Help me outfit my small shop

[Gregory Keller]

So I’ve got half of an unfinished basement that my wife is allowing me to turn into a shop. The space is a 12x18 rectangle with a small 5x3 nook that is also part of the floor plan. I am basically planning on mostly hand tool stuff except for the major dimensioning of lumber and that’s where I’d love some help. I am in the early stages of a Nicholson bench build that I want to be the focus of the shop. It probably gonna end up being about 7 feet long and I’d like to have it away from the wall so I can get at all sides of it. As for machinery I’ve got a Dewalt planer and am going to get some dust collection on it because now I drag it outside and blow chips into my backyard which is a pain in the buttt. As far as other machines I feel that a bandsaw would give me the
Most bang for my buck and also have a relatively small footprint. Any of you hand tool focused guys have a suggestion on a great do it all saw? Would like to keep it under 2k but obviously want to get the most saw for my money if I go that high. Maybe the new Laguna 18bx? Or a grizzly 17 or risking?
Finally where do you guys fall on the idea of a Jointer? Part of me feels that planing a face flat and edge square by hand isn’t all that bad, but I haven’t done a massive amount of it. The idea of a 8 inch jointer seems like it would get me to the part of hand tool woodworking that I like, being the joinery and stuff like that much faster. The downside being the space it takes up. A decent 8 inch model has a pretty big footprint, I guess a mobile base would let me wheel it out of the way but in a 12x18 foot space there isn’t really ever an “out of the way”.

Ideas? Help? Tips? Random musings? Thanks in advance.

[Archie England]

Congrats on the developing basement workshop!

With regard to the Bandsaw: I love mine (a 16") but it's not big enough. I should have bought in the 20-24" range for throat and power and the ability to use carbide blades. As to brand, that's your preference; the Laguna is certainly a well-attested machine.

Do be careful with any machines that can load you up with fine dust particles. Slower (handplanes) might just be significantly more healthy than the faster power tools/machines. Jointing with my hand planes is not easy, but I have finally sold my old Jointer. Had I had a bigger one, I might not have kept it. Attempting to move toward a hand tool only approach does have some drawbacks as to ease or pace of work completion. But then, figuring out how to accomplish such tasks is all part of why this hobby is so fun.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Gregory and a belated welcome to the Creek. If you are in the Southwest Washington - Portland, Oregon area you are welcome to visit my shop and try out various tools to see if they fit your needs.

You are correct in a band saw having a lot of bang for the buck.

My recent purchase of a bandsaw was in the $1K area. So far it has done a fine job for me. It can re-saw a little more than 12" and the blade capacity is 3/4". It is a 14" JET purchased through a local dealer. It took a little ingenuity to get it out of the box and onto the base due to its weight.

My suggestion would be to hold off on the jointer. You may be surprised how quickly a board can be trued with a few good hand planes. One of my former coworkers was always bragging about how is jointer or planer could take off 1/16" on a pass as a comparison to a hand plane. He also asked me to sharpen his blades which my shop wasn't set up to do. Often one of these will leave a bit of work for a hand plane.

With the Dewalt planer for the board faces you will likely be able to do your edge jointing by hand with little effort.

The money there might be better spent for some joinery tools like a few saws and chisels if you do not already have that covered.

jtk

[Gregory Keller]

Thanks for the tips. Looking at those big bandsaws was something I did early on but I don’t have the height to fit one in the basement. 7 foot ceilings and all. Also getting it down there might be damn near impossible. The house is an expanded cape cod where the stairs to the basement are in a little “hallway” between the living room and kitchen. Getting anything big, heavy, wide and/or tall is a major pain. It seems like one of the newer style 16-18 inch bandsaws would be a good compromise. I wish I had more room but there is just zero possibility that I can expand from this footprint.

[Phil Mueller]

Congrats as well! My shop is smaller than what you will enjoy. I have a lunch box planer and a contractor table saw. If I had room for one power tool it would be a band saw. If for no other reason than to resaw. I get by. When I need to resaw, I hand plane one suface and edge square, then run it through the table saw (multiple times increasing the depth of cut). If there’s wood left in the middle, I use a hand saw. If it’s just a small piece to begin with, I hand saw it.

Most curved cuts I can handle with a bow saw, or power jig saw.

With all stock, I enjoy surfacing one face with hand planes, and then use that as the reference face to run through the planer to thickness (I’m horrible at hand planing to thickness!). I guess the point is, you can get by without many power tools. Just depends on what you enjoy doing. If, like you said it’s mostly jointery, than yes, a jointer and band saw and good dust collection, may be what you need.

