Festool Router Question....

[Dev Emch]

In looking at the Festool routers, I noticed that the little one uses either 8 mm or 1/4 in collets whereas the newer one uses an assortment of collets up to 1/2 inch.

The smaller one, (the 1010 is it?), is rated at 1.5 HP give or take and the next size up is about 2.25 to 2.5 HP. Both are repectable power outputs.

I kinda like the 1010 for its size and lightness but its lack of a 1/2 inch collet bothers me. Remember, the old porter cable 690 was rated to 1.5 HP and it has a 1/2 inch collet. So I am used to using a 1.5 HP router to do finish work and I like to use 1/2 inch shanks. So now, to keep the weight and size constant, I will need to switch back to 8 mm or 1/4 inch shanks. The best availability of off the shelf bits with carbide tips are for the 1/2 inch shank market.

So what is the street opinion on the 1010? Is it worth getting or would the next bigger size be a better bet?

[JayStPeter]

I went with the 1400 because of the 1/2" collet. I probably would've gotten the 1010 if it had one.
It takes some getting used to with the funky handle position, but a good router with some cool features (some not found on the smaller one). For most cuts, I am starting to like the handle now. Dust collection is mixed, sometimes excellent .. sometimes minimal, but always better than nothing :D .

Jay

[Frank Pellow]

I also purchased the 1400 and the reason was the 1/2 inch collet. Yes the 1400 also has some features not on the 1010, but they were not enough to have me pick to 1400 over the 1010.

[Dan Larson]

I have the 1400, also. The lack of 1/2" collet on the 1010 was a turn-off to me too. Considering its power, the 1400 is very easy to handle. So far, I've been impressed with the dust collection. Not perfect, but at the least it doesn't fling chips at you. For many operations, it does pick up most of the chips.

Dan

[John Stevens]

Hi, Dev. I own the 1000, the predecessor to the current 1010. I don't own the 1400, and while I've held it and played with it at a couple of shows, I've never used it.

Besides the collet-size issue, you may want to note that the 1010 works with the Festool 32mm hole-boring set for cabinets (great!) and the VS600 (similar to a Leigh jig, but far less able to be customized). Also, the 1010 is significantly lighter than the 1400, and the plunge action is even lighter. Dust collection is probably equal. Bit changing is inconvenient compared to my PC690, and the ratcheting collet on the 1400 sounds like the best (assuming it is not prone to malfunction as time wears on).

Back to the collet issue--it's somewhat of an inconvenience that the 1000 doesn't take 1/2" shank bits. But Festool's 8mm bits are great, and there are a few other places where you can buy 8mm bits. But I own a PC690, and can use that when I need to run 1/2" shank bits.

And I haven't had any problems with the 1/4" shank bits I use in my 1000. Those bits are an Onsrud 1/4" spiral bit, and several Whiteside bits, including an inlay set, a 5/32" spiral cutter (for mortises that are as wide as a biscuit), a 5/32" disc (for biscuits) and a rabbeting set. Granted, though, I take multiple, light passes, usually no more than 1/4" deep or wide at a time.

I just got a Leigh DT jig, so I'm thinking about getting the Festool OF1400 because of the ease of bit-changing and the ability to use the larger Leigh cutters, which have 1/2" shanks. Otherwise, I'd seriously consider getting a second OF1000 to use in situations when I want to use two bits one-after-another without having to change the bits in the collet.

[Jim Becker]

I have both. The OF1010 is great for edge work, dovetailing and other things that don't require the stouter 1/2" shanks...and 8mm shanks, if your choose to work with them are much stronger than 1/4" shanks. The OF1400 is a bit bigger and heavier, but is wonderful for the heavier hand-held and guided jobs. (Both routers function great with the guide rails and MFT)

[Cecil Arnold]

Dev, I chose the 1400 for the 1/2" bits. I've got a mix of 1/2" and 1/4" ( to go with the Bosch and PC 350, because after all you can't have too many routers) and didn't feel like I needed to start a collection of 8mm bits to add to my shop clutter. As ithers have said, the chip clollection is a mixed bag, sometimes good sometimes so so, but overall a quality tool.

[Dave Falkenstein]

I selected the OF1400 router, like most other posts before me, because I could use my collection of 1/4 and 1/2 inch bits. I do not have any 8mm bits. The issues with the VS600 and 32mm hole drilling kit are known, and it is my understanding that Festool has fixes to those issues that should be available soon. I really like using the router with the guide rail to cut dados - excellent control and plenty of power. The ratcheting spindle lock is way cool. Even though the router is heavier than other choices, I do not find it cumbersome to use in hand-held operations, especially in conjunction with the guide rail.

