Looking for DC recommendations

[Doug Shepard]

Well like Rosanne Rosannah Danna used to say: "If it aint one thing, it's another". After a couple days of resaw practice with the new MM16 it's real obvious that I'm going to finally have to buy a dedicated DC setup. I've been using a very large DeWalt shop vac, and that's been OK enough for use with the router table, old Jet BS, Spindle sander, and even the PM66 TS. Not stellar performance, but OK enough to get me by. The wider kerf from the carbide Tri-Master blade on the MM16 generates too much dust for the vac to even attempt to keep up with, and with no lower cabinet like on the PM66 to contain the excess....

So I thought I'd ask for some recommendations. My criteria is:
1) It must be 110V
2) I'm extremely limited on space to store one, so the smaller the better. Will one of those little portable jobs get me by? Or am I going to need one of the upright types?
3) If not a portable type, it must be mountable on a mobile base.
4) Will need to be easily swapped from one machine to another.
5) The MM manual says I want 800 CFM. Couldn't find anything in the PM66 manual regarding a CFM requirement, but I'd have to believe it generates less dust and needs less than the MM16.

Anybody have any recommendations of which makes/models I should start looking at?

[Michael Gabbay]

Since you are limited to 110 you'll probably have to keep it under 1.5 hp. I'm not sure if the Oneida Gorilla 2hp can run at 110. If you can get the Oneida at 110 then by all means do it. If not I'd go with a Jet/Delta/JDS with a 1 micron bag or cartridge.

my 2 cents.

And no more smut!!!! :D

[Chris Lee]

Doug,
I have the 2hp Dust Gorilla on my MM16 and it gets most of the dust but it is 220 only. I think Oneida and Grizzly both make smaller 1.5 hp units that will probably do the job if they are close to the machines. I would not get one of those little roll arounds. My FIL has one for his Epilog Laser engraver and it barely gets all the stuff when right next to the machine. There are medium units that will do the job but they are not really small.

Chris

[Cecil Arnold]

Doug, Chris is right, I have a Jet 1100CK and it does not have enough power to get even most of the dust from my MM16. It is adiquite for my Jet CS, a 6" jointer, and even fair for a 13" plainer and does a good job on a table router. Look at the 1 1/2 hp cyclones, or better yet get some additional 220v piped in.

[Andy Hoyt]

Doug - Why are you limiting yourself to 110? I'm no electrician, but I've seen a number of easy and affordable ways to produce a 220 circuit just about anywhere.

[Doug Shepard]

...
And no more smut!!!! :D

OK - I promise. I think it would be kind of hard for me to top that gloat thread anyway. I'm content to be a one-hit wonder.

[Tom Jones III]

What is your goal on dust collection? To not have to sweep as much? To have certifiably heatlhy air?

[Brett Baldwin]

Hi Doug, I've been lurking all around the site for a few weeks now and have really been impressed with the general level of quality in both the people and information here. I thought I'd pass this observation on to you since it seems a good fit. I've also been looking into a future DC purchase and I've been seeing some positive posts about the Central Machinery (Harbor Freight) 2 H.P. DC around here. Frankly I'm a bit surprised as the quality I've seen from them in general has been less than great but it is seems that a few people here have them and are satisfied to some extent. It is on a rolling base and has a 110V/14A motor and 1600cfm advertised. The downside is that the bags it comes with are 30 micron which pretty much demands an upgrade for health reasons. Maybe you could search out some postings on it if that piques your interest.

[Doug Shepard]

What is your goal on dust collection? To not have to sweep as much? To have certifiably heatlhy air?

I don't mind the sweeping so much, although it is a bit tedious. I've got one of the JDS units hanging on the ceiling for filtering the ambient air, but the MM16 is putting out some serious dust. Broom and dustpan will be replaced with a snow shovel and wheelbarrow unless I improve the DC setup. The PM66 put out some ambient dust, but is was minor in comparison. The other concern is keeping the dust from building up inside the MM16. There's really no where for it to go that isn't directly interfering with moving parts if it builds up bad enough. Sooner or later that's got to affect the performance or life of the saw.

Everyone's comments on the 220 caused me to go out and check what's there. I thought what I had was 2 220 outlets on opposite sides of the garage, but on the same circuit - so only 1 220 machine running at a time. Looking more closely I realize they are on separate circuits so I could run 2 machines simultaneously. There's also room on the breaker panel to put another 220 circuit in if need be.

