Shop Build

[Mark Blatter]

Seems to be the year for new shops getting built. I started mine a few months ago and thought I would share some pics. It will be 26' x 38' with 12' walls. I started off planning on a foundation / footings build, but the cost was more than double what I had anticipated. Went back to my engineer and had change the design to a monolithic slab with thickened perimeter. He ended up with 24" deep sides that were supposed to be 12" thick. By the time the concrete guys gut done with the excavation, the edges ranged from 24" to 30" and around 18" thick. I was happy with it as I suspect it will survive an earthquake of up to 9.0. I also wanted to do 24" on center for the walls, but was told the 7/16" OSB had to be nailed every 16" to comply with the wind requirements. City requires all buildings to survive 150 mph wind speeds and going 24" on center would have only provided protection up to 142 mph winds. I am told the highest winds ever recorded here are around 110 mph. Oh well.

I am doing in floor radiant heating so in the photos you will see the tubing I installed. After sitting for over 90 days, the lines are still pressurized to 100 psi. I had them at 60, but the inspector required them at 100 before he would pass it. The end of the building with the garage door (10' x 10') will also have a car port for parking trailers, loading in bad weather, etc. The overhang will be an extra 16' with 6" x 6" posts supporting the roof on that end.

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[Ken Fitzgerald]

I am envious! I wanted in-the-floor radiant heating but didn't want to run water to new shop I built. The city put some heavy restrictions on it so I went with a gas furnace. It works well but would much rather have the radiant heat.

Enjoy the process!

[Mark Blatter]

Thanks Ken. The city here is funny. Heavy wind restrictions, won't allow but one meter per address, yet gave me no issues with the heating. I am not running water to the building as I didn't want to pay the cost of digging into the street. I will fill the system using a hose and top off as needed. As a closed loop, it shouldn't be a big issue, I hope.

As you will see from the photos, I did not insulate under the outer edges of the slab. The concrete guy's engineer wouldn't let me even put down the thin bubble insulation. I did put insulation around the perimeter after the slab was poured and before it was backfilled. I tried to be bids from 6 or 7 concrete companies, but could only get one to actually respond. They have been so busy around here that unless you were giving them regular work, just weren't interested. The company that did the pour is owned by a neighbor, so he was kind of obligated. However, the day they poured it was supposed to start at 9 a.m. That got pushed to noon, then to 3. They showed up at 3, moved a wall that was placed wrong, the pumper showed up at 3:30 and the first truck at 4 p.m. This was the first part of October, so the sun went down around 6:30 and full dark by 7. That much concrete, with insulation and a water vapor under it, then add in the temps, and they didn't finish the slab until 2:00 a.m. I knew it was going to take them until late so I invested $20 in pizza for the crew. Under the circumstances, they did a nice job.

The framing photo was taken yesterday and is where I am at present. About half the trusses are in place and I hope to set the remaining ones on Tuesday. I will get the posts for the beams on the carport up on Monday. Slow going when you do it all yourself. I hope to have it finished by March, but my wife asks March of what year?

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[Martin Wasner]

I hope you backed the pressure off the pex before pouring the floor. You don't want the pipe to pull away from the concrete once the pressure is lower.

[Mike Heidrick]

I am envious! I wanted in-the-floor radiant heating but didn't want to run water to new shop I built. The city put some heavy restrictions on it so I went with a gas furnace. It works well but would much rather have the radiant heat.

Enjoy the process!

In floor radiant heat does not require running water to the shop. It is sealed self contained pressurized setup and does not require filling much at all and you only do what very little is necessary during a yearly maintenance job.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Mike,

What is needed and what a city inspection department requires can be two different things.

The city of Lewiston required I either have a water source in the shop or safety devices to prevent the boiler (a water heater was my plan) from continuing to try to heat water in the event of a loss of water or catastrophic leak. The contractor I contacted locally quoted me prices in the range of $18,000 to provide such a system. In as much as my wife delayed her retirement to finance the $16,000 for the empty shell of the shop to be built by a contactor, I elected to forgo radiant heat. Two years later my wife had a 75,000 hanging gas heater installed in my shop. Even paying for running a gas line to the shop, digging the ditch, purchasing the furnace and installing it (all done by the seller), she paid a little over $2500 IIRC.

[Jim Becker]

Mark, that's going to be a very nice space!

[Randy Henry]

Mark, looks like a very nice shop. Even though they are challenging, they are rewarding.

