Scott Turnquist
12-28-2017, 9:51 PM
OK, here it is, I am looking to upgrade from my old Sears Craftsman lathe to something in the $2,500 to $3,500 range. I have examined various lathe threads and manufacturer data; here are teh candidates:
NOVA Galaxi DVR 1644
Laguna 18/36 Revo
JET JWL-1840EVS
JET JWL-1642 EVS-2 PRO (looks kind of like a Powermatic 3520B, only in white)
Powermatic PM2020 Short Bed Lathe (20" between centers)
Now, before you all chime in, I know some of you out there cannot stand the thought of a rotating headstock, I am kind of turned off by that as well. I am also looking to be able to push the headstock to either end in case someday I do larger than 16-18" turnings and I cannot afford a full sized PM2520 or a Robust lathe.
OK, although I am soliciting informed feedback, before I mortgage my wife, I have found a couple of somewhat glaring mechanical differences in the above lathes.
1) On the Powermatic, the JET JWL-1840EVS and NOVA Galaxi, there are two sealed ball bearings separated by a spacer on the inboard end of the spindle that seem to provide added load support for the stock being turned. I have reviewed some English lathes and older US lathes and I have found either the double bearings or roller bearings to be common on the heavier duty lathes.
On the JET JWL-2642 EVS-2 PRO, and the Laguna 18/36 REVO, there is only one sealed ball bearing on the inboard end of the spindle to support all of the vibration of the turning; this seems like a failure point to me for turning off balance loads or if you have a serious catch (which is what killed the similar single bearing on my Craftsman lathe - which was a direct drive variable speed lathe but has lots of play in the tailstock, bad calming system for the banjo, tailstock and headstock....)
2) Bed length: Generally, I turn bowls and lidded boxes that are less than 20" long. However, I do use long handled tools so on a short bed like the PM2020, I would need to get the tailstock out of the way half way into a turning to do the hollowing and interior scraping. The PM tailstock is heavy, but being at the outer edge of my price range, I would have to settle for a block and tackle to suspend it away from the lathe bed until I could add the 18" bed extension or tailstock swing away.
3) One EVS controller and three phase motor and seems to be the same as another. I do think I would go with a 220Vac setup with 2HP. You can buy after market repair parts for the Variable Frequency Single Phase to Three Phase controllers and the three phase motors. The NOVA with 115 Vac single phase input and only 1.5HP, has that DVR motor armature that is built onto the spindle and has a proprietary drive and control system. I have heard only good comments on it and no failure comments to date and it is the least expensive of the selections above.
4) Rotating Headstocks in general. These are of limited use to me for now. What I seem to be reading and seeing on You Tube videos is that expert wood turners do not like them because you cannot seem to sufficiently tighten the headstock to the base of the lathe ways to keep all vibration sinked to the lathe base rather than the headstock, and consequently the turning itself. My Craftsman lathe developed a small rattle in the headstock inboard bearing, I thought I could work around it, but when I let a tool go a little too dull and pushed a little too hard, the project shattered (segmented turning). Also, it causes slight surface variations that I spend a lot of time sanding out rather than scraping smooth ;)
between the Nova and the JET JWL-1840EVS, the Nova has a rectangular piece of metal that seems to closely fit between the ways so when you tighten down the headstock, it has more holding surface area, but its still a center point machined washer so any minor lack of flatness in the base will translate to some vibration for non-balanced loads and may exhibit vibration at various RPM frequency harmonics. Even the PM 2520B has this problem to a certain extent and I saw one video where the turning instructor put a folded piece of paper under one corner of the lathe headstock prior to tightening it down to the ways to get rid of the vibration. The JET uses a machined circular washer without a rectangular insert (although it does come with a bolt on insert at the base of the headstock that is there for 'shipping', and is to be removed although some leave it in for additional anti-headstock rotating lathe support.
So, experienced turners:
Are the rotating headstocks on the JET and Nova really that bad?
Is the single inboard ball bearing race really a problem on the Laguna?
Initially a several months ago I was looking at the Nova Galaxi, it seemed a dream machine for the price, nice double bearing in the inboard headstock, and it seemed the banjo and tool rest were adequate. A couple of months ago, I saw the laguna with its 2HP VFS drive system and I really liked the look and feel of the Laguna - I tired it out at a woodcraft store, its the right height for me, the bed ways are smooth and flat, the banjo tool rest and way tightening handles seem to work flawlessly and travel smoothly, the headstock does not rotate and both the headstock and tailstock have adjustments to re-align their centers if needed. It is limited to 36" between centers and that is where I sometimes hit my elbow with my longer handle hollowing tools so it has to come off - buts its not as heavy as the PM.
So, are my concerns valid or should I just go with the Laguna and expect to occasionally replace its bearings?
