Cast Iron Vs.Steel Lathe Bed

[Roger Chandler]

I was looking at both the Versions of the Harvey T60 lathes sold by Grizzly and Laguna.....the G0800 and the Laguna Revo 24/36 respectively. I notice one of the main differences is the cast iron bed on the Grizzly G0800 and the steel bed ways on the Laguna Revo 24/36. I have watched three videos on the two lathes, and both seem to have their proponents.

Some say cast iron dampens vibrations better than steel, and proponents of the steel ways speak of how smooth and rigid the steel ways are, and never mention any issues related to vibration dampening. I do like the ergonomics on the Laguna and the extra set of controls at the tailstock.

I am intriqued, and actually have been considering a new lathe :eek::eek::D. I was thinking along the lines of a Robust AB or Oneway 2436, but these two Harvey T60 clones have grabbed my attention as well, and seem to be well spoken of.

I had a thought..... After looking at features of what I have been calling “premium lathes,” it seems each design has merits, and there doesn’t seem to be that one model that has every possible desired feature, and perhaps the newer top of the line lathes coming out of China might just be the best all around because of the solid features and the price factor of being about 1/3rd the price of a fully tricked out North American made machine. Warranty certainly is better with Robust and Oneway, but it seems the quality is there in these Harvey Industries T60 clones.......the same company that makes the Powermatic brand.

I would like to hear comments on the steel bed vs. heavy cast iron, and any other line of thinking you may have on my comments above. Am I missing something, or am I on to something here? Oh by the way, I am hoping to have a 3 lathe shop, so plan at this point to keep my G0766, which I am pleased with, and my Delta midi.

[Bill Blasic]

Roger having worked for 40 years with cast iron machinery all my lathes are cast iron. I do not even like the tool rests with the steel rod attached. You speak of all the lathes you have used so you should be able to make an informed decision of what you want. The Harvey T 60 does look pretty nice (a nice sale price in New Zealand).

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

just in general, there really isn't much made of cast iron in the past 50 years. Mostly cast steel. A different alloy of course, but a lot of folks still refer to anything cast steel as cast iron. some cast steel is tough as can be, holds an edge pretty well, etc. (My Blackhawk hand axe for instance is cast steel. That's a lot of abuse on a narrow piece of cast metal )

[John Keeton]

Roger, you may want to wait. Since Brent English sold four American Beauties to Harvey earlier this year, just knowing how Chinese companies operate, it may be just a matter of time before you can buy a knock off AB from Harvey!!

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, you may want to wait. Since Brent English sold four American Beauties to Harvey earlier this year, just knowing how Chinese companies operate, it may be just a matter of time before you can buy a knock off AB from Harvey!!
Wow....that makes me wonder if Brent might be thinking about selling the company? No doubt he has patents, but as you say, the Chinese seem to operate with intellectual property taken from American know how.

John. What is your assessment of the steel bed on your Laguna 18/36? Do you see much difference in it and the cast bed of your former Jet?

[Roger Chandler]

just in general, there really isn't much made of cast iron in the past 50 years. Mostly cast steel. A different alloy of course, but a lot of folks still refer to anything cast steel as cast iron. some cast steel is tough as can be, holds an edge pretty well, etc. (My Blackhawk hand axe for instance is cast steel. That's a lot of abuse on a narrow piece of cast metal )The steel bed ways are extruded steel tubes formed in a rectangular cross section. The cast bed ways are poured into a mold, then machined down. I am not sure on the cast alloy compounds, but if they contain steel components then they might be just as strong, perhaps?

[John Keeton]

Roger, I can’t tell any functional difference. I am fastidious about keeping wax on my lathe bed as well as my other shop tool surfaces, so I never have rust issues. It may be very slightly softer, I suppose because of less carbon, but that is a subjective assessment based on a couple of hardly discernible scratches. It is straight as an arrow and very smooth.

The ways of the Laguna are welded to the structure of the bed, including welds to the cross braces. It doesn’t appear to be an extrusion.

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, I can’t tell any functional difference. The ways of the Laguna are welded to the structure of the bed, including welds to the cross braces. It doesn’t appear to be an extrusion.Thanks for that John...it made me go to Laguna’s website and look more carefully at images and videos. The bed appears to be welded steel like the 18/36 model. It does say they have increased the thickness of the leg castings to 1/2” thick to give more ballast and rigidity to the Revo 24/36. It also has an available 20” bed extension, which could be put on to turn off the end. Lots to consider in available choices!

[Peter Blair]

Cast or Steel? I love my Oneway but because I turn lots of wet wood I sure wish I had gotten the Stainless Steel ways!!