Martin, on the pressure in the pex..I kept mine under pressure the entire time, and to this day, it's still holding the same 50 psi. I'm not putting the boiler in until my inside is finished. I was told by several folks to keep it under pressure during the pour, to keep the concrete from collapsing the pex.

[Mark Blatter]

Mark, looks like a very nice shop. Even though they are challenging, they are rewarding.

Martin, on the pressure in the pex..I kept mine under pressure the entire time, and to this day, it's still holding the same 50 psi. I'm not putting the boiler in until my inside is finished. I was told by several folks to keep it under pressure during the pour, to keep the concrete from collapsing the pex.

And you have to keep it under pressure while pouring so if any pipes are punctured, it is immediately obvious. I spent the pour with a bucket of repair parts on hand so I could jump in and effect an immediate repair if needed.

Ken - I am planning on using a water heater as well. I have not asked, nor will I, if any provisions are required in the case of a loss of coolant. Better not to bring the subject up.

[Martin Wasner]

Martin, on the pressure in the pex..I kept mine under pressure the entire time, and to this day, it's still holding the same 50 psi. I'm not putting the boiler in until my inside is finished. I was told by several folks to keep it under pressure during the pour, to keep the concrete from collapsing the pex.

You want pressure on it while pouring to spot problems if the cement heads knick a pipe, but you don't want much more pressure than what the boiler will produce which is about 30 pounds. A hole becomes pretty obvious pretty quickly.

You're probably okay at 50, you just don't want the pipe to expand, pour, then have it shrink and pull away from the concrete at the lower operating pressure of the boiler.

I researched the crap out of it before pouring my floor, which was decent sized and had twenty four loops.

[Jim Andrew]

Used to set up similar pours, and would use a board vertically on edge in the footing with a board to hold the sand out, and would pour the footing first, then lift the inside form out then finish the pour, eliminating that huge thick footing eating up yards of concrete.

[Mark Blatter]

Used to set up similar pours, and would use a board vertically on edge in the footing with a board to hold the sand out, and would pour the footing first, then lift the inside form out then finish the pour, eliminating that huge thick footing eating up yards of concrete.


In this case, the engineer called for the thickened edge instead of an actual footing. He originally called for a 42" foundation wall on top of footings, but the cost was way outside what I had planned. He agreed with this arrangement thinking that even though we are not below the frost line, the weight of the thickened edge will alleviate frost heaves, or if there is any raising, the entire slab will go up at the same time. Me, I think it will be bomb proof and I am hoping able to survive a strong earthquake. I figure my house will come apart if/when we get hit with a 7.5 or better, but hoping the shop stays good. The family will just move into it for as long as we need.

[Marshall Harrison]

Looks like a great start to a great shop Mark.
I added a room to my house several years ago. Did most of the work myself and played general contractor on everything that I subbed out. The concrete guys were the worst. They never seemed to show up on time and most of them showed up drunk. Still, everything worked out fine.
Congrats on the new shop.

[Kurt Cady]

Great looking shop.

You probably won't like this...but now is the time to remove or relocate those trees. Trees can and will cause crazy amounts damage. Rule of thumb is to keep the building outside of the full grown trees' drip line (leaf canopy). The one on the left is already violating that rule.

I am am a bit confused about how you got around not digging below the frost line. Can you elaborate?

[Jim Andrew]

Substitute the word perimeter for the word footing in my post and maybe it will make sense to you.

[Mark Blatter]

Great looking shop.

You probably won't like this...but now is the time to remove or relocate those trees. Trees can and will cause crazy amounts damage. Rule of thumb is to keep the building outside of the full grown trees' drip line (leaf canopy). The one on the left is already violating that rule.

I am am a bit confused about how you got around not digging below the frost line. Can you elaborate?

Sorry it has taken me so long to answer your question Kurt. The engineer decided that while 24" is not the actual frost line, it is deep enough, and big enough, being 24" deep x 15" thick (or actually thicker) and if it was lifted, the entire pad would be lifted at the same time. As I mentioned earlier, I would have perferred doing concrete walls / footings with a center slab. The cost was over double though.

I would have liked to remove the trees, but they provide too much shade and I just couldn't pull them out. I will be cutting them back some, but will leave them for now.

[Mark Blatter]

Thought I would update where my build is at. Here are four photos of how it sits today. I was able to get it wrapped with tyvek today, the felt is on the roof and I will be putting on the shingles this next week. Takes forever when you are doing it yourself.

