It's This One Again: Recommended Finish Table Saw Blade?

[Clay Anderson]

Well, I'm hoping some of you folks can cut through the confusion for me a bit.

I've been reading about different saw blade types on here for a while but can't seem to settle; I'm a bit unclear on blade types. The first blade I bought was a Freud D1040X 40T ATB General Purpose. It does well with general cutting, but the finish definitely leaves something to be desired, even when the feed rate/pressure is babied.

For an improvement, I originally settled on an 80T from Freud, but then saw many folks recommending the Forrest Woodworker II and a Forrest 80T. Do I need high tooth count for ripping, or is that for crosscutting? It seems "smooth" rippers have low tooth counts.

I suppose I'm looking for two things:

A better general purpose blade (this D1040X seems a bit rough even for a combo/general purpose)
A better "finishing" blade (for jointing without a jointer and cleaning up edges of rough stock)


I was hoping I could get by with one, but if it takes two blades to do these two tasks well, that's totally understandable.

[George Bokros]

For ripping you want a lower tooth count. The Freud Glue Line Rip blade is excellent.

[Robert Engel]

Clay, This is an excellent question. Lots of people get confused about blades. I can only speak from experience so don't take it as gospel.

Higher teeth counts are for xcutting. The higher the teeth count the finer the cut.

Ripping bladed are lower tooth count, usually 24-32 teeth. There are basically two rip grinds: flat top and a combo of flat top and finish teeth which is your glue line rip (eg. the Freud LU74R010) .

To answer your specific questions, I don't recommend a "general purpose blade" such as a combo blade. Lots of guys use them, ok for ripping but IME I'm not satisfied with the xcuts.
One the glue line rip, even though I use one, I never expect to get a final finish off a saw cut. I use a hand plane to tune the edge. I like to have both a 24 flat top and 32 glue line. When plowing grooves, or dados, the flat top tooth is best. When ripping or using a tenon jig, the glue line rip excels. I can change a blade in <60 seconds is not a big deal.

Generally I've had very good experience with Freud blades. I really like CMT even better. I've also heard the Amana and Infinity blades are very good. I've never owned a Forrest but I will eventually just to see if the expense is worth it. In the mean time those blades do an excellent job for me.

My recommendation to you is get a glue line rip and 60T Xcut. Hope this helps.

[Bill Adamsen]

My standard blade is an FS Tool 12" 60 tooth 4mm (thick) combination blade. I have several and when sharp they are exceptionally versatile. I find the cut on plywood and engineered woods to be good enough for face frame construction. Solid woods I joint and plane so while the cut finish is good having it perfect is less of an issue. The combo blade is definitely the most versatile and when performing to specification is really all I need. Biggest drawback is the large kerf.

I also use a 12" 36 tooth glue line rip and a 12" 100 tooth engineered material blade (Forrest HiAT) which is fairly thin kerf for a 30mm arbor blade. But even super sharp, it creates significant resistance from all the teeth when cutting. Both are purpose designed blades and require replacement when needing to use the saw for any purpose for which they're not designed. Hence the attractiveness of the combo blade.

There was a recent thread here on Kanefusa sawblades (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?258173-Kanefusa-saw-blades)that you might find helpful.

[Jim Becker]

I've enjoyed my Forrest blades for a long time and haven't felt the urge to change to anything new. I actually just bought a 12" 48T WW-II blade for my slider to begin weaning myself off the older 10" blades that's I've had since about 2000. One reason that I stick to what I know is because the blade thickness is consistent and when I was researching 12" blades prior to this recent purchase, I kept coming up with kerf widths that just were not the "standard" .125" (1/8"). A mismatch would result in a hassle with my scoring blade as well as with the scales on the slider side of the blade.

That said, there are many fine blades to choose from. My recent purchase was from Silvers Mill and their prices on Forrest are attractive.

[Mark Wooden]

+1 on combination blades; I also machine most of my solid stock so having a glass smooth finish is not as important to me as having a blade that performs well across all operations. I hate having to change sawblades for a few cuts several times a day. I currently have a couple of ATB&R from Stehle that I really like- http://www.stehle-int.com/static/stehle/en/saw-blades/flipviewerxpress.html,
They're availible from most tooling dealers I think.
I also have a few Forrest blades(very good) and keep STG's for ripping and some TCG for veneer ply and such.

[Matt Day]

The Freud Glue Line Rip blade is excellent.

