Terrible Powermatic Customer Service

[Lyn Baker]

I'm at the point I don't know what to do. I bought a new Powermatic 2013B Bandsaw last year in July. About 5 weeks ago, it got to where it would trip the break when I attempted to start it. I called in a electrician and he determined that the motor is going bad. I called Powermatic and explained the problem and the steps I went through to determine the cause of the issue. The technician said no problem, he'd email me a form to complete along with some documentation requirements which I have done to his satisfaction. Again, no problem. It's been a month today since I met the warranty documentation requirements and still no replacement motor. I've had great difficulty in getting any answers let alone satisfaction from Powermatic. I've called the next guy up the ladder twice and left messages with no communication from him yet. The first guy called me Monday and said that he thought they had a motor in inventory when he put the request in back a month ago, but has just found out there is no replacement motor to ship to me. He said he would see if they could pull a motor off of a new machine, but then he called back minutes later wanting to know if I could find someone locally to rebuild the bad motor and that they would pay for it. There is no one within a 100 mile radius of here that rebuilds single phase motors and besides that, I think I'm entitled to a new motor or better yet, since they've made a mess of this, a new machine. I've emailed and called him back today explaining there is nowhere here to have the motor rebuilt, and I have yet to receive a response.

Is there anyone out there who might know who I could contact at Powermatic to get some timely satisfaction? At this point, the 5 year warranty from the 'Gold Standard' is pretty worthless. And, I'm desperate. I need my saw back up and working. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Matt Day]

It’s a bummer to hear you’re bad experience. I have a 2013 from about 6 years ago, 3 phase motor though.

My advice, besides what you’ve done, would be to keep asking for the person’s boss, and the boss’s boss, etc. Run it up the chain until someone does something. Assuming you took down somone’s name who failed to do what was promised, throw him/her under the bus to the boss.

[Carroll Courtney]

Shame something like this is happening to you,but it looks like to me that no one at PM wants to deal or do anything for you.Hope you have keep a log of all your emails sent,all the phone calls with all of them name and comments that they gave you.I would search the internet,PM website and just go to the top as far as you can and let that person know how you are being treated.Maybe also call the place that you purchase it from,maybe they can give you a contact number and a name.As much as what these machines of any brand cost you would think service would be better.Shame on PM----Carroll

[Ken Krawford]

Do you have a Facebook and/or Twitter account? Often times comments posted there get a response.

[Sam Beagle]

I have new powermatic 3520b lathe. The VFD went and I had the same problem. Either drive the headstock 120 miles or have an electrician do it. It was my brothers wedding, and I was making the centerpieces. So i was panicking, they didn’t help me at all. They sent me a new VFD and i paid an electrician to install it.
I was very disappointed with powermatic. They wouldn’t budge at all. Don’t expect them too.

[Frederick Skelly]

Wow. These stories are not encouraging. I expected better from a high end company like PM.
Sounds like the bean counters have taken over ANOTHER reputable firm.
Sad. Sad. Sad.

[Randy Heinemann]

Just providing another view to the conclusion about Powermatic service. I have owned a Jet 8" HH Jointer for 5 years; once very recently. At this point, Jet, Powermatic, and Wilton (JPW) are the same company so I believe that the number for Powermatic is also the support number for Jet. The service I got was prompt, onsite, and high quality; provided through a third party that JPW contracts with in the Northern Illinois area. The last call I made was, in fact, for a suspected motor going bad. The JPW rep did insist I went through several steps to eliminate problems but, in the end, JPW authorized the service company to come onsite and install a new motor. In the end, the service tech found another problem which didn't require a motor, but the point is that the service provided was very responsive and complete. Obviously you have no choice but to keep pushing JPW to replace the motor. Just though I'd relay a positive response to give some hope that it truly is motor availability that is the problem.

[Lyn Baker]

Yes I do and IG as well. I have several woodworking friends and acquaintances throughout the country and they are all just as perplexed as I am.

[Simon MacGowen]

I'm at the point I don't know what to do.

Wow, what a typical story to hear when a vendor fails its basic responsibilities. If any consolation, I have heard some bad service stories even when Festool is the vendor in question.

Fewer and fewer woodworking machine companies are left that you can really trust when something goes wrong. It is all smooth sailing when you buy though.

Is it an option to rent a replacement (any brand) in the meantime and attempt to recover the cost back from PM later?

Simon

[Lyn Baker]

Glad to hear you've had a positive, concise and quick outcome with them. My rep has never mentioned any kind of a service center that could help me out. I live in the Ozark Mtns of north central Arkansas and I guess I may be just close enough to the Nashville TN area that I'd be served by their main headquarters. I can assure JPW that I will reconsider any equipment purchases going forward as it involves them. I'm extremely disappointed.

