Do picture frames need splines?

[Dan McGonigle]

Hey guys, I’m rushing trying to finish up 4 picture frames for Christmas gifts. When making picture frames I normally spline the miters to reinforce the joint but also to add visual interest with a contrasting wood. In this case I do not want splines for the sake of visual interest but am I wondering if my joints will fail without them. The frames are mahogany with a thin strip of maple inlayed 1/4” from the outside edges. If splining the joints for reinforcement is necessary I will use mahogany to not distract from the rest of the frame, but even then there will be a noticeable grain difference (albeit, likely noticeable to me only) and another step in the process. I’m hoping to have these shellacked and ready for glass Saturday afternoon. Any thoughts appreciated!

[Andrew Hughes]

I think they will fail eventually.If you don't have time to spline them at least shoot a finish nail in the corners and fill the hole. No one will notice the picture in the frame should hold their attention.;)

[Cary Falk]

I would reinforce it with something. Biscuits are great for this if you want it hidden

[Edwin Santos]

A lot of people cut the slot for splines at the table saw or router table with a slotting cutter. Both of these will do a good job but you have to make a carrier jig of some kind. If you have a biscuit joiner, the photo attached demonstrates another quick way.
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[Edwin Santos]

I don't know how wide your picture frame material is, but if it is wide enough for this technique, also using a biscuit joiner, it might be a way to reinforce the joint and keep the spline hidden.

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[Lee Schierer]

When gluing mitered corners you are essentially gluing end grain. Apply glue to both sides of the joint and you will get a much stronger joint.

[Doug Hepler]

Dan,

I doubt that you need splines. Miter joints are considerably stronger than conventional wisdom suggests. See MacKenna FWW Jan/Feb 2009. He found that miter joints are strong but he is concerned that they can weaken with time because of seasonal wood movement. Maybe that would be true if the boards were wide, but I suspect that it is more a theoretical problem than a real one. "Prime" the mating surfaces with PVC adhesive. Let it soak in a bit and they apply a bit more adhesive.

If the frame will be suspended from the vertical pieces, and if the glass is heavy, you might consider reinforcing the bottom corners. You can use a gusset on the back of the frame or finishing nails driven in horizontally (as it would hang). Drill for the nails. Since I don't know how much weight or how much surface area we are concerned with I can only offer a tentative answer.

Doug

[Shawn Pixley]

I’d offer that heavier / larger frames need splines. I am working to repair 3 pieces that failed in my house. (No, I didn’t frame them myself). One will need thicker frame material as the glass weight has pushed out the frame at the bottom.

[Brian Henderson]

Need? No. Greatly benefit from? Yes. You need something to reinforce the corner, be it a dowel or a spline or staples. Butt and miter joints are just not that strong on their own. How you do it depends on the design of your frame and the aesthetic you're going for.

[Jim Becker]

"Size Matters". Smaller frames will not likely need a lot of reinforcement beyond a brad or two through the corners to lock things together. The glass and other materials works to keep things tidy. Larger frames will be better served with some form of reinforcement. It can be invisible splines, Dominos, biscuits, dowels, whatever or visible splines as a design statement. Another method, if you are doing a "built up" frame is having the base layer half-lapped which is super strong due to the huge glue surface.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Edwin:

Thanks for sharing your approach; it will give me an opportunity to get the biscuit joiner out of the box it has been sitting in since I bought the Domino.

[roger paul]

Edwin on your biscuit joiner is that home made or something that can be bought.
Thanks in advance

[Edwin Santos]

Edwin on your biscuit joiner is that home made or something that can be bought.
Thanks in advance

Roger,
Just to clarify the photo came from an article in Wood magazine, but to answer your question this would be a shop made jig. I just cut two 45 degree triangles off a piece of scrap ply and instead of bolting them to the biscuit joiner like the photo shows I fastened them temporarily with hot glue. A high quality double stick tape would do fine also.

I cut the spline material at the bandsaw, but the table saw would do also.

Edwin

[Jim Becker]

That's a really interesting way to do the splines using the biscuit cutter!

[Al Launier]

Good thread Dan.

Jim's suggestion of a half-lap miter joint is really good as it provides a very strong joint.

You might also consider this as an alternative: http://www.rockler.com/rockler-45-deg-lock-miter-router-bits-1-2-in-shank, with this if preferred http://www.rockler.com/router-bit-set-up-jigs-for-22627-45deg-lock-miter-bits

[Jim Becker]

How would you use that cutter for a typical picture frame, Al?

