Question: How to Sharpen Combination Plane Irons

[Stew Denton]

I have had a Stanley 45 for years, but have never used the beading irons. Additionally after wanting a Stanley 55 for a few years one finally came along that looked pretty good for a price that wasn't outrageous, and it has now been in my garage a day or two. It was a happy day!

Alas, there is almost no room to use it though, so back to the saw horses and planks in the back yard.

Projects by Steven, Jim, and others have perked my interested in learning to use the beading irons with my 45 and simple molding irons in the 55.

When I got to thinking about that it suddenly dawned on me that I have never sharpened a plane iron with a profile, as I had never had a need to.

Thus the question, what advise do you have as to sharpening these profiled irons?

I do have oil stone slips, one or more that I have had for years from my dad, but have never needed to use one, but at least I have a start.

Are there good videos out there? Any advise will be much appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Stew

[steven c newman]

I just hone the backs. I tend to stay away from the profiles, too good a chance of altering one. The "quirks" on either side can be honed a bit, though. mainly I just hone the backs flat.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi Stew,

A post of mine on molding planes has a couple of posts with different profiled blades being sharpened:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?242156-Old-Molding-Planes-and-the-Rehab-Enthusiast

An excerpt from “The Woodworker: The Charles H. Hayward Years: Volume I” has great information about profiled blades, especially about the shaping of a beading blade.

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2017/02/16/how-to-sharpen-moulding-plane-cutters/

An important consideration when sharpening a beading blade for a combination plane is there has to be some part of the blade outside of the path of the skate all around or the skate will bind.

A difficult part of sharpening a small bead blade is learning to keep rotating the radius of the small edge of a slipstone inside the round edge. It takes a little practice.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

The most traditional approach is to get some slipstones, like maybe some medium India stones (for sharpening) and some translucent arks (for honing). I do a lot of my combo sharpening this way.

Another approach is slip waterstones. The only catch is that most of the ones on the market are Matsunaga/King stones, with not the greatest speed/dishing tradeoffs. Dishing is particularly unattractive when working curved irons, because instead of flattening you have to reshape. A lot of people don't use slip waterstones at all as a consequence.

The new way to do it is with lapping compunds or PSA abrasives on shaped wooden forms. This is probably the fastest way to go, and is mostly what I do when not using oilstone slips.

[steven c newman]

I stay away from the profiles....no need to mess with them...unless you hit a nail, or do something else like that. I just hone the "flats"
There is a fellow on Youtube, named Mitch Peacock, that has a whole range of videos on the 45. Might even have a few on the 55, as well....

Been working for what I do with the 45.....KISS seems to be the way.

[Graham Haydon]

Stew, Jim's link to the Hayward write up is pretty good and as Patrick said, in lieu of slipstones, abrasive on appropriately profiled pieces of wood will also work very well. To get a sharp edge you will need to work both bevel and the back, especially as multi plane profiles are more likely to tear.

[Stewie Simpson]

Stew, Jim's link to the Hayward write up is pretty good and as Patrick said, in lieu of slipstones, abrasive on appropriately profiled pieces of wood will also work very well. To get a sharp edge you will need to work both bevel and the back, especially as multi plane profiles are more likely to tear.

Dead right Graham.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/moulding%20planes/_DSC0214_zpshixd6rah.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/moulding%20planes/_DSC0214_zpshixd6rah.jpg.html)

[steven c newman]

373370
Ok...you see those two shiny spots? Those are the only parts of the profile I worry about. Flat has been flattened, those to "quirks" as well. have never tough the profile itself.....haven't found the need to. Won't, unless I happen to hit a hidden nail, or other bits of metal...and nick the profile. I did find out that using the depth stop helps when I get near the far end of the cut.

Like I said. I hone the back, and I hone the quirks....and that is it.

[Pete Taran]

While just honing the back may work for Steve, I've always honed both the bevel and the back. There is little reason not to do so. I mean it's not like you are worried about matching the blade to a wooden sole. Who cares if you alter slightly the perfect profile that Stanley put on the blade? It mates with no sole, and unless you use a square stone to attempt to hone a round iron, you are not going to alter the profile enough that anyone will see it or notice it.

I use the system that Patrick talks about. A small medium India slip with a radiused edge and a corresponding hard Arkansas stone. Has worked for me for years and I don't see any reason to change. One thing is for sure, multiplane blades work best when they are very sharp, and it's impossible to get them very sharp if the other side of the cutting edge has a rough grind like they came from the factory with. It's really not that hard, just try it and see.

[Elmer Nahum]

For the curved portions of the cutters, I like to use a 600 grit diamond plated rod that has multiple diameters. The larger diameter rods also have flat sections:
CRKT Veff Sharp 600 Diamond Grit Stepped Sharpener.

Follow this up with the finer Spyderco ceramic slip stones. There is a 4 rod set available.

