New Rikon 10-324 vs 2002 Laguna LT16 bandsaws

[Randolph Bates]

Hello All,
New here.

I have a General 490 bandsaw with a 6" resaw height. I'm a hobby woodworker with some experience. I make native american flutes, knife handles and have done a couple slab tables recently. I reclaim downed trees that have interesting grain and resaw smaller pieces on my bandsaw, but 6 inch height is not enough. I have some beautiful spalted maple I want to use for the base of a burl slab table I am doing but I need a deeper resaw ability.

I have my eye on 2 different bandsaws that I think will fit my needs...but I am having a hard time deciding.

I can pick up a brand new Rikon 10-324 (14" bandsaw) for $850 USD ( converted it from canadian $ for you guys) or a very well kept 2002 (italian made) Laguna LT16 for $1170. The Laguna comes with 4 brand new blades. Doesn't have the ceramic guides.

Both have similar resaw heights around 12" and 1.5 hp motors. Rikon is 110v Laguna is 220v.

Advantage of the Rikon is I get brand new, 5 yr warranty. Nice machine that will do what I need. Very good customer support. Also $300 cheaper.

Advantage of the Laguna is Italian built, bigger wheels (16" vs14"), can handle wider blades than the rikon, comes with 4 brand new blades (biggest is a 1" 3 tpi blade), 220hp motor bigger throat.

Anything I am missing here? Does either machine jump out as better? Suggestions?

Thanks
Randy

[Steve Eure]

Personally, a 5 year warranty goes a long way. The Rikon is the same unit as the 10-325 that was discontinued and replaced with the 10-326. The 325 had an enclosed cabinet while the 324 is an open stand. The new version (10-326) has a 1 3/4 hp motor and the new adjustable guides. I have the 325 and love it. It does all I need it to do. Price wise between the two, you can get a lot of blades for $300 plus a warranty. Of course its your decision and your money.

[Jim Becker]

Compare the weight of the two machines... ;)

[Geoff Crimmins]

If the Laguna is an Italian saw I would definitely choose it over the Rikon. It has a bigger wheels, probably a bigger table, a much heavier frame, better guides, and should just be a higher quality machine. Your General 490 is a great saw, too. You should consider keeping it (in addition to a new saw) and putting a narrower blade on it for cutting curves.

--Geoff

[Frederick Skelly]

Personally, a 5 year warranty goes a long way. The Rikon is the same unit as the 10-325 that was discontinued and replaced with the 10-326. The 325 had an enclosed cabinet while the 324 is an open stand. The new version (10-326) has a 1 3/4 hp motor and the new adjustable guides. I have the 325 and love it. It does all I need it to do. Price wise between the two, you can get a lot of blades for $300 plus a warranty. Of course its your decision and your money.

Hi Randy,
Welcome to the Creek! I also have a 10-325. Like Steve said, it does all I need it to do. If they both have the same HP, I don't see a need for the Laguna.

With that said - to me - buying an italian-made laguna saw would be like buying an Acura instead of a Honda - if you want it, and can swing the extra cost, you won't regret the purchase. Laguna, like Acura, is just a real nice machine.

But there's nothing wrong with that Rikon.

Fred

[Randolph Bates]

If the Laguna is an Italian saw I would definitely choose it over the Rikon. It has a bigger wheels, probably a bigger table, a much heavier frame, better guides, and should just be a higher quality machine. Your General 490 is a great saw, too. You should consider keeping it (in addition to a new saw) and putting a narrower blade on it for cutting curves.

--Geoff

You guys have a lot of the thoughts I had.
My "shop is my 2 car garage (with no cars of course) and space is an issue or I would keep the 490. I have a nice 20" Delta scroll saw for tight curves, so I tend to leave my bandsaw with a 1/2" blade on it for general cutting and just put the 3/4" blade on when I am resawing. The 490 has been a great machine, easy to set up, and I will wind up selling it for what I paid for it 6 years ago. I bought new tires and a few blades and that is it. Can't complain when you only spend a few bucks to use a machine for 6 years.

When I look at the blades that come with the laguna it seems like they are worth about $45 each. I could see spending another $160 (+taxes) on blades if I buy the Rikon.

Like Steve says "5 year warranty goes a long way." I haven't had to collect on many warranty's in my life, but when i did it was very nice!

I think Jim was teasing when he said compare the weight. But my old general 490 is one heavy pig and it is so stable and solid. When I get my blade set up nothing is going to move and will cut consistently.

And the Acura vs Honda comparison by Frederick. So true. Was driving a Pontiac 6000 when a retired neighbour sold me an older BMW 528i that only had 60,000mi. It was his summer driver. My goodness, I couldn't believe the step up in ride and quality. I sort of figure there will be a difference in quality with the saws too. The laguna is definitelyItalian made.

Warranty wise, I wouldn't expect a lot to go wrong with a bandsaw. I think the most expensive thing is the motor which isn't really all that expensive and I can change myself. After that I would think its really just bearings and guides that are going to go. Not much else should go wrong right? I would expect it would be pretty rare for anything else to go.