That still leaves me with the size problem though. I Googled over to Oneida's website and what's there looks impressive, but even their very smallest unit is an absolute no-go size-wise. Taking some of the other suggestions, I just briefly browsed through the Jet website and think there might be something there. At least there's a large selection. I'll limit my search there to stuff with more power than the 1100CK though. Still have to check out the Delta, JDS, and HF sites to check their specs.

From the little bit that I've seen, I do have one question already. What's the major difference with the canister vs. bag types. Are the canister types inherently better? Worse? Same?

[Bernie Weishapl]

I just ordered the HF Dust Collector. It is on sale for $159 + $8.99 shipping. I also ordered the Wyn 80/20 paper filter cartridge with the bottom plastic bags. It is 99.99% efficient at .5 micron according to Wyn and Bill Pentz. It is $82 + $19.99 shipping. I was talking with Jeff Sudmeier and he is well pleased with his. I also saw one in action at woodworking shop and it seemed to do a excellent job. He had 3 machines hooked up with blast gates which is what I am hoping to do with 5 inch ducting. It has a rolling base which what I will need if I can't get it hooked up soon because my shop is small. I made a place for it in the corner. So hopefully for $270 I will have a decent DC.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Doug when I e-mailed Bill Pentz, he and Wyn said the cartridge filter is the best by far. You might check out this site. http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm I got the 35A274BLOL which is what both recommended for what I am doing as a hobbiest. He said if I was doing more serious woodworking he would get the other filter 35A100SBOL.

[skip gleichman]

When I move, I am getting a cyclone very first thing... but for now I have a 850cfm penn state and it works extremely well as long as the .5 micron filter is clean. After an hours work, it stops sucking enough though and I need to shut down, tap all around the filter, empty the bag etc... then after it's clean, not a spec of dust even with my drum sander... The cyclone systems (good ones) are designed so those filters don't clog... all is seperated first...

a canister filter will work too (do use a good filter 1 micron or less) but you will need to keep it clean whether it is an 850cfm, 1100cfm or 2300cfm DC...

[Joe Koren]

I asked the same question in October though I did not have the electrical limitation. Click on the link:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=25363

I counted the votes ... so to speak ... and the most recommended was for teh Oneida, two or three for the Clearvue, and one or two for a few others (The Woodsucker comes to mind).

Personally, I also have a small shop (two car garage) that will be shared with some home items and I am going for a Oneida, I just have not decided on the two or three HP.

Good Luck,
Joe

[Wes Bischel]

Doug,

I'm going the HF DC/Wynn filter route as well. I just picked up the DC at the local HF store - $159.99 web price and a 20% off coupon -

http://ww2.harborfreightusa.com/showpage_retail.taf?pageid=214&email=

Total: $135.67 out the door. I'm going to order the filter tomorrow.

I would love a Oneida cyclone, but I just don't put enough sawdust through it to justify the cost (even if I could afford it:rolleyes: ).

FWIW,

Wes

[Chris Lee]

Doug,
I am with you on the space issue. I do everything out of a 22x22 2 car garage that has to have enough space in the middle for the wife's car, my truck wouldn't fit if the garage was empty.:D

I figured I would never have room for a cyclone either, but make sure you look at the footprint of all the machines. My Gorilla really only takes up 4ftx2ft. It's mounted in the cornerso really I only lose about 30" square, with the filter extending about 18" or so from there, but that only comes halfway down, so I have room underneeth the filter for storage. Most of the bag units I looked at had a bade that was about 3ft x 2ft or in that area. Not much difference when you start to look at it. It's really nice to dump out that bin after milling up some lumber and realize that 35 gallons of wood dust would be all over my shop without it.:eek:

Chris

[Doug Shepard]

Well I did a lot of online research last night and this morning. While I may come to wish I had a cyclone system, there just isn't any place to put one based on the sizes I've looked at. So, going on the assumption that I won't have a perfect setup, but that any of these is going to be a huge imiprovement over the shop-vac setup I have now, here's the short list I was able to come up with. If I grease things up well and push real hard I think I can manage to wedge one of these into my cramped quarters. If you had to select from one of these, what would you pick? If I've missed something else that's in the same ballpark, please chime in.

