Why a Jointer/Planer Combo machine?

[Shiraz Balolia]

Several people have discussed interest in a good jointer/planer combination machine. Are space constraints the main reason for such a machine, or the ability to joint wider boards an additional attraction?
From what I see out there, selection is limited and for the price, one could easily buy a stand alone jointer and a planer for about the same amount of money.
Your thoughts please.

[Don Baer]

Shiraz,
In my case I think my preferance would be a combo so that I can save floor space. I also would want to have the planer and Joiner the same size so why not a combo.

[john whittaker]

Shiraz, The two major advantages are just as you thought. Combo machines allow jointing & plaining the same width. May hobby shops have 6" & 8" jointer's and 12" - 15" planers. Combos also take up less space. Single machines, have the advantage, especially jointers, of having longer beds and do not take as long to set up. (changing from one function to the other) It's a matter of choice and pocket book. We all like choices and I for one would have rather bought a combo machine but my pocket book said NO.

[Mike Cutler]

Shiraz.

For myself, it would be the consolidation of space. My "shop" is two, 9'x19' spaces arranged in an "L".
The planer( Jet 15") takes up a fair amount of space even when not in use, and at 500lbs, it not the easiest mobile machine to roll around.
The jointer (Jet 6") also occupies a fair bit of real estate. at least it's lighter and easier to maneuver.
I don't know about the pricing point of combo vs. standalones. Once jointers start getting 12" wide, and over, they become pretty expensive. A 15"planer, depending on the make and model, is reatively cheap compared to the jointer.
One more consideration is motor size. The 15" planers have 3 HP motors, and the 12"-16" jointers usually have much larger motors. Sometimes you just don't have the extra breaker capacity in a garage sub panel to run really large motors without an electrical upgrade. I think that the MiniMax has a 4 or 5 HP motor, but don't quote me. It seemed fairly doable to me when I looked at them.

[Frank Pellow]

The reason that I gave a combo jointer/planer very serious consideration was space saving. In the end I could not find a combo machine that I liked and opted instead for a a 8 inch jointer and 15 inch planer (both Delta) and mobile bases for same. The definately crowd my shop more than I would like.

[Jim Becker]

No question, I love my J/P combo. I believe in having the same capacity for jointing as for thicknessing and the combo allows me to do that with a footprint that is reasonable. I could not fit both a 14-16" jointer as well as a 15"+ planer in my shop comfortably and the combination with the same quality as the machine I own would not necessarily been less expensive or even the same cost. This is not just a capacity issue, but also includes things like Tersa knives, the ablity to accomodate a slot-mortiser, etc. (I have subsequently added a DRO to the planer table for my personal convenience)

My "ideal" shop world would be a jointer/planer combo and a true sliding table saw/tilting shaper combo. That matches the way I like to work as well as the physical constraints of my shop. (A full 5 function combo would not work for me in both respects)

[Andrew Ault]

I would be attracted to a tools with a combination of characteristics.

Space saving is a big deal as I have a small shop.

I would want a jointer/planer with about a 12" width or a little more. This is simply based on current designs that I've seen and the compromise they pose between space and capability.

I recently saw an older jointer with aluminum fold down table ends. This seemed pretty smart to me. This might be an option that could be purchased separately or allow a compact footprint when not in use.

Built-in mobility would be a big plus to many buyers of this machine. My jointer lives under a storage system and rolls out when I need it.

Personally, I would hope for a 220v motor with good power. I would not buy a jointer without a magnetic switch. Cord storage would be a nice feature, but not essential.

Manual height adjustment would be fine with me, to keep the cost down. If height adjustment had two speeds, that would be neat - maybe two holes for the crank. Not essential, but a good feature if possible.

A provision for an optional digital height guage would be great.

I like American style knife guards.

Green or cream and green would be a good color choice. :)

[Ed Bamba]

Shiraz,

If the price was resonable, I would go with the combo for the same reasons that have been stated above. I currently don't have a jointer, but do have a 12 inch Delta bench top planer.

BTW, I sent you a PM re. a jointer. Looking forward to your reply.

Take Care, Ed

[Steve Wargo]

Shiraz,

I build furniture semi-pro part time, but have a fair clientel and stay busy. My shop is fairly small and space is a big conseideration for me. Please uderstand that I do most everything by hand and really only have a bandsaw, planer, and lathe. While I have a portable planer I currently joint everything by hand. I would love to put a big old piece of iron in the shop, but I don't have space for one. So if I purchase a jointer/planer I can basically fit two tools into the space of one footprint. And if it's mobile that's even better. Second, the European jointer/planers on the market are not only built very soundly they are also very quiet, another concern to us Neaderthal types. The ease of only connecting one tool to dust collection also a bonus. However, like many, I haven't pulled the trigger due to prices. I'm always searching for the "big find" online, but always end up being late. Thanks again for posting and keep up the good work

[Ian Barley]

Over her in the UK the Jointer/Planer (we call it by the correct name Planer/Thicknesser) is such a common machine that most people would not even think of it as a combination. The Jointer on its own is a fairly rare machine from European suppliers and mainly features in large sizes in pro shops.

