for roughing and not finishing. Hand sharpening on a diamond hone helps but I never got back the original sharpness.
2. Seems to me that a DIY approach using a round shaft would allow you to put a shear angle on the Woodpecker insert quite easily.
3. To me the bar is set by the Hunter tools. I can get a very nice surface with his original tools although I haven't used the Osprey, Hercules types. So the Woodpeckers tools would need to beat them, not other scraping type tools, to attract me as a buyer. (with the exception of the diamond sharp point insert, which does look cool. )

[tom lucas]

I'll toss in my $0.02. I took a look at the WP site, and noted that all(?) of the tools seem to have the tips oriented on a square shaft on an edge. VERY nice tools. I'm now contemplating the diamond full sharp tool. Personally, when I do use a carbide, its flat on the rest, where a square shaft on a corner makes it difficult to maintain it "perfectly" flat. When sheer scraping, I hold my scrapers at a much higher angle than 45, again making the square edge not at the correct angle. This however would hold true in any case. Major point, when roughing with a carbide, I hold it flat. I would prefer to have the tool not make me maintain the tool flat, just another stressor I would not like. Oh, those of you using cast tool rests, the square edge will make dent marks. I made a carbide tool on a square shaft on edge. Was not entirely pleased as you may have noticed. Good luck in your search!

I believe the bottom of the tool where it would sit on the rest is flat. So I don't think you are ever resting the tool on the edge of the shaft. The end of the tools look to be flats on bottom, 45, and 90, at least for the square chisel anyway.

[tom lucas]

Jack - I certainly wasn’t intending to be condescending. I use Hunter carbide tools for hollowing where they truly excel. I’m curious: the rationale for most carbide tools according to the marketing is two-fold - they allow a turner to skip the learning curve of tradititional tools and virtually eliminate the need to sharpen. I don’t fully understand, there’s still a learning curve, it may be a little shorter, but still there. Turning with traditional tools isn’t rocket science, it is a craft. Most can pickup the concept of bevel supported cuts in a few minutes with a good explanation, the rest is mostly tool presentation and muscle memory that involves some practice. Sharpening is no different - using a jig it is literally a less than 30 second operation.
Full disclosure - I’ve spent nearly 40 years in the business of helping companies market their products (mostly industrial). I’m well attuned to interpreting marketing speak, and have seen many solutions to problems that may not actually exist hit the marketplace. That said, there’s always room for new ideas and tools to make entry a little easier. Markets do have a way of sorting out the solutions from the rest.
I have no desire to hijack this thread, and merely pointed out that shortening an already short learning curve may not be the best rationale for investing in a new tool.

Well, since we can't resist discussing sharpening, let me throw in a novices two cents that reflects my situation:

I bought an old craftsman lathe that's about 25 years old. By quality standards it's not great. OK maybe. It is all cast, digital variable speed with a long bed (~42" I think). Good enough to learn on and it only cost me $75. It came with a cheap set of brand new chinese knives I got the guy to throw in with the deal. I bought it because of the price, not because I was anxious to get into turning. I am a hobbyist woodworker that does pretty good, but I don't really like turned legs all that much, or spindles in general. Now I'd like to make a few bowls and maybe some wood machine gadget thingies. So I thought I'd give it try.

I looked into sharpening needs, and a good grinder with CBN wheels and a one-way tool sharpening system would cost me about $600. Hmm.... I'm I ready to make that kind of commitment to turning? Now I suspect the chinese tools would just lead to frustrations. So, do I layout another $300 - $400 for some basic beginner chisels. Now I'm in for $1000.

So I hand sharpened the chinese chisels and turned some practice spindles, and one little bowl. The bowl came out quite nice, I think for a beginner. I quickly picked up some basic cutting angles and it seemed pretty easy, hardly any catches, even when roughing (though I was scared to death of thing at first, roughing is pretty violent!). But I know the tools are not sharpened like they should be, and it may not be possible to ever get them all that sharp, at least not for very long. But at least I got a taste for it. And like it enough to continue working at it.

My next thought was if I had sharp chisels I'd be more effective and would get more satisfaction from this. A carbide set seemed like a mimimal investment to get there, and a good carbide set would be wanted in the future anyway should I really decide to take the plunge. I don't want to buy nice HSS tools and then hack them up because I don't have a good sharpening system, and I don't want to yet invest $600 in a sharpening station to only find out I don't really like this sport. So it seemed like there were 2 options: the carbides or $1000 for the full blown HSS setup.

Now after I gain more experience I may find I want get into this in a bigger, higher quality way. Then I'd make the plunge for the HSS setup, and like get a real lathe too. I do appreciate the value of good tools. Anyway, that's my story and rationale. BTW, I bought the Woodpeckers. I haven't gotten them yet. But when I do I will post back with better photos (can't believe how little info WP has on them), and my opinion on how they work (for what that's worth).