[Art Moore]

I've used this method in the past:


http://lumberjocks.com/projects/19242

[Edwin Santos]

Dan,

I doubt that you need splines. Miter joints are considerably stronger than conventional wisdom suggests.



Doug

You're probably right Doug, especially for case miter joints if you do the glue size priming like you've suggested. However with a picture frame I think of splines, brads or some other type of reinforcement as an inexpensive insurance policy. Why not do it if you can do so quickly and easily and eliminate the chance that the thing might open up someday?

[Stan Calow]

Just a hobbyist, but done a fair number of frames. I use keys (not splines), but for small frames, I invested in a v-nail driver - quick and easy. For large frames, especially mirrors, I'll go with a half-lap joint, pegged or braced with brass if really heavy. My theory is that all my frames need reinforcement, not just for the weight of hanging on the wall, but for the almost certainty that sometime in their life they'll be handled roughly and/or dropped.

[Al Launier]

How would you use that cutter for a typical picture frame, Al?

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooops!!!!!

Looks like I really blew that one. Took the ad literally, but for the wrong application. I was even entertaining the thought of getting one. Glad you caught that bonehead error! You saved me ~$75. :D Thanks.

Back to the half-lap miter. ;)

[roger wiegand]

I've had _many_ miter and glue picture frames fail, ranging from 1/2" frames holding an 8x10 to 36x48" monsters. When I rebuild them, or when I build new, I always add reinforcement. I've done biscuits, splined, and lap miter joints or bridled miter joints. . Stopped splines (or biscuits if your tool gives you a tight fit) are best if you don't want external evidence of the reinforcement, the bridle joint is probably strongest if your frame design tolerates the thickness.

Yes, I'm a strong believer in reinforcement, having spent many "happy" hours repairing the results of not reinforcing.

[Peter Christensen]

I usually use my biscuit tool and position it so the cutter doesn't break through the outside. I then cut the biscuits in half or less so they don't interfere with the glass or picture being installed.

Or I use my mini biscuit tool that Royobi used to make. Hopefully I can find biscuits for it when I run out someday.

[John Gornall]

Lee Valley small biscuits are good for frames - cut the slot on the router table

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32730&cat=1,250,43217,43231

[Mac McQuinn]

I used a biscuit joiner on both the frames I've made. That said, there was a occasion when I needed to turn out a custom sized frame pronto using a pre- existing frame. I took it to a small frame shop, they re-cut the miters on one end, clamped the frame into size and shot a couple of (for lack of correct term) wiggly flat nails into each corner on the back side with an air tool. That was (10 years ago and one of the corners is just starting to pull open. Once they all open up, I'll inject a little TB3 into them and re-clamp.
Mac

[Doug Hepler]

Dan, Edwin, All

I got the impression that Dan (the OP) felt time pressure for his picture frames, so I responded tentatively that he might not need splines, depending on the details of the project, if making them would risk not completing the project on time. I do think that splines are often useful to strengthen a miter joint.

Doug

[Dan McGonigle]

Thanks guy, I think I’ll reinforce the joints. Just to clarify, the “splines” I’m talking about some people may refer to as keys. I’m talking about cutting a slot in the corner of each joint with a sliding jig on the table saw. Then gluing in 1/8” strips, trimming and flushing to achieve a “semi” cross grain glue joint. I think I’ll take the extra step. I can’t imagine those joints ever failing if I do so. Forgot to mention, the frames are 13”x15” with an opening of approx 9”x11” using 3/32” glass. Just to give an idea of how heavy the frame will be.

[Mike Henderson]

My experience with gluing miter joints is that they'll hold - until you drop or otherwise put a lot of stress on them. I now put an interior FF biscuit in miter joints and that seems to add enough strength to keep the joint together, even when stressed.