Finally, leather strop using either the v-shaped wheel on a Tormek or a v-shaped leather strop attached to your drill press (Flexcut Deluxe Leather Powerstrop FLEXPWS20).

Any flat sections can be done with your favorite method.

[Tom M King]

This film from Lee Valley has a pretty tough backing. http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?p=74729&cat=1,43072 Wrapped around the shank of a numbered drill bit fits a lot of small shapes. I have even used it on the cutting edge of a dull chisel. You have to look around and see what you can come up with a lot of times. I use the diamond lapping film for sharpening some things, but the backing is too fragile for this use.

That aluminum oxide film is handy for a lot of things-from polishing hydraulic cylinder rams, to combination plane irons.

Fortunately, once fine tuned, if you don't let it get really dull, hitting the back will only will get a lot of work out of it.

[Chet R Parks]

Tom,
I found this an interesting way to sharpen combination plane irons, thanks for posting. Could you elaborate on how you attach the film around the drill bit? Is it wrapped around in a spiral fashion or just a thin strip wrapped around the length of the drill bit?? Also do you use water or oil as LV suggest? It seems to me that using oil would cause the adhesive to come loose. I'm just trying to figure out how your system works in my mind. Thanks for any help.
Chet

[Bill Houghton]

For what it's worth, "Planecraft," one of my essential references for the use of planes, recommends various suitable shapes of slips, such as those used for carving tools. Lacking a full complement of such slips, hardwood whittled to shape with an abrasive film should do the job.

[Jim Koepke]

It seems to me that using oil would cause the adhesive to come loose.

Wouldn't the oil would have to penetrate the film for that to occur?

jtk

[steven c newman]

Have had no problems with what system I use on mine......YMMV....

[Chet R Parks]

Jim, your probably right which is why I asked Tom how he wrapped the film around the drill bit/stick so it won't seep around the edges of the film, if he uses oil. He may just water of maybe nothing??? The oil/water is a recommendation of LV that some may chose or not choose to use.
Chet

[Tom M King]

No specific way to wrap it. Most of the time just a small piece wrapped over the shank once. I just use it dry, and replace it as needed. Steel in old plane irons is pretty soft, so it cuts easily. The numbered drill bit case has a step every few thousandths, so one will be close enough almost always for small rounded shapes. I have always tried to stay away from old molding planes with any rust, or pitted irons.

I use Record combination plane irons (came with the almost useless (sorry depth stop design) 044C that I bought new back when they were on the market) in the 55's, but some of the old Stanley irons get the call when needed, like the little Grecian Ogee with Bead. For simpler shapes, the Record irons almost always have it covered.

[Chet R Parks]

Tom,
Thanks for the additional input. Somehow I didn't think you used water/oil. I probably won't either, it just seems messier. I will definitely try this system as soon as I receive the sheets you use from LV. I have the diamond film sheets but they tear pretty easily. Thanks again.
Chet

[steven c newman]

Missedf half my post, as usual......Look at the photo again......on the bead bit (#13) it was honed on the back, AND on the flats on each side of the profile. Profile was fine, did not need bothered with. Who cares....I DO, for one. Prefer a nice rounded bead..to some sloppy looking, half-way close to round .."thing"......iF that is what YOU want, by all means, after all, it is you that will have to look at those results.

I use a simple, easy to do system.....others may want to over-think, over-complicate.....meh. I want something that WORKS fast, and have a cutter ready to go WHEN I need it. Sometimes, when I pull the cutter out of the box, needs a quick hone, and away we go.....takes longer to set the plane up, than to hone the cutter.

The two skates, for those not used to one of these planes ( like Pete is) provide the support for the cutters, regardless of the shape. The cutters are bedded on the skates, just like a "normal" plane's frog. Skates ARE the "sole" of these planes.

Straight cutters...they will get a hone on the bevel. But, that is just the way they are.

Yep, I go with what works for my shop...YMMV....the OP DID ask what I used.....K.I.S.S.

[Patrick Chase]

I use the diamond lapping film for sharpening some things, but the backing is too fragile for this use.

Both varieties of AlOx film that LV sells have diamond counterparts on exactly the same polyester backing. The coarse-grained mostly transparent AlOx film is 3M 268L, while the equivalent diamond film is 3M 675L (which LV doesn't sell, but it's easy enough to find). Both are branded as "Microfinishing Film" by 3M.

The colored AlOx film is 3M 265X, while the diamond equivalent is 3M 668X (what LV sells). They're branded as "Lapping Film". 668X is available in coarser grits than LV sells BTW.

Of course the diamond films need to see a lot more uses per patch of film to be economical, so even with the same backing/durability as the AlOx I shy away from using them on curved tools as a consequence.

[steven c newman]

Funny part is.....I have to use a magnet to remove a cutter from the holders.......otherwise I get these little cuts in my finger tips......So, I use a magnetic pick-up tool to raise the cutter up far enough to grab somewhere besides them sharp edges....kind of slows things down, while I look for the magnet.... Putting a cutter back in the holder is almost as dangerous to my fingertips...