[tom lucas]

Some more thoughts:
1. If you try a carbide tool, like Woodpeckers or any other, make sure you take into account the "newness" of the carbide. My Easywood tool, when used right out of the box, was quite sharp and produced a very good surface. But after a few uses, it was 'good but not great.' I still use it occasionally when I am against a troublesome piece of wood, but I use it for roughing and not finishing. Hand sharpening on a diamond hone helps but I never got back the original sharpness.
2. Seems to me that a DIY approach using a round shaft would allow you to put a shear angle on the Woodpecker insert quite easily.
3. To me the bar is set by the Hunter tools. I can get a very nice surface with his original tools although I haven't used the Osprey, Hercules types. So the Woodpeckers tools would need to beat them, not other scraping type tools, to attract me as a buyer. (with the exception of the diamond sharp point insert, which does look cool. )


I do like the little hunter cutter blade. Looks pretty handy for tight inside curves. One or more of these will be on my futures list.

[Matt Schrum]

...

I looked into sharpening needs, and a good grinder with CBN wheels and a one-way tool sharpening system would cost me about $600.

While CBN wheels (as low as $100-150 for a single wheel) and a fancy, low speed, 8" grinder is wonderful to work with, it's far from necessary. A basic 6" grinder with a couple of standard aluminum oxide wheels (which you can probably find for $50 used locally) is more than adequate to get started and dip your toes in the water. While I did splurge on CBN wheels for my grinding set up (don't worry, they're on a 30 year old 6" grinder-- I didn't splurge THAT much), I still free hand it. The Wolverine (and similar) sharpening jigs look great, but I've found I can do plenty with a steady hand and touch up a gouge in 20 seconds flat. I don't like grinding/sharpening any more than the next guy, but turning with a freshly sharpened gouge is so much more pleasant, easier, and less work than forcing a dull gouge to do the job.

Long story short, sharpening can be as cheap and simple as you make it-- or as complex and expensive as your budget allows.

Chipping in on the carbide discussion-- I have not used the Woodpecker tools, but I would agree with a few others-- 90%+ of my carbide tool use is during roughing. I find I can leave a better surface these days with other tools in my arsenal.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Well, since we can't resist discussing sharpening,

Thomas - I started about 18 years ago with a Craftsman lathe with reeves drive and a set of Buck Bros tools that had already seen better days. Found an old, very cheap 6” grinder left in my studio by a client. figured out that sharp bad tools are much easier to use than dull ones. The first real pull from the vortex came when Woodcraft started selling an 8” low speed grinder with decent AO wheels for $79.
The pull of the vortex then became an unresistable force. Please take care, and enjoy the ride. Your local club may offer some mentors that can help in avoiding the worst of the bumps.

[tom lucas]

Thanks Jeff,

I have a grinder in my garage (300 feet from my woodshop) that I use for metal work. I also have a wet grinder, but I can't use it in the winter time (when I do most of my WW) because my shop is not heated all the time and the wheel would likely split at the first hard freeze. I may get another cheap grinder and put it in the woodshop so I can practice on those cheap tools. But I don't have the steadiest of hands these days. We'll see. The carbides let me show results quickly, which motivates me more than having to fuss with those cheap chisels all the time. A little of both and maybe the vortex will suck me in too. :)


Thomas - I started about 18 years ago with a Craftsman lathe with reeves drive and a set of Buck Bros tools that had already seen better days. Found an old, very cheap 6” grinder left in my studio by a client. figured out that sharp bad tools are much easier to use than dull ones. The first real pull from the vortex came when Woodcraft started selling an 8” low speed grinder with decent AO wheels for $79.
The pull of the vortex then became an unresistable force. Please take care, and enjoy the ride. Your local club may offer some mentors that can help in avoiding the worst of the bumps.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Thomas - enjoy the ride. A large part of the original appeal of turning for me was the ability to actually complete a project on the same day it was started. I actually didn’t discover this for a little while. The allure of near-instant gratification is, for me, a large part of the vortex. Enjoy the ride...

[John K Jordan]

I do like the little hunter cutter blade. Looks pretty handy for tight inside curves. One or more of these will be on my futures list.