[Lyn Baker]

Since experiencing this problem, I've done some research on JPW. They have some major employee problems it seems. From the posts I've read from former employees the moral is terrible, the pay is barely adequate and upper management is unresponsive. Posts from upper management are all about creating greater profits for stakeholders/shareholders. Little mention of what they actually do to make that happen. I will be careful about purchasing equipment from them going forward. About two years ago I was in the market for a larger joiner. It was either Powermatic or Felder/Hammer. I bought the latter and have been very pleased with the machine and the handling of the purchase through Felder/Hammer.

[Lyn Baker]

I've received an email this morning from the service technician. He says they are going to go ahead and pull a motor off of a new machine, test it, then get it in the mail to me. He didn't say when though. I'll be calling him later today to see if I can nail him down. With that said, I've got two thoughts about this turn of events: 1) what will the story be for the unlucky buyer who gets the machine from which they are robbing this motor; will he/she know any of this (I'm sure they won't), 2) has JPW let things go this bad with customer service and parts replacement for a reason? Why would they not have an adequate supply of replacement parts in inventory? Are the owners of JPW robbing all the value out of the company as they drive it into possible bankruptcy then dump it? We've all seen this scenario before.

[Art Mann]

I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that Grizzly would have had the motor in stock and would have shipped it the next day.

[Ben Rivel]

I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that Grizzly would have had the motor in stock and would have shipped it the next day.
Ha! Dont be so sure of that. It took Grizzly months to fix the issue I had with one of their oscillating edge sanders being out of square with its table. Bought it brand new and the whole process was documented here too.

These companies dont control as much as they pretend to. They are all at the mercy of the chinese companies that manufacture all the parts they use in their machines.

[Robert Cherry]

I'm surprised to hear this. I own many Powermatic tools and while I have rarely needed it, I have had nothing but excellent customer service from them over the years.

[Matt Day]

Probabaly better off with the old green Powermatics and getting parts on OWWM!

This sounds like another reason not to spend the extra money on the gold paint job when you get the same machine in green or white. Not exactly in this case because I don’t think Griz makes the same 2013 bandsaw.

Regarding your worry about the buyer of the machine the motor is getting pulled from, I wouldn’t worry about it. Hopefully PM would notice its missing a motor when they go to ship it out!

[Frankie Hunt]

I don't think they are set up very well for service. Last year I got their new tenon jig. I had issues with the bar and called them. They talked me into several things to try much to no avail. They then looked up the parts I needed and said they would ship them. After several phone calls / emails with the their technician I was told they didnt have that part in stock and had no eta. They told me they would take the parts from a new one and send to me. More calls / emails I was told that would not work out. They told me to bust up the old unit with a hammer and send photos showing serial number and busted unit. They did send me a new one and made things right. Overall I was happy enough with the outcome.

It sure is a different world we live in today. 20 years ago I updated most of my equipment. I went with all Delta since they were the "standard", had great service, USA made and would be around forever..... Who would have though that Grizzly would overtake them in service and product.... (other than Shiraz Balolia)

[Roger Feeley]

I bought a rikon 17” bandsaw and the motor tripped the breaker once. I reset the breaker and the saw started up fine. I called rikon and told them about it. They said it might be an anomaly but to be safe, they shopped me a motor. The replacement motor arrived with a dented fan shroud. I told them it was no big deal. The fan looked fine and I could pound out the dent. They shipped another motor! they never asked anything back. I’m still using the original motor. I guess I have two spares.

[Peter Kelly]

Since experiencing this problem, I've done some research on JPW. They have some major employee problems it seems. From the posts I've read from former employees the moral is terrible, the pay is barely adequate and upper management is unresponsive. Posts from upper management are all about creating greater profits for stakeholders/shareholders. Little mention of what they actually do to make that happen.Pretty much standard operating procedure with any PE firm acquisition. Over-leverage, suck the life / cash out of a company and dump it.

[Matthew Bennett DC]

Sounds like the perfect time to short JPW stocks. I'll check it out and maybe that's what I will do.


I've received an email this morning from the service technician. He says they are going to go ahead and pull a motor off of a new machine, test it, then get it in the mail to me. He didn't say when though. I'll be calling him later today to see if I can nail him down. With that said, I've got two thoughts about this turn of events: 1) what will the story be for the unlucky buyer who gets the machine from which they are robbing this motor; will he/she know any of this (I'm sure they won't), 2) has JPW let things go this bad with customer service and parts replacement for a reason? Why would they not have an adequate supply of replacement parts in inventory? Are the owners of JPW robbing all the value out of the company as they drive it into possible bankruptcy then dump it? We've all seen this scenario before.