[Bob Bergstrom]

Roger, I’ve been turning over 45 years and like many other have upgraded through 8 lathes, each better than the last. I had a 3520 and loved using it, but wanted 3 hp so I now have a Robust. This lathe will be my last. I think I’ve lost the desire for a better lathe. If you turn wet wood it is the way to go. I can’t say the steel vs cast is a determining factor, but the stainless steel ways are a real plus. The banjo and tail are cast, so wet wood will require some lubrication to the ways. I used the Robust 15” tool rest for a couple weeks and found it to vibrate at the ends too much. I traded it back for my old Powermatic cast ( minimal vibration, rock solid and rarely needs a little dressing to the surface. I believe the banjo and tool rest are one of the most important factors in reducing vibrations.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

The arguements over cast iron vs steel weldments has been going on forever. I’m not an engineer by training, but I can and do research on a regular basis for my work. There are several texts on machine tool design (Google is your friend - Textbook of Production Engineering, Chapter 14, Design of machine tool beds is particularly informative) where the differences between weldments and cast iron are discussed in detail - specifically oriented to lathe and machine tool beds. Grey cast iron will always have proponents that will use nothing else, as will steel weldments. The basic truth seems to be that, with good design and manufacturing, either will work just fine. Differences in vibration, dampening stiffness and rigidity are so minor as to be irrelevant in well designed and produced machines. It needs to be pointed out that cast grey iron is not universally used across the spectrum of tool manufacturers and foundries.
Cast iron is preferred when the cost for developing the pattern can be amortized over the number of tools produced. Weldments are preferred when the production numbers are low as for custom designed equipment. Weight does not always equal stability, and the term cast iron can have many differences in actual composition ranging from the desirable to the efficient (cast grey iron differs dramatically from the amalgam of old drill bits and junk that passes for cast iron in some production flows). I’ve seen imported cast iron components that required weighing before being accepted for delivery due to high bondo content of finished parts used to fill voids in poorly cast parts.
What it all comes down to is that perhaps, in the 21st century we should select machines we interect with often based on how it performs. If you don’t like the way it vibrates or the sound it makes while working, either don’t buy it or send it back. If you have a thing for cast iron, there are plenty of machines to fill the bill.

[Marvin Hasenak]

I think the final answer would be determined by whatthe steel alloy is. Most steel is superior to cast iron, but the application also dtermines it suitability. An example is stainless steel, if price was equal I doubt if many would turn down stainless steel ways.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

[QUOTE=Roger Chandler;2759301]Wow....that makes me wonder if Brent might be thinking about selling the company? No doubt he has patents, but as you say, the Chinese seem to operate with intellectual property taken from American know how.QUOTE]

Roger and John - that looks the beginning of yet another internet rumor...

[Roger Chandler]

Got this nice note from Brent English at Robust..:D.....what a great guy! Seriously, wonderful communication and information is important, and as far as my input in the forum is concerned, I want to be factual, and though I ask questions that I am curious about, I really do appreciate when good info comes forward!
Here is Brent's message.........
“Harvey Industries has two business models. The first is to manufacture and sell tools to US and European woodworkers. The second model is to distribute US and European tools to woodworkers in China. Brands like Fesstool, SawStop and now Robust Lathes. It may come as no surprise that as China’s middle class grows, they hunger for better tools and US and European items are attractive to them. Any speculation Robust Tools is considering selling the company to any Chinese concern is incorrect.”


Thank you Brent for letting us know that the Robust line is so good, even the Chinese want one!!! ;)

[John Keeton]

My comments were not directed to Robust at all, but more an historical comment after seeing Chinese clones of all sorts of products made elsewhere. Hopefully, Harvey values the American business it enjoys and would never do that. But, who knows which other Chinese company might get ahold of one and not be so ethical. China steals more industrial secrets from the US than can be imagined. I wish Brent the best in seeking another territory for sales, but I just hope all goes well for him.

[carl mesaros]

I was looking at both the Versions of the Harvey T60 lathes sold by Grizzly and Laguna.....the G0800 and the Laguna Revo 24/36 respectively. I notice one of the main differences is the cast iron bed on the Grizzly G0800 and the steel bed ways on the Laguna Revo 24/36. I have watched three videos on the two lathes, and both seem to have their proponents.

Some say cast iron dampens vibrations better than steel, and proponents of the steel ways speak of how smooth and rigid the steel ways are, and never mention any issues related to vibration dampening. I do like the ergonomics on the Laguna and the extra set of controls at the tailstock.

I am intriqued, and actually have been considering a new lathe :eek::eek::D. I was thinking along the lines of a Robust AB or Oneway 2436, but these two Harvey T60 clones have grabbed my attention as well, and seem to be well spoken of.