[Dev Emch]

So what do you guys mean about the problems with the 1400 and its compatibility with the dovetail jig and the 32 mm hole boring jig. Most likely I will want to use my D4 dovetail jig but the 32 mm hole boring kit looks like it could be of use. Of the three routers mentioned in the catalog, which ones will and will not work with these items of festool kit?

[Bob Marino]

So what do you guys mean about the problems with the 1400 and its compatibility with the dovetail jig and the 32 mm hole boring jig. Most likely I will want to use my D4 dovetail jig but the 32 mm hole boring kit looks like it could be of use. Of the three routers mentioned in the catalog, which ones will and will not work with these items of festool kit?

Dave,

The copy rings for the 1400 (or at least the 17 mm copy ring) for use with the VS 600 joining system (on the SZ 14 - half blind dt template) do not fit the template perfectly. Festool is getting the newly machined copy rings from Germany shortly.
The 32 mm hole boring jig was designed around the 1000 (currently the 1010) router. The baseplate for that system is designed to accept, and easily lock, to the base of the 1010. The 1400 would have to be set in the base a bit differently and either either screwed in or supported with a wedge of sorts - not the most convenient way to go, but has been done successfully. I would bet that there will an accessory base for the 1400 to be used with the 32 mm system. I am not sure if the 2000 router could be so configured, I suppose it could, but a 3 hp class router is big for that application.

Bob

[markus shaffer]

Dev,

I also own the 1000 and have not found the 1/4 collet to be too big of an issue. Granted I have 3 other routers as well, so I have relegated the Festool for somewhat lighter duty work. As John pointed out above, Festool does offer 8mm bits which are bigger than the 1/4". I've used a couple, but not often enough to give you good feedback. I do push it pretty hard with 1/4" bits though and I've yet to have any problems with the tool itself.

I mostly use it for routing cavities in guitar bodies for pickups. With a top mounted guide bearing on a 1" straight bit, I will usually plunge all the way to the depth of the bearing and then slowly work my way out to the template that is taped to the top. Sometimes this is in basswood which poses no problem at all and sometimes it's in hard maple which I'm sure you know is prone to being somewhat more stubborn. Sure it's rough on the bits, but the router itself doesn't complain in the least.

As for using it with the guide rail.. It is nice to be able to drop it on the rail as done with the saws that they sell, but I don't use it that way all that much. The guides with the holes are a nice idea and I have used it on occasion, but honestly I think the Veritas shelf pin jig is much better and it's what I've come to use exculsively. Because of the design of the Veritas, I've come to add shelf pin holes after construction rather than before. That way, I can reference the guide off of the base or top of the cabinet itself and I've got both front and back holes lined up and ready to go without moving the jig. This is just preference and how I've come to work though. May not be ideal for you.

Overall, if you want a light router that is easy to use and has a good plunge action, it's a worthwhile investment. The dust collection is hit or miss depending on the application, but it's certainly better than the PC690. I don't mind the bit change so much, but it does take getting used to with one wrench and a spindle lock. It is a lot of money for such a small tool, but I think it's one you'd be happy with..


-Markus

[JayStPeter]

Dev,

I have a standard PC template guide adapter for the 1400. So, I ass-u-me compatibility with your Leigh wouldn't be a problem.

Jay

[Dev Emch]

Thanks GUys for the repsonse. I have been thru the Festool catalog from one end to the other. Its like black and green candy. They sure do an excellent job in marketing.

Truth is, I have felt a bit out of the times and wanted to upgrade to some black and green. I see so much of it being used these days. Even the lass on freeform furniture is using it.

But I will be honest with you. I am having a very hard time with it. If your just starting out and have no shop infrastructure, this would be one way to go for sure! But you really need to go hog wild to make it work. Let me explain.

The key is the MFT table. Without it, your stuck and each time you have to reposition one of those guides, you have to re-tram it for the cut. This is an invitation for variance! The MFT table takes that away and allows you to be able to position multiple items for identical cuts. Not having to retram the guide for each new cut. So as simple as the table looks, its an important item in the total system.

The systainers are pretty cool and I will grant you that. But at the end of the day, they are what they are. Plastic Boxes. The tool inside still has to perform to make the package worthwhile. And I think the performance and quality is there.