Delta #50-850A
110V 1.5 HP 1200 CFM Static Pressure 11.4" 2 micron canister filter
$410 @ amazon (after %50 mail in rebate)
27 x 37 x 88
http://www.deltamachinery.com/index.asp?e=136&p=4954

Jet DC-1200CK
220V 2HP 1200 CFM Static Pressure 11.44" 80-85 dB 2 micron canister filter
$500 @ amazon
28" x 37" x 70-7/8"
http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cfm?area=shop&action=detail&iid=12920

Grizzly G0548
220 2HP 1700 CFM Static Pressure 10" 74 dB 1 micron canister filter
$557 (incl S&H)
31.5 x 37.5 x 71
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.aspx?itemnumber=G0548

Central Machinery #45378
110V 2HP 1600CFM 30 micron bag filter
$160 ($135.67 if I buy today before their 20% offer expires)
Plus $??? for Canister kit ?
22 x 33 x 75.5
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45378

ShopFox W1666
220V 2HP 1550 cfm Static Pressure 12.3" 30 micron bag filter
$336 @ amazon
21.5 x 33 x 78
http://www.shopfoxtools.com/w1666

JDS #16001
110/230 1.5 HP 1250 CFM 12" Static pressure, 67-77 dB 1 micron canister filter
$499 @ amazon
? x ? x 76"H
http://www.jdstools.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=3


Bridgewood BW-002AC
110/220 2 HP 1100 CFM 5" S.P. 1 micron canister filter
22” x 44” x 79” H
$479 @ Wilke
http://www.wilkemachinery.com/default.tpl?action=full&cart=1131468514149119&id1=6&--woSECTIONSdatarq=6&--SECTIONSword=ww&--eqskudatarq=2177

[Ron Fritz]

Doug; I'm in a basement workshop and had limited space as well. I went with the HF DC mostly due to price and the positive reviews it always seemed to get. I also added a Wyn filter and a separator. It all works very well together. I have 4" lines going to my RAS, planer and jointer and the collection at each is very good. Everything else has a short length of 2 1/2" hose off a main 4" line. You can see a photo of this in this link. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=25451
Ron

[Jim Becker]

Doug...is your space issue vertical or horizontal? If the latter you can't get smaller than the cyclone! If you don't have the head-room, that's a different story that may require more creativity to use a cyclone, however.

[Bert Johansen]

Doug,
The following are in the "for what it's worth" category.

1. Go with 220V. It is not difficult to add another outlet, and you will have more options.

2. Yes, 200V units are bigger. That's what you want! Consider hanging the unit from your ceiling to avoid your limited floor space.

3. Upgrading the HF unit with 0.5 micron filters will significantly LOWER your CFM. The factory 20 micron filters are not an oversight--that's how they can claim such a high CFM and get by with 110V.

Bert

[Steven Wilson]

Go with the Jet 1200CK - The filter media is pretty good but you'll still want to wear a respirator for fine dust. The Air Filter units are good for cleaning the air after the fact but they do nothing to protect you while you're producing the dust (you breath what they do). As for ducting, remove the 6 x4x4 wye on the front and run some 6" flex to your machines and then step down to 4" (or whatever) at the machine. You should give Oneida a call and as if anyone has a 2hp unit in use in your area. My Oneida 2hp commercial takes less floor space than Jet 1200CK or 1100CK.

[tod evans]

i don`t know how much cost is a factor but here`s a link to blowers http://www.wilkemachinery.com/default.tpl?action=full&cart=1131468514149119&id1=6&--woSECTIONSdatarq=6&--SECTIONSword=ww&--eqskudatarq=2191 using one of these and your own motor/filter/cyclone? it is possible to build an upgradable, sized to fit dust collector that will last for the life of your shop. tod

[Rob Russell]

Doug,

There are other options, but they're pricey ($2K+). 37" x 31" x 63", 1900 cfm, .1 micron filtration.

Rob

[Doug Shepard]

Doug...is your space issue vertical or horizontal? If the latter you can't get smaller than the cyclone! If you don't have the head-room, that's a different story that may require more creativity to use a cyclone, however.