[David Eisenhauer]

Without knowing what type of projects you have in mind, I wonder if buying mostly S4S or "skip planned" timber will minimize the need for lots of machine type milling. 12' x 18' will get eaten up quickly by machinery and, yes, an 8" jointer may very will be in the way (regardless of a mobility kit) whenever you are not actually using it. Like Jim said, after using the portable planer, the joiner work is not nearly as difficult and time consuming after you acquire the correct hand tools for that work and put in the time to learn the skill. I would mock up some cardboard (or similar) footprints of the various benches and machinery I was thinking about and try them out in the available space before making any big machinery purchases. I also believe many small furniture/mainly hand tool shops may have a band saw as their only machine and work just fine. Last thought, if you are thinking about going the hand tool route, I believe you definitely need to plan on dedicating some small, semi-to-permanent spot for a sharpening station. Dragging the stuff out to use on the Nicholson will not satisfy you very long at all.

[Gregory Keller]

Thanks for all the replies so quickly guys. The bandsaw is pretty much a given as is a quality dust collector. I’m leaning towards the Oneida mobile hepa unit. Part of the thing that got me moving towards hand tools is the dust associated with power tools. The basement in addition to being my place to build stuff is also our laundry room, wife has a craft area and lots of storage since we don’t have a garage or attic. I am lucky that my wife is letting me have the “larger” half of the basement but I have to make sure it doesn’t become a dusty mess down there.

[Gregory Keller]

My work up to now has been purchasing s4s stuff but I’ve found that it is rarely as flat as I’d like it to be and I end up using my planes on it already and that takes away even more of the thickness. My projects for the foreseeable future are going to be things for the house, side tables, wall cabinets, jewlery boxes, dining table, etc. a big variety of things in all different sizes. Beds for the kids as they age out of cribs but those will be mostly plywood, tracksaw, domino type stuff. I’ve built a couple of projects so far and love being able to look around my house and see things that I have built in most of the rooms. It is those builds with crumby power tools and Home Depot pine/construction lumber that makes me want to start moving more towards better materials and methods.

[steven c newman]

Maybe look up the Nickle Tour of my Dungeon Woodshop.....rather small space in my basement....

[Mark Smith, too]

I have a Griz 17 and my son has a Laguna 14. His is definitely the easier saw to change blades on. If I were going to buy a saw today I would take the new Laguna over my Gizzly 17.
I have the Oneida mobile base DC. However, I park it in the corner and use 4 inch flex hose for all my tool hookups. I have had no problem with that. I can move the DC out of the corner to empty the drum.
My shop is about 15x15. I'd love a few move feet in both length and width. I'm sure you'll feel that along the way.
If you get a planer (and I would) you can build a set-up to flatten one side of a board so you don't need a wide jointer. I'd still want a jointer, as getting a sqare edge on a narrow board using hand planes takes a lot of practice and skill. All I do is use a number 7 to take off the machine marks after running a board through the saw or jointer. I respect those who flatten and square their stock by hand. It's not for me.
I agree with you about the s4s stuff. Running a twisted, warped, or cupped board through planer just gives you a thinner twisted, warped, or cupped board. I will, however, ask for one straight edge if a boad I like ain't too straight in that dept. or has wane or a live edge.

[Christopher Charles]

A bit off topic, but I'd recommend thinking about adding good overhead lighting if the area is not already well lit. Also, I agree with the above that a good bandsaw, a lunch box planer and dust collector are the tools I'd buy first.

Good luck!

[Matt Evans]

Another thing to mention: If you hand joint the edge of rough lumber first, you can run the board through a well set up bandsaw and get a very flat surface that is square or close to it to the jointed edge. Dress that face with a handplane, then flip it around and run it through the band saw again, just a smidge oversized. Once again you'll have a little clean up with a hand plane, but as you get used to it you'll only need to take a few swipes and it'll be surfaced and dimensioned.

While it largely depends on the project type and size you'll be mostly working on, that pretty much eliminates the need for the 8" jointer at that point. That being said, a benchtop 6" that you could tuck away would help on your edge jointing on smaller boards, or when you have a project with tons of different parts.

In summary, I'd likely get the largest bandsaw I could fit in the shop, and forget about the big jointer at the outset. The Grizzly 0531B 21" is only 78" tall according to the spec sheet. Likely the way I would go personally. (I have the 0513 17" and love it, but occasionally I'd like a bit more resaw capacity.)