+1.0000000

[Geoff Crimmins]

I also use a Freud rip blade and 80-tooth crosscut blade that I use when cutting hardwoods. It's kind of a hassle to change between them, but less so if I plan ahead more so I can do all of my ripping first, and then do all of the crosscutting. I also have a cheap Ace Hardware combination blade that I use for cutting construction lumber and other things where the quality of the cut isn't very important.

--Geoff

[Prashun Patel]

I use a Freud glue line Rip for ripping as well as cross cutting. The quality of the finish diminishes as the wood get harder and thicker.

I became much happier when I accepted that every surface off the table saw benefits from clean up. It takes less time to clean up than it does to switch to an optimized blade.
I use the freud Gl rip for everything now.

[glenn bradley]

Tablesaw blades get unusually personal responses. These are wear items. Expensive and preferably long-life wear items but, wear items just the same. There are definitely those who slap a 40 tooth Forrest Woodworker II on their saw and just run it till its dead. My standard compliment is a 24 or 30 tooth rip, a 40 or 50 tooth general purpose and a 60 or 80 tooth crosscut.

[Joe Spear]

I use a 40-tooth WW II for crosscutting and ripping. For stock up to one inch thick, the ripped edges are smooth enough to glue up without any other preparation. For stock that is thicker, I use a 30-tooth WW II and get the same results. I have also used a Freud Fusion 40-tooth and a Ridge Carbide 40-tooth with similar results.

[Andrew Seemann]

I have about a half dozen good blades for the table saw, but for the most part, the Forrest Woodworker II 40 tooth stays on almost all the time. It crosscuts well, and the rip cut is normally good enough to not justify the time to switch to a dedicated rip blade. The finish is actually pretty good, and easier to sand out than the ripples of the jointer or planer. The only bad thing is that it can be hard to push in thicker/harder woods, and sometimes it has a tendency to burn woods with a higher sugar content like maple or oak, or especially cherry, if you stop to switch hands while ripping.

I do have a thin kerf Irwin rip blade that I use for rough ripping or boards thicker than 1 1/2 inches. It doesn't leave as good of a finish as the Forrest, but it takes much less effort to push and doesn't burn.

[Jim Andrew]

I have a couple rip blades that do an excellent job, main thing is to keep them clean. I replace far fewer blades, just clean them when they get a coating of pitch. Best crosscut blades I have are 80 tooth Tenryu blades, got them from Carbide Processors.com. Also clean them any time they look dirty. Tried the cleaner LA Awesome someone recommended from Dollar Tree store, one gallon cost 1$ and works fine along with a toothbrush, and rinsed with clean water and then dry.

[Jerry Wright]

Checkout Ridge Carbide TS2000 series. I have two and one can start sanding the cut faces of ash, maple, cherry, walnut, mahogany .... with 150 grit orbital sander.

[Jim Dwight]

I normally have a Freud LU84 blade or a DeWalt equivalent on my little Ryobi BT3100. I have lots of other blades. I do not find that thin kerf blades require noticably less power than full kerf blades. They tend to bind worse when the wood moves because the difference between tooth width and body width is less. The LU84 is a all around blade with 40 ATB teeth and 10 flat top ripping teeth. On my saw, it cannot rip material more than 1 inch think because it requires more power than the 15A universal motor can provide. Thick rips are done with a Freud 24 tooth ripping blade. I prefer the 1/8 width but also use a thin kerf version sometimes.
I do not use my jointer much, I generally glue up using the surface from the table saw or track saw. I don&#39;t get perfect glue joints but they are pretty good. I do not think the very minor roughness from any of these blades makes much difference. If you are good with a hand plane or a jointer you could get a slightly better joint but I would probably mess it up worse (at least I have in the past).
Alternate tip bevel blades are cross cut, regardless of tooth count. That doesn&#39;t mean they won&#39;t rip it just means they need more power to rip. Flat top blades are for ripping. That doesn&#39;t mean they can&#39;t cross cut but they tend to have more chip out. Sharpness and cleanliness count a lot too, however. When my full kerf 24 tooth ripping blade was new, I tried it on some luan plywood making drawer bottoms. I was being lazy and not swapping the blade. It did surprisingly well with minimal chip out. It wouldn&#39;t do that well right now because it is getting close to sharpening.
Throw away blades like the Diablo are OK but if you get full kerf blades like the LU84 they will do more work before sharpening and they can be sharpened. With a Diablo, I think you throw it away when it gets dull.

[Al Launier]

Clay, a lot of good information above, but perhaps a bit confusing as to what to choose. I would suggest using Glenn's guideline ("My standard compliment is a 24 or 30 tooth rip, a 40 or 50 tooth general purpose and a 60 or 80 tooth crosscut.") as a basis for choosing, based on the extent/application of your woodworking and purchase whatever your budget allows. Don't forget to use the riving knife or splitter when rip sawing.