I had a thought..... After looking at features of what I have been calling “premium lathes,” it seems each design has merits, and there doesn’t seem to be that one model that has every possible desired feature, and perhaps the newer top of the line lathes coming out of China might just be the best all around because of the solid features and the price factor of being about 1/3rd the price of a fully tricked out North American made machine. Warranty certainly is better with Robust and Oneway, but it seems the quality is there in these Harvey Industries T60 clones.......the same company that makes the Powermatic brand.

I would like to hear comments on the steel bed vs. heavy cast iron, and any other line of thinking you may have on my comments above. Am I missing something, or am I on to something here? Oh by the way, I am hoping to have a 3 lathe shop, so plan at this point to keep my G0766, which I am pleased with, and my Delta midi.

Roger as you may remember I have the old version Laguna 2436 lathe(GO-800) and have praised it's functionality. I have zero complaints or issues in the 2/12 years I have turned on it. Love the weight, power, stance, etc. That being said I could never compare it to a Robust or especially a Oneway. Those lathes are like comparing a Ford to high end BMW.
I was close to ordering a Oneway 2436 until I saw the Laguna at Woodwerks in Columbus, Ohio. Hard to pay over double for basically the same specifications. Although that Oneway is so beautiful to look at!

[Olaf Vogel]

Roger,

IMO there's a lot of misinformation around this (and a few other issues on the web).
Traditional lathes, especially metal lathes are cast. They are heavy as hell and hence dampen well.

I have a 1920(ish) Tool Room lathe, that weights around 3000 lbs. Sure, great damping. But for metal lathes, we're talking about damping very small vibrations since they are working for tight tolerances.

My wood lathe has a steel bed. Very difference construction, very different characteristics. Damping sucks, but after adding 1000 lbs of concrete, its really good. :)
I've used a large Oneway, which is all steel and damping is excellent. Its also very well designed.

Overall, i doubt it makes a difference between the too, assuming both are well designed/built.

Also, IMO, the stainless ways are not an issue. My steel bed see only soaking wet wood.
Wax the bed occasionally and there's no rust.

[Reed Gray]

The only real differences I could notice between my 3520A and my AB were that they made different noises. Vibration issues seem to be more related to mass, sliding headstock vs fixed headstock, lathe frame and base, and how far from the headstock things are mounted. This last one seems to be a theory that only I am advancing. The farther away from the headstock a piece is mounted, no matter how beefy of a cone you have to support it is, the more vibration you will encounter. Basic lever issue. There has been a big increase in lathe models that try to get things farther off the headstock tower so you have easier access to the base of a bowl. Not an issue for me as I don't twice turn my bowls.

robo hippy

[Bill Dufour]

If these have hollow weldements they can be filled with lead shot, steel shot, or sand/gravel. loose metal shot will absorb vibration better then concrete because it is more dense and internal friction soaks up energy.
Bill D

[Reed Gray]

I will admit to thinking about filling the tube on my Robust lathes. The extra weight would help, and a loose filler would be good for adding more mass, which I am not sure if I need or not. I had also thought about using some of that insulation type spray foam for sound dampening, but that would not be easy to remove if you had to...

robo hippy

[Ralph Lindberg]

I will admit to thinking about filling the tube on my Robust lathes. The extra weight would help, and a loose filler would be good for adding more mass, which I am not sure if I need or not. I had also thought about using some of that insulation type spray foam for sound dampening, but that would not be easy to remove if you had to...

robo hippy

Reed, Aetone dissolve's most spray foams.

[Richard Casey]

The steel bed ways are extruded steel tubes formed in a rectangular cross section. The cast bed ways are poured into a mold, then machined down. I am not sure on the cast alloy compounds, but if they contain steel components then they might be just as strong, perhaps?
Roger, I think it comes down to companies working out how to get a bigger market share by reducing costs. It is very labour intensive doing sand castings and then machining and finishing them. When I bought my cast iron Laguna 24/36 it was on display beside a Powermatic. Identical sized bed ways, except for the finish as the PM is ground all over and the Laguna is a lot rougher. Laguna was $4,200, PM was $12,000 which reflects the extra manhours and various extras.
I was at a shop today picking up some laser cut gussets and I ran a scenario by the guy to cut the components for a bed way. He used to machine cast pump bodies and there were high failure rates with the casting process. He said he could draw it up in CAD and get his CNC laser to cut an awful lot out in an 8 hr day then jig weld them so there is minimal machining. Imagine getting that done in China and that is why they are going to welded steel beds.
Rgds,
Richard.