Bought a brand new 20W Fiber Laser and feel completely lost - help?

[Alex Smith23]

Hi everybody. Long time listener, first time caller.

I just took ownership of a 20W Chinese JPT fiber laser. I've owned a CNC hobby machine in the past so I didn't fear the learning curve with the laser would be too different. I've been playing around with the laser for two nights, but feel completely lost. This machine came with some parameters from the manufacturer (see attached pics), but I can't seem to get the machine to mark my 304 stainless steel consistently. For a little bit I was able to get some markings on my 304, but this evening I can't. The laser seems to move around and mark, but nothing appears. :confused:

So far I've:


Made sure the distance between the galvo and material is 295mm (distance it tells me on the galvo)
Aligned the two red dots (really part of #1)
Set Ezcad parameters to what the manufacturer gave me


Surely I must be missing something. At this point I'm seeking a mentor to help me get started and would even be willing to pay somebody to help me out. Any takers?

[Gary Hair]

The measurement on the lens isn’t the distance to the material. Draw a small square and place it directly in the center of the drawing page. Check “continuous”, and set power to 100, speed to 300 (metric), and frequency to 30. Start with your distance at 295 and click run. Move the galvo head down until you get the brightest flash with the tallest sparks. You may have to move it quite a ways down to get there, but keep going until you get this result. Click stop and measure the distance - that is your focus distance.

[Bill George]

Surely I must be missing something. At this point I'm seeking a mentor to help me get started and would even be willing to pay somebody to help me out. Any takers?

What you can do for Free and I did if Before I even ordered mine was spend a few days/weeks Searching and Reading on here. Lot faster than posting a Question and waiting for if and when someone came on with the Answer.

[Kev Williams]

This should get you in the ballpark on focus distance---

According to your first photo, you have a 175mm lens. I have a 160, and have my focus dialed in perfect.

So what I did was draw a 2" (50.8mm) square, and measured the red box with my dial calipers, measured dead to rights 2".

So I went into my parameters and changed my 160mm number to 175mm. Just doing this makes the machine recalculate what 2" should be with a 175mm lens. I had to lower my table nearly an inch to get the square to again measure 2". Then I took my digital 12" calipers and measure from the edge of the lens collar to the top of the table.

I got 279mm, or 10.984", whichever works best for you :)

Cut yourself a piece of something- small dia dowel rod, some scrap Rowmark- to exactly 10.984" and use it as an intial focus tool. Use the COLLAR of the lens, NOT the glass as the reference point.

This should put you very close. Gary's suggestion will get you fine tuned :) - When you ARE fine tuned, tweak your focus tool.

The red-light focus is okay, but needs occasional adjusting and isn't that close anyway. A physical ruler of some sort is always more accurate.

[Jacob John]

Welcome to the world of fibers! We're all guinea pigs in this game. I have a stack of ruined test materials that could likely be enough to build a stainless steel car.

[John Lifer]

For my Ray fine, they gave me a measurement for my two lenses focal lengths, it was from item up to the separation of the head sections. Would be higher than the lens. But it works and this seems to be your issue. Yes, go searching and read and read some more. The manual is good too.

[Alex Smith23]

The measurement on the lens isn’t the distance to the material. Draw a small square and place it directly in the center of the drawing page. Check “continuous”, and set power to 100, speed to 300 (metric), and frequency to 30. Start with your distance at 295 and click run. Move the galvo head down until you get the brightest flash with the tallest sparks. You may have to move it quite a ways down to get there, but keep going until you get this result. Click stop and measure the distance - that is your focus distance.

Gary, Thank you for the quick response. I did as you suggested, but to no avail. It's as if the power on my laser isn't strong enough to make a mark. Are there some other settings that I may have missed?

[Neville Stewart]

https://youtu.be/o_jg02Zgfm4

As you see, this is the hazard version of what Gary & Kev told you but try it and then re-read G&Ks posts.

[Gary Hair]

https://youtu.be/o_jg02Zgfm4

As you see, this is the hazard version of what Gary & Kev told you but try it and then re-read G&Ks posts.. That video shows exactly what I suggest but I would use a small (.25") square instead of text and I'd use stainless instead of aluminum.

[Bill George]

I suggest contacting your vender, my Ray Fine machine came with the files already set up for both my lens, and a nice stainless metric ruler and measurements noted in the set up instructions. My measurement index is from the center line of the galvo housing. Easy, Peasy.

[Neville Stewart]

When you find your focus, make yourself an isosceles triangle that the close corner side rests on the lens edge. Better than a single point contact.

[Alex Smith23]

https://youtu.be/o_jg02Zgfm4

As you see, this is the hazard version of what Gary & Kev told you but try it and then re-read G&Ks posts.