But the 1010 router has a major flaw. Its overpowered for a 1/4 inch router and being late to the party, most folks have a nice collection of 1/2 inch shank bits. Look at all my CMT bits. Others have said they get around this by using the old 690 to run the 1/2 inch stuff and the 1010 to run the new 8 mm or 1/4 in stuff. Maybe there is a 1011 on the drawing boards that upgrades the collet to 1/2 inch. Being that the 1010 is THE router for use with the joinery jig and the hole jig, etc. This router should have 1/2 inch collets. The design work to do this is not at all difficult. Actually, its pretty simple.

The 1/4 inch collet restriction is not that bad if your doing dovetails, etc.. I do use 1/4 in and 8 mm bits with my D4 dovetail jig so as long as it works here, this is not that much of an issue. But I like the 7/8 HP PC 100 for most of this work. Its nice to have a couple of these and set them up with the corresponding bits. Its also nice not to have the plunge gear for this application. Keep the base simple and free and clear so you can manipulate it and see what your doing.

The depth setting issues seem to be an issue causing lots of folks problems. I have used gage blocks and custom made jigs to reset certain depth settings and its pretty easy when done this way.

What I was looking for is a system to do Dado grooves that does not rely on hamburger grinders (i.e. dado blades) along with a massive amount of iron. Its nice to be able to do some of this work on site where you dont need to rig in and worry about three phase. Moving my old Dewalt RAS is a major expedition and then I need 7.5 hp of 3 phase lecagetty to get it to run.

So right now, it may be best to focus on the 1400 router along with the MFT table to see how that setup in kit may work out.

But on the other hand, she had worts.... If any of you wish to get rid of a porter cable heritage PC 100 router, please PM me. I am currently looking for one of these as well.

[Dave Falkenstein]

What I was looking for is a system to do Dado grooves that does not rely on hamburger grinders (i.e. dado blades) along with a massive amount of iron. Its nice to be able to do some of this work on site where you dont need to rig in and worry about three phase. Moving my old Dewalt RAS is a major expedition and then I need 7.5 hp of 3 phase lecagetty to get it to run.

So right now, it may be best to focus on the 1400 router along with the MFT table to see how that setup in kit may work out.

Dev - The OF1400 router used with guide rails, and/or an MFT with a stationary guide rail, provides an excellent way to cut dados up to the width allowed by the MFT and guide rail dimensions. The MFT is reasonably portable, in that it folds into a compact package. It is a bit heavy, and it does take up space in a truck or trailer. You must be cautious not to damage the guide rail, fence and hardware while transporting, or you can remove those items. The guide rail adapter for the OF1400 provides very positive control of the router on the guide rail, and has a micro-adjust feature that works well. I have used my OF1400 and MFT to cut dados and find it to be easier and faster than using a table saw with a dado blade.

[John Stevens]

Dev, if you're primarily after dados on a job site, John Lucas has a pretty cool idea for ploughing dados when the dado width exceeds the bit's width:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-47.htm

He's using the OF2000, but I'm sure you could adapt his method to the OF1400. As for the 1400 vs 1010, Dave's take on it sounds right to me.

[Scott Coffelt]

Dev,

Festoool does allow 30 days for trying and if you do not like it you can return. May be something to consider, or I am sure they could link you up with someone local with the tools for a test drive. For me the ATF55 is the most used and time savor for me, I have a small shop. Your lucky with the slider you have and the space as the saw would only benefit you for off site work. As for travel items, I am not sure of any product family that would make a prefessionals job any easier. I've done a number of remodel and trim carpentry jobs, these were all before I started buying Festool. Sure wish I had them then. These days my time is spent more in the shop than out.

I have the OF1400, not used it yet but plan to soon. I did play around with it and it is very good router, if not for the fact it is part of system, I am not sure it is any better then some other top models out there. The fact it works with the rails and stuff is what may give it an edge.

[JayStPeter]

Dev,

I haven't used the 1400 with guide rail yet. But, I have made hundreds of cuts with my ATF55 saw and the guide rails. I don't have an MFT yet (stay tuned). To get repeatable, parallel, and square cuts I have a pretty good system. I have a jig that I use to register the rail to the workpiece. I get parallel to within 1/64" over 8'. Repeatability is similar. More than good enough for large cabinet parts.
For squre cuts, I use the Festool Angle Unit. It's easy to setup and works well. For repeatabilty, I can use my other jig in conjunction with it. But, I have found that pencil marks are good enough for most "crosscuts". I have found that pencil marks don't work well for long rips without the jig mentioned above. You can do it, it is just cumbersome to check and double check everything as it is too easy to make a mistake.

Jay