[Perry Hilbert Jr]

Some states have a consumer Protection law that permits triple damages and attorney fees. Offering a warranty and then not being able to fix the problem is a violation of PA's Consumer Protection act. I purchased a warranty through a big name company and then the product was destroyed through no fault or negligence of mine. They denied the warranty claim. I sued and got the three times the original price and I got $250.00 for my own time as my attorney. (I am an attorney). I would sue them for three times the cost of the entire unit. Once the bean counters start seeing summonses come through the door, it will change their tune.

There is an expression around here, "Rare as replacement parts for a Chinese motorcycle." Maybe that is the problem. Thompson Center ran into that with their life time warranty on their firearms. A fire at the factory destroyed the machinery to make replacement parts, so they just ran out and stopped honoring the lifetime warranty on those particular guns. That is very bad business juju.

[scott spencer]

Aside from the customer woes, I'm curious about what specifically is going bad in the motor? Cap, centrifugal switch, bearings....? Is there anything you could fix if they sent you the part?

[Mike Heidrick]

Cian at woodnet may be able to follow up with powermatic.

Id be looking at a baldor replacement and have them purchase and send it.

[Rick Potter]

I would return it. Why should you be the repairman for a new machine?

[Simon MacGowen]

I would return it. Why should you be the repairman for a new machine?
I have always been amazed at the length people (including woodworkers of course) would go trying to "fix" their new purchases, after encountering a poor response from the vendors (customer service) where they bought them.

"Try this and try that" is the grand advice you hear often on forums instead of suggestions like picking up the phone and escalating and returning the item when all fails. I am not talking about cosmetic issues or simple checking but taking apart the tools, finding replacement parts, etc.

I know many people struggle with reading even the basic manual instructions (granted, many are rubbish and are like written by aliens who don't speak English) and they have no clue how to set things up (hence the geek squads) or operate. To assume a woodworker would know how to fix a machine is to assume a woodturner is also good at making chairs.

Simon

[andy bessette]

...I think I'm entitled to a new motor or better yet, since they've made a mess of this, a new machine...

This is your problem...too high expectations. :) They already said they'd pay to have it rebuilt. Send it to a rebuilder and quit complaining they aren't treating you right.

[Jim Becker]

I would return it. Why should you be the repairman for a new machine?

The saw is almost a year and a half old; it's not a "new" machine just purchased. The issue here is about warranty service and it sounds like the vendor is going to take care of him. Sadly, however, it's taken way too long for them to make the decision to pull a part off of a machine to solve a supply issue.

Parts replacement sans labor is pretty much "normal" for a lot of equipment these days, even during a warranty period and even/especially for higher-end gear.

[Brian Holcombe]

This is your problem...too high expectations. :) They already said they'd pay to have it rebuilt. Send it to a rebuilder and quit complaining they aren't treating you right.

Sounds like your expectations are too low. :D But likely fair after 1.5 yrs to have either a new motor or a repair.

[Lyn Baker]

Update: After five weeks, a replacement motor arrived via UPS this morning. The motor was robbed off of a new machine. Unfortunately, the motor was packed very poorly and was damaged in shipment. I haven't contacted the service rep yet; he's the next email. The cowling around the fan is bent up so bad, the motor will just barely make a revolution; I'm turning the shaft by hand; I've not installed the motor on the machine. So, this has gone from bad to worse. I'm going to let him know about the situation then I think I'll rob the cowling off the bad motor and maybe I'll be okay. Going forward, it's crossed my mind to divest myself of all my Powermatic tools and find a company that will take care of their customers. When I pay $5,000 for a tool, I expect, no I demand service after the sale. I have not received that at all with JPW, LLC.

[Mike Henderson]

This is your problem...too high expectations. :) They already said they'd pay to have it rebuilt. Send it to a rebuilder and quit complaining they aren't treating you right.

The OP said that there's no one within 100 miles who rebuilds single phase motors. So maybe he could find someone who he could ship the motor to to have it rebuilt. He'd have to pay the shipping both ways, and the cost of rebuilding. My experience with motor rebuilders is that they're not exactly quick, especially for small jobs with non-repeat customers. So he'd be out the motor for another month or so.

Then, he'd have to collect the cost from Powermatic. Again, my experience is that once you pay for something, it always a chore to get the company to pay for everything, here to include the cost of packing and shipping. They often say, "We only allow $xxx for packing and shipping."

Hopefully, when he got the motor back from the rebuilders it would work, but I've received motors that did not work for long after rebuilding. If that happens, who's responsible? Does he have to go chase the rebuilders, or is Powermatic going to stand behind the problem because they told him to go get it rebuilt?