[Lee Schierer]

Clay, a lot of good information above, but perhaps a bit confusing as to what to choose. I would suggest using Glenn's guideline ("My standard compliment is a 24 or 30 tooth rip, a 40 or 50 tooth general purpose and a 60 or 80 tooth crosscut.") as a basis for choosing, based on the extent/application of your woodworking and purchase whatever your budget allows. Don't forget to use the riving knife or splitter when rip sawing.

I agree completely. YOu don't have to spend $200 to get quality cuts, but there are blades out there in that price range. My preference for my level of woodworking is to use Freud Blades. I've never been disappointed.

One word of warning, no matter what blade you are using it will give poor performance if your saw is not well aligned. Poor cut quality with a new blade is usually a saw alignment issue not a blade problem.

[Derek Cohen]

I've been extremely impressed with the Leuco blades I purchased a few months back. I have a rip and a crosscut, and the rip crosscuts so well, it has been the blade in use for everything!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[James White]

If you are looking for a one and done solution you can't beat the Freud fusion for bang for the buck. I have never been disappointed with a Freud blade and the fusion is no exception.

James

[scott spencer]

A couple of points worth noting:

- No saw blade will replace a jointer, because the saw doesn't address flattening the face, only an edge. A flat reference face is the key to a uniform adjacent edge, which is the key to a glue ready edge.

- Many saw blades are a capable of a glue ready edge, but none will produce a finish ready edge.

- If all else is equal, more teeth tends to equate to a cleaner cut, but with more resistance, more heat, more chance of burning. If all else is equal, fewer teeth tends to equate to a faster cut, with less resistance, less burning, but a rougher finish. Neither extreme or parameter is “better” in all situations…they’re just better suited for different applications. More (http://lumberjocks.com/knotscott/blog/12395)

- General purpose blades are good at many tasks, but fall short in the extremes of thicker ripping, and finer crosscuts and ply cuts. A good 60T to 80T blade will simply leave a cleaner cut, but with increased chance of burning.

- Blade choice is very proprietary to your saw, what you cut, and your skills. What works well for others may not be necessarily be the optimum choice for your situation.

- The saw blade is only one component of a more complex cutting system and sequence of events that occurs during cutting. A great blade won't cure the ills of a poorly tuned saw, or twisted wood.

- The better brands I tend to recommend are Infinity, Ridge Carbide, Forrest, Freud Industrial, CMT Industrial, Amana, and Tenryu.

[Jim Becker]

- No saw blade will replace a jointer, because the saw doesn't address flattening the face, only an edge. A flat reference face is the key to a uniform adjacent edge, which is the key to a glue ready edge.

This is absolutely true for folks using traditional cabinet saws and running boards along a fence with their hands. However, folks with Euro type sliders can have the advantage of a cut line that's perfectly straight and perpendicular to the faces as long as the material is flattened and thicknessed prior to ripping them clamped down to the wagon. I never edge joint because I don't have to with that setup. (Of course, having a sharp blade is also important relative to the quality of the cut)

[lowell holmes]

I bought a 10" Forest Woodworker II at least 10 years ago, had it sharpened once by Forest and I am completely happy with it.

[Jim Becker]

I bought a 10" Forest Woodworker II at least 10 years ago, had it sharpened once by Forest and I am completely happy with it.
My experience has been positive and mine (the 10" versions) have been sharpened multiple times. I have two of the 10" 40T and one 10" 20T ripping blade. As I noted earlier, I recently purchased the first 12" 48T WW-II based on my experience with the 10" versions. They are all exactly the same kerf width, too, which makes them interchangeable without re-adjusting my saw.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Check out the Delta 7657 from Cripe Distributing. Costs about $20 plus shipping. Probably the best bang for the buck in 10" 40 tooth blades.

[Leo Graywacz]

The Amana A.G.E. 60 tooth AT blade is what I use for almost everything. Rip, crosscut, solid, plywood, I do it all with this blade.

Of course if I start using thicker stock I'll swap over to a rip blade.

[Justin Horne]

When I first started out, with a brand new SS, I was running freud glue line rip, cabinetmakers crosscut, and freud ultimate plywood blade. They are all fine blades.

But...all my face frame material gets edge planed to remove sawmarks and get to final width, so I have started to prefer the infinity rip blade. Doesnt polish the edge as much as the freud, but it's a moot point.

The infinity plywood blade produces just as clean a cut as the freud equivalent as well.