[Curt Harms]

I have the Rikon's older sibling, 10-325. If resawing is a major consideration, I'd go with the Laguna. For resawing, more is better - more power, more frame rigidity, more wheel diameter. I've resawn on the Rikon and it works well for once-in-a-while resaws but for frequent use it'd be undersized I think.

[Mike Cutler]

I would probably go with the Laguna. The cost of 4 new blades for that saw will about even out the price difference between the machines themselves.
A warranty to me is s sales gimmick. I have never bought something for the included warranty. It's rarely been a factor in my purchase decisions. For some folks it's important, but not me.
The motors on both are still a little small for resaw, so blade selection is going to be important, and there is no difference as to whether one is powered by 220 versus 120.
The larger diameter of the wheel on the Laguna should allow you to use a thicker cross section blade, and if memory serves, a 1" Lennox TriMaster can be properly tensioned on that machine. If it's resaw you're after, the Lennox 2/3 varipitch TriMaster blade, is as good as they come.
As stated, the most expensive component to replace on the saw would be the motor, so the worst that might happen is that you upgrade the motor on the Laguna should it fail to a 2 or 3hp motor.
The laguna LT14 is by all the reviews I've ever read, a solid performer. I know there are a number of folks here on the forum that have/had one. Hopefully they will jump in.

For the record, I own a Rikon 10-340, purchased in 2005. It is used only for resaw, and it is very good at it.

[Jacob Mac]

You guys have a lot of the thoughts I had.
My "shop is my 2 car garage (with no cars of course) and space is an issue or I would keep the 490. I have a nice 20" Delta scroll saw for tight curves, so I tend to leave my bandsaw with a 1/2" blade on it for general cutting and just put the 3/4" blade on when I am resawing. The 490 has been a great machine, easy to set up, and I will wind up selling it for what I paid for it 6 years ago. I bought new tires and a few blades and that is it. Can't complain when you only spend a few bucks to use a machine for 6 years.

When I look at the blades that come with the laguna it seems like they are worth about $45 each. I could see spending another $160 (+taxes) on blades if I buy the Rikon.

Like Steve says "5 year warranty goes a long way." I haven't had to collect on many warranty's in my life, but when i did it was very nice!

I think Jim was teasing when he said compare the weight. But my old general 490 is one heavy pig and it is so stable and solid. When I get my blade set up nothing is going to move and will cut consistently.

And the Acura vs Honda comparison by Frederick. So true. Was driving a Pontiac 6000 when a retired neighbour sold me an older BMW 528i that only had 60,000mi. It was his summer driver. My goodness, I couldn't believe the step up in ride and quality. I sort of figure there will be a difference in quality with the saws too. The laguna is definitelyItalian made.

Warranty wise, I wouldn't expect a lot to go wrong with a bandsaw. I think the most expensive thing is the motor which isn't really all that expensive and I can change myself. After that I would think its really just bearings and guides that are going to go. Not much else should go wrong right? I would expect it would be pretty rare for anything else to go.


I don't want to speak for Jim, but I doubt he was teasing. The Italian made saw probably weighs a lot more, that is an advantage for the Italian made saw.

If it were my money, I would go with the Laguna every time, even if it didn't come with any blades. The fact that it does is just gravy.

[Matthew Hills]

Make sure you have the correct Laguna model identified.
(get a photo of the name plate on the back of the machine)

There are have been a couple of 16" saws from Laguna over the years, varying manufacturer, country of mfg (Italy/Bulgaria/China), motors, guides, and resaw capacity...

You can read more at this SMC thread: Laguna Bandsaw - Made in Bulgaria? (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?143977-Laguna-Bandsaw-Made-in-Bulgaria)


Matt

[Randolph Bates]

I built a belt grinder with a variable frequency drive and a 2hp 3phase 220v motor on it. If motors ever go on a machine like my lathe, drill press or band saw I will put a 3ph motor in and run it through the VFD and have speed control at the turn of a knob.

[Randolph Bates]

I have a picture of the name plate. Not a great pic, but it says Meber, Italy etc.
374950

[Jim Becker]

I think Jim was teasing when he said compare the weight. But my old general 490 is one heavy pig and it is so stable and solid. When I get my blade set up nothing is going to move and will cut consistently.

Actually, I wasn't teasing and your comment about the old General makes the point. :) A heavier, stiffer saw can bring nice benefits as long as your budget can support it.

[andy bessette]

The warranty is virtually useless. Buy the better saw, the Laguna.

[Edwin Santos]

I have a picture of the name plate. Not a great pic, but it says Meber, Italy etc.
374950

Hi Randy,
At that time period, Laguna offered an upgraded version of that saw with a 2.5hp motor and a few other additional features, which is the saw I have. I feel it's a very good saw and would buy it again. It does everything I ask of it and can be tuned to be quite accurate. I will say the asking price seems a little high to me. I can't comment on the Rikon.

The fence the Meber saw came with is not great so I upgraded it with Kreg fence.

Edwin

[Matthew Hills]

I’d agree price is a bit high, but used equipment prices can vary widely by location.