[Jim Koepke]

....kind of slows things down, while I look for the magnet....

One way around this is to have magnets all around the shop.

My dexterity must be pretty good. It isn't often a blade catches me. Most of my cuts are from an erroneous grabbing of a blade or when using a rabbet plane after not having used one for a while.

Though pulling a blade out of the original boxes can be tricky. If it is one of the boxes with two or more rows of cutters then a pair of long nosed pliers helps to get a blade out without blood.

jtk

[Chet R Parks]

Jim,
I agree about grabbing the rabbet plane the wrong way especially the skewed rabbet.

[steven c newman]

Kind of crowded...
373611
Per the original box..Type 20, Roxton Pond Que. Canada...

[Jim Koepke]

As the original question was how to sharpen beading blades what follows is how one of mine was sharpened this afternoon.

Currently it is cold in my shop so oilstones are used. In warmer times my sharpening of profiled blades also used a bunch of water slipstones. Before my having slipstones abrasive sheets were wrapped around things that were about the proper size. One may have to improvise.

When the subject is sharpening there are many viewpoints. When it comes to sharpening blades with a profile there is no reason to believe it would be any less opinionated of a discussion.

The easiest method is to hone only the backside of profiled blades. One problem with this is it can leave a burr on the bevel and be a cause of rough looking work.

Some profiled blades have flat quirks which may need to be honed. Another problem with many profiled plane blades is careless sharpening. If a previous owner has distorted the shape of the blade, it needs to be brought back to match its original shape. In the case of a beading blade if it is wider at the top than at the bottom it will not work well.

With a combination plane such as a Stanley #45 the only curved profiles one has to worry about in the standard blade set are beads or sash cutting blades.

These blades can produce clean results or at least satisfactory results with a less than optimally sharpened blade, just like any other plane. Working with a well sharpened blade can make a world of difference, just like any other plane.

It is amazing how common it is to purchase a used combination plane and find only a few of the blades were ever sharpened.

One thing that seems common with many of my blades is the factory grind was a bit rough:

373638

This is a 1/8” blade, one of many blades, that haven’t been sharpened among my blades for a #45. It has typical coarse grinding on the back. The front of the bevel isn’t much better:

373637

The blade shown here is a 3/8” beading blade. The grinding marks, especially on the bevel, can make for a rough bead.

The back does need to be prepared or flattened:

373636

This and a slipstone used below are fast cutting stones. My knowledge of what they are is zilch. They do a better job than my crystolon stone.

The sides also need to be honed for smooth performance:

373635

The edges of a beading blade need to be slightly outside of the skates. Likewise the inside edges of a beading blade need to be slightly inside of the skate. There needs to be a bit of relief on the area behind the leading edge to prevent binding in the cut. Some molding planes also need attention to the sides to work well.

Honing the profile can be tricky. With the factory grind one may need to remove the grinder marks from the bevel’s surface. It looks like the folks at Stanley were using something like 60 or 80 grit sanding wheels to dress their blades before packing them in to a box.

Here the profile bevel is being honed with a translucent Arkansas stone:

373634

Sometimes the stone is in motion, sometimes it is the blade. The coarse slipstone used at the start of this operation is at the bottom left in this picture.

The bevel has to also have a relief angle built in. In effect it is wider at the trailing part of the profile than at edge meeting the work. If this was smaller, the work would come to a halt. If it was the same size there would be binding.

The blade being worked here is a #25 - 3/8” bead blade. The large round edge of the slipstone is just a bit smaller than the bead. The slipstone can be worked at an angle to bring more of its rounded surface in to contact with the surface being worked. In geometric terms the profile of the blade is actually an ellipse. When it is tilted at 45º in the plane it cuts a circular bead. The slipstone or other devices used to work the bevel should be moved around on the profile bevel to equalize the amount of metal being removed. One also needs to be careful to not remove much metal from the sides of the profile. There needs to be enough material on a combination plane to be all around the outside of the skates.

The result is what counts no matter how the blade is sharpened:

373633

This worked quite well. A little wax on the skates and the fence made for smooth work. One technique with cutting beads is to cut them a bit below the surface. This allows a final smoothing of the surface if needed.

Also note the shavings. They are wide cut from the area of the bead profile. With a rough edge from the factory grind they would more likely be thin ribbons.

The blade boxes for one set of blades resides on the shelf with my hollow and round planes. To tell one box from the other the ends are marked with a line for the plow blades and a line with a dip for the profile and match blades.

373632

Another method some folks use for sharpening beading blade is to use a chainsaw file. These are a bit faster cutting than an Arkansas stone so be careful.

There are many ways to tackle sharpening. If it works, it is probably good.

Hope this helps.

jtk