It's primarily a floor space issue. There is a vertical limit as well but I think it's high enough that even the 2 HP Oneida Dust Gorilla cyclone might just fit. When you say "can't get smaller than the cyclone" are you just counting the size of the main tower section? If so I'd probably agree with you. But it's the filter appendages that hang off the side that start to make the cyclones too darn big for my space. I went back to my short-list post and added the dimensions and filter specs - plus added a Bridgewood model that I'd overlooked and Tod Evans reply steered me to. I'm already cringing at the sizes of the ones on my short list, but for comparison I got the dimensions off the Dust Gorilla, and it's 25.5 x 50 x 91 and their 1.5 HP model is 20-something x 45.5 x 85.25. Most of the ones on my list are either 33" or 37" wide but the depth isn't all that different from the cyclones (in the 20's). The only place I could put a cyclone would require evicting my jointer, Performax 16-32, and probably the router table too. Unfortunately there's no place else for them to go. Evicting the one vehicle that still needs to park in the 2-car garage also isn't an option. Right now I'm hoping that something along the lines of the ones on my list will just fit between the jointer/sander/router and front of the vehicle. If that doesn't work I'll probably have to clog the narrow aisleway between the back of my TS and where the DP, lathe, and wood storage are (for storing the DC - it would get wheeled out for use).

I have one possible alternative along the lines of Tod's reply, but it would have to be a custom installation, and I'm not even sure how feasible it would be. I do have open space above the rafters. Is is possible to put the main cyclone section up there with a longer hose drop to both the collection drum and the dust collection line? And what about the filter? If the main cyclone section were up there, would the filter have to be up there too? How often do you need to access either of those parts? I'm not even sure what kinds of questions to ask regarding possibly locating it there. I have a vague notion of having the collection drum on a MB, rolling it underneath the cyclone and connecting it, then hooking the dust collection line to a quick connect fitting even with the bottom of the ceiling joists.... There's probably some serious problems with this idea, but thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone has done anything along those lines.

[Andy Hoyt]

Doug - my gray matter just kicked in. I suggest you check out this thread

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=17821

and if that gets you interested, then check this one out

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=17721

This is Lou Sansone's shop tour in Connecticut - which has a marginally similar climate to Michigan. Look at the exterior photos of his shop. Perhaps you could do the same.

[tod evans]

doug,lous shop has one of the slickest d/c installations i`ve seen. in my shop i have a 1930`s blower mounted in the attic, being a poor country boy i built my own chip seperator and seperate bag-house so my approach to the discharge side probably won`t work for you, but a pump of whatever brand mounted in your attic with the duct work upstairs also... drops to each machine.......and an inline cyclone upstairs with a chip discharge downstairs and your conditioned air returning to your workspace.........place the filter upstairs in a box that`s vented through the ceiling........i gotta get to work! hope these suggestions provoke thought? tod............. p.s.buying something ready made isn`t always the best solution!

[Jim Becker]

Doug, you don't have to mount the filter directly to the cyclone...my filter is about 4' away from my Oneida 2hp Commercial unit to provide "code clearance" in front of the breaker box. It can easily be extended quite a ways from the system to accomodate your space restrictions. All you need to extend it is two round to square flanges; one bolts to the cyclone outlet and one bolts to the filter. I have my filter hung from the ceiling using the conveniently located attachment points already on it with duct work between it. Since this is lower pressure, you can even use insulated flex duct for greater convenience and increased noise reduction.

[Steven Wilson]

I found that my Oneida 2HP commercial took up just a little more space than a Jet DC 650. You'll notice from the photo that I was able to wedge the back of my drill press in between the cyclone and the filter.

[Doug Shepard]

Oy Vey! More research and measuring to do. I'll find out exactly how much space I have overhead and where I'd want to locate all the bits and pieces and check out the cost of going with a custom cyclone before I bite the bullet. Thanks for all the feedback.

[Wes Bischel]

Doug,

Jim has a good point - if you look at just the cyclone footprint, it should be smaller than most roll around DCs. Maybe there is room above the rafters for the filters? Or above a smaller machine? If possible, (financially and space wise) the cyclone is the way to go. As I said, I would love one, but the height and cost prohibit a purchase.

OBTW, it looks like the HF coupon has been renewed - but you can only use one a week!:D :rolleyes: Oh, since you asked previously, the cost of the filter kits from Wynn are $82 (paper) or $118 (spun poly - washable) plus shipping.

Good luck, in some ways I am grateful I didn't have that much of a choice!:o

Wes

[Jesse Cloud]

Here's an 'out of the box' idea... if you can provide access to the outdoors for a six inch pipe, (e.g., thru a window - build a plywood frame with a six inch hole), then put the cycle outside in a little shed or something for some level of weather protection. Additional benefit is that it keeps down the noise level and you can vent outside, might not even need a filter if you are in the country. Downside is that you will have to provide 'make-up' air from the outside and that will be outdoor temperature....