Mike

[Bill Dufour]

Couldn't find real info on the frame but here is how folks who value a painting reinforced there picture . I suppose it goes to show with out splines it will need to be repaired in under 500 years
Bill

Mona Lisa, oil painting (https://www.britannica.com/art/oil-painting) on a poplar (https://www.britannica.com/plant/poplar) wood panel by the Italian painter, draftsman, sculptor, architect, and engineer Leonardo da Vinci (https://www.britannica.com/biography/Leonardo-da-Vinci), probably the world’s most-famous painting. It was painted sometime between 1503 and 1519, when Leonardo was living in Florence (https://www.britannica.com/place/Florence), and it now hangs in the Louvre (https://www.britannica.com/topic/Louvre-Museum), in Paris (https://www.britannica.com/place/Paris), where it remains an object of pilgrimage in the 21st century. The poplar panel shows evidence of warping and was stabilized in 1951 with the addition of an oak frame and in 1970 with four vertical braces. Dovetails also were added, to prevent the widening of a small crack visible near the centre of the upper edge of the painting. The sitter’s mysterious smile and her unproven identity have made the painting a source of ongoing investigation and fascination.

And on frames.... https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/fram/hd_fram.htm

[Doug Hepler]

The glass will weigh about 13 oz. according to this useful site: https://www.dullesglassandmirror.com/glass-weight-calculator

[Brian Holcombe]

Joined frames are usually quite complex, but iirc they also work as the canvas stretcher. Even very basic canvas stretchers are usually pretty strong and joined construction. They are usually supporting very large moldings which are gilded, any crack in the miter presents as s crack in the gilding.

I join my frames with dovetails and half laps, my simple logic is that anything holding a sheet of glass on the wall aught to be pretty strong,

[Vince Shriver]

I've used these, perpendicular to the miter cut.


Home (https://www.homedepot.com/)
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Home (https://www.homedepot.com/)
Hardware (https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware/N-5yc1vZc21m)
Fasteners (https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware-Fasteners/N-5yc1vZc255)
Nails (https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware-Fasteners-Nails/N-5yc1vZc2dx)
Specialty Nails (https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware-Fasteners-Nails-Specialty-Nails/N-5yc1vZc2dv)


Model # 801794Internet #204274055Store SKU #608867

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https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/f06d651d-ba6c-4ffd-b01d-fd453c60fe69/svn/everbilt-specialty-nails-801794-64_145.jpghttps://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/f06d651d-ba6c-4ffd-b01d-fd453c60fe69/svn/everbilt-specialty-nails-801794-64_145.jpg

[Bill Dufour]

They even make special nail guns to shoot those wavy corrugated joining pieces of metal.
Bil lD

[Tony Leonard]

I was just thinking the same thing. I haven't used it, but I saw it in a book on making clocks. It was the method used for a school marm octagon.


Looks like a good idea and fairly easy to do. Might have to try it next time.

Tony

[Robin Dobbie]

It's my opinion that splines, half-laps, or some kind of inter-piece joint that attaches each piece with glue across the majority, if not the entire joint, is non-negotiable. You could even just glue a piece behind the frame across the miter. Although, that's not as good as something inside.

Splines are pretty easy on the table saw. A jig isn't even necessary. The trickiest part is getting the spline thickness just right. If you don't have a thickness planer it's perhaps trickier, but not impossible. With a thickness planer it's easier to utilize scraps too thin to run though the table saw.

Last time I was at the craft store, well over half their frames had miter joint gaps. Seriously. Some were using those corrugated things. We can assume rough handling was a factor, but also it's possible that there was a wood movement issue. I imagine the miters were cut correctly at the factory. Some of the cracked frames were coated with a plastic molded into a tacky baroque imitation that was also cracked. If joint gaps were impossible(had they used splines or half-laps), I firmly believe most of those frames would have survived.

The mirror frames in my house had miter gaps, and they were MDF. Also had those corrugated fasteners.

[Chris Fournier]

I have made about 60 picture frames for myself. Some have very small cross sectional profiles. I have splined about 4. All of the others are straight glue ups. Had them for up to twenty years. Some required a solid push to get the "art" in place. Not one single failure.

I have found that brushing glue (PVA in my case) on both of the joint faces makes for a stronger joint. I use an acrylic artist's brush and apply a consistent but thin film of glue to both faces twice in an unhurried process. Then I spring clamp the joints and let them sit 30 minutes. Clean up the minimal squeeze out and move on...

Splines are absolutely not necessary in my experience, plenty of frames in the 24" to 36" scale I should mention.

[Jerry Wright]

As long as your frames are in an environment that has reasonable swings in temperature or humidity, one can get away without splined joints. However, I have seen many un-splined corners open up when stored in out buildings. I have built about 300 frames for a pro photographer and am speaking from personal experience. I now spline or securely brad nail all mitered joints. It is a shortcut that I am unwilling to take, now.