So I agree with him - the motor went bad during the warranty period. It's the responsibility of Powermatic to get the saw fixed.

Mike

[andy bessette]

The OP said that there's no one within 100 miles who rebuilds single phase motors. So maybe he could find someone who he could ship the motor to to have it rebuilt. He'd have to pay the shipping both ways, and the cost of rebuilding. My experience with motor rebuilders is that they're not exactly quick, especially for small jobs with non-repeat customers. So he'd be out the motor for another month or so.

Then, he'd have to collect the cost from Powermatic. Again, my experience is that once you pay for something, it always a chore to get the company to pay for everything, here to include the cost of packing and shipping. They often say, "We only allow $xxx for packing and shipping."

Hopefully, when he got the motor back from the rebuilders it would work, but I've received motors that did not work for long after rebuilding. If that happens, who's responsible? Does he have to go chase the rebuilders, or is Powermatic going to stand behind the problem because they told him to go get it rebuilt?

So I agree with him - the motor went bad during the warranty period. It's the responsibility of Powermatic to get the saw fixed.

Mike

As Powermatic sent him a replacement motor these are moot points, but you have certainly made a lot of wild assumptions to support them.

If he had sent the motor out for rebuilding, all he'd need to do would be to send Powermatic the bill, as they already said they'd reimburse him. And whenever you return an item for warranty work I would presume you'd have to ship it anyway. That he could not find a motor rebuilder right next door is meaningless.

Now he is complaining about having to r&r the motor cowl (what is it, 2 screws?). Come on! You can agree with him all you want. I don't. Let him sell all his PM machines and see if he gets better service from some other Asian import.

[Matt Day]

It’s hard to complain about a dinged fan cover, when you have a perfectly good replacement in your shop.

[Mike Henderson]

As Powermatic sent him a replacement motor these are moot points, but you have certainly made a lot of wild assumptions to support them.


Actually, not wild assumptions but experiences I've had in the past. I always hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Mike

[Brice Rogers]

In 2013, Powermatic was sold and the buyer became JPW. Now, after only 4 years, it is being sold again.

It is my personal experience, that when a company is trying to be sold, it takes steps to reduce costs and make the bottom line improve so that they can sell the company for more $. When a new buyer takes over, they are trying to improve profits and limit additional capital investments (at least until the bottom line looks better). The quickest way to improve the bottom line is to simply cut costs. So this sometimes turns into a downward spiral where the lifeblood of the company is squeezed out.

Here is the article on the newest sale of Powermatic. https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/news/woodworking-industry-news/jet-powermatic-owner-jpw-acquired-private-equity-firm

[Frederick Skelly]

The OP said that there's no one within 100 miles who rebuilds single phase motors. So maybe he could find someone who he could ship the motor to to have it rebuilt. He'd have to pay the shipping both ways, and the cost of rebuilding.

Mike's experience matches my observations. I usually read the warranty on things as part of making purchase decisions. I find this clause (customer pays shipping for warranty service) more and more.

[Randy Heinemann]

I have been advised never to buy a Grizzly machine because Grizzly's policy is to never send out a service tech to provide warranty service. The buyer is on their own with regard to service onsite no mater how large the machine. If Grizzly factory service is desired, it is the customer's responsibility to send the machine to Grizzly for service or accept the responsibility to install the parts themselves no matter what they are or what is involved in installation.

I don't know why the Northern Illinois area is handled differently by JPW than other parts of the country, but I was completely satisfied with the JPW response under warranty.

Maybe the lesson is that, before buying any machine, it's worth the effort to make contact with the manufacturer and get clarification on what will actually be provided under warranty.

[Matt Winterowd]

This all sounds an awful lot like what happened to Delta a few years ago. As the mostly happy owner of a Powermatic PM2000 table saw, I decided a number of years ago that I didn't really get much for the $1000 to $1500 more I paid over the price of a Grizzly or even a Jet. And the $500-$800 I saved over the Sawstop definitely wasn't worth it. I have to admit that I'm not sure that there's a real value proposition for the sort of mid-market level machinery at this point.

[Curt Harms]

This all sounds an awful lot like what happened to Delta a few years ago. As the mostly happy owner of a Powermatic PM2000 table saw, I decided a number of years ago that I didn't really get much for the $1000 to $1500 more I paid over the price of a Grizzly or even a Jet. And the $500-$800 I saved over the Sawstop definitely wasn't worth it. I have to admit that I'm not sure that there's a real value proposition for the sort of mid-market level machinery at this point.

The parallel to Delta a few years ago came to my mind as well. I guess investment firms figure the reputation they're buying (but have no intention of maintaining) is worth quite a bit.