For hobbyists this is undoubtedly mainly driven by space considerations but the matching of capacity for the two functions is also a significant factor. I think that cost comparisons have to be taken carefully.

At the time of writing a 6" jointer and a 12" lunchbox planer would cost about £850 while a 10" J/P can be had from £530. Production grade 12" seperate machines from about £5500 or combined from about £3000.

I suspect that because the combination machine is where the volume is in this market that is where the price pressure rests.

[JayStPeter]

I'll start by saying that my main desire is a larger jointer. I would like to have a minimum 12" capacity.
I easily have space for a typical 8" jointer and 15" planer. While a typical 12" jointer might fit in my shop, the extra width required would significantly eat into my walkways (especially if you include a rack & pinion fence sticking off the back). With a combo, I could also fit some additional benches or equipment around as I would only have one 12" wide path for the wood to travel 20' instead of 2 spaced around a foot apart.
It also seems that the combo machines are a little more friendly to the imperfect basement shop. Their weights tend to come in a little less than the equivalent width jointer. For the home hobby shop, 1200 lbs. in a 7' long package is a lot to deal with. So is 800 lbs in a 6' long package, but a little nicer. Almost manageable if some disassembly is a possibility.
To me, the ideal machine (except the price) is the 14" MiniMax. It's size is right on what I'd like. The 12" versions just have too short tables. If one of the 12" versions had longer tables, they would work just fine also.

Jay

[Rob Russell]

Shiraz,

I would say that the 2 main factors that drove me to a combo are the 2 you listed. Space is a concern for me (basement shop) and the physical space taken up by a 20" jointer and separate 20" planer would be substantial. While it's not likely that I'll need the ability to face joint 20" boards too often, having that ability will be very nice. That and the ability to skew figured stock and face joint it at an able.

You are correct that I could have purchased a pair of far east imports for less than the 20" jointer/planer I went with. One other advantage of the specific equipment I went with is the ability to add table extensions, so I can have a 120" jointer if I need it but only need to store a 7' machine under normal circumstances.

Rob

[Frank Pellow]

Shiraz, this is not an answer to your question (I already did that) but a suggestion while I have your attention.

There is a link the jointers and planers however because I just had to rewire both of them.

I have five 240 volt machines in my shop. Three of them (Oneida 2HP Dust Controller, General 650 Table Saw, and ACM Star 400 Band Saw) came without a cord and I had to wire in my own. I was quite happy to do this. The other two (Delta 8" Jointer and Delta 15" planer) came with a very short (2 metre) cord. I find a cord of this length to be almost useless on a mobile machine. So, I had to remove the cords that came with the machines and replace ithem with 4 metre cords. It was much more difficult to unwire then rewire these machines than it would have be to simply wire them in the first place.

I have never seen a Grizzly machine so I don't know what your wiring policy is but I strongly suggest that, for your 240 volt machines, you either don't wire them at all or that you provide a cord at least 4 metres long.

[Dan Larson]

I'll start by saying that my main desire is a larger jointer. I would like to have a minimum 12" capacity.
I easily have space for a typical 8" jointer and 15" planer. While a typical 12" jointer might fit in my shop, the extra width required would significantly eat into my walkways (especially if you include a rack & pinion fence sticking off the back). With a combo, I could also fit some additional benches or equipment around as I would only have one 12" wide path for the wood to travel 20' instead of 2 spaced around a foot apart.
It also seems that the combo machines are a little more friendly to the imperfect basement shop. Their weights tend to come in a little less than the equivalent width jointer. For the home hobby shop, 1200 lbs. in a 7' long package is a lot to deal with. So is 800 lbs in a 6' long package, but a little nicer. Almost manageable if some disassembly is a possibility.
To me, the ideal machine (except the price) is the 14" MiniMax. It's size is right on what I'd like. The 12" versions just have too short tables. If one of the 12" versions had longer tables, they would work just fine also.

Jay
My thinking was exactly the same as Jay's on this one, so I bought a Rojek 12" J/P.

Dan

[Mike Cutler]

Shiraz, this is not an answer to your question (I already did that) but a suggestion while I have your attention.

There is a link the jointers and planers however because I just had to rewire both of them.

I have five 240 volt machines in my shop. Three of them (Oneida 2HP Dust Controller, General 650 Table Saw, and ACM Star 400 Band Saw) came without a cord and I had to wire in my own. I was quite happy to do this. The other two (Delta 8" Jointer and Delta 15" planer) came with a very short (2 metre) cord. I find a cord of this length to be almost useless on a mobile machine. So, I had to remove the cords that came with the machines and replace ithem with 4 metre cords. It was much more difficult to unwire then rewire these machines than it would have be to simply wire them in the first place.

I have never seen a Grizzly machine so I don't know what your wiring policy is but I strongly suggest that, for your 240 volt machines, you either don't wire them at all or that you provide a cord at least 4 metres long.

Frank. I can't comment on the length of cord for a Grizzly Machine, but I once had this question about an electric chain hoist.
An electrical engineer told me that the length of the supplied electrical cord was the maximum length, at that AWG, that it could be and still carry a UL rating of approval. I can't prove or disprove this, but maybe there is something there.