You will notice that the fourth photo, of the inside of the shop, shows a bunch of stuff. I just get the shop waterproof (mostly) and it fills up with my daughter's stuff. By the time I get ready to move my tools in, there worn't be any room for them. Go figure.

If was fun lifting up the beams, but actually went easier than I thought it would. Just took three of us a couple of hours to lift and set them.


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[Andrew Seemann]

The thickened footing around the perimeter for a slab on grade is standard for a free floating slab. They don't go below the frost line. The thickened edges are to support and distribute the weight of the walls. If you have any center posts, they need have the slab thickened underneath as well. I think the idea is that the slab may move a little bit from frost, but as a unit and not enough to matter. They are common in Minnesota for detached garages and outbuildings, even though the frost line here is 42". The key is that they can't be attached to anything with a frost footing or they might heave away.

[Mike Heidrick]

Nice looking garage. How is you radiant heat setup going?

[Kurt Cady]

I was mostly referring to those little trees. They will grow to be big trees, now is the time to move them.

[Ted Calver]

I was mostly referring to those little trees. They will grow to be big trees, now is the time to move them.

Agree. Looks like a couple of 2-3" caliper maples?. Should be able to move them easily, although with the majority of roots in the top 12-18"s they might not have any affect on that thick perimeter concrete. Maybe trench in a root barrier and force any roots to go parallel to the building.

[Mark Blatter]

Nice looking garage. How is you radiant heat setup going?

Haven't touched it since putting it in. Trying to get the electrical in over the next two weeks. A neighbor, who is an electrician, is going to install all the wires and the box for me. I will trade out some cabinets his wife wants, so good deal for both of us. Once I get power in and the inspection done, I will work on finishing the radiant heat. Since summer is close, despite the snow that is currently falling, I won't worry about running the heat, other than testing, until next fall. Still have lots of insulation to put in too.

As for the small trees, yes they maples, Canadian maples. Supposed to be the exact same, but one grows narrow and tall, the other almost like a bush. Good idea to move them back some.

[Jon Snider]

Looks very nice Mark. An exciting time for sure.

What is the height of your ceiling and what’s the roof pitch, 6/12?

Thx

jon

[Mark Blatter]

The ceiling on the inside shop is a hair over 12' so I didn't have to cut the wall material. The roof is a 5/12 pitch. I enjoy looking at steeper roofs, but hate getting on them so kept it at 5/12.

I just finished the roof, with the exception of putting the ridge cap shingles on the ridge vent. It got too dark so will complete that tomorrow unless it rains as predicted. I was concerned about the seams in the ridge vent, as mine don't actually overlap, but had an epiphany. I covered the seams up with the same sealing tape I used for the windows, a really sticky 14" wide petroleum based tape. Should make sure that there is never a leak on the seams.

Picked up the siding yesterday and will start once we have some dry weather. Supposed to rain the next few days, so will likely be Monday. Then it is electrical and insulation, plus the ceiling. Going with painted OSB on the walls and ceiling. Then the soffits (not looking forward to the soffits on the gabled ends) and overhead garage door. Then move in and start working on some jobs I have been putting off.

[Jon Snider]

Thanks for reply Mark and good luck. Sorry about the timing of the rain but we Coloradoans are happy to see this storm on the way and hope it brings us needed moisture.

Best of luck. Keep sending updates and will follow.

Jon

[Mark Blatter]

Getting the siding on. Finally decided to go with vinyl siding. Thought about Hardi Board, but didn't want to paint it. Once the siding is done, can get to work on the interior. Electrical this next week hopefully.

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[Scott Buehler]

Wow, looking great! I would do vinyl siding but our covenants won't allow it unfortunately. So I'm getting hardi and 30" of rock around the bottom...not looking forward to all the work. You're getting close!

[Jon Snider]

Mark, is your main shop space 38 x 26 or does that include the carport too?

[Mark Blatter]

Mark, is your main shop space 38 x 26 or does that include the carport too?

No, the 26x38 is the enclosed space. The car port is approximately 26x16. I wanted it mainly for parking trailers, but will also use it for working in the shade on certain projects and it will be nice to load / unload trailers when the weather is bad. I have also been thinking about buying older camp trailers and rebuilding them. That space under the car port can hold up to a 24' trailer with no problem so I can work on them.