This video is more or less exactly what I've tried along with setting speed to 11.81 inches (Gary said 300mm, but I changed my preferences to inches), power to 100, and frequency to 30. I changed the height of the galvo head from as high as it would go to as low as it would go to no avail. Tried marking on 304.

[Kev Williams]

I've always thought engraving the same thing over and over to be counter productive to finding good focus, in regular use I notice different spark and light characteristics going over same place more than once. So I went into Corel and drew up a 2" spiral and imported it in...
375032
run at 200 or 300 speed, it takes a long time to finish, and nothing is engraved twice until it does, always a 'virgin' burn...

And IMO using 100% power to focus-test is also counter-productive, learned that from ramp testing. Rather, I use very low power, which when in focus, the beam will just barely make a mark. It's MUCH easier to find or notice THE mark than trying to discern the brightest part of a mark or the brightest flash while the mark is being made. For my C02 machines I ramp test at 5% power, and just draw a straight line. The only mark that shows is less than 1/4" long, I take my measurement from the middle of that 1/4". For the fiber I started at 20% power and located the focus range the beam would mark, then lowered the power and re-tested until I got the distance dialed in to within around .010" or so.

[John Lifer]

One thing I suspect is your focal distance should be well over 295mm from surface to case divide with this lens. Taking ratio of my two lens, I think it should be 375mm. And with JPT fiber, you shouldn't have a q pulse showing if set up like my machine. I'd be asking for full configuration settings.

Now one other thing I remember about my setup is that I had to reset the external focus red dot. Mine had been bumped and once I got into focus (burning best spot) I reset it. Don't depend on it being in exact right position.

[Kev Williams]

with all due respect, a 375mm focus distance doesn't work, that's over 14.6" inches-- the distance between my lens housing and the bottom of the machine is only 15-1/2"-- add in the height of the scissor table that came mounted and a 375mm focus distance would be well below the top of the table when full down. I have a black line drawn across the front of my machine at my focus distance (quick visual reference), and that line is 5.46"/139mm above the bottom of the machine. I'm using a 160 lens, Alex is using a 175, my focus stick is exactly 9.747"-- going to 14.6" is a 50% increase in focus distance for only a 15mm lens jump, that can't be right--

Alex- if you're getting zero marking at any distance, you have something else going on, could be the laser's actually not firing for some reason...

[Scott Shepherd]

This video is more or less exactly what I've tried along with setting speed to 11.81 inches (Gary said 300mm, but I changed my preferences to inches), power to 100, and frequency to 30. I changed the height of the galvo head from as high as it would go to as low as it would go to no avail. Tried marking on 304.

You aren't going to get a mark on stainless at 12 ips and 100 power on stainless at 30KHz. Want to see marks on stainless, where it's actually cutting into the stainless, drop down to 20KHz and 3 ips and you should start seeing some fireworks when you get it in focus. 12 ips is a little fast for what you are trying to do.

I use English too. I don't understand why everyone leaves them machines in metric. It's just one check box and it's all in English.

[Alex Smith23]

<p>

You aren&#39;t going to get a mark on stainless at 12 ips and 100 power on stainless at 30KHz. Want to see marks on stainless, where it&#39;s actually cutting into the stainless, drop down to 20KHz and 3 ips and you should start seeing some fireworks when you get it in focus. 12 ips is a little fast for what you are trying to do. I use English too. I don&#39;t understand why everyone leaves them machines in metric. It&#39;s just one check box and it&#39;s all in English. Scott, I tried as you suggested and still didn&#39;t get a mark on 304. I attached a picture of my settings. I lowered the galvo from the highest it could go to the lowest (just a few mm away from the material). I can shoot a video of what I did if that helps.</p>

[Bill George]

375064

100 Lens 253 mm

150 Lens 326 mm

Ok here is a picture of my fiber laser and focus ruler, notice Ray Fine marked on the head the exact measurement in mm for the lens I am using. The measurement is from the work piece to the center Hoz. line on the Galvo head. Settings, 100% power, 20 kz Freq. and as slow as you want to go around the rectangle or whatever you have for a work design. The two laser dots, one is internal the other is external and YOU need to set so both are one When YOU get the proper focus. You do not need stainless it could be any metal that it will mark, carbon steel will work fine and then adjust as needed for each job. All you want to see is sparks!!

Otherwise contact your vender for support. China does not have Sundays off, maybe the New Year?

Scott, ALL my machines are in mm, I even have a tape measure in mm. Its just easier that way!! Happy New Year.