[Charlie Plesums]

When I had a delta planer, it was a constant challenge to eliminate snipe. And my 6 inch jointer was practically useless. So I went to a 16 inch combo to match capacities, to be able to joint glued-up panels, to be able to put figured wood through at an angle, have a tersa cutterhead, and many other points already made.

But one big point has been overlooked... the combo machines are professional grade - no rubber feed rollers that often allow snipe or slight variation in thickness, but a hard steel feed (yes I do need to take off at least .02 inches in the final pass). If I have made the first side flat (i.e if I have not taken a shortcut on the jointer) then I have NOT had snipe. The heavy duty combo machines keep that workpiece flat on the planer table as it does the planing.

[Cecil Arnold]

Shiraz, if you are considering such a machine you better hurry as Jet has one in their European line. To answer your question I would love such a machine due to space problems in a 11X23' shop. To be able to get rid of a seperate jointer and plainer and replace them with a 12" unit would give back some much needed space.

[Dev Emch]

1). As an example. A hofmann planer/jointer like the one my buddy has costs a tad more than either the hofmann jointer or the planer. So its almost a 2 for 1 special on hofmann machines. And that is saying something. Hofmann and Martin are the two best made machines in the world today. Hofmann comes out of Bad Windsheim, Germany.

2). Space. A 12 in jointer like a northfield is 8 feet long. Move into a 20 in jointer like my porter 300, and its 8 feet long and takes up about 3.5 to 4 feet from the front to the end of the DMD motor. Lou's Newman 60 is a similar size and folks here call it: THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER.

3). Wide jointers allow you to a). skew cut heavy figure timber and b). run very long boards to get them perfectly flat and lastly, c). face joint wide boards for the planer. Its hard to perform these functions on smaller jointers but larger jointers really eat the floor space.

4). Its nice to have a jointer matched to a planer. Planers dont produce nice flat surfaces as some believe. This is wrong. Planers produce a smooth version of the lumber's OTHER side. So if you have imperfections, then the planer will recreate those. Face jointing provides the planer a chance to produce a version of the jointed face which is close to perfect. Jointers and planers are barely cousins to each other. They are not the same machine and have major differences. That is why the two need to work together and be matched to one another.

[John Renzetti]

But one big point has been overlooked... the combo machines are professional grade - no rubber feed rollers that often allow snipe or slight variation in thickness, but a hard steel feed (yes I do need to take off at least .02 inches in the final pass). If I have made the first side flat (i.e if I have not taken a shortcut on the jointer) then I have NOT had snipe. The heavy duty combo machines keep that workpiece flat on the planer table as it does the planing.

Hi Charlie, On the Felder, Martin, SCM, and a couple of other machines you can get both rubber infeed and outfeed rollers. From what I understand they are great for planing workpieces with slightly different thicknesses (need a segmented pressure bar also), and very thin workpieces. A friend has them on his big Martin and says they are great.
take care,
John

[John Renzetti]

Hello Shiraz, Being able to put a large capacity machine in a small space is the reason I have a Format 4 jointer/planer. It is true that the 12" machines do have relatively short tables. I think the Felder and the Knapp 12" machines are 64" however you can add 20" cast iron extension tables to either side. Thus lengthening the beds if necessary. As Iain mentioned these machines are very common in Europe and can be quite large. Hoffman and Casolin both make a 24" machine, that are not imported into the USA. Most of the combo j/p's can also take a mortising attachment that is just wheeled up to the machine on a transport unit and bolted on. The cutterhead will have a chuck that accepts the mortising cutter. Great way to quickly cut slot mortisers.
The prices for these machines can run all over the spectrum. A basic 12" from Hammer, Rojek, Robland is in the $3k range. While a big 20" model with computer control can edge toward $20k.
take care,
John

[Dev Emch]

John & Charlie...

It is true that some high end planers have rubber rollers but let me expain here what I know. That is, Martin and Hofmann.

The rollers are segmented and changing segments is pretty easy. Its not the same as a segmented infeed roller where you have suspension springs to deal with.

Also, you can order these planers or combo planers with steel outfeed rollers if you desire. This extends the life of the machine but you loose some capability on very thin stuff. Of course, if you service the rubber rollers, your back in business. The steel rollers just dont need the baby sitting later on.

Companies like Hofmann actually use a propriatary rubber compund. Its a trade secret and these rollers are much harder than those on most other planers. So its not really comparing apples to apples.

Lastly, these two planers can also be had with twin outfeed rollers in which the second outfeed roller is under a cantelever arm suspension system with heavy springs running down the inner sides of the machine. You need to dial these in every so often to maintain accuracy and its not hard. Just one more thing to do. But the setup works very well and its worthwhile to go this way.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Thank you, all, for excellent information on the merits and reasons for owning a combo planer/jointer.

Frank - I hear you about cord length. Nothing worse than being a little too short from the wall. Reminds me of how upset I was many years ago when I bought an electric stapler. There was this few inches of cord with a plug hanging off the back. I immedietely dove into the box like a dog digging for a bone in the backyard, only to be realize that the pigtail cord was all I was getting.

Thanks,
Shiraz.