If you are prepared to move the Laguna, I’d recommend going to take a look at it. Go through the guide adjustment and try a resaw on a sample board. Confirm you have the resaw capacity you’re getting. I think the super deep resaw capacities was a relatively recent phenomenon. For resawing, big wheels, strong frame/spring, and big table are all nice. Bigger motor would be nice.

Matt

[Mike Kees]

Randy I would buy the Laguna in a heartbeat. That is as good as it gets price wise on this side of the border. I am still hoping to find a good used Italian saw but will probably bite the bullet and buy a new one this summer. I have been looking for 6 years now and dont want to wait the rest of my life to use one. Mike.

[Randolph Bates]

Randy I would buy the Laguna in a heartbeat. That is as good as it gets price wise on this side of the border. I am still hoping to find a good used Italian saw but will probably bite the bullet and buy a new one this summer. I have been looking for 6 years now and dont want to wait the rest of my life to use one. Mike.

Price has been the sticking point for me with the Laguna. I can buy a brand new14/12 Laguna for the same price as the used LT16. I wouldn't have hesitated if the LT16 was a couple hundred cheaper. But I am beginning to think that there is a good chance I will wait several more years before I find one at that price.

[Randolph Bates]

Dang! I just called the guy up to buy his Laguna and someone else has offered him $200 MORE for the saw. They are picking it up in the next half hour. I shouldn't have been humming and hawing and just got going and bought it. That makes me sad.

[Mike Kees]

There is a guy in Calgary with a LT18 on Kijiji that is a 2008 model. He is asking 3950 with a resaw king blade and 7-8 other blades. This is the only Laguna (Italian) that I have seen this year. A new Minimax S400p was qouted to me for $4000. I have also seen a Hammer N440 for 3000. Welcome to Alberta,very few used Italian saws. What are new prices like for Minimax in the States ?

[Matthew Hills]

There is a guy in Calgary with a LT18 on Kijiji that is a 2008 model. He is asking 3950 with a resaw king blade and 7-8 other blades. This is the only Laguna (Italian) that I have seen this year. A new Minimax S400p was qouted to me for $4000. I have also seen a Hammer N440 for 3000. Welcome to Alberta,very few used Italian saws. What are new prices like for Minimax in the States ?

When I was tracking used prices in SF bay area (2012-2014), I saved some of the listings:
- $900USD - LT16 (1998 Meber, 2.5hp, 7 blades + mobile base)
- $1200USD - LT16 (think this was mid-2000's)
- $1600USD - LT16HD (3hp motor)
- $900USD - Minimax S45
- $700USD - Minimax S45
- $800USD - Minimax S45 (winning bid at westauction.com)
(Jim Foster posted the 2001 Laguna price list (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?172242-UsedLaguana-16-quot-Italian-model-bandsaw&highlight=resaw+master%26quot%3B+%26quot%3BLT37) in another thread.)

One problem with good deals on used tools is they don't sit for long -- so you need to make up your mind quickly and be ready to go get the tool. I'd recommend going immediately to visit -- evaluate the tool and start any negotiations if the pricing is an issue.

(I ended up buying a new mm16, but it has been my highest-end tool purchase to-date)

If your heart is really on a larger saw, do the 18" rikon's go on sale in Canada? (seem to here in the states)

Matt

[Randolph Bates]

I screwed up....I should have grabbed it. If there is a next time you watch how fast I move!

[andy bessette]

I screwed up....I should have grabbed it. If there is a next time you watch how fast I move!

You learned a valuable lesson about shopping for equipment. You let the shine of fresh paint and a virtually valueless warranty seduce you away from seeing the true value in a better, quality, used machine until it was too late to act. This is part of due diligence. And it will help you focus on what is truly important. Keep your eye on the prize.

[Curt Harms]

The warranty is virtually useless. Buy the better saw, the Laguna.

I don't know about the warranty being useless. The Rikon 10-325's motor developed an illness a week or two after I got it. I got another motor under warranty. I would agree that 5 year warranty over 1 year is about worthless. My experience with most things electric is if they don't suffer an early failure, they're good for years.

[Randolph Bates]

An 18" laguna came up on craigslist last night for $1950cdn. I saw the ad this morning and emailed and offered to buy it full price. It was sold already. Now I am just sad.

[Geoff Crimmins]

Do the General 20" saws come up for sale often? I would expect one of those to have the same great quality as your 15" General, and don't they have a 12" resaw height?

--Geoff

[Randolph Bates]

Do the General 20" saws come up for sale often? I would expect one of those to have the same great quality as your 15" General, and don't they have a 12" resaw height?

--Geoff
As I have started watching more closely it seems like the better named solid second hand machines are a lot more rare than the cheapo ones on craigslist. I have set up a couple craigslist searches to notify me if Laguna and a few other names come up. If they do I will get moving. It is just a matter of time right?

Hey Matthew Hills. What did you wind up with? Did you get a reasonable deal in the end?

[andy bessette]

...It is just a matter of time right?...

Actually it is a matter of perseverance. Widen your search radius.