I do wish I could afford a PM 2520C, wow! Now if only my retirement Lotto Numbers would come up... ;)
Thanks
Scott in Harwood
NOVA Galaxi DVR 1644
Laguna 18/36 Revo
JET JWL-1840EVS
JET JWL-1642 EVS-2 PRO (looks kind of like a Powermatic 3520B, only in white)
Powermatic PM2020 Short Bed Lathe (20" between centers)
Now, before you all chime in, I know some of you out there cannot stand the thought of a rotating headstock, I am kind of turned off by that as well. I am also looking to be able to push the headstock to either end in case someday I do larger than 16-18" turnings and I cannot afford a full sized PM2520 or a Robust lathe.
OK, although I am soliciting informed feedback, before I mortgage my wife, I have found a couple of somewhat glaring mechanical differences in the above lathes.
1) On the Powermatic, the JET JWL-1840EVS and NOVA Galaxi, there are two sealed ball bearings separated by a spacer on the inboard end of the spindle that seem to provide added load support for the stock being turned. I have reviewed some English lathes and older US lathes and I have found either the double bearings or roller bearings to be common on the heavier duty lathes.
On the JET JWL-2642 EVS-2 PRO, and the Laguna 18/36 REVO, there is only one sealed ball bearing on the inboard end of the spindle to support all of the vibration of the turning; this seems like a failure point to me for turning off balance loads or if you have a serious catch (which is what killed the similar single bearing on my Craftsman lathe - which was a direct drive variable speed lathe but has lots of play in the tailstock, bad calming system for the banjo, tailstock and headstock....)
2) Bed length: Generally, I turn bowls and lidded boxes that are less than 20" long. However, I do use long handled tools so on a short bed like the PM2020, I would need to get the tailstock out of the way half way into a turning to do the hollowing and interior scraping. The PM tailstock is heavy, but being at the outer edge of my price range, I would have to settle for a block and tackle to suspend it away from the lathe bed until I could add the 18" bed extension or tailstock swing away.
3) One EVS controller and three phase motor and seems to be the same as another. I do think I would go with a 220Vac setup with 2HP. You can buy after market repair parts for the Variable Frequency Single Phase to Three Phase controllers and the three phase motors. The NOVA with 115 Vac single phase input and only 1.5HP, has that DVR motor armature that is built onto the spindle and has a proprietary drive and control system. I have heard only good comments on it and no failure comments to date and it is the least expensive of the selections above.
4) Rotating Headstocks in general. These are of limited use to me for now. What I seem to be reading and seeing on You Tube videos is that expert wood turners do not like them because you cannot seem to sufficiently tighten the headstock to the base of the lathe ways to keep all vibration sinked to the lathe base rather than the headstock, and consequently the turning itself. My Craftsman lathe developed a small rattle in the headstock inboard bearing, I thought I could work around it, but when I let a tool go a little too dull and pushed a little too hard, the project shattered (segmented turning). Also, it causes slight surface variations that I spend a lot of time sanding out rather than scraping smooth ;)
between the Nova and the JET JWL-1840EVS, the Nova has a rectangular piece of metal that seems to closely fit between the ways so when you tighten down the headstock, it has more holding surface area, but its still a center point machined washer so any minor lack of flatness in the base will translate to some vibration for non-balanced loads and may exhibit vibration at various RPM frequency harmonics. Even the PM 2520B has this problem to a certain extent and I saw one video where the turning instructor put a folded piece of paper under one corner of the lathe headstock prior to tightening it down to the ways to get rid of the vibration. The JET uses a machined circular washer without a rectangular insert (although it does come with a bolt on insert at the base of the headstock that is there for 'shipping', and is to be removed although some leave it in for additional anti-headstock rotating lathe support.
So, experienced turners:
Are the rotating headstocks on the JET and Nova really that bad?
Is the single inboard ball bearing race really a problem on the Laguna?
Initially a several months ago I was looking at the Nova Galaxi, it seemed a dream machine for the price, nice double bearing in the inboard headstock, and it seemed the banjo and tool rest were adequate. A couple of months ago, I saw the laguna with its 2HP VFS drive system and I really liked the look and feel of the Laguna - I tired it out at a woodcraft store, its the right height for me, the bed ways are smooth and flat, the banjo tool rest and way tightening handles seem to work flawlessly and travel smoothly, the headstock does not rotate and both the headstock and tailstock have adjustments to re-align their centers if needed. It is limited to 36" between centers and that is where I sometimes hit my elbow with my longer handle hollowing tools so it has to come off - buts its not as heavy as the PM.
So, are my concerns valid or should I just go with the Laguna and expect to occasionally replace its bearings?
I do wish I could afford a PM 2520C, wow! Now if only my retirement Lotto Numbers would come up... ;)
Thanks
Scott in Harwood