[Gregory Keller]

Thanks guys for all the tips. I am thinking that I might have a plan going forward. I'm thinking that the oneida mobile gorilla is going to be a first purchase. It's a highly mobile unit that's 1.5 HP and only takes up 31x31 inches of floorspace. It is also a HEPA certified unit and that along with my festool CT dust extractor should easily handle all the dust that I'll throw at it. The second purchase is going to be a bandsaw and at this point I'm leaning towards a laguna 18bx. It's a new saw that seemed to have some growing pains at the outset, but maybe is rectified? It seems that it will be about the size where I can get the most useability in a relatively small form factor that I can get into my basement. I'm honestly going back and forth between that and one of the 14 inch models that is focused on resawing, but think the only reason for that is that the 14 inch models would be soo much easier to get down into the shop. I don't want to be looking for another bandsaw in a couple years.

[Christopher Charles]

Interesting, hadn't seen that saw. I have a nice 18" with similar features. Can't imaging justifying more saw, so if you can it one down the stairs, I'd buy well once :)

[Derek Cohen]

If you want a carbide resaw blade that does not demand very high tension, the Laguna Resaw King is ideal.

Matt's suggestion of planing one side, resawing close to thickness, and then planing to finish, if a trick I used for many years.

Do not purchase skip planed lumber (it sounds more tempting than it is good) - it will destroy the available thickness of long boards. Rather get rough sawn, cut to length, and then thickness a short length.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[William Fretwell]

My two basement shops with a young family had several issues, as did a good friend with his shop. Noise is a huge problem, time to make noise strictly limited. Machines and dust equipment make a lot of noise, even chiselling was a problem. Think about some sound proofing in the ceiling. Nothing worse than a shop you can barely use.
My good friend was only allowed to use his lathe for 4 hours Sunday morning. He moved his shop to a barn; then was allowed to go every other Sunday.
We both have new shops and new wives.

[Mike Holbrook]

I will mention one more saw that may work well in a small shop. There are many, track saws, being made today. There are even tracks that can be used with about any skill saw. If you plan to use plywood the track saw is very nice to have. The track allows you to make multiple passes with the skill saw if the lumber is thicker. There are also special ripping blades available. You will probably need a worktable for glue ups, longer cuts etc., which can be used to rip and xcut things on as well. You can just have a light, disposable piece of foam sheathing that you use on the worktable with the track saw so it does not cut the worktable top. Track saws are much less expensive than bandsaws, take up less space (the tracks typically break down) and have their own set of advantages and disadvantages.

[Gregory Keller]

I've already got the track saw and use it for cabinets, built ins and other stuff my house needs. I love using it for those kind of things but really don't think it would be able to replace a bandsaw for what I see that I'll use the bandsaw for.

The noise factor was a major reason that I went down the hand tool route. I think that the majority of machine work will be for stock prep. So it should be a short bit of work at the beginning of a given project and then very little noise after that point. My wife is understanding to a point. Noise all the time would not be ok, but a few hours when starting a project is fine.

[steven c newman]

Usually...the most noise heard from my shop...is the cussing that goes on.....tends to drown out the bandsaw.....

Might also look into a cordless mitresaw for your shop....
373576
You can get a Cardio after a full day using these.....without the LOUD noise of the corded ones...

[Christopher Charles]

Having been down William's path with kids and spouses and noise as well, I'll also note that handwork is far from silent. A wood is good mallet helps with the noise of chiseling but only to a point. But it sounds like you've been thinking it through so I'm probably telling you what you already know. Good luck and will look forward to seeing your set up.

Best,
C

[John Nelson - San Diego]

Hey Gregory. Curious to hear if you have an update with how things went since your last post. I am working with the exact same size shop as you and in the process of making some upgrades to the shop. I have been using a Dewalt table saw and have increasingly been interested in switching over to a bandsaw workflow for ripping and joinery in conjunction with hand tool work. I am also looking to upgrade my dust collection and am interested in the Oneida Mini Gorilla. The bandsaw I've ben looking at is the 18bx. Did you end up getting either of these? Have you added any other big tools to your shop?