[Kev Williams]

To (hopefully) help with the confusion, my focus distances are, as I noted above, based on the bottom of the lens collar, NOT the bottom or centerline of the scanhead:
375073375074

There's several reasons I use the collar as a reference point- for one, I can stand up my focus stick :)
--another reason, because my scissor table isn't connected to the machine, by using the lens collar I can insure the work I'm engraving is parallel TO the lens collar by checking focus at different points around the collar. Can't do that with the red dots ;) --

Speaking of the red dots, I have mine aligned so they DON'T meet together- I have the dots arranged so that when focused they're about a mm apart horizontally but aligned vertically. So as long as they're dead straight across from each other I'm good.

[Scott Shepherd]

To me, it sounds like this is a bigger issue. Sounds like it's not a focus issue and the laser simply isn't firing at all. The fact that he cannot produce any marks at any focus level tells me that his laser isn't firing at all. I suspect it could be as simple as a switch that's not turned on, or a cable that's not plugged in, or possibly even something in the software that's not set right, but there doesn't seem to be anything but the red dot.

On a different note, what 2 red dots are you all talking about? 2 red dots? Now I'm confused.

[Bill George]

One dot is internal and is like the Red dot on our usual lasers, just to get the center. The other dot is external and adjusted to the location needed. Usually once you get your focus perfect, you align the external dot to line up perfectly with internal dot. So when your in correct focus height both are together. This will need tweaking per job of course.

[Scott Shepherd]

One dot is internal and is like the Red dot on our usual lasers, just to get the center. The other dot is external and adjusted to the location needed. Usually once you get your focus perfect, you align the external dot to line up perfectly with internal dot. So when your in correct focus height both are together. This will need tweaking per job of course.

Ahh, must be a feature of your system. My heat gun has that feature but my laser doesn't :)

[John Lifer]

I agree Kev, that is why I said Focus DISTANCE, not Focal length..... I tried looking on line for a 175mm x175mm lens and I couldn't get a true focal length listed off vendor sites. I expect he's got something not set up right in the parameters of the machine.
No telling from this distance :)

[Kev Williams]

....I use English too. I don't understand why everyone leaves them machines in metric. It's just one check box and it's all in English.

not ALL in English I'm afraid, at least for me- I can change EZcad to work on-screen in inches, but the machine sees the numbers as millimeters; a 5" circle onscreen gets me a 5mm circle engraved...

[Scott Shepherd]

not ALL in English I'm afraid, at least for me- I can change EZcad to work on-screen in inches, but the machine sees the numbers as millimeters; a 5" circle onscreen gets me a 5mm circle engraved...

Then you have something set wrong. A 5" circle on screen engraves a 5" circle on my machine. That's why I don't understand why people who have other lasers and are working in English suddenly are doing everything in MM's. I don't have a problem with the metric system, but I don't understand why you'd want to work on two worlds when you can work in one or the other.

[Kev Williams]

...On a different note, what 2 red dots are you all talking about? 2 red dots? Now I'm confused.
These are the 2 red dots :)-

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--the dot on the right is the thru-the-lens dot, always stationary.

--the dot on the left comes from this red laser mounted on the front of the machine-
375111
-because it's firing on an angle, this dot always moves relative to the height of the table (or the work)...
These usually come set up from China to be in focus when the 2 dots converge, right on top of each other.
Me, I kept having to use a loupe to satisfy myself that the dots were in fact equal-
I found it much easier to move them apart, and align them across, so my first pic above depicts IN FOCUS...

These pics depict OUT of focus,
this one, part is too low...
375110

this one, part is too high...
375112

This is much easier for my eyes, and saves a step in not having to find the loupe! ;)

The 2-dot thing IS a good method of focusing--

[Scott Shepherd]

I can see where that would be helpful. I have a heat gun for applying wraps that has it. When the two dots align, you get an accurate temperature measurement of the surface.

[Alex Smith23]

Spoke with the manufacturer and they are requesting I send the laser back as it appears to be faulty. Will hopefully have an update within the next couple weeks when they send me a new laser and I get it installed. Thank you to everybody who's contributed so far!

[Kev Williams]

Then you have something set wrong. A 5" circle on screen engraves a 5" circle on my machine. That's why I don't understand why people who have other lasers and are working in English suddenly are doing everything in MM's. Could be I do... funny thing, if I set my 'wrench' icon (system) parameters to INCH, the rest of those parameters and the screen change to inch. But the F3 'configuration markcfg0' parameters DON'T change, everything is still in MM... BUT, running the same EZcad on this computer in DEMO mode, changing the system parameters changes EVERYTHING.

but then, my other Triumph's LaserSoft is strictly metric, so I'm getting used to it. But then, I cheat and keep an INCH=MM converter webpage open all the time :)

[Bill George]

Spoke with the manufacturer and they are requesting I send the laser back as it appears to be faulty. Will hopefully have an update within the next couple weeks when they send me a new laser and I get it installed. Thank you to everybody who's contributed so far!

