Vise options for end of bench?

[Brandon Hanley]

I am getting ready to build a workbench from the Plans offered by Jay's Custom Creations on YouTube. I am planning to put a leg Vise on the front but I would also like to put some sort of Vice on the end. So far the 12 inch quick release Vise from Rockler looks like the best option to me being the amateur that I am. But the $200 price tag has me wondering if there are other similar options for less money but at this point I am wondering what options are even possible since the top will likely be 4 plus inches thick. I am guessing I will have to route a portion of the underside of the bench top out to get the Vise Jaws anywhere near lining up with the top of the bench.

I have also been considering the Shop Fox D4648 13-Inch Large Capacity Heavy-Duty Cabinet Makers Front Vise .it looks nearly identical except it doesn't have the quick release feature and it is half the price I'm not sure if it is worth paying double to have the quick release or not. I'm also wondering if it can even be used for what I want it looks like it can but they have it labeled as a front vise

I would have started on this project months ago but I just keep going in circles trying to decide which Vise setup to use and how to arrange the dog holes.

[David Eisenhauer]

You might look into the Eclipse and Yost vises (both on Amazon I believe) that others are using. The Eclipse has been around for a while and some folks have recently tried the Yost out (less cost I believe?) and like what they see so far. If you run a search of the SMC posts, some info should come up on both. I have always used a quick release type face vise and, while I have no experience doing without the quick release feature, have a hard time imagining having to do without. My leg vise is not quick release and I don't use it unless I need the game it brings to a particular situation. Others, of course, may do very well without.

[glenn bradley]

Dad has the 12" Rockler vise hardware. After a year of lack-luster performance we finally just wired the quick release mechanism closed. The vise works much better now. Your satisfaction with your choice will depend on what you are going to use it for. A front vise in the tail position has worked well for me.

374927

When I wanted greater capacity I moved to a twin screw. If you are looking for the more traditional use of a wagon vise at the tail, the Rockler and the Shop Fox will fall short due to racking. My old QR vises in front and tail position were both the same and the racking eventually pushed me to the twin screw. I do not use the tail vise as a "single dog mover" enough to be satisfied with that format. My current twin screws in front and tail positions are just an upgraded morph from what I was previously doing.

374926

[Tom Hartranft]

Like Glenn B, I also have a twin screw vice at the end of my workbench. Coupled with the Pattern Maker's Vice on the side of my bench, I've been happy with the two clamping options for my work. I also make good use of the bench dog holes/dogs for bench-top clamping. Couple of pics for illustration.

Tom

374964374963

[Ryan J Carpenter]

Brandon, I am curious to see what you end up with here. I am getting close to pulling the trigger in a quick release tail vice for a new workbench and my small shop is pushing me down the wagon vice road. My current winner is the veritas quick release tail vice mounted at 90 degrees for a wagon vice. I have retrofitted a few other mechanisms as tail vices in the past but always been a little disappointed but there are no shortage of screw options out there if you want to make something work or quite a few great off the shelf end vice options.

[Brian Tymchak]

I am wondering what options are even possible since the top will likely be 4 plus inches thick. I am guessing I will have to route a portion of the underside of the bench top out to get the Vise Jaws anywhere near lining up with the top of the bench.

Not sure I understand your comment here. Assuming I'm looking at the correct vice on Rocklers site, I would guess you cut the jaws to whatever dimensions your application would require.

http://www.rockler.com/12-quick-release-end-vise?sid=V9146&country=US&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsqLSBRCmARIsAL4Pa9Rv3sD3HMh4PeH6FS1e wOuDCBRghgNWbubxonYxl84nXAZPgz5w2SIaArsLEALw_wcB

[Brandon Hanley]

I have never built a vise before but I would have thought that the taller the jaw would be the the more likely it would be to have an effect kind of like when you try to clamp something all the way on one side of a vise and the Vise twists instead of clamping evenly . But like I said I have never built a voice before so that may be completely wrong

I figured that was why some places list that they are made for a certain thickness bench top like the shop Fox 13 inch front Vise I've been looking at says it is for a 1.5 inch thick bench top?

I have considered a twin-screw vise using the same bench screws as I was planning to use for the leg vise from Yost but I wasn't sure how that would work out with bench dogs

[Brandon Hanley]

Like Glenn B, I also have a twin screw vice at the end of my workbench. Coupled with the Pattern Maker's Vice on the side of my bench, I've been happy with the two clamping options for my work. I also make good use of the bench dog holes/dogs for bench-top clamping. Couple of pics for illustration.

Tom

374964374963

Do you see any reason that a very thick top would be an issue with that Lee Valley twin screw vise that you used? I know all the reviews and information I have found on that vise caution straying away from the instructions at all costs.

[Tom Bain]

I have never built a vise before but I would have thought that the taller the jaw would be the the more likely it would be to have an effect kind of like when you try to clamp something all the way on one side of a vise and the Vise twists instead of clamping evenly . But like I said I have never built a voice before so that may be completely wrong

I figured that was why some places list that they are made for a certain thickness bench top like the shop Fox 13 inch front Vise I've been looking at says it is for a 1.5 inch thick bench top?