Thomas,

If you get a Hunter tool, one thing I recommend is to round and polish the heel of the "bevel", such as evident this picture,
375581
also on the tool at the top of the left picture in this thread. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?260916-woodpeckers-ultra-shear-chisels&p=2761819#post2761819

This allows it to glide nicely into a cove or convex cut without the heel getting in the way or burnishing a mark. I've done this to most of my hunter tools now. (This is the same thing I do to spindle and bowl gouges)

Also note that the tools in the picture in the thread (the two Hercules, the small Osprey, and a Clewes Mate) all have the bit angled a little from the horizontal. This makes it much easier to use in the bevel-rubbing mode like a gouge than those without the angle. With these tools I can usually get a cut so clean on small turnings (with good wood) that they need no coarser than 400 or even finer sand paper. Works well in the hardest wood you can imagine as well as acrylic.

All of the angle-bit tools can also be used in the scraper mode, holding the tool flat on the rest. The two Hercules tools, the Clewes, and the new Viceroy all have flats on the bottom with slightly radiused corners making this a bit easier; the Ospreys are built on a round shaft.

Which one to buy? If you mostly want to use it for large work the large Hercules might be a good choice. But I generally I prefer the smaller Hercules, for things from very small to large. The Osprey is similar but I don't like it as well as the Hercules. I don't much care for the Clewes Mate but beginners seem to like it for the clean scraping mode and the wide flat. If working on deep vessels a different tool might be as good or better, can't remember the name but it's a large tool with a stout taper on the working end. There are also swan neck versions for getting up under the lip on a vessel or closed form. For hollowing small things Mike's set of small straight and crooked end tools are what I reach although I have other tools that will work. Mark StLeger said he prefers these also.

If you belong to a club I suspect there are members that will let you try the tools before you buy. You could come here (I think I have all or most of them) but it's a bit of a drive!

All these are without handles but a handle is easy to make. When ordering, you might also get an extra cutter. The cutters are extremely sharp but one touch to another steel object will make tiny chips. The cutters can be repeatedly rotated to a fresh edge. I make cutter protectors from clear flexible plastic tubing that fits tightly over the ends of the tool - I make the tubing a bit long, soften the end with a heat gun, then squeeze it together with some pliers.

John Lucas has some videos on using some of the Hunter tools.

I don't know if you saw it but this message tells about a novice student of mine who used the small Hunter Hercules to turn most of a fairly challenging small platter:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?260941-Her-3rd-experience-at-a-lathe
The curves in this piece are not tight but the tool sure does the trick. I generally alternate between the Hercules and bowl and spindle gouges since each has their own strengths (and I don't want to get "rusty" on either!)

JKJ

[Michael Perez chavez]

Hello, I have a question did you finally buy Woodpeckers ultra shear gouges? Now I’m in the same situation and looks like there’s no much information about it yet.
greetings.

[tom lucas]

Hello, I have a question did you finally buy Woodpeckers ultra shear gouges? Now I’m in the same situation and looks like there’s no much information about it yet.
greetings.

I bought 3 full size woodpecker ultra shear tools. I don't really care for any of them. They are certainly high quality, but I've since turned to traditional tools. Mine are just collecting dust mostly. I will occasionally use the diamond point tool for really fine line details. But the d-way tear drop tool produces cleaner cuts and is virtually impossible to get a catch. The only carbides I use are Hunter hollowing tools. Those use a much smaller cutter than the WP's and so aren't so "catchy". I'd sell my WPs, if anyone wants them.

[Keegan Shields]

I have a set of the WP full sized carbide tools and like them. I primarily make furniture and chairs, so while I'm working on my turning technique with HSS, there can be long lengths of time between turning where I seem to forget everything.

The carbide tools are great for turning a quick set of drawer pulls or some round shape I'm looking to make. Fast, not much technique to remember.

I haven't successfully used the "shear" feature but the tools fill a need for me right now.

Try them out - if you don't like them, then resell them for 90% of the cost.

[Michael Perez chavez]

Thank you so much. I’m just starting and planning with my wife to buy a lathe and maybe 2or 3 gouges. The first on is the Hunter osprey #2
the second we were thinking on the Ncwoodturning round shank diamond point ($40) but we also wonder if the WP worth the extra money.
I also was attracted by the WP shearing features and cut technology, but my wife doesn’t love WP.

[Jim Davenport]

I bought one several years ago, on sale at Woodcraft.
I just recently switched the cutter with an easy wood negative rake one. works great for wild grain.
That said I prefer HSS cutters. A wolverine jig set up has a fairly easy learning curve.

[Michael Perez chavez]

THank you so much , my wife and I make characters with different types of wood but they take long about 4 or 6 weeks each.
so we plan to do small things faster to sell.
I like WP my concern is if that the shat that is triangle shape could be uncomfortable.
then also wonder if they worth the extra $50 over the Ncwoodturning round shaft diamond cut.

[Michael Perez chavez]

Thank you. I totally agree with using HSS cutters. The carbide ones are just for our beginning.