Tom Fidgen, Frame saw and kerf saw

[Mike Holbrook]

Bad Axe is selling kits to make one or both of these, saws. The kerf saw is apparently used to establish a set of lines/kerfs to saw from. The frame saw is a size that Bad Axe thinks most people can use to make long difficult rips with. I am wondering if anyone has built these saws and has experience with them to report on. I believe Fidgen has written a book which describes making and using these tools.

[James Waldron]

Shannon Rogers (The Renaissance Woodworker) has several posts and at least one good video on using his frame saw. http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/?s=frame+saw As I think I recall, he built the "kerf saw" and then found it unhelpful and not neccesary and discontinued its use. I also think he used the Bad Axe blade/kit and also procured some custom blacksmith-made hardware for his handles. He speaks very highly of Bad Axe products and support. YMMV.

[Mark AJ Allen]

Before I get into my opinion, I will say after extensively researching the topic and experimenting with it, I don't believe there is a single, optimal way to resaw by hand; it depends on you, your tools and your shop setup. Therefore you will get many opinions that vary widely; Tom is a proponent, as is Shannon Rogers, though both have different methods for resawing. There are other respected woodworkers who play in the historical arena who are not.

I have made 2 frame saws with kits from Blackburn Tools as well as a kerfing plane with his gulleted blade. I have also made a number of prototypes with bucksaw blades, etc... prior to working with the Blackburn tools kits. Based on my experiments, I have concluded:

1. A higher blade on your frame saw gives you more beam strength and helps maintain straight cuts.
2. A kerf does improve straightness of cuts IF you take full advantage of it in your resawing method
3. Kerfing Plane sawplate tooth geometry impacts kerfing plane performance (well duh, but it's not that simple)
4. More 'behaved' grain gives straighter cuts (and thus, a flatter resaw surface)

I think those are the least subjective parts of my experience. The rest of this email is just my opinion:

I don't think the Roubo-style frame saws are ideal for resawing 'regular' sized boards for hobby guys in basement/garage shops. They might have been vogue in 1600's when 24" wide boards were common, woodworking wasn't a hobby and labour was cheap (or expendable even!!). They are cumbersome to use, setup, maintain and store. I also think that we don't give enough credit to the engineering required to make an effective Frame saw; I believe the mass of the saw is a delicate balance with the tooth geometry; either you get a heavy saw that bogs down in the cut or a light saw that skips through, wasting your efforts.

On the other hand, kerfing planes have been my revelation; the kerfing saw creates the guide for the resawing task ... and it works well if you use it to full advantage in your resawing method. I have found there are a number of critical factors when making a kerfing plane an effective tool for resawing:

- The fence and the saw plate are co-planer
- The fence does NOT move when locked into the setting you want
- The kerfing plane sawplate thickness should be SLIGHTLY undersized to the resaw plate; certainly NOT wider


So where am I now?

My kerfing plane (still in design) is a set of planes with fixed fences, fixed at 1/8", 1/4" and 1/2" from the sawplate (what more do you need?). The blade is swappable; it's from Blackburn Tools and it has the deep circular gullets. At this point, it's important to note that your plate will pack up FAST, so you have to either use the kerfing plane as you would a plow plane (short strokes starting at the end and progressing as the groove is created), or create the plate so it has fewer teeth and more room for chips (my own preference). I also think you only need the kerf to go about 1/2" deep for effective guidance in resawing.

My resaw is an abomination of a Western panel saw (5 PPI I think) re-handled at the TOE and used like a Japanese Pull saw; it addresses what I think are the shortcomings of the framesaw. It's performance is less critical to its design and more flexible to how I use it than the frame saw, as well as the benefits to it's size and mass compared to a frame saw. I believe the Japanese guys had this nailed at some point (check out their whale backed saws) though again, knowledge lost with the dead.

My method is to 'cut corners'; I flip the board frequently in my leg vice and focus on reducing the corners of the kerf; as I remove the 4 corners, I work towards the center of the board, evening out any variations from the plane of the kerf. I have found this the most effective way to deal with poorly behaved grain wood. I work with wedges as necessary, though I find SOME pinching is desirable.

[john zulu]

I have the kerf plane. I GAVE up using it and use the bandsaw when it comes to ripping now. But out of desperation. I would use it again with the framesaw*which I don't own*.
The main issue is price. When you add it up it makes no more sense in it's cost.

[Oskar Sedell]

Hi Mike,

I recently finished the Bad axe frame saw, but not the kerfing plane. By flipping the board over regularly it is not hard to rip straight, even without kerfing before. Note, so far I've only resawed stock up to about 5'' wide. By tilting the board away from you there is always a kerf on the far side to guide the blade, and one must only focus on sawing to the visible line. I'm convinced, that with more training the number of "flips" per cut can be taken down radically.

The saw cuts nice and fast. It is not so easy to correct the saw cut, if it starts off in the wrong direction. It pays off to be very careful about initiating the cut.

The Renaissance Woodworker made a really long video about resawing, where he didn't even manage to stay on the line. Use that time to saw some boards, and it will pay off way more than watching.

There is also a video somewhere from Colonial Williamsburg, showing how to look for, and removing twist in the blade with winding sticks and a hammer. I found this very helpful and important (again, stressing my limited experience).

When time permits I will complete the kerfing plane as well, to see the difference for myself. Still undecided on how to make the fence.

Also, I don't have any other means (except a 300mm Ryoba) to rip/resaw wide boards (no electric saws at all). As such I'm very satisfied with my frame saw.

[Warren Mickley]

I first saw the scie a rendre in Roubo in 1973. We called these saws Veneer saws for many years. In 19th century catalogs their blades are called Veneer webs. I started resawing in 1974 (I have never used a machine for resawing), and made a Veneer saw in 1981. I have sawed stuff in the 4-14 inch range, but mostly in the 6 to 12 inch range.
My impression is that both Fidgen and Rogers became experts in this without much actual experience. Fidgen announced he was going to be a hand tool woodworker and within the year had written a book to enlighten other beginners.
I tried a kerfing plane around 1985 for a while because I knew machine woodworkers who kerfing for resawing, but I still have never seen any historical references to anything like this. I abandoned the pre kerf because it did improve time or accuracy.
I can reccomend Isaac Smith's ( Blackburn Tools) Roubo type veneer saws; I have tried them on several occasions, thje four foot saw with Issac on the other end, the three foot alone.

[Mike Holbrook]

Apparently opinions on these two types of saws are as variable as the saws themselves. Maybe this thread will serve others interested in these tools as well. Thanks to all the posters who have contributed their thoughts.

It may take a while to sort through varriations of these two tools to come up with optimal tool types, as is often the case. There is good information above for those who may want to try either tool though. Maybe those who are working on variations will update us on progress and their discoveries.

[Sydney Smith]

I use my kerfing plane occasionally, do not have a frame saw yet. Building the plane was an enjoyable project, and it looks neat sitting on the shelf when you're done.

[Mike Holbrook]

Warren, Thanks for mentioning Blackburn Tools and their saws. I have not been to that web site in a while and was interested to see what Issac is offering now. I have been searching for a place that offers old school bow saw & “Rubo” blades. Nice kits for people who like to make their own tools.