Who is paying for the return shipping to China?

[Alex Smith23]

Who is paying for the return shipping to China?
They are paying for return shipping. About $200.

[matthew knott]

Are you just taking the laser part out and sending that back ? Or is the whole machine going back ? Very unusual to get a faulty laser , much more likely to be cabling or psu problem (but not impossible) ! I guess you will know when they send a new one and it still doesn’t work

[Alex Smith23]

Quick update. I received a brand new laser and board. I installed both and unfortunately got the same result -- no marks. UGH! Still at a loss of what else to try.

On an interesting note, there's a "test laser" button and if I enable it, I can see an ever so faint white dot on my 304 stainless and it leaves a very faint mark. I feel the laser is working, but perhaps a setting isn't right??

[John Lifer]

It still sounds like out of focus. Here is what I would do. Put a piece of scrap steel on table. Focus as best as you think is correct. Make note of height. Draw a circle in center of page, say an inch in diameter. Select power and put in 500speed, 100 percent power, and 20 frequently and say 20 cycles. Hatch it say 90degrees and. 03 really does not matter just have a hatch. Then start the fiber. Slowly turn focus wheel one direction till you get sparks or you run out of adjustment whereupon you go back down and start over moving the opposite direction. If you don't ever get sparks, (which is near focus) you have other issue..

[Kev Williams]

I'm wondering if the laser's 'nozzle' inside the machine is loose, and/or misaligned? First time I was in my machine I found one of the bracket screws loose. There's a 'tunnel' about 1/2" in diameter that the beam passes thru to hit the mirrors in the scan head. It wouldn't take much misalignment for the beam to hit the side of the tunnel. Pics of mine, the nozzle is held in place with a circular clamp. Laser fires thru the red laser and its transparent mirror assembly, from there thru the front face of the machine, thru the extension tube to the scanhead mirrors (2nd pic)--
376946376953

Note the hole in the extension isn't all that big. My best guess without pulling my covers is that the distance from the tip of the nozzle to the mirrors is around 9 inches (230mm)- might not sound like a lot but if the nozzle is loose or something is amiss with the red laser assy, the beam may be hitting a wall instead of the mirrors...

Just a guess, and assumes the laser IS firing...

[Alex Smith23]

It still sounds like out of focus. Here is what I would do. Put a piece of scrap steel on table. Focus as best as you think is correct. Make note of height. Draw a circle in center of page, say an inch in diameter. Select power and put in 500speed, 100 percent power, and 20 frequently and say 20 cycles. Hatch it say 90degrees and. 03 really does not matter just have a hatch. Then start the fiber. Slowly turn focus wheel one direction till you get sparks or you run out of adjustment whereupon you go back down and start over moving the opposite direction. If you don't ever get sparks, (which is near focus) you have other issue..

I have tried this to no avail.

[Alex Smith23]

I'm wondering if the laser's 'nozzle' inside the machine is loose, and/or misaligned? First time I was in my machine I found one of the bracket screws loose. There's a 'tunnel' about 1/2" in diameter that the beam passes thru to hit the mirrors in the scan head. It wouldn't take much misalignment for the beam to hit the side of the tunnel. Pics of mine, the nozzle is held in place with a circular clamp. Laser fires thru the red laser and its transparent mirror assembly, from there thru the front face of the machine, thru the extension tube to the scanhead mirrors (2nd pic)--
376946376953

Note the hole in the extension isn't all that big. My best guess without pulling my covers is that the distance from the tip of the nozzle to the mirrors is around 9 inches (230mm)- might not sound like a lot but if the nozzle is loose or something is amiss with the red laser assy, the beam may be hitting a wall instead of the mirrors...

Just a guess, and assumes the laser IS firing...

Good idea, but I think mine is set up correct. All of the screws are tight. I just don't feel like the laser is firing and I find it hard to believe I've gotten two faulty lasers.

376969

[John Lifer]

You stated that you see a white mark..... It just didn't appear by itself. If focus and kevs suggestions don't fix, you must have something in your setup wrong....... Or you Did get two defective units, and I wouldn't bet on that.... Sorry, not easy to diagnose over forum.

[Kev Williams]

does the red laser track correctly? It should trace the same exact path the main laser does...

[Bill George]

So the entire old machine went back and you received a new one, and neither were checked at the factory for operation?? What brand is this machine?