[David Carroll]

I had all the power tools at one time. The first to go was the jointer, using Derek's method of buying rough sawn lumber, cutting roughly to length first, then jointing an edge etc. worked so well that the jointer wasn't necessary. Once I got as many hand planes as needed (a scrub, a jointer, a smoother and a block plane), I got rid of my lunchbox planer. Once I got a nice set of hand saws, I got rid of my table saw (that went to my son, and is still available to me but I rarely use it anymore). I just recently gave him my bandsaw too. Jury is out on how much I will regret that, but again it is available to me and I haven't missed it all that much. So now the only power tools I still have are a circular saw, and chop saw, both used for home renovation, not furniture or craft work, and a nice drill press.

The drill press I will hang on to for the time being. I am looking for an old high quality bench top one to replace my floor standing Jet, which I will give to my son. But no matter how Neander-centric I go, I will use a drill press. That's where my line is drawn...that is, unless I come across a nice post drill first.

Steven mentioned a miter box. I have a nice one, but don't have the space to leave it set up permanently. Back when I did, I really liked using it and I still drag it out from time to time. If you can find room for one, then its worth picking one up second hand.

Good luck and have fun!

DC

[Richard Coers]

So I’ve got half of an unfinished basement that my wife is allowing me to turn into a shop.
Better ask her what your budget is for machinery and tools.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi John and welcome to the Creek.

Leave the power tool guilt for others. My mainly neander shop will always have a bandsaw, drill press, lathe and a power sharpening set up along with a few other random, seldom used power tools.

jtk


Hey Gregory. Curious to hear if you have an update with how things went since your last post. I am working with the exact same size shop as you and in the process of making some upgrades to the shop. I have been using a Dewalt table saw and have increasingly been interested in switching over to a bandsaw workflow for ripping and joinery in conjunction with hand tool work. I am also looking to upgrade my dust collection and am interested in the Oneida Mini Gorilla. The bandsaw I've ben looking at is the 18bx. Did you end up getting either of these? Have you added any other big tools to your shop?

[John Nelson - San Diego]

David and Jim, thank you for your insights. I have a 4 year old and my time is immensely precious in the shop, so being able to square and dimension lumber quickly is very important to me. Maybe once the little one grows up and I get more time in the shop, then I can move away from needing a jointer. Hard to imagine getting rid of a thickness planer. Space constraints are an important consideration for me. That's why I don't plan to go for anything big beyond the bandsaw, dust collector, planer, and jointer. Was hoping I could get a response from Gregory as his shop dimension is literally the same as mine and it sounded like he had a similar workflow as mine too.

[Scott Winners]

Was hoping I could get a response from Gregory as his shop dimension is literally the same as mine and it sounded like he had a similar workflow as mine too.

I am moving into 12x24, which will be my biggest shop ever. I was getting warmed up in this thread and the realized had an older front end on it, now I have read the whole thing.

My main concern with both y'alls plan is indoor air quality. There is dust collectors, and then there is dust collectors that are effective.

Here is a local thread you might find interesting: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?300881-Air-Quality-Monitor

In that thread I posted a picture of the particle counter I was using at the time. I have since upgraded one step up from that model to a current product from the same manufacturer, looks identical powered off, that also has a homeowner grade robust CO2 monitor in it. The particle counter only (Plantronics S50 series sensor) is still about $60 on the big river, the upgrade with the CO2 monitor is about $75.

No matter how much you spend on your dust collector, I think it is prudent to measure your actual air quality when you think the air is clean.

Humping a lunchbox planer up and down basement steps is going to get old very very fast.

My new 12x24 shop is grade level, and it is really tight. Right next to the over head door is going to be my 6" jointer that can roll right out onto the driveway pad. Adjacent indoor storage for my lunchbox, and adjacent my RAS on a pretty nice cart. Next to that will be (it fits on the scale model of paper cutouts) will be my homebuilt filter array for particles under 50 microns. All of the RAS, planer and jointer are strictly outdoor tools at my new place.

My setup has two short comings, I cannot resaw anything much bigger than a 2x2 with my 9" bandsaw, and I do not have room for effective dust collection. However, I do have room for all the homeowner tools I will ever use, and a fairly well equipped hand tool set for jointed furniture.

I am going to be probably pretty happy in my new space. However, if my next shop is a two car garage, perhaps 24x24, I would likely continue to use the RAS, planer and jointer outdoors and use the new found space for lumber storage and to have room to build something bigger than a refrigerator, like a canoe or two.

I do not have a tablesaw. At my age, with my rotator cuffs, I am keeping the jointer and the planer and just hand planing the machine marks off my dimensioned stock. I think of them as my electric apprentices.

God bless you for taking on furniture in 12x18. There are going to be some days when you will know you have been working.