I have considered a twin-screw vise using the same bench screws as I was planning to use for the leg vise from Yost but I wasn't sure how that would work out with bench dogs

Brandon — The twin screw will work fine with a thick top. The jaws on my mine I believe are around 6”. The instructions will recommend that you put a slight taper on the vice jaws from top to bottom to prevent the kind of issue I believe you are referring to. My biggest issue with the twin screw is how slow it is to open and close. It’s a very nice vise, don’t get me wrong, and has a lot of nice features/capabilities, it’s just slow.

[Brian Tymchak]

Brandon — The twin screw will work fine with a thick top. The jaws on my mine I believe are around 6”. The instructions will recommend that you put a slight taper on the vice jaws from top to bottom to prevent the kind of issue I believe you are referring to. My biggest issue with the twin screw is how slow it is to open and close. It’s a very nice vise, don’t get me wrong, and has a lot of nice features/capabilities, it’s just slow.

Yes it is slow. I have a quick release vice in the tail position and use that 95% of the time. I bought another quick release vice to replace the twin screw I have in the front position, but have not installed it yet as I will have to figure out how to position it wrt the leg. The twin screw straddles the leg, the quick release can not.

[Frankie Hunt]

So far the 12 inch quick release Vise from Rockler looks like the best option to me being the amateur that I am. But the $200 price tag has me wondering if there are other similar options for less money

Quick release is definitely worth the investment! You will likely have this vise for a very long time and use it a lot. Get the quick release. Save money somewhere else.

[glenn bradley]

Brandon - The value of a quick release vise will vary on how you hold your work. The first pic in post #3 shows my old bench with a quick release vise at both positions. As my methods morphed I stopped using the vise so much to grab stuff as to operate dogs for grabbing stuff. With good dog hole positions on the new bench I rarely have to move the vise jaws much so the loss of the QR feature was a non-issue.

Having said that, (there's always a catch, eh?) I will contradict myself and say that at least a couple of times a year I threaten to add an additional QR vice for dynamic holding tasks of that sort. Its the age old answer to so many questions; what is 'best' for you "depends" on so many things.

What made the twin screw solution "best" for me was that my main complaint about my work holding was having to deal with racking. I used stepped blocks and shims like so:

376191376192376193

These are very workable solutions. I just found myself using them so much I decided to change. The original plan was for a twin screw front vise with some sort of QR at the tail but, I couldn't commit. I built the new bench leaving the tail position design open to the three vises I couldn't decide on. Once I'd run the twin screw at the front for some time I went ahead with one at the tail as well. Your Mileage Will Vary :D

[Tom Hartranft]

Brandon,

Ref ... "Any issues with a thick top using the twin screw Veritas vise?"

My bench top is 2-1/4 inches thick maple. I put a 5" high maple skirt around the edges. My maple twin screw vice ends are 7" high and the twin screw threaded in/out rods are vertically centered on the ends at 3-1/2 inches height. With this setup, the Veritas ~1-1/8" diameter threaded in/out twin screw rods clear the underside of the bench by ~1/2". I believe it'd be best to center your twin screw threaded in/out screw rods vertically at the mid-height of whatever you use as your vice ends.

So, to answer your question, if your twin screw vice ends are 7" high, you'd need to hog out a substantial channel on the underside of a 4" thick bench for your twin screw threaded rods so the rods could move in/out without contacting the bench underside. To avoid having to hog out channels underneath your bench, you'd need to make the height of your twin screw vice ends commensurately higher. You may not want to have your vice ends that high?? Some combination of hogging out along with higher vice ends may be your compromise solution to using a twin screw vice.

Tom

[Randy Heinemann]

If you haven't made a decision on vise hardware by now . . . I learned from experience that buying the cheapest vise hardware has its problems. I bought the least expensive hardware at Woodcraft and saved a lot of money on the hardware. I used it to install a vise that extends along one entire 30" end of my bench. The concept is a good one for what I use it for. I drilled dog holes parallel to each other and dog holes in the wood jaws to allow me to clamp boards on the bench top without using vertical clamps. It works great when the hardware doesn't fail. The "nut" which makes the quick release feature work has fallen of onto the floor about a half dozen times. It can be reinstalled but will eventually work itself loose and fall lout again.

I would recommend either the twin screw vise or the quick release front vise (which could be installed with long wood jaws across the end of the bench). If I redo the vise, I will most likely buy the Quick Release Front Vise. I have never heard of anyone being dissatisfied with the twin screw vise, but it's a little more complicated to install. You just have to make sure that, when making your bench, you build it to fit whatever hardware you buy, so it's best to decide on the hardware first.

For me, cheap isn't always best and that was certainly true with vise hardware.