[Jim Becker]

Jesse, yes it can be "outside" and a number of folks do that. The reference in the thread above to Lou Sansone's installation was actually refering to that. You do still need to return the air to the shop if you heat or A/C (and it's not optional if you heat with a flame), but you can free up space and reduce noise by mounting the cyclone in an adjacent shed, etc. It's a nice place to put a big compressor for the same reason. (I would have done this, but it was not possible with my shop building due to much of it being sunk into the hillside)

[Doug Shepard]

Allrighty. I got my overhead rafter space measured and got some dimensioned diagrams for both the 2HP Dust Gorilla and the ClearVue system. The tallest available space is right above the auto parking space and neither system completely fits in the rafters. I did the calculations from the lowest slope point in the space, so I can get a few more inches pushed upward before the highest point on the units hits the roof, but I attached pics (with my annotations in red) that show the fit. The Oneida has a slight edge with less projecting down beneath the joists and might just be doable without hitting the roof of the vehicle (van). I've got some more measuring to do just to be sure.

So here's some more dumb questions: I'd like to locate the filter unit up there too, with the bottom of it even with the bottom of the joists. Could the filter unit be raised upward as well? Or does the duct that run from the cyclone to the filter have to be horizontal or downward sloping?

[Randy French]

Doug - you may have seen this already, but take a look at the Oneida installation section on their web site. Under the 2HP Systems, look for the "2HP PRO - DAN HILL" link (near the bottom). He installed his system in the attic and you may be able to get some additional ideas from the pictures there. I may do something like this as well when it comes time to install mine.

Randy

[Mike Monroe]

Doug - Don't know if this will help you, but I just installed a Grizzly G0440 in my basement workshop. I built my own stand for the unit and oriented the exhaust on the same side as the intake. With the intake and exhaust on the same side the footprint is 26" x 52". I have 93.5 " from the floor to the bottom of the overhead floor joists and the top of the blower motor is 2-3 inches below that. Since I made my own stand I took an inch off the height, as I want to be sure to clear the rafters when I stood the beast up - assembly of the unit was done on the floor. Center of the intake is 66" above the floor; the Grizzly spec. sheet has it at 67". The G0440 is sitting in a corner with the intake along a long wall. Now I get to figure out all the pipe and fittings I need to plumb the thing.

-Mike

[Roy Wall]

Doug,

I would imagine the duct will HAVE to curve Downward to the filter cartridge...

Another dimension to consider: The Gorilla comes with a 12" flex hose to connect bottom of cyclone to the dust bin. This is the preferred length as it is easier to remove the bin for dumping. However, I believe you can cut the hose to a Minumum of 6" - this allows 2" clamp to cyclone, 2" clamp to the dust bin collar, and 2" flex inbetween--- the MINUMUM!

Enclosed is a pick, not the best....but handy.... I left the flex hose 12" long because my garage is about 11'-4" in height..

[Travis Porter]

Just curious, but it looks like your ductwork does a full 180 back to your drill press. Is this per Oneida design?

[Jim Becker]

Doug, if the space "up there" is enclosed, you'll want to drop the filtration down below it so the air is returned to the shop. If not...no big deal. No problem with the long drop to the bin and do use a 55 gallong bin since you'll have the headroom to do so.

[Dan Forman]

Doug---Here a couple of recent links, the first is the one I was referring to earlier.

A work of warning, folks can be very opinionated about dust collectors, and some interesting claims are made for and against various brands which are difficult to substantiate based on the feedback of owners I have found here. Specifically, if said claims were true, one would expect Oneida owners to complain of excessive amounts of dust in their filters, which doesn't seem to be the case.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=24003&highlight=cyclone

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=23538&highlight=cyclone

Dan

[Doug Shepard]

Doug---Here a couple of recent links, the first is the one I was referring to earlier.

A work of warning, folks can be very opinionated about dust collectors, ....
Dan

Muchos gracias. I'll check these out.
I hear you about the heated debates. I've picked up on that quite a bit reading through the recent DC threads (this one included). Hard to believe folks can get so wound up over a big vacuum cleaner;) Darn good thing I didn't start asking about crock pots or I'm sure we'd have a war going on.:D