In the past few months I have found myself becoming more partial to infinity...they at least seem to stay sharp just a little longer than the freud.

And for a dado stack, the infinity dadonator is the best dado package to ever run in my saw...this is where I'm most happy.

In short, freud makes great blades...but IMHO, infinity edges them out, and cost slightly less to boot.

[Van Huskey]

398475

....................

[Frederick Skelly]

:) I did notice that the original poster hasn't logged on since June.

But since I just recently ran a $125 Forrest blade right through my Incra miter gauge's aluminum fence**, I appreciate the tip on Infinity blades. Thanks Justin.

**No matter what you might read on the web, a Woodworker II does NOT survive significant contact with an aluminum extrusion. My "little" screw up with not checking the fence's position before the cut broke or damaged 10 teeth. :( :( :(

[Cary Falk]

:) I did notice that the original poster hasn't logged on since June.

But since I just recently ran a $125 Forrest blade right through my Incra miter gauge's aluminum fence**, I appreciate the tip on Infinity blades. Thanks Justin.

**No matter what you might read on the web, a Woodworker II does NOT survive significant contact with an aluminum extrusion. My "little" screw up with not checking the fence's position before the cut broke or damaged 10 teeth. :( :( :(

I occasionally cut Aluminum(intentionally) on the table saw without issue. It is normally with a Delta/DeWalt 7657 though

[Joe Spear]

:) I did notice that the original poster hasn't logged on since June.

But since I just recently ran a $125 Forrest blade right through my Incra miter gauge's aluminum fence**, I appreciate the tip on Infinity blades. Thanks Justin.

**No matter what you might read on the web, a Woodworker II does NOT survive significant contact with an aluminum extrusion. My "little" screw up with not checking the fence's position before the cut broke or damaged 10 teeth. :( :( :(

I've accidentally cut into my Incra miter gauge twice with a Forrest blade with no damage to the blade.

[Mitchell Ristine]

The Freud Glue Line Rip blade is excellent.

+1

This blade rarely leaves my saw.

[Zac wingert]

What saw do you have? If you are asking this, I assume you don’t have a 5hp saw. On smaller saws, the limited power you have makes a big difference. Kerf and teeth count severely limit you with smaller saw. Doesn’t mean you can’t get a good cut, but if your saw is underpowered like a job site saw you must consider these things. Otherwise you will get burning or very slow feed rate and then burning and/or just low quality cuts.

[Van Huskey]

I have decided that Incra is in some sort of unholy cabal with blade manufacturers and possibly Sawstop as well. There is a recurring theme of accidental Incra miter gauge and blade contact (with the ensuing firing on a SS). I have come to believe there is a nefarious blade magnet embedded in the Incra miter gauges.

[Frederick Skelly]

I've accidentally cut into my Incra miter gauge twice with a Forrest blade with no damage to the blade.

Wish I was as lucky as you. I wanted to puke when I examined my blade and counted 10 damaged/missing teeth.

[Justin Horne]

This made me chuckle. :)

[Bruce Wrenn]

Wish I was as lucky as you. I wanted to puke when I examined my blade and counted 10 damaged/missing teeth.My experience with a new WWII, when I hit a hidden staple that held a SKU tag on. FYI, Dynamic Saw will fix your blade for a lot less than Forrest will. Just got back a blade that had been dropped and cracked a tooth. Dynamic charged $2.90 to replace tooth along with STANDARD sharpening charges. The damaged WWII cost me within a few bucks to fix (Forrest) as a new WWII costs.

[Frederick Skelly]

My experience with a new WWII, when I hit a hidden staple that held a SKU tag on. FYI, Dynamic Saw will fix your blade for a lot less than Forrest will. Just got back a blade that had been dropped and cracked a tooth. Dynamic charged $2.90 to replace tooth along with STANDARD sharpening charges. The damaged WWII cost me within a few bucks to fix (Forrest) as a new WWII costs.

Thanks for the tip Bruce!

[Mitchell Ristine]

I have decided that Incra is in some sort of unholy cabal with blade manufacturers and possibly Sawstop as well. There is a recurring theme of accidental Incra miter gauge and blade contact (with the ensuing firing on a SS). I have come to believe there is a nefarious blade magnet embedded in the Incra miter gauges.

My favorite part of the conspiracy theory is that the cabal is, in fact, "unholy". Bhaahahahahaha

As a father of small children, I have long held that some nefarious collusion exists between battery makers and toy companies. Even the slightest furtive movement will cause any toy to engage the battery and emit whatever hellish sounds it's programmed to, thus draining the batteries.