[Brandon Hanley]

Tom,
That's kind of what I was thinking. I figured I could use a router with an edge guide but that makes me nervous with the reviews that seem to all say your doomed to failure if you stray from the directions. I tend to overthink things so i don't do well with coloring outside the lines.

Randy,
I didn't mean to imply that I was only interested in cheap, but rather that the fancy $400+ videos weren't an option. Currently I'm open to suggestions. What I'm looking for in the vise is usefulness and versatility over convenience but easy to install with a thick top would easily sway my choice. Also consider this is the first vice to put on the bench with plans to add others as needed.

I'm currently considering;

Veritas twin screw

Leg vise made w/ yost screw

Rockler QR end vise. I'm thinking this is a new version since all the others were recently on clearance recently

[Frederick Skelly]

It's not what you asked, but here's a different idea on work holding to be aware of - forgo the vise altogether and use holdfasts. I use a pair of these with a variety of fixtures and they work well for me. Grammercy holdfasts (https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/item/MS-HOLDFAST.XX/Holdfasts_by_Gramercy_Tools).

According to the website "The holdfast is designed for 3/4" hole in a workbench top of a 1 3/4" thick or thicker. 6 1/2" reach. Maximum clamping 7 1/4" in a 2" thick benchtop." You are already going to drill dog holes, you could try it and add the vise later if you decide you want one after all.

It's a different way of working - more of a Neanderthal/traditional approach, but I use it more often than my single screw QR vise. If this might be of interest to you (or anyone else) there's plenty of info on our Neander forum and across the web on working without a vise. And there are many different brands of holdfasts - these just happen to work for me.

Hope it helps.

Fred

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Brandon

In years past I used Record quick releases vises. I use my bench a great deal as I predominantly work with handtools. I built a new bench about 5 years ago, a Roubo with leg- and wagon vises, and have not missed the quick release facility for one second.

The leg vise is one I built myself: wooden screw, and then added the AYS chain drive (I test drove it for Jim Ritter. My review is here (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AYSLegViseChainAdjuster.html)).

The write up of the leg vise installation is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Whatsonmybench.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/AYSLegViseChainAdjuster_html_673377d5.jpg


This clearly does not have a quick release! :) The way around this is with a low tpi. Mine is 2 tpi, as I recall. This moves the screw rapidly, unlike the steel screws that on a typical quick release vise. They move about 8 times slower.

A leg vise excells in holding long panels for planing ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_34b3515c.jpg

The end vise is a Benchcrafted wagon vise ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/OhSoclose_html_m66fa0015.jpg

This is superb. It was the major expense for the bench, as I do not regret it one bit. The reason I went for was I needed a compact vise that would not dominate the bench top - I have a small work space.

The wagon vise excels at holding work ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/BuildingTheDrawers_html_6bb3c0f9.jpg

Similarly, the end vise is not a quick release. It s completely unnecessary when the bench has dog holes and dogs.

Bench ...

https://s19.postimg.org/3uingsfwz/6a-_bench.jpg

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Frederick Skelly]

Dang it Derek, your "shop furniture" is nicer than the furniture in my living room!
What a gorgeous bench!

Fred

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Fred. I do not know how you can tell ... just added a picture of the bench.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[glenn bradley]

Tom,
That's kind of what I was thinking. I figured I could use a router with an edge guide but that makes me nervous with the reviews that seem to all say your doomed to failure if you stray from the directions. I tend to overthink things so i don't do well with coloring outside the lines.

My top is 3" thick, jaws are 7" tall and about 2-1/2" thick. Underside looks like so:

376275

For my previous bench (also 3" thick) I just buried the rear jaw of the vise into the skirt of the bench.

376274

Maybe this will give you some ideas.

[Randy Heinemann]

Tom,
That's kind of what I was thinking. I figured I could use a router with an edge guide but that makes me nervous with the reviews that seem to all say your doomed to failure if you stray from the directions. I tend to overthink things so i don't do well with coloring outside the lines.

Randy,
I didn't mean to imply that I was only interested in cheap, but rather that the fancy $400+ videos weren't an option. Currently I'm open to suggestions. What I'm looking for in the vise is usefulness and versatility over convenience but easy to install with a thick top would easily sway my choice. Also consider this is the first vice to put on the bench with plans to add others as needed.

I'm currently considering;

Veritas twin screw

Leg vise made w/ yost screw

Rockler QR end vise. I'm thinking this is a new version since all the others were recently on clearance recently

I doubt you'd go wrong with the Veritas Twin Screw, but I hesitated because it appears a little tricky to install, depending on the particular bench it's being installed on; my bench especially.

As for the Rockler, I looked at that as a replacement but it seemed to be the same design I already have, although it seemed better quality and better fit and finish. Not wanting to replace the vise with another of the same design only to find out it's no better, wasn't a good choice. Other than that, I can't say anything about experience with the Rockler.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I have the Veritas end vice on my bench, it's a great vice, just slow as others have pointed out.

376485376486

Regards, Rod.